Why is it criminalized for a non-top man to not want an overweight woman?

[Els]

Right. I'm not saying these things to criticize SD. I'm saying them to help him view his own perspective (which, yes, is likely skewed from inexperience) as it appears to others and attempt to build better empathy, social skills, and a more productive attitude.

 

When I say the things he's done aren't "nice," I'm truly not intending to say he sounds like a horrible person. I don't think he does, really. Just that being a "nice guy" to me is not about passivity. SD is passive, and many people use the term "nice" to mean passive or unsuccessful which I find incorrect.

 

I definitely don't think that you post with the intent of criticizing him. You're honestly one of the most helpful posters I know, and I can identify with the feeling of 'wanting to save someone from themselves'. Sadly, I don't think there's much more we can do for him here. I, for one, am plain tuckered out.

 

You're on a roll Elswyth.

 

No. That's completely wrong.

 

It should be, "the root cause of everything he is saying (that seems to a lot of us like shooting himself in the foot), is inexperience."

 

See the difference?

 

 

ReallyHotGuy said something very similar to that a while ago. And now you said it as well. From my point of view, it does make sense.

 

Honestly, I feel like I have the same view and knowledge of relationships that teenagers do. Simply because I haven't been in one. It's like trying to guess where babies come from.

 

Exactly.

 

I need some kind of life experience to make me realize how things really are.

 

Smite me o' mighty smiter!

 

And in my mind, getting a GF would be that experience. Unfortunately, it's not something I can just wait for.

 

Rofl. Hey, you know, I'm not saying all this to totally excuse you of all responsibility, either. Life experience is something that you go out and get, generally. Not something that is handed to you. Not trying to convince you of anything, but did you know that if I had excluded LDRs from my list of possibilities, all of my relationships would either not have existed or had been terminated prematurely when one person had to leave? Just an example.

 

But yeah, seriously, chill with the 'requirements' bit a little, and just go with the flow when it comes to women. With some experience under your belt, I think you'll find that your 'requirements' will have altered drastically.

[veggirl]

Oh man, I would die of shock if SD actually asked out / flirted with a girl he is attracted to. I don't care, be attracted to what you want SD. I don't think you should "settle for fat girls" but I do think you should effing try with SOMEONE, ANYONE, PLEEEASE.

[xxoo]

I need some kind of life experience to make me realize how things really are.

 

Smite me o' mighty smiter!

 

And in my mind, getting a GF would be that experience. Unfortunately, it's not something I can just wait for.

 

You are HAVING a life experience. Your current reality IS your "smite".

[Dust]

Oh man, I would die of shock if SD actually asked out / flirted with a girl he is attracted to. I don't care, be attracted to what you want SD. I don't think you should "settle for fat girls" but I do think you should effing try with SOMEONE, ANYONE, PLEEEASE.

 

Well if he liked a girl he wouldn't think of her as fat or overweight. I mean maybe he would put his foot in his mouth and tell a girl he was crazy about "you could lose 30lbs but I still think you're very pretty the way you look now though"

 

I like the angle of this. Somedude its time you do what you havn't done in a very long tim. Its time you stop talking "why is it criminalized for a non-top man..." and you show the world what a non-top man can really do. It's time you prove its not criminalized to want what you want.

 

You need to try with multiple girls. That means asking girls out. Asking ones you find pretty. You come here and update us. WE WANT UPDATES. You fricken use that as motivation and you ASK A GIRL OUT. Just say the magic words of "Join me for dinner tonight I'd really enjoy your company" or some variation of an invitation. It will help if you flirt for a little before asking them out. The asking out is most important though. Flirting is just saying some silly fun stuff "Hi how are you doing!" is flirty.. you see simple... then ask them out remember just something like "I eat you tongith... I mean I want to eat with you tonight at thist great place I know." ... then of course like you've NEVER EVER EVER DONE... yes when you get that alone time with the girl some time during the date .. . before you say good bye you make a move and you kiss a girl!

 

Olright you know what to do. If you come back here with an UPDATE "I asked a girl to dinner after class" it doesn't matter what she says you won. You beat yourself, then the goal would be to just keep asking girls out living your life and enjoying.... getting out of this "it doesn't work!" mentality... you just keep trying till it does "work!"

 

Remember becoming a girls friend and never making a move other then saying "I like you" is not trying. Randomly msging girls on facebook or asking them for their number is not asking them out. Put a girl on spot make her give you a chance and then make some fricken moves. Just do it. DO IT! DOOOOOOOOOO ITTTTTTTTTT. Cause you'll miss your entire life if you're to scared to live it. None of this "I don't have an in that girl is busy" talk. YOU MAKE AN IN... Its called an ice breaker tell her your dick is on fire for all I care just talk to a girl you like and then ask her out. Then do it for a lot of girls.

 

DO NOT GET OBSESSED ABOUT ANY OF THESE GIRLS. You need to be stopping those kind of feelings for girls who you've had a distanced relationship. Once things start getting more seriouse those emotions would be more appropriate.

 

GO OUT THERE AND MAKE YOUR EXPERIENCE.

[somedude81]

Rofl. Hey, you know, I'm not saying all this to totally excuse you of all responsibility, either.

Just when I thought I earned my wings too

 

Life experience is something that you go out and get, generally. Not something that is handed to you.

From what I've seen, it's a bit of both. Every now and then fate throws people a bone. That's basically where the expression "getting lucky" comes from. And once that happens, they are able to figure things out for themselves. I haven't had that happen to me yet.

 

Not trying to convince you of anything, but did you know that if I had excluded LDRs from my list of possibilities, all of my relationships would either not have existed or had been terminated prematurely when one person had to leave? Just an example.

I'm thinking about making a thread on LDR's since the issue comes up a lot on this forum.

 

The way I see it, there are two types of LDR.

 

1) Ver and I would be one type. Two relative strangers who never met and somehow have to make a relationship work. Time spent together would be very infrequent. Also with each of us having an established home, one moving to the other is a difficult thought.

 

2) Through some Facebook stalking, I learned that D is going to be staying in Japan for a year starting this fall. If we had been in a serious relationship, there is a strong chance I would want a LDR and we would get back together once she gets home.

 

Both are LDR's, but very different from each other.

But yeah, seriously, chill with the 'requirements' bit a little, and just go with the flow when it comes to women. With some experience under your belt, I think you'll find that your 'requirements' will have altered drastically.

The requirements are based off of how I feel. And it's almost completely controlled by sex. I am not sexually attracted to overweight women and that very fact alone, means that I shouldn't bother.

Oh man, I would die of shock if SD actually asked out / flirted with a girl he is attracted to. I don't care, be attracted to what you want SD. I don't think you should "settle for fat girls" but I do think you should effing try with SOMEONE, ANYONE, PLEEEASE.

I've already flirted with, asked out and been rejected by a girl that I was into this year.

 

Yes I know I have to keep doing it.

You are HAVING a life experience. Your current reality IS your "smite".

What I meant is that I need an event to break up my current life experience.

[Meeks7]

He has the 3rd option of course, which is:

 

PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT!!!!

 

You know, that stuff people do when they try to improve their confidence, self esteem, their social life and overall change their mentality and outlook on the world. Improve their fitness, chase their goals, learn new skills, etc. World being his oyster and all that, and he could do it.

 

But.....

 

He says he can't. He thinks he can't. He BELIEVES he can't. And whenever we all tell him he can, he thinks we're picking on him and plays the victim -_-

 

+100

 

 

You do realize its in your power to create and gain experience? You go to school with many teenagers so why havn't you been asking all of them out?

 

Look I realize you want something but are overwhelmed to the point of inaction. You need to figure out what you need to do to bring yourself to action. Asking questions on here for almost 5 years has brought you no closer. You were 25 when you started posting here and you're 30 now and still in the same position.

 

So if you can just start asking out girls and making moves on them great! If there is a disconect in doing the thing that will get you experience then find a friend, a relative, a therapist... something that you can actualy do towards snapping yourself into action. Just asking questions here and making scape goats like blaming overweight woman doesn't do you any good. It's all just very petty and insulting. Good luck, do something today.

 

If it were me I would just go out and hit on girls. I know you can't bring yourself to do it... so maybe find a therapist or something.

 

+1,000!

 

When I first joined LoveShack I quickly noticed SD's long threads. I felt for the guy, because I have been in his shoes and also had a LOT of friends LIKE HIM back in my high school and early college days.

 

One day, while reading one of his massive threads, I realized he lives in SoCal. Well, I have a girl friend who has a couple friends in the business of helping hurting people heal who are living in SoCal. I offered SD the opportunity to meet up with one 1-on-1 sometime at a public coffee shop during the day.

 

First I asked him if he would skype with my girl friend.

He said no thanks, he did that before with another girl, but they stopped doing it. He also said "What I absolutely need is to talk to someone in real life about this."

 

So I offered him exactly what he asked for.

 

Know what he said?

 

"Sorry, but now is not the right time."

 

That's when I knew. He plays the victim. He's crippled by fear. He doesn't want to do the hard work to change. He's expecting a magic pill that will suddenly transform him with minimal or zero effort.

 

Life doesn't work that way.

 

I really feel bad for him. I feel like he doesn't know what he wants. One second he's asking for someone to talk to in real life. Then I offered him the chance. He turned it down, and since then, hasn't responded back to me about that. Sadly, like I said, I once was in his shoes (i.e. crippled by fear of change) and I've know guys like him all through HS/early college. What is sad is that he's gotten to a point where making excuses NOT to try or do something is natural. And that's kind of scary.

 

He's been here since age 25? And FIVE years later, he's still stuck in the same spot?

 

That really says a lot.

[ThaWholigan]

Just when I thought I earned my wings too

 

From what I've seen, it's a bit of both. Every now and then fate throws people a bone. That's basically where the expression "getting lucky" comes from. And once that happens, they are able to figure things out for themselves. I haven't had that happen to me yet.

 

I'm thinking about making a thread on LDR's since the issue comes up a lot on this forum.

 

The way I see it, there are two types of LDR.

 

1) Ver and I would be one type. Two relative strangers who never met and somehow have to make a relationship work. Time spent together would be very infrequent. Also with each of us having an established home, one moving to the other is a difficult thought.

 

2) Through some Facebook stalking, I learned that D is going to be staying in Japan for a year starting this fall. If we had been in a serious relationship, there is a strong chance I would want a LDR and we would get back together once she gets home.

 

Both are LDR's, but very different from each other.

The requirements are based off of how I feel. And it's almost completely controlled by sex. I am not sexually attracted to overweight women and that very fact alone, means that I shouldn't bother.

 

I've already flirted with, asked out and been rejected by a girl that I was into this year.

 

Yes I know I have to keep doing it.

 

What I meant is that I need an event to break up my current life experience.

You need an event to break up the cycle. What you don't realize is that YOU have to be responsible for making it happen.

[Els]

Just when I thought I earned my wings too

 

From what I've seen, it's a bit of both. Every now and then fate throws people a bone. That's basically where the expression "getting lucky" comes from. And once that happens, they are able to figure things out for themselves. I haven't had that happen to me yet.

 

I agree that fate comes into play, but you can't control that. What you CAN control is what you do about it.

 

I'm thinking about making a thread on LDR's since the issue comes up a lot on this forum.

 

The way I see it, there are two types of LDR.

 

1) Ver and I would be one type. Two relative strangers who never met and somehow have to make a relationship work. Time spent together would be very infrequent. Also with each of us having an established home, one moving to the other is a difficult thought.

 

2) Through some Facebook stalking, I learned that D is going to be staying in Japan for a year starting this fall. If we had been in a serious relationship, there is a strong chance I would want a LDR and we would get back together once she gets home.

 

Both are LDR's, but very different from each other.

 

Fair enough.

 

The requirements are based off of how I feel. And it's almost completely controlled by sex. I am not sexually attracted to overweight women and that very fact alone, means that I shouldn't bother.

 

I don't really mean overweight women. I mean, you were extrapolating to the fact that you don't want kids yet, and what's going to happen when you're both older, when you were talking about the non-possibility of dating a woman your age (which, FWIW, is not true, if you date a woman your age and she reaches the age when she cannot safely bear a child anymore, your sperm will be mostly out of commission too). And the whole A-cup breast surgery thing. And... well, we could go on, but the fact is that it's a bit early to be setting laundry lists of requirements (and spending all that time defending them). Time that would be better spent just getting to know more people and women. Because I guarantee you, things will change after your first LTR. They certainly did for me.

[zengirl]

Sadly, I don't think there's much more we can do for him here. I, for one, am plain tuckered out.

 

Possibly. It reminds me of this:

 

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.

--Douglas Adams

 

I don't think SD has to get a LTR or have any particular life experiences to change his mindset (I agree not having them is part of what shaped them) but rather that changing his mindset, as well as asking out more girls, stop playing the victim, stop seeing the world as transactional, and simply embarking on reasonable self-improvement would help him be a happier, healthier person who is more able to achieve that LTR.

 

Sure, most of us have our first LTRs before we figure anything out. That's because we have them when we're teenagers. I don't think not having one is an excuse for not finding other paths and ways to learn to 'catch up' with others in mindset, even if you cannot in experience. I've not had to do that with relationships, but I have in other ways.

 

Oh man, I would die of shock if SD actually asked out / flirted with a girl he is attracted to. I don't care, be attracted to what you want SD. I don't think you should "settle for fat girls" but I do think you should effing try with SOMEONE, ANYONE, PLEEEASE.

 

Yes. A lot of the entitlement goes back to what Dust says: SD not only wants an attractive woman who checks those boxes but he wants to get it without going through the work and rejection of finding such a person.

 

From what I've seen, it's a bit of both. Every now and then fate throws people a bone. That's basically where the expression "getting lucky" comes from. And once that happens, they are able to figure things out for themselves. I haven't had that happen to me yet.

 

I think luck exists, but I think most people make their own luck. Most people who get a "lucky break" (in anything) have also put a lot of work in, gotten rejected plenty, faced failure, and carried on.

 

I'm thinking about making a thread on LDR's since the issue comes up a lot on this forum.

 

The way I see it, there are two types of LDR.

 

1) Ver and I would be one type. Two relative strangers who never met and somehow have to make a relationship work. Time spent together would be very infrequent. Also with each of us having an established home, one moving to the other is a difficult thought.

 

2) Through some Facebook stalking, I learned that D is going to be staying in Japan for a year starting this fall. If we had been in a serious relationship, there is a strong chance I would want a LDR and we would get back together once she gets home.

 

I agree there are two types of LDRs and that may be a topic for another thread, but I'd say first and foremost: STOP FACEBOOK STALKING D or imagining scenarios where you were together. How is that remotely helping you?

 

At any rate, you create your own experiences and events, just as most of us do. If you're in a rut, YOU can change that. Really.

 

So I offered him exactly what he asked for.

 

Know what he said?

 

"Sorry, but now is not the right time."

 

That's when I knew. He plays the victim. He's crippled by fear. He doesn't want to do the hard work to change. He's expecting a magic pill that will suddenly transform him with minimal or zero effort.

 

Life doesn't work that way.

 

I remember that, and I still think he would've been better off having taken you up on the offer.

[Els]

 

I don't think SD has to get a LTR or have any particular life experiences to change his mindset (I agree not having them is part of what shaped them) but rather that changing his mindset, as well as asking out more girls, stop playing the victim, stop seeing the world as transactional, and simply embarking on reasonable self-improvement would help him be a happier, healthier person who is more able to achieve that LTR.

 

Sure, most of us have our first LTRs before we figure anything out. That's because we have them when we're teenagers. I don't think not having one is an excuse for not finding other paths and ways to learn to 'catch up' with others in mindset, even if you cannot in experience. I've not had to do that with relationships, but I have in other ways.

 

True. I guess it could be that we were maturing while in the LTR, and it wasn't the relationship itself that contributed solely to us getting better at relationships and figuring out what we want. Personally speaking though, I do think that if I had not had the relationships I did, I might not have realized that my initial criteria for them weren't terribly useful or good for me.

[zengirl]

True. I guess it could be that we were maturing while in the LTR, and it wasn't the relationship itself that contributed solely to us getting better at relationships and figuring out what we want. Personally speaking though, I do think that if I had not had the relationships I did, I might not have realized that my initial criteria for them weren't terribly useful or good for me.

 

Oh, sure, and I think SD will find out plenty about himself (as we all do) if he ever gets a LTR. I just don't think he will get one without changing something. I know he's waiting on luck, but luck rarely delivers to those who don't make their own. You can't even win the lottery without going to the store and getting a ticket and most people who win play fairly often, fwiw. (ETA: Not suggesting the lottery is a good use of one's energy since even though most people who win play fairly often, most people who play never ever win -- seriously. JIC it was confusing.)

[somedude81]

But I do buy tickets.

 

Just because I don't buy one everyday doesn't mean it doesn't count.

 

I flirt with girls, I ask out the ones I like, I spend time with them. And yes, I'm known for sticking too long with a bad horse.

 

Continuing the lottery metaphor. Consider that for me, each ticket costs $100. Sure it would be great to win the Jackpot, but it stings each time I don't.

[poodle]

It's all so simple. I don't think anybody truly cares about men who don't want an overweight woman. The fact that those men complain about not being able to find a partner is what's looked down upon.

 

Every requirement you have makes finding that special someone harder. The number of overweight people is only going to increase so at some point in the future men and women will either have to get over their issues with fat or accept being single.

 

It really helps if you let go of any needs and get to know people for who they are. I always thought that I'd never be able to accept an extremely skinny guy, but that didn't stop me from falling for one when he came into my life.

 

PS: the complaining part isn't aimed at you SomeDude. I'm not familiar with your post history.

[Els]

But I do buy tickets.

 

Just because I don't buy one everyday doesn't mean it doesn't count.

 

I flirt with girls, I ask out the ones I like, I spend time with them. And yes, I'm known for sticking too long with a bad horse.

 

Continuing the lottery metaphor. Consider that for me, each ticket costs $100. Sure it would be great to win the Jackpot, but it stings each time I don't.

 

That would be a good analogy, but unfortunately in your case the 'costs' are subjective. They are what you make them. Not that I think it would be the most brilliant idea in the world to go through 30 women a day, but it literally costs you nothing to just talk to people (both men and women) in general.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Back to the OP:

 

The way I see it, fat people should only be with fat people. The very fact that I'm not overweight, means that I shouldn't have to settle for a woman who is.

 

That is a valid position. I hope you extend this way of thinking to how women "should" select the men they'll be with, too. If fat people should only be with fat people, then very attractive people should ONLY be with other very attractive people, right? Girls who have lots of options for dating should ONLY be with guys who do, right? Or they'd be "settling"? Shy, awkward people should ONLY be with other shy, awkward people, and people with kind of funny shaped bodies (though not fat) should only be with others who have funny shapes. Right?

 

See, I don't care if you aren't attracted to overweight women. But then saying that "they" should only be with other fat people, and that you'd be "settling" if you were with one (when it's highly likely that she, herself, might be settling in many ways to be with YOU) puts you into dangerous territory, once again.

[ascendotum]

SD repeatedly says a variety of things. He talks a lot about women's looks. I'm willing to admit I don't know precisely what he wants, which is why it'd be helpful if he defined it better. Maybe he really does want an average girl, but with his stated requirements, I'm just not seeing that.

 

The things you listed...not having short hair, not being overweight (when he isn't), not being taller than him, not having lots more relationship experience than him, is hardly being greedy with requirements. Its all within the realm of 'average'. His preference for larger breasts is just that he has said a preference. I'm sure if a girl he found cute flirted with him and she had small breasts, that preference would take a back seat.

[zengirl]

But I do buy tickets.

 

Just because I don't buy one everyday doesn't mean it doesn't count.

 

I flirt with girls, I ask out the ones I like, I spend time with them. And yes, I'm known for sticking too long with a bad horse.

 

Continuing the lottery metaphor. Consider that for me, each ticket costs $100. Sure it would be great to win the Jackpot, but it stings each time I don't.

 

No, in this metaphor, the "lottery" is getting it with absolutely no or minimal work. Without improving yourself. Without facing rejection and failure. With just minimal work -- the buying of the ticket -- and luck. You want it to be that easy and think it is. In reality, most of the time, it is not. And even that easy -- the easiest it is -- is more work than I see you putting into dating.

 

The other "non-lottery" ways of getting a LTR are like the non-lottery ways of making money: they require a lot of work and risk, and they generally payoff better than waiting for your luck to turn.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

 

And then, why should a guy who is lacking in some areas, have to settle for an overweight girl that he may have no attraction to?

 

 

 

 

OK, let me guess:

 

 

Uhhhhhhhhh, because he is lacking ????

 

 

 

And of course we all know that you don't have to settle in that way...

 

your alternative is to go without.

[somedude81]

Addressing some of the older posts.

This. I don't care if guys don't want to date whomever they want. Honestly. Some standards kind of gross me out, in a personal way, and make me not want to be around that person (this is true of men and women), depending on how they are described. When people discuss your standards, it's not because you don't date overweight women. (FWIW, I never had any interest in overweight men.) It's because of the way you think about and articulate those standards, who you are and your complaints about your lack of success, and (primarily) your complaints that women are shallow about the way you look -- that's irony and hypocrisy for you!

I don't understand the hypocrisy.

(Btw, I *am* still curious to see what you consider overweight or average, etc, but you don't seem to ever want to posts pics or specifics, despite constantly describing what you want in a woman, physically.)

A while back this thread was made.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/physical-fitness-health-weight-management/317725-am-i-fat

 

I consider her to be average and a few pounds overweight. Assuming that she doesn't look completely different in profile, I would be completely fine dating somebody with her body.

Another example would be this.

Body Mass Index, Change in Body Silhouette, and Risk of Asthma in the E3N Cohort Study

3 is ideal. 4 and above is obese. Obviously there could be a whole chart between 3 and 4.

 

Cannot be done, as such things are not universal. I'd say people are already using their own rubrics, and they can see where they fall on such a scale by their own experiences.

I actually don't fall that far on my scale. Basically saying, that I'd date me.

I know many overweight women who have more dating success than you, FWIW.

That's because some men don't consider being fat a dealbreaker. Some guys are turned on by bigger girls. For just about every female body type, some men are into it. The same can't be said of women.

At the end of the day, if we're going to assess it, your dateworthiness is determined by the success you have.

I don't agree with that at all. Simply because their are some women, who I would consider very dateable, who haven't had any success.

I'm glad someone you listen to finally did -- I cannot remember how many times I said this.

I think it was the way he said it that made sense to me. Also, I was already coming to that conclusion myself so it was something I was able to comprehend.

THIS is why you will not find a non-shallow woman, however. As one of her standards would probably be a man who does not weight physical attributes very high!

And that leads to the old argument that women I interact with IRL would know that I place a high value on looks.

Yes, it seems ironic. I am constantly surprised SD can't see the irony in this. FWIW, I think no one should be forced or coerced to date someone who they do not find attractive or who does not meet their desired criteria. Though that may mean they find dating very difficult or remain single.

My biggest problem is that I can't understand why a short guy is seen as unattractive as an overweight woman. And I'm only 3-4 inches shorter than average. I still have the body and face of a man. I'm not deformed by too much or too little fat.

I have found that many men aim a little too high. Especially on dating sites. They will go and email the hottest model girls they see and I'm not sure why on earth they think these model girls would even look at them twice?

 

You really need to stick to your own level of attractiveness. For example...I'm attractive, but I'm not going after hot model guys because they are obviously way too hot.

 

I guess the good news for you guys is I have found that most girls do NOT want a guy that is hotter than them, so we will usually go for someone that is less attractive. Don't know why that is, but it happens a lot.

I haven't gone after girls much more attractive than me since High School.

 

The most recent girl that I went after would probably be what I would look like if I was a woman.

I would say his standards are imposibly high in unatural ways. He has a very high standard of how much a girl should like him. I mean I'm not talking about wanting to be in a loving relationship. I'm talking about him wanting some attractive stranger with big breasts and a narrow waist to seduce him. He doesn't even want to work for it. He just wants to be seduced and chased. It hurts his ego to put himself on the line for rejection. He wants to sit back and nit pick and reject.

 

If he changed his mind set he could get girls and he'd probably widen his net for what he found iresistably attractive.

Dust, are you sure that you are actually reading my posts?

 

Because that doesn't match anything I have ever said.

[zengirl]

I don't understand the hypocrisy.

 

This is the absolute simplest way I can spell it out. I will not try again (in this thread at least):

 

You complain women won't go out with you because of your looks (height, whatever), and that is shallow, but there are several physical features -- i.e. things related to a woman's looks -- that would cause you not to go out with a woman. It is the exact same thing. Pretending it is NOT the same thing is hypocrisy.

 

An even more direct hypocrisy with the height thing is you won't go out with a woman because of her height (if she were taller than you).

 

I consider her to be average and a few pounds overweight. Assuming that she doesn't look completely different in profile, I would be completely fine dating somebody with her body.

 

I don't think that poster is outside the reasonable range, assuming average is not the 50% mark itself but more the 30-70% range. I think she's reasonably attractive but you're not exactly aiming for Megan Fox there. The problem with it is your attitude about it. No one wants a guy to have the attitude that "Well, I'd be fine dating her but she's average and a few pounds overweight." However, let's go with, it is possible that you wouldn't think that if you had actual chemistry IRL with someone. Just understand that if you FEEL that attitude at the time, it's probably going to hinder you -- girls you're attracted to aren't the same as girls you'd settle for. Not by a long shot.

 

Another example would be this.

Body Mass Index, Change in Body Silhouette, and Risk of Asthma in the E3N Cohort Study

3 is ideal. 4 and above is obese. Obviously there could be a whole chart between 3 and 4.

 

Thanks for trying. I really don't get much from that chart. I would say 4,5 look pretty average to me. But I cannot picture real ladies from that chart. (That's not your fault -- it's just not something my brain is graphically translating.)

 

I actually don't fall that far on my scale. Basically saying, that I'd date me.

 

That's not what I meant by the rubric thing. I mean you can see where you fall on societies rubrics based on your level of success. Right now, exactly as you are (looks + personality + actions), you are flunking out of dating. The good news is you can change that by changing one or all of the above!

 

That's because some men don't consider being fat a dealbreaker. Some guys are turned on by bigger girls. For just about every female body type, some men are into it. The same can't be said of women.

 

That's untrue. I know women who'd date short guys, fat guys, whatever. Women don't all get together and exclude specific physical features anymore than men do (like with men, statistics may show many prefer certain features strongly, etc).

 

Really, it's because the sum total of their (looks + personality + actions) are doing better for them than yours are, not because it's so much easier for women. That's what you fail to get.

 

I don't agree with that at all. Simply because their are some women, who I would consider very dateable, who haven't had any success.

 

Yeah, but those people don't want to date you, so your opinion on their dateworthiness is immaterial.

 

So, well in addition to my (looks + personality + actions) there's also a need to divide that by the expectation they have in a partner. Or really, I think the equation is more like:

 

Women: L(P+A)

--------

Expectations

 

Men: A(P+L)

--------

Expectations

 

In that women are rated a bit more on their looks, in general, and men are rated a bit more on their action or inaction on the dating seen, so they have multipliers of those factors. This assumes, of course, no one has an absolute 0 in any category, including expectations, which would just F up my equation entirely.

 

But most of this is crap. I'm just trying to illustrate the basic idea that all these things matter, and the only real assessment we have, at the end of the day, of our "dateworthiness" is how many dates we get with people we want to date. The end.

 

My biggest problem is that I can't understand why a short guy is seen as unattractive as an overweight woman. And I'm only 3-4 inches shorter than average. I still have the body and face of a man. I'm not deformed by too much or too little fat.

 

Personally, I think the fact that you think fatter people are "deformed" is way more unattractive than your height. I also don't subscribe to the notion that 5'6'' is a dealbreaker -- hell, a few men on LS who are 5'6'' have said they get plenty of tail or are married successfully or whatnot when you've brought this up. Of course, plenty of fat people have happy dating lives too. No one is suggesting you need to date anyone you're not attracted to (or most aren't, and I'm not), but trying to equate these things is a huge part of your problem.

 

Several issues with this whole line of thinking include: (1) People are not solely or even primarily matched by their relative "objective" attractiveness in looks, (2) There is no such thing as an objective scale of attractiveness; at best you can get agreement on the extremes of the spectrum (very hot and very not), (3) Also, no one has equated being short with being fat. What we have equated is rejecting someone for physical features (shortness) as the same as rejecting someone for physical features (fatness).

 

I haven't gone after girls much more attractive than me since High School.

 

FTR, I'm not saying you shouldn't! Go after lots of girls -- anyone you find attractive -- and just accept their nos or yeses as they come.

 

The most recent girl that I went after would probably be what I would look like if I was a woman.

 

I don't even know what that means, except that you're likely putting WAY too much thought into leagues.

[kaylan]

 

Is an overweight woman really the equivalent of a no game guy?

 

No. Its not that you have no game. Its that women most likely dont find you physically attractive. If women find you physically attractive, "game" is moot. Trust me.

 

The reason people tell you to go after women you deem conventionally unattractive, is that most of us have surmised that women find you unattractive.

[Leigh 87]

THere are 3 types of overweight:

 

1 - women who have the capacity to be average/slim/fit if they eat normally, in moderation, and are active BUT are too lazy to ever exercise and they over eat regularly.

 

2 -women who are large boned and/or have a slower metabolism and will always appear " larger", because it i sjust their genetics; but who also WORK OUT and are FIT and HEALTHLY, and eat in moderation.

 

3 - the unlucky women on medications that make their otherwise slim or average body types very large. They can either still work out, or they can not bother, seeing as they will remain chubby no matter how fit they are.

 

 

 

Women 2, and the women in 3 who DO keep active, seam FINE to me: they look large or big, but theyr attitude and lifestyle is fit and active, they like being out doors and are not lazy couch potato's.

Such women as the ones I have outlined, seam FINE for SOMEDUDE to date, providing he is attracted to them, their face, and their personalities.

 

Women 1 and the women 3 who DO NOT exercise at all, are UNNATRACTIVE. WHO the heck would WANT to have sex or date a women, who;s MAIN interest was sitting on their @ss, and over eating, without ever having the desire to be active.

I think it is quiet disgusting, when a women does not exercise and they over eat. Even THIN and SKINNY WOMEN, who are like this, turn me RIGHT OFF.

 

I think even low quality guys should not have to have sex or date the type of overweight women, who are just disgustingly lazy, and over eat, who DO NOT wish to exercise or eat well, and PREFER to sit on the couch all day!!!!!

The low quality guy should instead, improve themselves so they can get an average or even below average girl, who is reasinably active and at lEAST enjoys walking outside a few days a week. It is just GROSS and UNHEALTHY to be a lazy couch potato, who eats too much!!

 

I would be friends with such a person who likes being a couch potato and overeats, but I would not want to have sex with them, because it is physically repulsive.

why shouild ANYONE have to have sex with a person, who is literally physically disgusting? Unhealthy circulation, no muscle tone, a body reeking of too much food...

[MrNate 2.0]

What's this...truth from Kaylan?!?! Did someone hack his account? Is he grumpy that his welfare check is late?

 

Whatever it is, I agree with him completely.

 

Lol...you mad?

[oaks]

And then, why should a guy who is lacking in some areas, have to settle for an overweight girl that he may have no attraction to?

 

This hypothetical guy clearly has options, but I assume none of them are the girl of his dreams. His options include the overweight girl, and being single. Whenever you have options you choose the best one. So, the answer to your question is that the guy who is lacking in some areas should settle for the overweight girl to whom he is not attracted if this is a better option than being single.

 

Take out the specifics of why the guy has few options or why the girl is unattractive to him that this really applies to all "settling". People settle because they don't want to be alone any more.

[kaylan]

THere are 3 types of overweight:

 

1 - women who have the capacity to be average/slim/fit if they eat normally, in moderation, and are active BUT are too lazy to ever exercise and they over eat regularly.

2 -women who are large boned and/or have a slower metabolism and will always appear " larger", because it i sjust their genetics; but who also WORK OUT and are FIT and HEALTHLY, and eat in moderation.

 

3 - the unlucky women on medications that make their otherwise slim or average body types very large. They can either still work out, or they can not bother, seeing as they will remain chubby no matter how fit they are.

 

If you work out and are fit and healthy, you would not be considered overweight. You would be considered a healthy weight person with a larger than average frame.

 

Let me also point out that some overweight people use the big bone thing as an excuse when its really their lifestyle that keeps them big. Some people who claim to be big boned actually arent.