Why is it criminalized for a non-top man to not want an overweight woman?

[AlexDP]

Except breast size, including the thread where he said he'd encourage an "otherwise perfect" girl to get breast implants if she had A cups.

 

Except hair length, where he's said he can't stand short hair.

 

Except girls who are taller than him (which at 5'6'' are quite a few).

 

Except girls with below average faces, whatever that means.

 

Except women over 30, despite the fact that he's 29. (This has somewhat to do with experience, but he also says it has to do with other factors.)

 

And a lot of his comments were what he'd "settle" for, not what he wants. No woman (or man, probably) really wants to be "settled" for, certainly not one who's attractive enough to find a more conventionally attractive man who thinks she's crazy-beautiful. *shrugs*

 

SD repeatedly says a variety of things. He talks a lot about women's looks. I'm willing to admit I don't know precisely what he wants, which is why it'd be helpful if he defined it better. Maybe he really does want an average girl, but with his stated requirements, I'm just not seeing that.

 

I don't want to date a woman with huge breasts (unlike SD).

I don't want to date a woman over 30.

I don't want to date a woman with a below average face.

I don't want to date a woman with short hair.

I don't want to date a woman who's taller than me.

I don't want to date a woman who smokes.

I don't want to date a woman who is overweight.

 

I have all these requirements (and a lot more to add to that), yet I see, at the very least, 10 girls a day I could date. Truth is, somedude just isn't trying. The requirements listed here aren't that hard at all TBH.

[jobaba]

I'll start off with this.

 

The first thing I get is that a non-overweight girl is considered unobtainable. Why is that?

 

And then, why should a guy who is lacking in some areas, have to settle for an overweight girl that he may have no attraction to?

 

Is an overweight woman really the equivalent of a no game guy?

 

The way I see it, fat people should only be with fat people. The very fact that I'm not overweight, means that I shouldn't have to settle for a woman who is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the assumption that slim, fit women don't want to date overweight men either.

 

So why is it wrong when men don't want to?

 

I suggest you take a break from this forum man.

 

Reading all of the requirements that women want in terms of good looks and success and height is just going to make you more bitter than you are.

 

Get some friends and hit the bars.

 

When I was your age (late 20s - early 30s) I went out like 3 nights a week.

[jobaba]

Agree with all of that, except I rarely go for someone less attractive than me. I'm just attracted to good-looking men. But I agree that I go for "normal good-looking men," not "model good-looking men."

 

I think lots of women do date less attractive, though, even if just by a hair.

 

This is going to be my last post for a little while, but I just had to get this one little jab in.

 

Sorry.

 

Why do they have to be 'less attractive' than you?

 

They're just people you're not attracted to. No need for heirarchy or levels.

Why can't it just be ... you are attracted to who you are attracted to and not attracted to what you are not?

 

That's it.

[verhrzn]

Like ThaWholigan said, I think some women on LS could be reading too much into what SD has been saying.

 

The only thing I see that he can be held accountable for is that he would suggest breast implants to a woman if she has small breasts. That's pushing it over an ethical boundary in my opinion.

 

However, in my opinion SD doesn't deserve some of the pounding he's been getting from female members on this forum. What you're forgetting is that he's a good guy at heart, what you're forgetting is that when push comes to shove he's too respectful to women, what you're forgetting is that he holds women in a too high regard. A guy like that generally doesn't have truly malevolent intentions.

 

Constantly judging women on their appearance and saying he'd "settle" for girls means he has too high a respect for them?? That seems like some extreme mirror logic to me. "Eh you're not fat and you have an average face, but I'd settle for you because I'm scared of rejection!" is not something a nice guy says. It is something a Nice Guy with entitlement issues says, though.

 

He takes a pounding because he's hypocritical (the women aren't allowed to have a preference for height, but he's allowed to have a preference for weight.)

 

He also takes a beating, at least from me personally, because he refuses to acknowledge the idea that women have it tough in the dating world, too. When I first came onto this board, I emphasized very strongly with him... until he dismissed my own struggles (which are somewhat similar to his) over and over again, just on virtue of me being a girl.

 

Judging women on their weight, having hypocritical attitudes, being insulting to women in similar situations, telling women he'd "settle" for them even though they don't meet his high standards... that is not the behavior of a guy who really respects women.

[Mme. Chaucer]

You don't "have" to settle for anyone and there's nothing "wrong" with you not wanting to date someone who's overweight. Thing is, if YOU CAN'T GET the type of woman you want, your options are:

 

1) stand your ground and be alone indefinitely or,

2) expand your dating criteria to include women you CAN date - which may or may not mean those who are a little overweight.

 

You may not like your options, but you have them.

 

That's the bottom line.

 

You like what you like and that's the way it is.

 

Also, in your case, sd, it comes off as difficult to swallow when you appear to stand in judgement of the appearance and qualities in women when you don't have qualities yourself that are comparable to those you seek. It's okay to seek them - it's your attitude and stance about it that make you seem kind of like a jerk sometimes.

 

Go ahead and adhere to your preferences. I am the same way. But the attitude of self righteous entitlement is not going to get you anywhere.

[mostlyclueless]

I think if you are not interested in overweight women, you should not compromise and you should not try to fake it. You don't want to end up in a relationship with someone you don't really find attractive, who will constantly wonder if you secretly wish she was thinner.

[serial muse]

He also takes a beating, at least from me personally, because he refuses to acknowledge the idea that women have it tough in the dating world, too. When I first came onto this board, I emphasized very strongly with him... until he dismissed my own struggles (which are somewhat similar to his) over and over again, just on virtue of me being a girl.

 

This, I think, is much of the reason somedude gets heat on here. It's one thing to be upset about oneself; it's another to negate the struggles of others.

 

I'm sure that it's an expression of anger at his sense of powerlessness - but turning that anger into starting threads or making replies that indicate a lack of sympathy, and sometimes even hostility, for women struggling with dating is not, as verhrzn says, the act of a nice guy. Doesn't mean he's not nice in many ways - I'm sure he is. But what can one expect? It isn't the sort of thing that makes women want to respond kindly, and there's no reason why it should.

 

I simply don't see any reason why people should be kind to someone who is actively dismissive of them, or continuously express empathy to someone who says flatly that he has no empathy for them.

 

Somedude would have more supporters here if he gave that attitude up. That goes for others as well. It should come as no surprise that anger begets anger.

[udolipixie]

Constantly judging women on their appearance and saying he'd "settle" for girls means he has too high a respect for them?? That seems like some extreme mirror logic to me. "Eh you're not fat and you have an average face, but I'd settle for you because I'm scared of rejection!" is not something a nice guy says. It is something a Nice Guy with entitlement issues says, though.

 

He takes a pounding because he's hypocritical (the women aren't allowed to have a preference for height, but he's allowed to have a preference for weight.)

 

He also takes a beating, at least from me personally, because he refuses to acknowledge the idea that women have it tough in the dating world, too. When I first came onto this board, I emphasized very strongly with him... until he dismissed my own struggles (which are somewhat similar to his) over and over again, just on virtue of me being a girl.

 

Judging women on their weight, having hypocritical attitudes, being insulting to women in similar situations, telling women he'd "settle" for them even though they don't meet his high standards... that is not the behavior of a guy who really respects women.

 

I think to many guys if a guy doesn't rape, beat, sexually harass women it means he's a good guy at heart, too respectful of women, and holds women in too high regard.

 

Rather than he's not a rapist, abuser, or sexually harasser.

 

There's plenty of people that aren't rapists, abusers, or sexual harassers who wouldn't be termed decent/nice/good/etc by many.

 

Seems many men think nice/decent/good if the guy doesn't do extremely negative behavior rather than he hasn't done those things and judge him on exhibiting nice/decent/good behavior. Perhaps it stems from seemingly common mindset of men being majority good & minority bad rather than both good & bad so judge by a case by case basis.

[AD1980]

 

 

 

 

Judging women on their weight, having hypocritical attitudes, being insulting to women in similar situations, telling women he'd "settle" for them even though they don't meet his high standards... that is not the behavior of a guy who really respects women.

 

Didn't you describe the guy you are thinking about having a fling with as just ok looking and specified hes not "hot"?

 

 

You and sd are very similliar in that you both pretend youd settle for almost anyone physically yet you both are more picky then you lead on

[AD1980]

I have found that many men aim a little too high. Especially on dating sites. They will go and email the hottest model girls they see and I'm not sure why on earth they think these model girls would even look at them twice?

 

You really need to stick to your own level of attractiveness. For example...I'm attractive, but I'm not going after hot model guys because they are obviously way too hot.

 

I guess the good news for you guys is I have found that most girls do NOT want a guy that is hotter than them, so we will usually go for someone that is less attractive. Don't know why that is, but it happens a lot.

 

Youve obviously never bene to too many online datign sites..Its mostly men so the women there are much more pickier then Men

[verhrzn]

Didn't you describe the guy you are thinking about having a fling with as just ok looking and specified hes not "hot"?

 

You and sd are very similliar in that you both pretend youd settle for almost anyone physically yet you both are more picky then you lead on

 

That was more to demonstrate to the male trolls that physical appearance isn't that important... that this guy isn't getting girls because he's some top-model-OMG-gorgeous. He's an average guy, with good confidence levels.

 

The difference is, IF the FWB guy had wanted to date, I wouldn't have seen it as settling. I would have seen it as," This individual who has good qualities and bad qualities is interested in me!" Looks have very, very little to do with my idea of settling/not settling. (Employment is actually a way bigger deal for me.)

 

In short order: I am not picky at all about appearance, I am picky about employment (must be employed and financially independent.) I don't think I've ever presented it as otherwise.

[zengirl]

Like ThaWholigan said, I think some women on LS could be reading too much into what SD has been saying.

 

I'm not "reading into" them. I'm reading them. I've also asked and given SD the opportunity to clarify, if he feels he's being deeply misunderstood (a position he's not really expressed on any of the threads where he "takes a pounding" as you put it or "gets shown a mirror of his own attitude in a critical way" as I'd put it).

 

The only thing I see that he can be held accountable for is that he would suggest breast implants to a woman if she has small breasts. That's pushing it over an ethical boundary in my opinion.

 

Well, yes, that one is a ridiculous thing to think or say. I don't honestly think wanting a woman (or man) with a particular look or figure is unreasonable but I do think expecting someone like that to date you, while criticizing people for not dating you because they dislike your look or features, is wrong and hypocritical.

 

SD posts many things that suggests he does not feel women have a right to their preferences (this is because he sees such preferences excluding him, and he doesn't like that), yet he feels he has the right to exclude others. I'd never suggest he didn't, actually, except for the assertions that women are somehow ridiculously "shallow" for caring about height or looks or whatever. SD has a myriad of "shallow" factors working against him (his height, his average looks -- I don't remember what he looks like; I saw a picture once and vaguely remember finding him neither attractive, nor ugly --, his lack of a career at 29, etc) and some characteristics I would say are less shallow working against him.

 

Well, most of us have some of each working for and against us. But if we want to fixate on particularly shallow criteria (i.e. the most important things to us in a mate are either looks, money/status, or both), then we're probably going to have to have some criteria along those lines OR some other major asset to bring such people to the table. That's just life. I'm not really criticizing it when I state things to SD (he can be as shallow as he likes, really) as much as I feel I'm stating a reality --- the women who are comfortable with shallow men expect the man to have some desirable but "shallow" qualities that it sounds like SD does not possess. Some he can perhaps change (he could theoretically make a lot of money; he could put in ages in the gym and get totally ripped, etc) down the road and some he never can (his height). But it's his responsibility to do those things if those are the women he seeks. Likewise, shallowness is likely to turn off less shallow women (those benefits -- height, money, etc -- are not turnoffs in and of themselves, but less shallow women will fixate on them less).

 

What you're forgetting is that he's a good guy at heart, what you're forgetting is that when push comes to shove he's too respectful to women, what you're forgetting is that he holds women in a too high regard. A guy like that generally doesn't have truly malevolent intentions.

 

Is he? I keep seeing him say he's a good guy at heart, but when he posts about his interactions with women, that's not what I see. No, he doesn't sound like a horrible creep, but he sounds like he has an entitlement complex, like he only values women he considers beautiful (I'm not saying just for dating but as people in general) or attractive or who might be for dating, and like he is angry at women for not dating him. To me, that does not seem like a good guy. I wouldn't call his intentions "malevolent" or say he's a horrible person for it but I wouldn't say he's as nice as most of the men I know. And I certainly don't think he holds women in particularly high regards; I think he holds very attractive women in a high regard for their looks to the degree where he is angry and afraid of them, perhaps (that's what the pedestal thing is really about) in that he puts particular women on pedestals, but that's not really a kind or nice thing to do. Nor is it productive.

 

I don't want to date a woman with huge breasts (unlike SD).

I don't want to date a woman over 30.

I don't want to date a woman with a below average face.

I don't want to date a woman with short hair.

I don't want to date a woman who's taller than me.

I don't want to date a woman who smokes.

I don't want to date a woman who is overweight.

 

I have all these requirements (and a lot more to add to that), yet I see, at the very least, 10 girls a day I could date. Truth is, somedude just isn't trying. The requirements listed here aren't that hard at all TBH.

 

I wasn't suggesting they were necessarily. And I've no trouble with people assessing another person's attractiveness and saying, "No, not for me," so long as they are fine with others feeling the same about them. I agree that having requirements is not bad -- I had a LOT of requirements, though they weren't primarily physical or other shallow things -- but I do think that constantly defending your requirement as somehow more valid than others is bizarre.

 

I think SD could easily improve his dating life with self-improvement and not have to necessarily date women he finds unattractive (though I really don't know what that is -- if he asks out every woman he finds attractive, he is certainly extremely picky because as Dust said above, he asks out a woman every 2 years).

 

I really can't speak for him. I do think that he has kind of woven his own web here on the forum. I'm not surprised that women think the way about SD like they do. If you repeatedly say certain things, then people will remember that about you and you'll have a hard time disproving the gravity of what you've been saying. That could kind of be the issue here I suspect.

 

SD could come out at any time and say the various things he's said were wrong. What he does say are things like (admittedly paraphrasing), "I've learned not to tell people I'd want an A cup girl to get breast implants because it offends them," which sound like he missed the point and basically says, "I've learned not to tell people things they don't want to hear" instead of recognizing how his POV may have seemed strange and offensive.

 

YOU have said you feel others are reading too much into SD's posts, but he's never tried to clarify or change any of these things he's said, so I have a hard time believing that. It could theoretically be possible, but he seems completely intent on repeating the same things so I cannot see why they're being "read into."

 

Honestly, ages ago, I thought he might just be a nice guy with low self-esteem, as I think some of the struggling men on here are. However, his own posts are what I've read that gave me the opinion I have now. I had no reason to want to change such an opinion --- it simply happened because he repeatedly said things that revealed aspects of his character.

[Els]

Sadly, what SD is going to take away from some of these well-written posts, is that he is being 'criminalized further' for his requirements. :/

[ThaWholigan]

Sadly, what SD is going to take away from some of these well-written posts, is that he is being 'criminalized further' for his requirements. :/

^^^^^

This. Somedude has a victim mentality. It's so jarring, and I hate to see it in people, especially men, but he sees himself as a victim of circumstance, not realising that he can actually take charge of his life and alter his path.

[somedude81]

Yep, this is why SD ^.

There aren't too many things that drop a woman down in the date worthiness scale (diff from potential life partner), beyond looks, and even then its more physique than facial that will drop her desirability (imo when living in country where >50% population is overweight, being in shape for a woman above a certain age actually raises her rankings)

It's really funny how to me how it's seen as an accomplishment when a woman doesn't let herself get fat. Yet it's humdrum when a man stays fit.

 

An slim women is above average, a slim man is average.

 

Things like being shy, a bit nerdy & awkward, boring or no hobbies, crappy dress style, not being ambitious or adventurous, not keeping fit & active, not having a fulfilling love live, not having good earning potential, not having an exciting social life, being shorter than avg, will drop a guy lower in the date worthiness scale, whereas it would harm a woman to much less extent. Women will judge you on these things (as well as your looks) whereas to you and many guys they couldn't really care less if the girl had these issues. They just want to be attracted to her.

Exactly.

 

Women have so many more things they look for in a man than a man does a woman. It's basically, women have all the requirements men do, plus a thousand more.

 

Look I can relate. When I was skinny when I was setup by female friends with a woman, it was generally with an overweight woman. For me it was WTF, I don't have many things on my check off list or dealbreaker list, but physical compatibility was no.1, but for them it was a case of, well you have been single over a year, she's been single over a year = match off.

Yeah that's really weird. They could have at least checked with you first. I higly doubt they'd try to set up a skinny friend with a fat guy.

I understand why that comment pissed you off, because of the assumption, not wanting an overweight girl = you want a hot girl, which is rubbish imo, but don’t take all the comments on LS here personally, just keep doing your best to make it different in your day to day life.

Good advice.

 

Right. So does the reverse logic work? All I need to do to get a top man is not be overweight? (Does anyone have George Clooney's number?)

Clooney is, forgive the expression, in the 1%. The other 99% are waiting.

 

The premise of this thread is entirely flawed. The reason you're not dating 'women you deserve' is because you're not putting yourself out there.

Good advice but not exactly what the thread is about. In this thread I'm not complaining that I can't date what I want.

While this advice seems to make sense if you are on the outside looking in, for those of us on the inside it gives the impression that we should go for women that we think are mediocre -- and that is not particularly motivating. Is mediocre attraction to and from our partner really the best we can hope for?

That's a great point.

 

A lot of women don't realize how difficult it is to be the pursuer. In order to keep up the effort of the hunt, I have to feel motivated by the target to keep going. No hunter is going to put in a ton of effort to catch something he could care less about. They want to feel that the prize was worth the work.

Star Gazer hit the nail on the HEAD with this one. Being overweight doesn't automatically make you a disgusting creature that no one should ever date just because they happen to be thin.

Of course not, but why should thin women be passed over to get to them? It's not a rare thing for me to see a thin woman.

 

Everyone has a type. But there is a big difference between someone who's, say, 10 to 15 pounds overweight and someone who's carrying an extra 50, an extra 100 or more. I would bet more men are attracted to slightly overweight women than they realize.

Slightly overweight women are fine. I'm mostly talking about women who's gut protrudes out further than her breasts and has rolls in her arms.

 

I do think people need to really evaluate if any person's physical feature is an automatic deal-breaker. I do think that opening up your horizons and dating someone you ordinarily wouldn't date because of their physical appearance, at least for a few dates, could be enough to change your mind. Usually, I think women are better at building physical attraction over time,

but I don't think it's something that men should rule out.

 

I really don't see a point in dating somebody who actually turns me off when I see them.

 

What do you mean "women are better at building physical attraction over time"?

The point being: obviously, Somedude, you do feel that you're above overweight women. I'm not going to say that's a good thing or a bad thing, because everyone has preferences and there's always some type of person we feel *above* in the dating spectrum. If the overweight women were physically active and generally ate well, would you reconsider dating her?

If that was the case, why would she be overweight?

(and think about putting SD on your ignore list)

I've already told her to.

 

She takes everything I say a little too personally.

You don't "have" to settle for anyone and there's nothing "wrong" with you not wanting to date someone who's overweight. Thing is, if YOU CAN'T GET the type of woman you want, your options are:

 

1) stand your ground and be alone indefinitely or,

2) expand your dating criteria to include women you CAN date - which may or may not mean those who are a little overweight.

 

You may not like your options, but you have them.

I'll go with secret option 3) Work on improving myself so I can get the woman I want. Eventually the effort should pay off.

Somedude,

 

I understand where you're coming from-- and like what a lot of people have mentioned I'd like to reiterate that all factors of what people find attractive and what are deal breakers vary drastically from person to person.

 

Personally, I fall into the overweight category and could lose a good 20lbs. However, it is really how you carry your weight. I have plenty of attention for how I look now and also receive many compliments on my personality. A woman can be overweight and wear the right clothes, have the right muscle structure, etc and carry it well. As some have said, men often like women with a little bit of meat-- it's really hard to judge how much someone really weighs.

That's why I don't really care about what the number or dress size is. Just a quick glance and I'll know if I consider her overweight or not. Usually it translates if I'd want to have sex with her or not. It's pretty much an instinctual reaction.

Also, many have mentioned you have issues with height. I'm not sure how tall you are-- but for the record height is not a deal breaker for all women! I'm relatively tall for a woman (near 5'10--imagine with heels-- intimidating!) and I would date a guy who is shorter than me.

I'm 5'6. Which is 3-4 inches shorter than average.

 

I know this has been said, but it really is about confidence. I have seen guys I am attracted to or with great personalities but noticed they don't approach me. I think a lot of it has to do with my height and them assuming I'd turn them down. There isn't a bigger turn off than me jogging toward a guy who I think is cute and as we get closer he realizes I'm pretty tall and looks away.

That must not be fun.

 

I'm not sure about other guys but from what I've heard about women, I don't even bother with girls that are more than a couple inches taller than me. And even then I wish they were shorter because deep down I get the feeling that they will reject me because of my height. Girls my height or shorter, doesn't bug me at all.

I do think it'd drastically change your life if you realize not all women are as shallow as you think.

The only way I can realize that is once I start actually dating. I need to experience it to believe it.

I repeat. This "beauty scale bull****" is a futile argument people.

 

SD has convinced himself there's something utterly wrong with him.

 

He allows this distorted belief to control his actions. He has done nothing to try to meet women, regardless of their placement on a scale (pun intended). His pontifications about himself are purely theoretical.

 

This whole thread is a cognitive distortion - and confirming his beliefs that "scales" actually exist only enables him to stay glued to his seat.

Seriously Kamille?

 

You think I've done nothing to try and meet women?

 

That's pretty insulting.

[Imajerk17]

I'll start off with this.

 

The first thing I get is that a non-overweight girl is considered unobtainable. Why is that?

 

And then, why should a guy who is lacking in some areas, have to settle for an overweight girl that he may have no attraction to?

 

Is an overweight woman really the equivalent of a no game guy?

 

The way I see it, fat people should only be with fat people. The very fact that I'm not overweight, means that I shouldn't have to settle for a woman who is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the assumption that slim, fit women don't want to date overweight men either.

 

So why is it wrong when men don't want to?

 

Another whiny thread by a Lovable Loser (who refuses to take any constructive action for himself) that is on its way to 200 posts. Pathetic.

[ditzchic]

I don't see why the overweight don't stick to their own body types. If you're a lazy fat ass, wouldn't you tend to attract other lazy fat asses?

 

The whole lazy fat ass thing should not be talked about because it isn't going to stop until every lazy fat ass in the country has tried everything in the world besides losing their lazy fat asses. Those poor skydiving instructors I tell you.... some big ole whore strapped to the front of them like so many pudding pops and cupcakes.

 

Lazy fat asses shouldn't be part of any conversation other than weight loss and dieting. To include the lazy fat ass in any other conversation is laughable. The second you hear BBW or anything fat related.... just send them a link and continue on with the real discussion.

 

 

Tell that to the fat lazy ass men who think they deserve non fat women....

[zengirl]

And what SD has been doing was:

 

- Waiting for girls/women way too long when those women didn't reciprocate

 

To me, that is not a nice thing to do. They didn't reciprocate, so he is essentially not respecting the woman's decision on the matter when he "waits." Additionally, he then gets frustrated with the woman for her lack of reciprocation, which is exceptionally NOT nice.

 

Perhaps you and I define nice differently, but I think nice, good, kind people are extremely respectful of others' decisions and boundaries and do not get angered by them. Especially people they claim to like.

 

- Being too polite to kiss them

- Being too polite and respectful to approach them in the street, because he thinks that's inappropriate.

 

Being too frightened! I'm not sure about the first one (kisses), but SD has actually come out and said he feels uncomfortable approaching a woman (or a man, in the context of friendship even!) and starting a conversation with them unless they are completely alone and he has no competition. That is not politeness. It is fear.

 

As to kissing, it's not impolite to kiss someone. It may be impolite to kiss someone you don't know randomly on the street, yes (and 99% people are THAT level of polite, so it's nothing to send out awards for). If you're suggesting he's too polite to sexually harass women, as said above: So what. Most men are! That does not make someone nice.

 

- Being too polite and too respectful to want to discuss dating a forum member

 

I'm not sure what that really refers to. He's said several things about the particular situation you're referring to (I think) that seem socially awkward to me. I wouldn't call them "nice" or "not nice" per se, but I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to.

 

People say a lot of things, but sometimes there's a discrepancy between what they say and what they do. And that discrepancy is in SD's favor. I suspect he's a nicer guy if you look at is actions, than when you would merely go by what he has been saying.

 

Personally, I'm looking at his actions and the things he's said. His actions with D were, IMO, not the actions of a nice guy. Nor are his thoughts and statements about that situation. They aren't the actions of a horrible sexually harassing creep either, but I know many men (and women) who are far nicer, so I'd think calling SD a particularly nice guy based on any of these actions is unearned. YMMV, of course. His words and actions also seem to align, IMO.

[udolipixie]

- Waiting for girls/women way too long when those women didn't reciprocate

How does that waiting too long equate good guy at heart to you? To me why he waited may equated good guy at heart. He could have waited because of fear of rejection or assuming she'd say no as he's not worthy that's not necessarily a good guy at hear that's being afraid to me or having low self-esteem

 

- Being too polite to kiss them

Is it that he doesn't kiss them and you assume the reason is he's too polite or did he state that is why he doesn't kiss them?

 

- Being too polite and respectful to approach them in the street, because he thinks that's inappropriate.

Is it that he doesn't approach them and you assume the reason is he's too polite or did he state that is why he doesn't kiss approach them?

 

- Being too polite and too respectful to want to discuss dating a forum member

To me the reason why would determine if it's too polite & too respectful. If it's for his own privacy that's him following his personal boundaries.

 

Either way not discussing personal matters in public tends to be societally normed as polite/respectful.

 

He declined as this wasn't the place can be labeled polite & respectful though I'm not seeing too applying to either one but different definitions.

 

- And similar things like that

Seems you're just attributing too polite & too respectful to his actions .

 

A guy not approaching a woman would likely be too polite & too respectiful however to me the reaosn why would determine if it's polite/respectufl. It could be his low self-esteem, fear of rejection, thinking she's a stuck up bitch

 

People say a lot of things, but sometimes there's a discrepancy between what they say and what they do. And that discrepancy is in SD's favor. I suspect he's a nicer guy if you look at is actions, than when you would merely go by what he has been saying.

Is this suspicion based on you assuming the intentions of his actions or what he has stated why he does the things he does?

[somedude81]

I don't see not trying to kiss a girl as being polite.

 

It's basically being afraid that I'll get a negative reaction out of her so I'll wait until she seems ready. This has happened with a few girls.

 

Though some guys don't care about how women feel or think at all and just do what they want. So I'm at least nicer than they are.

[udolipixie]

From what I can remember he was friends with that girl and politely waited and hoped for more. It didn't happen even after he spent 6 months waiting for her.

 

That's what I remember. I also remember that he said he had been multiple times in situations like that.

 

The person he's not nice to in such a situation is himself. It would be better for him if he moves on faster in such situations.

 

How does this relay that he's a good guy at heart to you?

 

Seems it's the waiting as you listed that and now add politely. Why it would have been impolite for him to badger her, be rude, or scold her for not giving him more I wouldn't necessarily say he's a good guy at heart because he waited for something more to happen with his friend.

 

Waiting for something to pan out doesn't exactly entail good at heart it means waiting for what you want to me.

 

I would think the quality of friend he was, whether he was genuinely friends at first or became friends in hopes of she'd later want more, and whether he genuinely appreciated the friendship even if it didn't grow to be more would suggest good guy at heart.

[Els]

FTR, I don't think SD's 'problem' is being 'too nice'. Nor is he a horrible person, really. I actually thought about it a little, and realized that the root cause of everything he is saying (that seems to a lot of us like shooting himself in the foot), is probably inexperience.

 

I honestly think that most people who have never been in LTRs, have a lot to learn about what they want and need from a relationship, and the qualities that really matter in selecting a partner. That is why SD's words sound a lot like those I hear of from the guys I used to know back in my teenage years, or the guys who have just been in casual flings. You don't really know what makes or breaks a relationship, until you have been in one. That is why people's 'first requirements' for a partner, are often mostly superficial.

 

That being said, I still think that, as I said before, he's shooting himself in the foot here. But given that zengirl and I have tried multiple times to explain to him and he still doesn't get it, it's far more likely that he'll attain an epiphany via life experience than anything we say to him.

[zengirl]

From what I can remember he was friends with that girl and politely waited and hoped for more. It didn't happen even after he spent 6 months waiting for her.

 

That's what I remember. I also remember that he said he had been multiple times in situations like that.

 

The person he's not nice to in such a situation is himself. It would be better for him if he moves on faster in such situations.

 

I think it's not being nice or respectful to either person (himself or her). She eventually stopped wanting to be friends with him (probably stopped wanting it before she expressed it, honestly) because it was uncomfortable and became clear he did not respect her wishes to never date him.

 

FTR, I don't think SD's 'problem' is being 'too nice'. Nor is he a horrible person, really. I actually thought about it a little, and realized that the root cause of everything he is saying (that seems to a lot of us like shooting himself in the foot), is probably inexperience.

 

I honestly think that most people who have never been in LTRs, have a lot to learn about what they want and need from a relationship, and the qualities that really matter in selecting a partner. That is why SD's words sound a lot like those I hear of from the guys I used to know back in my teenage years, or the guys who have just been in casual flings. You don't really know what makes or breaks a relationship, until you have been in one. That is why people's 'first requirements' for a partner, are often mostly superficial.

 

That being said, I still think that, as I said before, he's shooting himself in the foot here. But given that zengirl and I have tried multiple times to explain to him and he still doesn't get it, it's far more likely that he'll attain an epiphany via life experience than anything we say to him.

 

Right. I'm not saying these things to criticize SD. I'm saying them to help him view his own perspective (which, yes, is likely skewed from inexperience) as it appears to others and attempt to build better empathy, social skills, and a more productive attitude.

 

When I say the things he's done aren't "nice," I'm truly not intending to say he sounds like a horrible person. I don't think he does, really. Just that being a "nice guy" to me is not about passivity. SD is passive, and many people use the term "nice" to mean passive or unsuccessful which I find incorrect.

[somedude81]

You're on a roll Elswyth.

FTR, I don't think SD's 'problem' is being 'too nice'. Nor is he a horrible person, really. I actually thought about it a little, and realized that the root cause of everything he is saying (that seems to a lot of us like shooting himself in the foot), is probably inexperience.

No. That's completely wrong.

 

It should be, "the root cause of everything he is saying (that seems to a lot of us like shooting himself in the foot), is inexperience."

 

See the difference?

 

I honestly think that most people who have never been in LTRs, have a lot to learn about what they want and need from a relationship, and the qualities that really matter in selecting a partner. That is why SD's words sound a lot like those I hear of from the guys I used to know back in my teenage years, or the guys who have just been in casual flings. You don't really know what makes or breaks a relationship, until you have been in one. That is why people's 'first requirements' for a partner, are often mostly superficial.

ReallyHotGuy said something very similar to that a while ago. And now you said it as well. From my point of view, it does make sense.

 

Honestly, I feel like I have the same view and knowledge of relationships that teenagers do. Simply because I haven't been in one. It's like trying to guess where babies come from.

That being said, I still think that, as I said before, he's shooting himself in the foot here. But given that zengirl and I have tried multiple times to explain to him and he still doesn't get it, it's far more likely that he'll attain an epiphany via life experience than anything we say to him.

Exactly.

 

I need some kind of life experience to make me realize how things really are.

 

Smite me o' mighty smiter!

 

And in my mind, getting a GF would be that experience. Unfortunately, it's not something I can just wait for.

[Dust]

Honestly, I feel like I have the same view and knowledge of relationships that teenagers do. Simply because I haven't been in one. It's like trying to guess where babies come from.

 

Exactly.

 

I need some kind of life experience to make me realize how things really are.

 

Smite me o' mighty smiter!

 

And in my mind, getting a GF would be that experience. Unfortunately, it's not something I can just wait for.

 

You do realize its in your power to create and gain experience? You go to school with many teenagers so why havn't you been asking all of them out?

 

Look I realize you want something but are overwhelmed to the point of inaction. You need to figure out what you need to do to bring yourself to action. Asking questions on here for almost 5 years has brought you no closer. You were 25 when you started posting here and you're 30 now and still in the same position.

 

So if you can just start asking out girls and making moves on them great! If there is a disconect in doing the thing that will get you experience then find a friend, a relative, a therapist... something that you can actualy do towards snapping yourself into action. Just asking questions here and making scape goats like blaming overweight woman doesn't do you any good. It's all just very petty and insulting. Good luck, do something today.

 

If it were me I would just go out and hit on girls. I know you can't bring yourself to do it... so maybe find a therapist or something.