The Blue Knight Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Nobody really knows what causes a person to have NPD, but I don't believe it's genetic. The theory on this is, from mental health professionals, that people who have this were abused or mistreated as children, and the disorder actually stems from a deep sense of insecurity that they are trying to make up for. The concensus is that personality disorders are usually caused by poor parenting/upbringing. A lot of people on this thread have described men who were abusive as being NPD. They most likely were abused as children, either emotionally or physically. While some disorders may be genetic, like Bipolar Disorder and Schizophrenia, personality disorders are usually the result of environment (poor parenting). Some in the mental health field also believe NPD may be caused when a parent uses his child and forces him to excell in order for the parent to get his self esteem through his child. Some think it was because the child was pampered too much. I don't believe it's genetic. More likely from upbringing in his childhood. I agree KathyM. Most personality disorders, as well as simple dysfunctional living skills and poor decision making as people come into their late teens and older, is the byproduct of their terrible upbringing. I see stark examples of this at work where one dysfunctional family is calling the police weekly. 10, 15, 20 years later, those kids present in the household as young children are out of the house and following the same dysfunctional patterns as their parent (s) and typically calling the police weekly. It's too the point where it's nearly always predictable.
freestyle Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Key components of the letter. You have it all in your head that he's seeing someone. He never denies it or even addresses it head on. Then he goes on to say "if that's the way you want to see it then fine" which is a way of skirting around the fact that he's guilty. Individuals accused of infidelity who were innocent would never respond any other way than "are you crazy???" No, this isn't in your head. He's been seeing someone else. Then, he goes on to see that "I was trying to get us back on track" which I assumed was going to continue talking about all the things HE'S DONE to reach out to you romantically, but he doesn't add the things that he did to better the relationship. Instead, it's about your career! That's not how you "get us back on track." He strikes me as materialistic and in need of you to make more income, but he won't come right out and say that. Nowhere does he indicate that he loves you and nowhere does he pour out any emotional feelings for you except "I won't be able to forget those times we've shared in life." How sentimental!!! What he's doing with this letter is hedging his bet Ava. He doesn't want to completely burn down the relationship because he's going to want a backup plan if things don't work out with this other woman. So he's looking like the bigger man by just "stepping down" and leaving you to believe you're giving up a great guy and that you're hallucinating the "other woman." Rather pathetic. Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. I know it's painful to hear this, Ava. The truth is, pwNPD only care about themselves, and how things affect them, and what's in it for them. He's not showing an ounce of remorse, or empathy for how YOU are being affected by this. And it's blatant gaslighting--claiming everything is in your head, and that YOU are to blame for everything wrong in the relationship. He'll put it all on your shoulders, because he can't bear to be responsible, or accountable for his own actions. THAT's the kool-aid he's trying to serve you. But you don't have to drink it. 3
The Blue Knight Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Thank you, TBK. The incredible thing was getting out with an intact self-esteem. Agree. After his type plays with your head for that many years, it's hard to walk away emotionally intact and feeling very good about yourself.
The Blue Knight Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 1 in 100 people? Gosh, that's a lot of them. I was responding to a post here yesterday but it turned out a bit too difficult for me to finish. The gist was that I've now learned how important it is to understand people on a psychological level. The signs are always there...just look at how they treat other people especially loved ones and you'll know what to expect. I feel like I wasn't really aware of hidden dangers such as NPD, etc. Had I known, I'd have sussed my H out a long time ago. Ava, how are things going? Just looked it up and recent projections say that 1% of females and 3% of males of the population are suffering from antisocial personality disorder. Ladies, that means if you go out on 33 dates, one of your dates is a sociopath. Keep that in mind.
SandieBeach Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Just looked it up and recent projections say that 1% of females and 3% of males of the population are suffering from antisocial personality disorder. Ladies, that means if you go out on 33 dates, one of your dates is a sociopath. Keep that in mind. Just frickin' great...
The Blue Knight Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Just frickin' great... That's yet one more reason to stay and make it work Sandie. At least you know that Mr. Sandie is one of the 32, and he's just one more person in the world who made a dumb mistake, as each of us does all too often. Plus the fact that he's remorseful proves he's not a sociopath. 1
SandieBeach Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 That's yet one more reason to stay and make it work Sandie. At least you know that Mr. Sandie is one of the 32, and he's just one more person in the world who made a dumb mistake, as each of us does all too often. Plus the fact that he's remorseful proves he's not a sociopath. I don't know, TBK...sociopaths are really good at hiding the traits. Are there any quick tests to figure it out - maybe prick his finger and test the blood or something??
The Blue Knight Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 I don't know, TBK...sociopaths are really good at hiding the traits. Are there any quick tests to figure it out - maybe prick his finger and test the blood or something?? We all lie and we are all at times deceitful. That's just human beings. The fact that he rolled over on himself and in many respects opened up to you is evidence of his ability to love. Sociopaths have to imitate what they see others do, because they really don't have any innate capacity to love anyone as much as themselves. Sociopaths can't love. They have to fake it, but they can only fake it so long and that's why they can start off a relationship just fine, but the women in their lives eventually see selfishness, violence or threats of violence, and an ongoing inability to ever take on responsibility for their actions. I'm assuming this question is more "Sandie Humor" ???
SandieBeach Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 We all lie and we are all at times deceitful. That's just human beings. The fact that he rolled over on himself and in many respects opened up to you is evidence of his ability to love. Sociopaths have to imitate what they see others do, because they really don't have any innate capacity to love anyone as much as themselves. Sociopaths can't love. They have to fake it, but they can only fake it so long and that's why they can start off a relationship just fine, but the women in their lives eventually see selfishness, violence or threats of violence, and an ongoing inability to ever take on responsibility for their actions. I'm assuming this question is more "Sandie Humor" ??? Definitely Sandie humor. I tend to have very sarcastic sense of humor, and it has been to come out on LS!
The Blue Knight Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Definitely Sandie humor. I tend to have very sarcastic sense of humor, and it has been to come out on LS! I'm the same way. Have a t-shirt that says "Sarcasm - Just one of my many talents" My wife still can't read when I'm being sarcastic and when I'm being serious. She's getting better, but it's taking her a long time to figure me out. Keeps her on her toes.
Author ava123 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 hi findingnemo: he is moving out tomorrow. Last night I just went for the last bits I had to sortout. He was very cold didn't realy look me in the eye - again just spoke english with me. Looks like he never knew me. very cold. did I mean that little to him??? no this other girls is getting all the good of him and I'm was nothing to him.
whichwayisup Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 hi findingnemo: he is moving out tomorrow. Last night I just went for the last bits I had to sortout. He was very cold didn't realy look me in the eye - again just spoke english with me. Looks like he never knew me. very cold. did I mean that little to him??? no this other girls is getting all the good of him and I'm was nothing to him. What language does he usually speak to you in? Please look into counselling because when someone has a relationship with a narcissist, it can leave so much pain and devastation in your heart. A total mind f*k.. You are going to be okay. It'll just take time to heal, but you will survive this and come out stronger.
Author ava123 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 will he do the same to her later? I know I shouldn't ask this question but It feels to me it was just me. And he did nothing to try to make this relationship work - it was always onesided. I'm happy in a way I found all that mails. Cause I was kind of prepared for what was comming. I just want to thank everybody so so so much for all the advice and just to read your input on this. It makes me realize that I'm not making up stuff, thinking stuff in my head but what he makes me feel en think is normal and that he is just playing with me. Cause can you believe after reading all their mails I still felt maybe I was wrong in thinking he was seeing someone els. (I know it was wrong but I had a gut feeling something was up and I had to investigate) also I want to know this girl must know about me or not??? Doesn't she feel guilty that she started sleeping with a taken man???
findingnemo Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Hi Ava, He is just pretending to not care...or he doesn't. Whatever the case, you really should seek help as WWIU suggests. IC will help you deal with the self-esteem issues that are a result of living with a pwNPD. He did love you...just in his perverted way. {{{{Hugs}}}}
findingnemo Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 will he do the same to her later? I know I shouldn't ask this question but It feels to me it was just me. And he did nothing to try to make this relationship work - it was always onesided. I'm happy in a way I found all that mails. Cause I was kind of prepared for what was comming. I just want to thank everybody so so so much for all the advice and just to read your input on this. It makes me realize that I'm not making up stuff, thinking stuff in my head but what he makes me feel en think is normal and that he is just playing with me. Cause can you believe after reading all their mails I still felt maybe I was wrong in thinking he was seeing someone els. (I know it was wrong but I had a gut feeling something was up and I had to investigate) also I want to know this girl must know about me or not??? Doesn't she feel guilty that she started sleeping with a taken man??? Ava, you and I were posting at the same time. I would like you to change how you view this other woman. Instead of thinking she is getting all his smiles, care and love...remember that with him she will also get his controlling behaviour and other things. Don't worry about her because even if you told her what kind of man he is, she wouldn't believe you. She'll think you're desperate and vindictive. I'm sure the other woman thinks you're a crazy person and that she's saving him from your drama. It's actually a good thing he has someone new because he won't cause you trouble.
pureinheart Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 My husband...oh wow, he is a classic narcissist. A very handsome, charming, intelligent man, he can convince you of anything he wants. He was my first love when I was a teenager and I admired his grasp of economics, world issues, his mind. When I married him, I believed that we would be partners and build a fortune together. We both were business people and seemed to share the same values with regards to family. I discovered 10 days after the wedding that a man I'd known for over 15 years had a hidden side to him. Any disagreement from me translated into me not believing in him, me not supporting him as a proper wife should and eventually into me being the most likely way his enemies would get to him. The person he loved most, according to him, was the weakest link. I wish I'd taken him seriously at that point. I thought it was weird but brushed the behaviour aside. We disagreed more and more because he felt he was on his way to achieve a huge dream - would make us, our kids and future generations of our family rich. He sank more money and time into it while my income was used to run our home. He declared older and richer men his enemies and got into a war of words with them often. This was embarrassing to me personally since I knew most of them and they were friends of my parents. He became paranoid thinking that X was out to get him, Y was plotting his downfall and Z had paid off people to stop his grandiose projects. I eventually started telling him I thought he was psychotic...and I really did. There were two men living in my home. One was a normal person and the other was a psycho. Then there were the As. When discovered he acted like it wasn't a big deal. He comes home to me every night so what's the problem? I only got through to him when I told him that his sons would grow up to be like him, wasting time with women instead of using their energy constructively. I explained that if I divorced him then our dreams to be wealthy would come to nothing all because he was sleeping around. He didn't want to be seen as a failure by his peers and very seriously stopped cheating. Eventually it's the violence that ended the M. My love for him at that point was gone but I'd stayed for the sake of the kids. The last episode of violence convinced me that not only did my H have a mental problem, he was likely to kill me if I stayed. It was the things he said to me while being violent. The gist was that he was too good for me, too good for everybody actually. No one understood him just like they never understood Einstein, Da Vinci, Copernicus and other geniuses. I was incapable of loving him properly and he was determined to teach me how even if it killed me. Talk about narcissism! Today he denies ever hitting me, ever doing the various terrible things he did. He claims it's all in my head and that I'm a drama queen. He still declares the most accomplished men we know his arch enemies. Slowly people are beginning to believe my side of the story. At first only my family and friends did while he spread vicious rumors about how I cheated and he threw me out. Those who don't know him still fall under his spell. Being married to me legally works wonders for him because of the kind of family I'm from. So he won't give me a D. To make matters worse now, one of his grandiose projects is coming to fruition...and he shall not only be a major asshat but a rich one too. I'm so glad I left... It was only after leaving and trying to understand what had happened to this man that I discovered that he has a form of BPD and is a narcissist. The experience was horrible and it ended very badly. Wow, what a powerful story of courage (on your part that is). It's funny, because while in the midst of these destructive relationships we (we in general) tend to overlook the "bad", and sometimes continue to "hope" it will get better, knowing deep down it won't...then we are forced to leave and then can look from the outside - in. It then looks much different and after some time passes we cannot believe we stayed. ((((((((((FN))))))))) 1
Author ava123 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 Wow, what a powerful story of courage (on your part that is). It's funny, because while in the midst of these destructive relationships we (we in general) tend to overlook the "bad", and sometimes continue to "hope" it will get better, knowing deep down it won't...then we are forced to leave and then can look from the outside - in. It then looks much different and after some time passes we cannot believe we stayed. ((((((((((FN))))))))) we use to talk duch to each other but he is from english background - he can talk both very very good. but now he only talks english to me.
Author ava123 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 What language does he usually speak to you in? Please look into counselling because when someone has a relationship with a narcissist, it can leave so much pain and devastation in your heart. A total mind f*k.. You are going to be okay. It'll just take time to heal, but you will survive this and come out stronger. we use to talk dutch to each other but he is from english background - he can talk both very very good. but now he only talks english to me.
AlexDP Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 hi findingnemo: he is moving out tomorrow. Last night I just went for the last bits I had to sortout. He was very cold didn't realy look me in the eye - again just spoke english with me. Looks like he never knew me. very cold. did I mean that little to him??? no this other girls is getting all the good of him and I'm was nothing to him. If he is a narcissist, you mean nothing to him. All you are, is a face that gives him either good or bad attention. You're a mirror to him, nothing more. An object. So no, as a person, you never meant anything to him. IF he is a narcissist. I know it's tough to have to think about it that way, but it is what it is. Everyone deserves better, you too!
findingnemo Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Wow, what a powerful story of courage (on your part that is). It's funny, because while in the midst of these destructive relationships we (we in general) tend to overlook the "bad", and sometimes continue to "hope" it will get better, knowing deep down it won't...then we are forced to leave and then can look from the outside - in. It then looks much different and after some time passes we cannot believe we stayed. ((((((((((FN))))))))) Thanks, PIH. I definitely overlooked the bad but I think it was mainly because I didn't understand that the bad was the real "him". It took a while to notice a pattern by which time I developed a tremendously hopeful attitude that things will settle down. At the same time I felt more and more ashamed that this stuff was happening to me. Thank Gawd, my H was also violent. It sounds crazy but if he hadn't been, I'd probably still be there "hoping" things would change. And I'd have never learned about NPD...
whichwayisup Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 will he do the same to her later? I know I shouldn't ask this question but It feels to me it was just me. And he did nothing to try to make this relationship work - it was always onesided. I'm happy in a way I found all that mails. Cause I was kind of prepared for what was comming. I just want to thank everybody so so so much for all the advice and just to read your input on this. It makes me realize that I'm not making up stuff, thinking stuff in my head but what he makes me feel en think is normal and that he is just playing with me. Cause can you believe after reading all their mails I still felt maybe I was wrong in thinking he was seeing someone els. (I know it was wrong but I had a gut feeling something was up and I had to investigate) also I want to know this girl must know about me or not??? Doesn't she feel guilty that she started sleeping with a taken man??? Yes he eventually will. His true colours will come out once the honeymoon phase is over. And will she stick around? Who knows..Who cares - It's not your problem..Try not to focus on that. Focus on healing and being glad that you don't have to deal with the emotional rollercoaster anymore. Probably not. He more than likely hasn't told her much, if anything he's told her you two have been broken up for a while.
PinkInTheLimo Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) this is the letter he sent me after I gave him a letter saying I knew about her and that I'm deeply hurt. I'll be brief as possible. You clearly have something, an idea, in your head that I'm seeing someone else. If that's the way you want to see it then fine. You're clearly past the point of being reasoned with or talking to - I get that by the fact that I was faced with a letter, so I'll leave you to it. I suppose it's only fair that I return the gesture and write one myself. Truth be told, if I was seeing somebody else in that sense, I would have told you so - I have nothing to reveal. What I will openly say to you though is, that I have been growing distant from this relationship for some time now, and for that I am truly guilty of for not admitting to your earlier. I am sure you have felt it too. Remember this, I was trying to get us back on track from some time now. I am referring to the countless times we have spoken about your carreer and what you want to do in life. Every time something almost seems to materialise, you haven't acted upon it and have remained stagnant in your current way of life. Don't get me wrong - if that's how you want to spend your life, then that's your choice. I have tried to get you moving in terms of a new career path, but nothing has ever happened. How can I ever expect us to build upon something when I have endured the endless stress at my ****hole of a job, trying to progress through it's ranks filled with polital bull**** and back-stabbing. Well I've stuck it out and finally managed to get somewhere, so I'll continue enduring. Now for the logistics. I'll hopefully be moved out of here by the end of the weekend, let me know what you want to keep if you are in a state of mind to discuss this at some point, as I honestly can't be bothered with what stays here. If you can't then I'll just keep what I've accumulated over the years. In closing, these are years that we both won't get back, but I have learned that life is filled with good and bad choices, so I'll deal with it. For what it's worth, I won't be able to forget the times we've shared in life so all the best with yours. (Feel free to share this letter with whomever you want) after reading this I feel he blames me for the relationship not working Ava, I totally understand that you want to get some clean closure at the end of the relationship. But - and I hate to say this - it won't come. You are probably a kind person who wants to strive for a win-win situation but a narcissist does not function this way. He wants to win, no matter what it takes. You should cut all contact with him because he will seize every contact as an opportunity to strike another blow to you. You have to protect yourself and the best way to do that is become totally cold towards him. Yes I know it is hard. But I have unfortunately come across a couple of narcissists in my life (thanks god the relationships never lasted too long and I never married one) and once you manage to distance yourself from them you will notice how much lighter and happier your life becomes. They are toxic and they totally poison your life. So just count your losses and try to get that man the hell out of your life. And you know what: once he will see that you don't need him anymore, his ego will seriously be crushed! Edited March 30, 2012 by PinkInTheLimo
Author ava123 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Posted April 11, 2012 so we have been brokenup for 2 week. He still doesn't know I know of his new love!!!!!! He mailed me on sunday and told me he miss me. What the.... I didn't know what to say to that. On Tuesday he ask me if I could lent him some money till the end of the month. Why is he doing this. He has this whole new life. why doesn't he ask his new woman for the money. I just don't get him. One thing I know I will never never never never go back.... NEVER!!!!!!!!!!
PinkInTheLimo Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 so we have been brokenup for 2 week. He still doesn't know I know of his new love!!!!!! He mailed me on sunday and told me he miss me. What the.... I didn't know what to say to that. On Tuesday he ask me if I could lent him some money till the end of the month. Why is he doing this. He has this whole new life. why doesn't he ask his new woman for the money. I just don't get him. One thing I know I will never never never never go back.... NEVER!!!!!!!!!! ava123, I hope it is clear to you that you should not lend him money. As a matter of fact you should tell him to stop contacting you. The relationship is over. 1
findingnemo Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 so we have been brokenup for 2 week. He still doesn't know I know of his new love!!!!!! He mailed me on sunday and told me he miss me. What the.... I didn't know what to say to that. On Tuesday he ask me if I could lent him some money till the end of the month. Why is he doing this. He has this whole new life. why doesn't he ask his new woman for the money. I just don't get him. One thing I know I will never never never never go back.... NEVER!!!!!!!!!! Good! Now ignore him... He's trying to reel you back in. You were Ms. Moneybags on top of all the drama. I'm glad you see him for what he is.
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