What makes you want them as an SO?

March 27, 2012

I don't recognise your reality. I don't think you recognise mine either. You won't accept that you and I can have different realities.

Plenty of us have our own realities, and because they are so variable, you cant quantify all of this.

You will believe what you want to believe because for you, your perception and experience is your reality. To say that your reality is also mine is a big leap. If you can argue in this thread that it is not about gender differences but individual differences, I'm surprised that you are arguing against you and I having different realities.

Im arguing that its gender that determines when or how someone settles down, its individual.

And I disagree that we can't quantify this. We can ask people. We can run statistics. We can look at probabilities. Although granted most of that is outside of the scope of this thread if your sampling frame for 'we' is Loveshack posters.

We CAN do studies, but they have not been done and probably will never be done. The ways in which people settle down are very personal and cultural. Its NOT a gender thing.

Unfortunately, what we can't do, you and I, seemingly, is agree. We don't have to though. I don't think it makes much difference to the OP whether we do or not. She just wants opinions. And I've given mine. And you've given yours. I don't want to derail this thread and therefore am signing out of this thread. You (and anyone else) are welcome to PM me if you wish to continue this exchange but at this point in time, I don't think we're going to come to an agreement on this particular matter.

Agree to disagree...fine. I just dont see how you cannot find it silly to try and pigeon hold people to their gender with something as highly individual as marriage and settling down. This varies from person to person, culture to culture...so for you to think it solely comes down to gender it downright silly imo. Especially when men in this thread have said this assumption about us is wrong.

I think we know men better than women do. We know ourselves, we know our sons, we know our fathers, we know are brothers, and we know our friends all better than you do. And from everything Ive seen and MANY other guys have seen, this stuff is all variable.

March 27, 2012

Your first post made this assertion.
Doesnt look to me that you were first saying guys need the right person. You were saying they needed someone good enough at the right time.

The first post was admittedly unclear, but it became palpably clear immediately thereafter and I repeated my position several times, as did others.

I chose not to respond to you up until this point because you apparently are unable to engage in a dialogue with someone and express differing ideas and viewpoints without insulting people's intelliegence and hurling insults.

With that said, like January, I will no longer respond to you.

March 27, 2012

The first post was admittedly unclear, but it became palpably clear immediately thereafter and I repeated my position several times, as did others.

I chose not to respond to you up until this point because you apparently are unable to engage in a dialogue with someone and express differing ideas and viewpoints without insulting people's intelliegence and hurling insults.

With that said, like January, I will no longer respond to you.

I know what you ended up making clear...but you cant say "that was never said in this thread" when you in fact did say men only need the right time in the beginning of the thread. You then went on to make incorrect generalizations about all men and women, when in reality men and women are highly individual when it comes to selecting a mate for marriage.

The guys in this thread even said that, and you disagreed with them and still made a blanket statement. Hell, you are on this forum long enough to see that many women need to reach the right time before they will settle down.

And please show me where I insulted someones intelligence. All I did was say that this person was not recognizing the reality that people are highly variable when it comes to this topic. Its not a gender thing. Its an individual thing thats highly influenced by culture as well.

And about you not responding to me...thank you for finally taking my previously given advice.

Edited March 27, 2012 by kaylan

March 28, 2012

Just as I think SG and January cannot speak for all men (if you recall, I did not say I agreed with their generalization, just that I think you're misinterpreting what they said), so also do I think YOU cannot speak for all men. Every man is different.

Fair enough--I need to preface my remarks with

I think..." I might have been misinterpreting what they meant, but not what they actually *said* (SG's first post on this--she even admitted that her first post on this was unclear).

But considering even that, I still think Star Gazer and January are wrong about most men. I don't think most of us need "the right time" any more than women do. When the right woman who rocks our world comes along, I think most of us want to keep her, no matter what stage of life we are in. And if we are in a relationship with someone who doesn't rock our world that way, we might trot out the "not the right time for us" line to spare your feelings. Whether we are 24 or 40.

Ladies: If a guy tells you (or any of your girlfriends) "it's not the right time" for him, you need to take that for what it really means. You probably didn't rock his world sufficiently. His hobbies and career goals appeal to him more than you do. Guys sometimes do crappy things like settle for Ms Good-Enough For Now for the time being and that is likely what happened. He trots out the "not the right time" to avoid sounding like a total azzhole.

I would even go so far to say that a woman who wants to have kids and who is going into her late 30's will start re-evaluating her standards and her people-picker. As in, she'll settle down with a guy she might not have a decade ago (e.g., someone who would make a good husband and father and she is only moderately attracted to) because she's tired going out and partying and now it's "the right time" for her to settle down. Or maybe she will get super-picky and judge men quickly because "she doesn't have much time". But I'd argue that chances are the next guy she gets to Date 2 with is on her "husband track" because now it's "the right time" for her.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Imajerk17

March 28, 2012

Thanks for chimming in guys. Let me clarify I wasn't exactly talking about marriage I was referencing the facotrs that promppt a guy into getting into a relationship. Aside from the fact that one needs to "lock down" a girl, what's the difference between deciding you want to be with that person after 2 dates as opposed to dating for more than 3 months and then decidingyou want a relationship?

March 28, 2012

But considering even that, I still think Star Gazer and January are wrong about most men. I don't think most of us need "the right time" any more than women do. When the right woman who rocks our world comes along, I think most of us want to keep her, no matter what stage of life we are in. And if we are in a relationship with someone who doesn't rock our world that way, we might trot out the "not the right time for us" line to spare your feelings. Whether we are 24 or 40.

Exactly. Men might SAY they are waiting for "the right time" but if the right girl comes around at a less than perfect time, he is NOT going to give her up. I just don't buy the claim that guys are waiting for the magic combo of perfect time + perfect girl. I absolutely believe that a lot of guys will say that, especially when they are breaking up with someone or avoiding getting serious in a relationship. But when it comes down to it, they are waiting for the right girl, just like girls are waiting for the right guy.

March 28, 2012

Thanks for chimming in guys. Let me clarify I wasn't exactly talking about marriage I was referencing the facotrs that promppt a guy into getting into a relationship. Aside from the fact that one needs to "lock down" a girl, what's the difference between deciding you want to be with that person after 2 dates as opposed to dating for more than 3 months and then decidingyou want a relationship?

For myself personally: Either she is my physical type and I like who she is, or should I say, who she is presenting herself as (we're only talking a few dates here and it takes more than that to really know someone...)

EDIT: So, no favors can get me to like a girl. BUT drama can derail it.

March 28, 2012

Thanks for chimming in guys. Let me clarify I wasn't exactly talking about marriage I was referencing the facotrs that promppt a guy into getting into a relationship. Aside from the fact that one needs to "lock down" a girl, what's the difference between deciding you want to be with that person after 2 dates as opposed to dating for more than 3 months and then decidingyou want a relationship?

IMO that has more to do with personal dating styles. Some people don't want to be in an exclusive R unless they KNOW they feel very strongly about the person they're dating, whereas other people want exclusivity even while they are just getting to know each other.

March 28, 2012

Exactly. Men might SAY they are waiting for "the right time" but if the right girl comes around at a less than perfect time, he is NOT going to give her up. I just don't buy the claim that guys are waiting for the magic combo of perfect time + perfect girl. I absolutely believe that a lot of guys will say that, especially when they are breaking up with someone or avoiding getting serious in a relationship. But when it comes down to it, they are waiting for the right girl, just like girls are waiting for the right guy.

Yep. Sorry ladies, I just don't think we men are that fussy in that regard.

Going by how I and my friends operate, I'd say that we hate hurting your feelings as much as you hate hurting ours. Especially because we as men have been taught that we are caretakers and protectors of women.

Hell I've personally trotted out the "not the right time for me" line, so I'm speaking from personal experience. I'm not proud of it, but it was what it was.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Imajerk17

March 28, 2012

This is how I've always understood men to operate: They will get serious/settle down when it's the right TIME for them. Whomever they happen to be dating at the time ends up being "the one."

Compared to women, who will want to get serious/settle down once they find the right GUY for them, regardless of whether it's the right time.

Interesting analysis but you are oversimplifying. Men are practical creatures. For us, both timing AND person have to be right. I am not going to marry some woman I happen to be dating simply because I feel it's time to get married. That's just lunacy.

Finding a woman who is marriage material is becoming increasingly diffcult in this day and age. For marriage, men want a woman who is wholesome, traditional (in the good sense of the word), has strong family values and is not a "has been" (you all know what I mean). The last woman I'd want to marry is a modern "liberated" female pursing a Sex and the City type lifestyle.

March 28, 2012

Thanks for chimming in guys. Let me clarify I wasn't exactly talking about marriage I was referencing the facotrs that promppt a guy into getting into a relationship.Aside from the fact that one needs to "lock down" a girl, what's the difference between deciding you want to be with that person after 2 dates as opposed to dating for more than 3 months and then decidingyou want a relationship?

Its all about building trust. Things need to feel right before I commit. So it really depends on the girl and the situation in determining when we become exclusive.

Guys know rather quickly if the potential for exclusivity is there. Whether we reach it with a particular girl or not is a different story.

Edited March 28, 2012 by kaylan

March 28, 2012

Subjectively from your points of views what is it about the girl/guy that makes you aant to be exclusively with them? Besides physical attraction , is it personality and compatibility as well?

With my husband, he impressed me in every way and didn't play any games. Chemistry was hot from the first moment we met and hasn't leveled off, although it's rounded by love.

While I don't believe in the one, for me, he's as close as it gets. We totally get each other!

March 28, 2012

I'll say surviving a vacation with me. You get to learn about each other in a place where there are no people to rescue you. It is their ability to be with you through thick and thin in that microcosm.

March 28, 2012

So, Imajerk... If you met your dream girl as a college freshman when you were pledging a fraternity, surrounded by hot co-eds, and had plans to go to grad school and move across the country, you'd propose to your wonderful girlfriend and get hitched at the ripe age of 19 or 20?

All you need is the right girl? The time/phase of your life doesn't matter?

I don't buy it. Sorry.

March 28, 2012

Thanks for chimming in guys. Let me clarify I wasn't exactly talking about marriage I was referencing the facotrs that promppt a guy into getting into a relationship. Aside from the fact that one needs to "lock down" a girl, what's the difference between deciding you want to be with that person after 2 dates as opposed to dating for more than 3 months and then decidingyou want a relationship?

That probably depends on how soon he develops feelings.

Do people date for more than 3 months without considering it a relationship?

March 28, 2012

So, Imajerk... If you met your dream girl as a college freshman when you were pledging a fraternity, surrounded by hot co-eds, and had plans to go to grad school and move across the country, you'd propose to your wonderful girlfriend and get hitched at the ripe age of 19 or 20?

All you need is the right girl? The time/phase of your life doesn't matter?

I don't buy it. Sorry.

It happens!

March 28, 2012

That probably depends on how soon he develops feelings.

Do people date for more than 3 months without considering it a relationship?

Some people do! Believe me...

March 28, 2012

So, Imajerk... If you met your dream girl as a college freshman when you were pledging a fraternity, surrounded by hot co-eds, and had plans to go to grad school and move across the country, you'd propose to your wonderful girlfriend and get hitched at the ripe age of 19 or 20?

All you need is the right girl? The time/phase of your life doesn't matter?

I don't buy it. Sorry.

You know what? If I was into her more than the other girls around me, then you'd better believe I would hold on to her. If she couldn't make my world stop like that, then no I would not date her then, I'd instead party with the hot coeds. And if a girl couldn't make my world stop now, then no I would not commit now either.

Would *you* have gotten hitched at 19 or 20? The time/phase of *your* life doesn't matter to you?

I don't buy it. Sorry.

(For the record, I said "the timing doesn't matter for men *any more than* for women". Go back and check it out.)

Edited March 28, 2012 by Imajerk17

March 28, 2012

I'll say surviving a vacation with me. You get to learn about each other in a place where there are no people to rescue you. It is their ability to be with you through thick and thin in that microcosm.

This is sort of true. Having a drama free vacation is just priceless and is certainly factor in deciding if she is commitment material or not.

March 28, 2012

So, Imajerk... If you met your dream girl as a college freshman when you were pledging a fraternity, surrounded by hot co-eds, and had plans to go to grad school and move across the country, you'd propose to your wonderful girlfriend and get hitched at the ripe age of 19 or 20?

All you need is the right girl? The time/phase of your life doesn't matter?

I don't buy it. Sorry.

Most kids, male or female, arent trying to settle down in their first years at college. (their first years away from home and becoming adults)

Time/phase matters for everyone I say....but from 16 to 22 I was looking for the one. My wants and needs have changed in the last few years though. It really all depends on the person.

March 28, 2012

This is how I've always understood men to operate: They will get serious/settle down when it's the right TIME for them. Whomever they happen to be dating at the time ends up being "the one."

Compared to women, who will want to get serious/settle down once they find the right GUY for them, regardless of whether it's the right time.

This is why I think there's often a disparity between when the male and female in a relationship are ready for a serious commitment. The gal is usually ready faster because she knows she wants HIM, whereas he might know he wants her but is concerned about whether it's the right TIME for him.

The irony of the whole thing is that men often have dated really great women and the one they are dating when they are ready to marry happens to be a lousy one. I've seen a lot of guys end up with a totally mediocre woman.

What's funny is that 20/25 years later their relationship has totally gone the drain (something I could already predict at the start of it) and they now regret some really great girlfriend they never could bring themselves to marry. Most of the time she has totally outgrown them.

March 28, 2012

This is how I've always understood men to operate: They will get serious/settle down when it's the right TIME for them. Whomever they happen to be dating at the time ends up being "the one."

Compared to women, who will want to get serious/settle down once they find the right GUY for them, regardless of whether it's the right time.

This is why I think there's often a disparity between when the male and female in a relationship are ready for a serious commitment. The gal is usually ready faster because she knows she wants HIM, whereas he might know he wants her but is concerned about whether it's the right TIME for him.

Then, FWIW, I date like a dude. I waited for the right time and later met the right guy. There was no way I would've settled down (after my fiance died -- I would've settled down that early since I had a first "right time" but not after that until a new "right time") with any man at many points in time. I know many women who do this same thing, too, and require the right time first.

March 28, 2012

Thanks for chimming in guys. Let me clarify I wasn't exactly talking about marriage I was referencing the facotrs that promppt a guy into getting into a relationship. Aside from the fact that one needs to "lock down" a girl, what's the difference between deciding you want to be with that person after 2 dates as opposed to dating for more than 3 months and then decidingyou want a relationship?

Hubby is sitting right next to me (neither of us works till the afternoon today), and I asked him this question. He said it was always just his style -- he's never needed months to get to know someone. As to girls he got serious with vs. girls he didn't, "They were girls I thought I could fall in love with." Sometimes he did fall, and sometimes he found out more about them and didn't. We obviously know how it went with me.

I don't know how you quantify "falling in love" (I already know reasons why hubby liked me then and continued to like me better, obviously, as we're in a R together but I doubt his personal preferences apply to many men) but I think many men I know probably share that view. Not someone they ARE in love with -- that would probably take the few months and maybe that's what some of those guys are waiting for, though I think it's hard to build love without intimacy and commitment (MMV of course) -- but someone they feel they could (or sometimes should, but that's not good) fall for is someone they're going to lock down.

FWIW, hubby also said that most of the girls he never fell for (even though he thought he could at one time) brought a lot of drama into the relationship. I agree with that. Drama is a love-killer.

March 28, 2012

Then, FWIW, I date like a dude. I waited for the right time and later met the right guy. There was no way I would've settled down (after my fiance died -- I would've settled down that early since I had a first "right time" but not after that until a new "right time") with any man at many points in time. I know many women who do this same thing, too, and require the right time first.

I believe the same. I do think that as a general rule women do tend to be 'ready' earlier, though. I'm not sure if it's just my culture, but many guys I know seem to believe that they need to have their career set in stone before they marry (and I don't mean just graduating from college, I mean earning quite decently and being able to afford a house etc), because they need to provide for their family or somesuch. On the other hand, women seem more amenable to marrying at a younger age if they are proposed to by a guy whom they see the future with.

This doesn't mean that the guys will leave the women, but I think it does mean that they simply will wait until they feel the time is right to propose, keeping it a LTR until the time occurs. This makes sense considering both biology and the societal norms that have sprung from it. Biology-wise, men seem to be under the impression that they have an infinite time left to have a family - which isn't true, but still more applicable than it is for women. Women generally know that having children is difficult after a certain age.

Societal-norm wise, in traditional gender roles, at least, the guy proposes because it is he who is usually ready later, for marriage. It is the same reason that sex usually waits until the woman is ready - because she is usually ready later than him. Of course, especially in modern cultures, many people break the mold, but I think it still tends to hold true for the majority.

Granted, this is all about marriage, which I understand papercutz mentioned that she didn't mean, but for some reason everyone's still talking about.

March 28, 2012

You know what? If I was into her more than the other girls around me, then you'd better believe I would hold on to her. If she couldn't make my world stop like that, then no I would not date her then, I'd instead party with the hot coeds. And if a girl couldn't make my world stop now, then no I would not commit now either.

Would *you* have gotten hitched at 19 or 20? The time/phase of *your* life doesn't matter to you?

Yes. I would have.

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