USMCHokie Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 You say on page one that looks are more important than people are willing to admit, now mental and emotional stimuli is enough for a woman to become sexually intimate with a partner. it's obvious we're not seeing eye to eye on this issue and i've already stated my opinion. not much more to say. we'll have to agree to disagree And yet men have been known to willingly jump on the proverbial grenade for their bros...where there is neither physical or non-physical attraction...how do you explain that...? I completely stand by my two statements that you cited...looks are extremely important, but for the simple act of sex (which my first statement doesn't really address), you need a lot less...you may prefer more, but you definitely need a lot less...
USMCHokie Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 But is it really right to be sneaky and change somebody? It's better to be upfront and try to change somebody. Communicate with him and tell him straight up what the issues are. I don't understand what the sense is in p*ssyfooting about with regard to all of this.
mickleb Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 MrCastle has this one on the money. OP, he sounds really great. I can imagine that if you were to dump him for the tiny things you're mentioning here, then find yourself with someone hotter but who, maybe, didn't treat you quite as well, you'd be sore. Really great guys aren't that easy to come by, IMO. If you think they are, then do whatever you need to do but do it quickly because, with your attitude at the moment, you don't deserve him, I'm thinking. Hokie - you are arguing with a troll (EmpoweredWoman).
USMCHokie Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 Hokie - you are arguing with a troll (EmpoweredWoman). Oh, I knew this from my first response, though his opinion is one that is shared by many, so I was addressing the general opinion and not necessarily him specifically.
mickleb Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 Oh, I knew this from my first response, though his opinion is one that is shared by many, so I was addressing the general opinion and not necessarily him specifically. He along with scores of others are on my ignore list. Unfortunately, new posters, like the OP can't spot the trolls as well. We're not all as angry as EmpoweredWoman, OP!
kaylan Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Either you are attracted to him or youre not. If I wasnt super attracted to a girl. Id move on OP
hotloader Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 I have physical flaws - everyone does. This guy makes me happy. It's just that these things bug me and I'm a bit conflicted. I don't want to make that leap and call him my "boyfriend" until I'm absolutely sure he's the right one. I've been hurt bad in the past and don't want to hurt anyone else. You just got on here and bitched about how this guy wasn't perfect (I'm sure he'd appreciate reading what you said about him), yet here you are now admitting you're not exactly a "perfect 10" yourself. Then you say that he makes you happy, and he's great in bed, blah blah blah. Did you ever think for a single, solitary second that he may have thought about your physical inadequacies? Or are you so goddamn self-absorbed that you've never given it a thought? Better yet, I wonder what you'd be saying about him if you discovered that he went on a forum and dished on you like you've done to him. I think it's safe to say that you'd never speak to him again! Am I right? This guy by far deserves better than you. You're so shallow that a little bit of belly fat than can be lost in two weeks is enough to send you into an emo whine-fest. You disgust me.
kaylan Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Btw OP, Id stop dating a girl who had the issues your guy had. 1. Someone who could stand to lose 10 to 15 lbs isnt so bad, but when you couple that with the fact that they hate exercising....Id be scared theyd get bigger once we became exclusive and that my attraction would lower even more. I wouldnt mind so much if they werent perfectly slim, but to then sound lazy would give me pause. 2. Smoking....ugh...gross...it screws up your skin and teeth and makes a person smell bad. I couldnt date a girl seriously who didnt give a flip about the health effects of smoking. Smoking is a turn off for me even if the girl is hot. Id need much convincing to date a cigarette smoker. 3. The teeth thing is directly caused by the smoking Im sure. This isnt so bad on its own, and white strips do wonders, as Ive used them in the past. But when you couple the teeth thing with the other things, it all just sounds like an unattractive package. Especially if he has no style on top of that. I remember I went on a date last summer...went to a cozy local coffee house with this girl. I got there first and got in her car with her to help her find a parking spot. She was actually smoking when I got in...and Im not fond of cigarette smoke. Like come on now, you just met me...could you not have that thing lit up already? She was also dressed kinda lame for a date. I had on a polo and jeans...and she had on a tee shirt and sweats....like come on now...thats all you wore? She looked bummy imo. Lastly, she could have stand to gain 10 to 15 lbs lol...super skinny. So the overall package wasnt nice. So I understand your dilemma OP. Id just axe the guy now and find someone youre more compatible with. 1
Leigh 87 Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Does it really matter what your friends think of your boyfriend? UNTIL your in LOVE the guy, little flaws tend to bug you. Fast forward until your in love, than it will not matter what your friends opinion of him is to you. Love over- rides that. My boyfriends friends HATE me. What;s more, I have a slightly crooked, l;ong nose. Nothing terrible, but it is not attractive. At first, although my boyfriend liked me, he felt a tad uncomfortable intriducing me to his friends, because of the fact I have a nose that is not the best, and I was not what he thought would b e attractive enough. I was 110 lbs, huge boobs and but, body of a swimswear model, straightteeth, and was pretty hot besides my less than perfect nose. My nsoe is not big, either. Just has a minor dent u can barly notice. Also, I had been through trauma in my life, and frankly, was a total weirdo. I had a great personaloity underneath it all though, so he saw it as a thing about me he could help me work on. He saw me as a grat girl, enough to show his mates, but only when I normalized, socially speaking. My boyfriends reason he his me from his mates at first was mostly due to my anti social personality. I had been through trauma that made me socially a little deviant. That is NORMAL for him to have wanted to help me fix it. It was something I NEEDED to fix, for my OWN sake. Does yout boyfriend need to fix his flaws for HIS own sake? Or, is it to make him attractive enough in you and your friends eyes? When you first meet a partner, unless they are terrible attractive, you WILL tend to zero in on their flaws, because unconsciously, people naturally tend to see the reasons NOT to go for them...I think it is a natural mentality a LOT of people have; they try to sift through all the potential deal breakers, things that are not great about the other person, before allowing them to become part of you, as a couple. In my case, my nose was a factor that initially got him thinking, BUT- if I was a great person, who was so amazing to be around, he would have still WANTED to show me to his friends! The physical blip, my bad nose, is an initial road block people tend to have, but it would have dissipated, and had my personality been stellar, he would have loved to have shown me to his mates. In my opinion, there are legitimate reasons to not want to show a partner to your friends, and then there are petty things that, while they may not be perfect, they could be over looked if you TRULY liked the guy. If you LOVED him, you would not care about his teeth and etc. You would PREFER if he did something, but it would NOT. BOther you. At all. It woul;d merely be a thought. HOw does your guy act? Do you think he would be a hit with your friends? Is he a great guy to talk to? Are your friends the types who would love him if he had a remarkable personality? if they would discard him based on his LOOKS, and they ignore his personality, your friends are snobs, frankly. If he has a personality that would captivate him PROVIDING he was good enough for them to want to look at, that is very shallow. I do understand that being healthy is a huge thing. 10 lbs and no exerccise could be indicative that he will let his health slip, which is a deal breaker and rightly so: active, fit people are more healthy, happy, and better partners in general. I understand people on certain medications soemtimes gain weight they cannot control, that is not what I am talking about. Your guys health should be the only deal breaker, ultimately. It is reasonable to simply explain to him that you do not want to see him, later down the track, over weight and unhealthy. Tell him you need an active, healthy boyfriend; he does not need to work out, but getting outside and walking together, playing a sport, and having an interest in HEALTH, is essential for you. Tell him you simply would not be happy to see your partners health diminish, and a couch potato lyfestyle is not appealing to you. Make sure it is about HEALTH, and you emphasis health: NOt appearance. As I said, people sometimes have bad genes, slow metabolisms, and larger body types, and hence cannot lose weight or ever be " ripped" short of body building. Look, I am a " nice girl", too. It sounds like your a nice girl. Do not let socities standards of beauty get in your way of loving this man! If he is prepared to work on his health, what is wrong with his teeth being not so white? Those niggling feelings are NORMAL, the ones where u doubt your partners appearance... society and your social circle influences that. However, these are instant reactions, they do not have to remain if you look at it logically: he is a great guy, if he is willing to get fitter and not let his health slip, why not allow yourself to give yourself the ultimate gift of falling in love with a great guy?
EmpoweredWoman Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 BTW anyone else notice the hypocrisy? The Loveshack Menstration Syndicate is always whining that men don't like fat women. Yet, look at the stink an equal amount of women make about things like being 10 pounds overweight. I think even that's a little extreme, I can tolerate a little bit of pudge on a woman whose got a good personality.
Leigh 87 Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 By the way - one of my boyfrinds ex best friends, and all the people she knows, thought I was re ally ugly. My boyfriend soon dismissed that girl out of his life. If your friends tell you your boyfriend is not good enough to you, because he is not attractive enough, they are the people who are ugly, on the insides. I know it sounds cliche, but it is TRUE. Some people are retarded. I have a nose with a dent, it is not even a big nose, and yet my boyfriends had a female friend, who disliked me, and ttried to TELL MY BOYFRIEND that I was not good enough for him!! Whats more, she showed facebook pics of me to HER friends who also knew my b/f, and they all talked about me; about how I was too ugly for my boyfriend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ..and I am actually attractive. SO, some people are really not worthy people of even knowing, if they discriminate against people based on how they look. Even if your boyfriend WAS truly ugly, which he is not, u should not hang around people who think lesser of people just because thwey are ugly:sick:
Leigh 87 Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Btw OP, Id stop dating a girl who had the issues your guy had. 1. Someone who could stand to lose 10 to 15 lbs isnt so bad, but when you couple that with the fact that they hate exercising....Id be scared theyd get bigger once we became exclusive and that my attraction would lower even more. I wouldnt mind so much if they werent perfectly slim, but to then sound lazy would give me pause. 2. Smoking....ugh...gross...it screws up your skin and teeth and makes a person smell bad. I couldnt date a girl seriously who didnt give a flip about the health effects of smoking. Smoking is a turn off for me even if the girl is hot. Id need much convincing to date a cigarette smoker. 3. The teeth thing is directly caused by the smoking Im sure. This isnt so bad on its own, and white strips do wonders, as Ive used them in the past. But when you couple the teeth thing with the other things, it all just sounds like an unattractive package. Especially if he has no style on top of that. I remember I went on a date last summer...went to a cozy local coffee house with this girl. I got there first and got in her car with her to help her find a parking spot. She was actually smoking when I got in...and Im not fond of cigarette smoke. Like come on now, you just met me...could you not have that thing lit up already? She was also dressed kinda lame for a date. I had on a polo and jeans...and she had on a tee shirt and sweats....like come on now...thats all you wore? She looked bummy imo. Lastly, she could have stand to gain 10 to 15 lbs lol...super skinny. So the overall package wasnt nice. So I understand your dilemma OP. Id just axe the guy now and find someone youre more compatible with. Exactly. Smoking and being lazy are turn offs. Who wants to hang out with a person who does not enjoy the outdoors, and prefers to sit around all day? This guy COULD be compelled to take care pf his health, if he is prepared to change for the OP. The thing is, smoking and inactivity are things people should VALUE. I consider smoking and inactivity to be unsuitable for me, based on my own value system.
Author waiting4u Posted March 26, 2012 Author Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Leigh - First of all, I'm sorry you have had to endure such awfulness form your boyfriend's friends. That's just terrible. Second, I really like your advice - and I suppose I like it because it is the advice I wanted to hear. How do I manage to keep this wonderful, kind, sweet man who I really like? Are these little physical issues going to be huge problems down the line? This is what worries me. But obviously, I was attracted to him enough to fall for him in the first place - his patience, wisdom, kindness - all of these things ruled out whatever "geekiness" he exhibited. I like your emphasis on health. He owns a jazz club and spends a lot of time there among smokers and drinkers, etc. and its sort of his job to socialize with them. This really worries me and I think, given his work environment, his health is a legitimate concern and I can express this to him in a loving way. I'm also really into hiking and we live near the mountains - so that might be an incentive as well. I wouldn't describe him as "lazy" - he walks his dog quite a bit, if that counts lol. The style thing isn't THAT bad. I mean, at work he wears ties and dress shirts, etc. and although I think they could be snazzied up a bit - he doesn't look terrible. Off work, I think it's just more that he dresses much more traditionally and preppier than myself and my friends, who are mostly bohemian and quirky. And my friends are not at all judgmental. They are dying to meet him based on my descriptions. I've told them my reservations about him and they tell me I'm being silly and he sounds just wonderful. And they are certainly not the type to judge him based on appearance. So honestly, I need to just get over my hang ups. I guess I was hoping people would tell me it was okay to change him - because I don't feel like it's okay. But these are just small things, and you are right Leigh that they don't matter much in the whole scheme of things. Kaylan - I don't mean to dismiss your advice at all. I hear you that the smoking is a huge issue and I understand that. It's a problem for me as well. The thing is - he is so beyond wonderful in so many ways. I've never met a man this open and honest or one that was so into me - he never shuts up about how beautiful he thinks I am. He tells me he misses me 5 minutes after he leaves. He wants to see me all the time. He texts me lines of poetry, for ciol. It's just insane. Maybe the fact that he is so great is what I'm afraid of rather than his appearance - I don' know. I do appreciate all the fabulous advice here. You guys are awesome (excluding, of course, the trolls). Edited March 26, 2012 by waiting4u
mostlyclueless Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 I once dated someone who I described to my friends as "ugly." Not just not attractive, ugly. I fell in love with him anyway. He was amazing. 1
FitChick Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 It's easier to change the outside than the inside. Do it in small increments. I'd start with the smoking. Tell him you worry about his health but that you don't like the way he smells even when he is not smoking. It gets in his hair, clothes, breath and after you've been together you start to smell like ciggies yourself. Tell him you know it's tough to quit smoking but millions of people have done it and you'll support him. Start researching various methods of quitting. I'd worry about the clothes last. You could always buy him something, "I saw this on sale and thought you'd look so sexy in it."
FitChick Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 I once dated someone who I described to my friends as "ugly." Not just not attractive, ugly. I fell in love with him anyway. He was amazing. Me, too. He was wealthy but he wore the same clothes over and over -- blue, white or gray polo shirts with black or gray cords or blue jeans. He said he didn't like to waste time wondering what to wear every morning. I thought it was peculiar until I read a story about Jay Leno saying the same thing -- he only wears a blue work shirt and jeans when he isn't performing. My ex and Jay are not good looking but I find both of them attractive based on their intelligence and humor.
Leigh 87 Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) You sound lovely:) I sensed you were a nice girl - although we cannot totally help or change our we feel, from the outset, when we FIRST see someone - we CAN help how we react to our own feelings. It is not that your shallow that you feel those things - a lot of factors determined your reactions to his physical charactericts. What makes you a shallow person or not, is how to deal with these doubts. Are they superficial, or are they health reasons? Walking his dog most days is enough exercise wise. Sure, it is great when men do ab work - sit ups, planks etc... but, as long as he walks his dog every day, he should be fine health wise. As long as he realises that he cannot eat a whole lot and stay in shape, if walking is the only form of activity. Being obese or overweight is unhealthy, so as long as he: - know's you value health - knows that if he overeats, fails to acknowledge walking is not enogh to eat a huge diet, and remains ovber weight with NO interest of fixing his health, THAT would be an issue Your friends sound fine, great:) I was horribly affected from my boyfriends friends reactions! I mean, what horrible, sad people! They live their lives thinking their fulfilled, but surely, how can a person be truly happy if they go around making fun of the way people look like! I am not even unnatractive in any sense. My nose is not even enough to make me unnatractive - it is not good but not at all bad, not big at all, it jas a smell dent in it in my profile that u cannot notice straight on. That. Is. ALL. Some people have real issues. Even if I was ugly, people should not really concern themselves with physical beauty, or lack there of. You either have it, or not. Wheather their mate is happy should be their ONLY concern. Unfrotunately, some people are not content enough in their lives, and have to comment on the way other people look... Your friends sound just fine, so go on, face your l;ittle fears, know their irrational, and go introduce him to them!! Soon, you will be so wrapped up in how HAPPY he makes you, that you will lose your reservations completely. Trust me. The same thing happened to me with my boyfriend. He hs good looking, but before him, I had a bofy builder I slept with. I had not been with a man before the body builder model dude, and had no prior experience. The sterotype tells me, that a chizzled body buildar who models is hot: so, when I met my boyfriend, the bench mark was artificially high, due to societies standards. I was also a gym junkie and was, for a split second, shallow, too much so to be able to see my boyfriend for who he truly was, and judge his attractivness based on who he was. I had that niggling feeling you had - I wondered if I would be able to parade around with a guy, who I was not sure ws attractive enough to me. I am sure he felt the same about me. I am no model. I got to know my boyfriend, and once I really got to know and like him, my doubts just melted away ! - when u truly like someone, you honestly do not care AT ALL. AT ALL - about outside opinions - if you like someone a lot, all that self doubt melts away. Your not quiet at that stage, and that is ok:) as long as u get to know your boyfriend, if you grow to strongly like or love him, the doubts about his appearance will fade, for most people. My boyfriend is attractive, I just did not see it at first, because of the sterotype of attractive that society dictates. Edited March 26, 2012 by Leigh 87
Leigh 87 Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Seriously, u sound really happy with this guy!! Go for it:) what do u havw to lose, it sounds like it could end up with a great romance:) Perhaps when u can see a good thing occuring with someone, u try to sabbotage and hinder its development? Unconsciously looking for reasons to doubt it? That said, smoking is disgusting, and he needs to at least walk his dog most days for health reasons. Let him know that, later down the track, if you got serious, that his smoking would have to go.
sezz Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 looks are not everything but you must find him attractive on some ways for there tp be a real relationship. aybe hint at him to wear a different style of clothing, however at the end of the day it comes down to if you like him as a person. u cann ot hav a relationship with someone you feel bothing for. if you feel for him in a romantic sense then hos looks should not turn u away
Lois Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Darlin' - you don't need to work on him, you need to work on you. "Beyond wonderful" trumps "geekiness" any day.
hotloader Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 BTW anyone else notice the hypocrisy? The Loveshack Menstration Syndicate is always whining that men don't like fat women. Yet, look at the stink an equal amount of women make about things like being 10 pounds overweight. I think even that's a little extreme, I can tolerate a little bit of pudge on a woman whose got a good personality. Totally dude. In fact, I actually prefer it on chicks. Not fat, but curvy and voluptuous all the way for sure. Frankly, I can't think of a single guy I know who isn't on the same wavelength in that department. What women don't understand, is that guys aren't that picky about looks. They don't get that we're looking for SUBSTANCE over anything. A girl can be very attractive, but it's of little consequence in a relationship if they're borderline retarded, shallow, and devoid of any laurels whatsoever. Good lord, could you imagine the bitching and moaning the "Menstruation Syndicate" would dole out on us if they discovered this? On the flip side of the coin, women like the OP (who's numbers are epic) put looks above all, as how could one with no substance appreciate substance? Instead they ignore the individuality of men, and focus on aesthetics solely. Shallow....So effin' shallow. 1
Mr Frisky Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Exactly how important are looks? I've been dating a guy for about four months now and we've just recently gotten a little more serious. By "dating" I mean we have drinks together after work and talk. I finally took the plunge and had sex with him a few weeks ago and since then he's been confessing that he's had a crush on me for a really long time, he's so into me - really heavy stuff. I think he's a sweetheart. We have a lot of common interests. I love hanging out with him. He's amazing in bed. He makes me laugh and makes me feel special and I really enjoy being with a man that is actually emotionally available and able to talk about how he feels. I like him. Here's the problem: I find him attractive in some ways, but he's definitely not conventionally handsome (not ugly, just average-looking) and he's sort of awkward in his mannerisms - kind of geeky. He doesn't really have a sense of style (although since we get together so much after work, I've mostly seen him in work clothes). He doesn't exercise (says he doesn't like it), and he could stand to lose about 10-15lbs around his middle. Furthermore, he smokes (which is not a deal breaker for me, as long as he does it outside) and he really needs to have his teeth whitened. He's got a great smile, but in the sunlight it's kind of yucky. I know all of this sounds superficial, but it bugs me. I'm in good shape and take good care of myself, watch what I eat, and like to express myself in the way I dress, in my tastes, etc. and my close friends are similar in temperament. I know he wants to be my boyfriend and has said the R word more than a few times recently, but these little things have been holding me back for some reason. I haven't introduced him to some of my close friends, for example, because of this. Am I being stupid and superficial? I mean, he's a great guy in every other way and these are just little external things. Honestly, it wouldn't take much for him to work out, watch what he eats a little better, whiten his teeth and get some female advice on how he dresses, but I don't think it's right to enter into a relationship wanting to change someone. It just seems like I would be insulting him to bring up these things. We have a great emotional connection and he's perfect for me in so many ways, but I feel sort of ashamed of him (and I'm ashamed of myself because of that). Do I need to end it? Is there any way I can tell him these things without hurting his feelings? Am I just a superficial b*tch? Yes, your superficial attitude will derail this promising relationship. It's so demonic,friend.
Chicago_Guy Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 that she claims she's not sure how she feels about him physically but has already put out? for me that's a problem. I also think it is weird, although I think this is somewhat common among women. One of my friends went out with a woman for an entire year until she suddenly dumped him and told him that she had never found him attractive, and I have to believe that they must have had sex at some point during that year. Also, the next girl he dated told him the same thing after she had already hooked up with him. This absolutely killed his confidence and he ended up marrying the next girl he dated even though she is much older than him.
Professor X Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 OP, beauty is skin deep, and his flaws will fade away from your vision in time, cause with all honesty, they are quite insignificant. If he's great and gives you a warm feeling inside, than go on with him, try not to focus ever on his flaws, as in, when you get to think of them, distract yourself. Focus on his strong sides, he makes u feel good in bed? have more sex with him. You connect more emotionally though talking? Talk to him more. As for the teeth, you can always bring it up in a nice way, maybe he will go get them whitened. The smoking too if you care. And as for your original question, yes you do sound superficial.
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