xxoo Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 My biggest problem is that I can't understand why a short guy is seen as unattractive as an overweight woman. They aren't. You have decided that your height is the issue. It isn't. What makes you different from the successful short men? Figure that out, and you can be successful, too. 1
ThaWholigan Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 They aren't. You have decided that your height is the issue. It isn't. What makes you different from the successful short men? Figure that out, and you can be successful, too. He knows what the difference is....... 1
SteveC80 Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 No. Its not that you have no game. Its that women most likely dont find you physically attractive. If women find you physically attractive, "game" is moot. Trust me. The reason people tell you to go after women you deem conventionally unattractive, is that most of us have surmised that women find you unattractive. I agree as long as youre not a total social retard if a women find you physically attractive thats usually enough to get the ball rolling and shell find whatever u say funny or charming as long as youre not a total ass Women arent any different then Men,if they like what they see physically theyll give that person a shot Women are highly visual contrary to popular belief 1
zengirl Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 SD, What is the absolute MOST women you've hit on in 1 year --- directly asked out or approached and heard "No" from. And I'm talking the "busiest" year. That would be some helpful data.
kaylan Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 They aren't. You have decided that your height is the issue. It isn't. What makes you different from the successful short men? Figure that out, and you can be successful, too. Yeah bro. its not just your height. Lemme tell you this. A friend of mine from college, shes very cute and has a nice slim body. Shes bi and has a decent amount of male and female admirers on campus. So she had some options around her. I remember when she had a crush on this guy who was maybe 5'6. He had a smaller frame too...but he was good looking, had style, and crap load of charisma. All in all he had hella swag. She was always adamant that hed never go for her because she felt he was out of her league. The dude made her super nervous. And I remember we'd go to sorority parties and hed always have a girl with him. So like I said, its not only your height. Youre not so short that you cant attract women dude. Height can help guys out, but unless you are like 5'5 and under, I think you can find enough short women who are into you if you have other things going for you. 1
Leigh 87 Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 If you work out and are fit and healthy, you would not be considered overweight. You would be considered a healthy weight person with a larger than average frame. Let me also point out that some overweight people use the big bone thing as an excuse when its really their lifestyle that keeps them big. Some people who claim to be big boned actually arent. I guess I am inferring to women who have slow metabolisms and have to work out like crazy and eat like a burn JUST to look normal; not fit, they actually have to try extra hard JUST to look " normal". Not slim. Not fit looking. NORMAL. Your right - large boned people with normal metabolisms who eat normally, I am big boned/ average framed and I do not let myself get over 130 because I like to be fit and slim for my build. 125 is ideal for me, since I am very curvy ( large boobs and bubble butt). What I meant, is that a large boned women WITh a slow metabolism, can look chubby, EVEN if they arer active and healthy. Haha - I was chubby growing up, and used having big bones as an excuse. Now, I realize I can look thin if I eat well and work out.
SteveC80 Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Telling the op to lower his standards at the same time saying its not fair to the women if he hits on women hes not attracted to is contradictory If the op can only get women hes not that attracted to well then hell either have to do that or be alone Most unattractive guys realize they have to go after women who they arent that physically into becasue its all they can get. Just like some women realize beggars cant be choosers and if the good looking guys arent approaching they may need to settle for an unattratcive guy who actually approaches them or be alone It's the harsh realities of dating people dont want to talk about or acknowledge Edited March 29, 2012 by SteveC80 1
Imajerk17 Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 This is an awful lot of writing on this thread. Seems to me that everyone is saying the same stuff to somedude but he still hasn't taken any real action. What's the definition of insanity again? Winners actually take action to improve their situation, losers just sit on their butts and write threads like these. 1
Mme. Chaucer Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 My biggest problem is that I can't understand why a short guy is seen as unattractive as an overweight woman. "Overweight women" are not universally unattractive. 1
Leigh 87 Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 SOMEdude - ( I like your user name lol) - um, well sure, if your a quality guy, you can get away with a flaw, and still get girls. Plenty of short men get girls, as you know. YOur lacking in other key areas, and need help to cultivate them From the sounds of you, you have potential to be pretty cool:) YOu have a sense of humour, and sound intelligent enough to hold your own in a conversation. With obese or overweight women; cute, average, or attractive girls have optoins if they have great personalities, and are cute enough in the face, even without a great body. If your personality, and overall packaging ( looks, sense of humour, your kindess, are you fit and healthy, do you talk about interesting things that cater to a varity or large group of people) ... BAsically, you have to COMPETE in a system. In society, in dating, obese or overweight girls are generally left over much more often than attractive girls in great shape, because there are cute and average girls with great personalities; so guys go for them, over overweight and unnatractive girls. it may very well be, that unless you improve yourself, you wil only be left with overweight and lesser quality girls, who are not picked by men as often as their sexy sisters. I would not settle for overweight women who are unhealthy... but I would consider an overweight women if they were fit and active, but simply had bad genes. IN any case, either: improve yourself: or, be stuck with the women left over from the dating pool, who are more overweight, and lacking in things, more so than women men snap up.
AD1980 Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 . "Overweight women" are not universally unattractive. A better comparison would be small breasts
Author somedude81 Posted March 29, 2012 Author Posted March 29, 2012 SD, What is the absolute MOST women you've hit on in 1 year --- directly asked out or approached and heard "No" from. And I'm talking the "busiest" year. That would be some helpful data. Wow, I don't use my computer for a few hours and too many posts come in. I'll answer the easiest one for now. Last year I was rejected by seven girls (including D) that I liked and talked to on a semi-regular basis.
USMCHokie Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 A better comparison would be small breasts I heart small breasts.
setsenia Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Although my dad claims otherwise, he's greying, getting a bit of a pot belly and starting to look his age. Yet, he analyzes everyone elses body when he looks far from perfect. He wants his women 115lbs and under when he is 200lbs. I think he is trying to lose weight, but it's difficult. I think that if you have a lot of imperfections yourself, you cannot expect models to flock to you. If you want someone who works hard to look great, you should also be working hard to look great.
Meeks7 Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 I remember that, and I still think he would've been better off having taken you up on the offer. For the record, the offer for SD81 to meet with my girl friend's professional friend FOR FREE is still on the table. Notice though how he hasn't responded. Because he doesn't want to, even though he wrote "What I absolutely need is someone to talk to in real life." It's pretty obvious he's abusing LoveShack and using it to his own detriment. He likes the attention AND the anonymity that comes with it. He isn't held accountable by anyone in real life. I bet $5 he won't respond to this post. SD, can you list some good reasons why you refuse to meet up with my professional friend? I'm curious. Are you just all talk and no action? What's up here, man? 1
Meeks7 Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 He doesn't want more therapy, he wants a woman. How hard is that to understand? It's not hard to understand at all. Unfortunately, what you are suggesting is not the answer. Could be a band-aid, but the core issues are being skirted here. It's not like SD is a virgin. I recall him sharing that he isn't. By professional I'm definitely not talking sexual! (whoa... I don't run that kind of service...) It'd allow him to just share, vent, verbalize his thoughts and feelings out loud to someone who is trained to help hurting people heal. It would be a face-to-face encounter which I think he could benefit from, as opposed to hiding behind a computer screen. It might not help. It might. Bottom line is, it would be something DIFFERENT for him, that might possibly get the balling rolling toward self-improvement, which would then increase his confidence, which would then increase his odds of dating successfully.
zengirl Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 If you're talking about another damn therapist, then well, that just shows the football field length distance between the male and female mentality. Talking about it doesn't get a guy laid, getting laid gets a guy laid. What's a therapist going to do about that? Somedude hasn't been in the war, or molested by uncle Bob on the 4th of July every year of his teens, or had a limb amputated, he's just struggling in finding someone to date, or atleast sleep with. If you're going to get him laid for free, then bless you Saint Meeks. He doesn't want more therapy, he wants a woman. How hard is that to understand? Therapy for this is making a mountain out of a molehill. In the thread he's referencing, Meeks gave the offer in responding to SD saying he wanted to talk to someone IRL about his problems, and I believe it would be a one-session type thing with someone who specialized in R problems (I don't recall the details). It was a direct offer to fit what SD requested. I'm not sure "talking it out" always helps, but SD has real-life NO social system whatsoever. I also think Meeks IS male, and thought he was helping, so I'm not sure why it's male v. female mentality. I said in another thread recently "Talk therapy" is usually ineffective at solving many problems. What it is effective for is when people feel like they have no one (IRL -- a message board just isn't the same) they can talk to about something without judgement. That most commonly arises in addict situations, which is why most addict communities include talk therapy (usually group) in their rehabilitation. Most of us don't need "talk therapy" because we have a circle of friends and family to relate to our daily struggles who support us. Of course, I'm not sure if Meeks's friend does that in particular -- it's clear she's not a prostitute from the thread -- but SD did say in that thread that he needed someone IRL to talk to. The universe, through Meeks, provided just what he'd asked for, but he decided he didn't want it. It's when things like that happen that I wonder why SD thinks the universe is against him. He takes no action at all even when he gets what he just asked for!
Author somedude81 Posted March 29, 2012 Author Posted March 29, 2012 Sometimes the trolls are right. Having regular sex with a GF or a FWB is going to do me a hell of a lot more good than talking to another therapist. I've already done the threapy thing, several times, I haven't tried the sex thing yet. Getting laid once every three years doesn't count. When I said I need somebody IRL to talk to, I wasn't thinking of a therapist but a friend. Somebody I share trust with and we both can talk about our problems and joys. And even then what I really want to accomplish is make me date ready. There are so many things I don't understand about flirting, vibeing being bold etc and therapists don't cover that at all. I want somebody to help me learn how to fish, not teach me how to cope with being hungry. 1
joystickd Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 And even then what I really want to accomplish is make me date ready. There are so many things I don't understand about flirting, vibeing being bold etc and therapists don't cover that at all. I want somebody to help me learn how to fish, not teach me how to cope with being hungry. You are going to have to get out here and do it. Someone can only teach you so much, but then you will have to have the balls to get out here and do it. Experience is the best teacher.
udolipixie Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Having regular sex with a GF or a FWB is going to do me a hell of a lot more good than talking to another therapist. If you think regular sex with a GF or a FWB will do then why not pursue gals you're not attracted to. that's regular sex with a GF or a FWB. I think you meant having regular sex with a GF or a FWB that fits your standards. Does reciprocating attraction matter or are you into the whole she pretends you'reanother person, you pay her, or she's desperate and dislikes being alone so you're better than nothing? I want somebody to help me learn how to fish, not teach me how to cope with being hungry. Generally people want a partner they find attractive, interesting, fun to be around, who has a life they want to be a part of, and who they want to be a part of in their life. Work on being the best you in those areas and approach women.
zengirl Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 SD, As long as you think 'getting laid' is the answer to your problems, it's going to be 1,000,000x harder (close to impossible if not impossible) to get laid. That's almost a guarantee. When I said I need somebody IRL to talk to, I wasn't thinking of a therapist but a friend. Somebody I share trust with and we both can talk about our problems and joys. ftr, I think that'd be FAR better for you than a therapist as well. Go make some friends! I think this example Meeks gives is just one more way of you retreating inward, though. You talk to us, but we're just people on the internet. You need to have friends IRL to be a healthy, happy person. You just do. And even then what I really want to accomplish is make me date ready. There are so many things I don't understand about flirting, vibeing being bold etc and therapists don't cover that at all. No, therapists don't cover those things in many cases. CBT often DOES help people learn better social skills, in general, which would enhance those things and focus on goals, though the goals need to be internal (i.e. I will feel more comfortable approaching women is a reasonable goal but I will get laid is not one a CBT therapist would work with). I'm not sure CBT is really "necessary" for a problem like yours, but some social coaching couldn't hurt, especially if you suffer from any kind of anxiety or depression that centers around dating or other social activities. I want somebody to help me learn how to fish, not teach me how to cope with being hungry. In reality, you need both. And "teaching you how to fish" simply doesn't look like you think it does. No one has magical answers. I assume you've read some PUA and gotten such tips here -- a lot of that is bunk, some of it works for some guys, but no philosophy or technique just "works." Many of the suggestions you've gotten -- approach more girls, make friends, improve yourself (inside and out), stave off depression and anxiety, find some empathy, etc -- are ways to learn how to fish. Unlike fishing, there's no step by step how-to to socializing with people or dating. There are LOADS of good tips and such and I think people have given you those (specific and broad) but you are unwilling to employ most of them and -- I think this is the biggest thing -- unwilling to realize that, with these particular girls you fixated on, there is NO PROCESS that would've gotten you success. Note: That doesn't mean you can never have dating success at all or that you only can with overweight women.
joystickd Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Damn Somedude you are going to have to end the pity party and just get off your a$$ and really do something about it.
Black Jack Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Nothing is wrong if men want to date a woman with a little more meat on her bones.
Author somedude81 Posted March 29, 2012 Author Posted March 29, 2012 You are going to have to get out here and do it. Someone can only teach you so much, but then you will have to have the balls to get out here and do it. Experience is the best teacher. Dude, I've been getting out and trying it by myself since the very beginning. I've had nobody help me. I've gotten as far as I have through sheer effort. Yes experience is a great teacher, but as I learned, there are millions of ways to screw up and all I'm left with is a little lesson to not do that again. For once I'd like to know something that might actually work. If you think regular sex with a GF or a FWB will do then why not pursue gals you're not attracted to. that's regular sex with a GF or a FWB. I think you meant having regular sex with a GF or a FWB that fits your standards. No sh*t. I need to get hard for her don't I? Generally people want a partner they find attractive, interesting, fun to be around, who has a life they want to be a part of, and who they want to be a part of in their life. I know that. But to actually become that seems impossible. Honestly, I really don't think my life is that bad and I have tons of ideas of what to do and go with a girl. I just need somebody (within my standards) to say yes. SD, As long as you think 'getting laid' is the answer to your problems, it's going to be 1,000,000x harder (close to impossible if not impossible) to get laid. That's almost a guarantee. Isn't it great that the universe works that way? Making the solution to the problem impossible to obtain. ftr, I think that'd be FAR better for you than a therapist as well. Go make some friends! I think this example Meeks gives is just one more way of you retreating inward, though. You talk to us, but we're just people on the internet. You need to have friends IRL to be a healthy, happy person. You just do. The friends issue is something. Generally I just don't trust most guys. And as I said a few times before, it's rare that I meet a guy that I actually want to be friends with. I've been at my university for three years and I've only met one guy that I wanted to hang out with and he had other things to do. Though I've also met about 20 girls I'd like to be friends with, so that tells something how my brain works. No, therapists don't cover those things in many cases. CBT often DOES help people learn better social skills, in general, which would enhance those things and focus on goals, though the goals need to be internal (i.e. I will feel more comfortable approaching women is a reasonable goal but I will get laid is not one a CBT therapist would work with). I'm not sure CBT is really "necessary" for a problem like yours, but some social coaching couldn't hurt, especially if you suffer from any kind of anxiety or depression that centers around dating or other social activities. My last therapist focused on CBT. The main goal seemed to be getting rid of negative thinking. He also had some real kick of trying to make me see that women don't have it as easy as I think, my posting history shows how effective that was What is social coaching? In reality, you need both. And "teaching you how to fish" simply doesn't look like you think it does. No one has magical answers. I assume you've read some PUA and gotten such tips here -- a lot of that is bunk, some of it works for some guys, but no philosophy or technique just "works." The problem with PU was that it just was reading a lot of theory and trying to find something that would apply to me. By teaching me how to fish, I mean watching how I communicate, giving me tips asking questions. Honestly, I think I need a personalized dating coach, but that is extremely expensive. Either that or a guy that is good with women who is willing and able to teach, or a cool woman who can do the same. Many of the suggestions you've gotten -- approach more girls, make friends, improve yourself (inside and out), stave off depression and anxiety, find some empathy, etc -- are ways to learn how to fish. They're too broad. I feel that I need specific things that I can do and work on. Unlike fishing, there's no step by step how-to to socializing with people or dating. There are LOADS of good tips and such and I think people have given you those (specific and broad) but you are unwilling to employ most of them and -- I think this is the biggest thing -- unwilling to realize that, with these particular girls you fixated on, there is NO PROCESS that would've gotten you success. Note: That doesn't mean you can never have dating success at all or that you only can with overweight women. There may not be a step-by-step guide but there are definitely things I can do that affect the process. As for the specific girls. I wish I would have taken more risks. Even withotu me trying anything, things ended badly with D. If I had tried to kiss her, I would have at least gotten a slap to end it. Going out with a bang would have been much preferred to what happened.
zengirl Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 SD, Social coaching can be done therapeutically in conjunction to CBT. It's fairly rare with adults, who generally don't need it (sorry) but it's something many children who go to CBT sessions require. It's not a formalized term, though -- just exactly what it sounds like, training someone (in their thoughts and behaviors) how to act socially. What your therapist started with sounds like a good foundation for that, because, yes, you have to have empathy for people -- in this case, women as a group -- before you can be socially successful. It may be that you and that therapist did not 'click' but, at any rate, if you're at all resistant to therapy, it will provide little value. You have to go in willing to do the work. As to the rest: It's hard to give specifics when you don't have the basic structure required to be successful. That may be why you find tips are too broad. You can't afford a personal dating coach and will probably never find someone who is going to "teach" you how to do that without a much wider social circle (even then, it's going to more be learning through observation, not asking someone to teach you). Forming that social circle is the best first-step I can suggest for you. Fixating too much on the end goal and seeing it as transactional is the biggest problem.
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