somedude81 Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 That's an interesting distinction between compromise and sacrifice. Honestly, I don't think I would ever sacrifice my career for a man. I'm not sure why exactly, other than it is the thing in my life that has provided me with the most satisfaction. So, whoever the man is, he would need to be able to accept how important my career is. This phenomena seems to be becoming more common and there is another woman on this board who is definitely choosing her career over a man. That just feels so off to me. Men want a good career so they can afford to support their family while working in a job that they enjoy. The thought of forgoing a woman to focus on work just seems alien. Well, this is another thought on this.... If you spend more time with them early on to impress them, and then you cut back on that because that's more who you are, then to the other person, that feels like you are pulling back to the other person. I mean, I think that, as the relationship goes on, we ought to be spending at least as much time together as before, NOT less. So it might not be the guy, it really could be all you. I mean, say I meet a girl and she is eager to spend 3 days a week with me. And then after a few months, after I invested a lot into this, she is cutting back to 1-2 days a week when (far as I can see) nothing has changed with her life. Then I'd feel somewhat duped by the girl. See, she represented herself one way and then it turns out that she is someone else. Or she is losing interest. From my vantage point, what else could it be? I definitely agree with this. It would definitely be a weird thing if the GF suddenly starting to want to spend less time with me. That's a basic sign that the relationship is ending. In PU terms, it's an indicator that her interest level is going down. And that's never a good thing. So I should make sure that I don't mislead them when it comes to spending time together at the beginning. Actually, now that I think of it, the problem comes when they want to spend more and more time with me and they cross my threshold. Then I get cranky, want to be left alone, am not in the mood for sex and the whole thing gets out of proportion. I also easily over look my own need for space because a part of me finds it easier to just hang with them. Lesson to learn: when I reach that threshold, I must insist on time apart. Saw edit: it's not that I'm misrepresenting myself. It's that I reach my saturation point before they do. My opinion, figure out what your threshold is and never cross it. For example, in your last relationship you felt that spending four days together was too much and you started feeling cranky etc. For your next one, make it a point to not cross that line in the beginning and getting the guy used to it. The whole goal is to not reach your saturation point. You shouldn't even be allowing yourself to get burnt out.
Els Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 Men want a good career so they can afford to support their family while working in a job that they enjoy. The thought of forgoing a woman to focus on work just seems alien. This is definitely not the sole reason some men (and women) focus on their career. It may seem alien to you, but some people genuinely focus on their career because, well, they just want to move up in it, for personal satisfaction, monetary gain, or all of the above. Not everyone's lives are driven solely by the desire to find a mate. Supporting a family is as good a reason as any - however, for most career-driven people, I think it isn't by any means the only reason. For example, in your last relationship you felt that spending four days together was too much and you started feeling cranky etc. For your next one, make it a point to not cross that line in the beginning and getting the guy used to it. The whole goal is to not reach your saturation point. You shouldn't even be allowing yourself to get burnt out. I think this is good advice. 1
Dust Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 Men want a good career so they can afford to support their family while working in a job that they enjoy. The thought of forgoing a woman to focus on work just seems alien. Maybe she thinks you're an alien. I definitely agree with this. It would definitely be a weird thing if the GF suddenly starting to want to spend less time with me. That's a basic sign that the relationship is ending. In PU terms, it's an indicator that her interest level is going down. And that's never a good thing. Don't jump to conclusions. If you're still getting the right ammount of regular sex you'd be a fool to.
Author Kamille Posted March 27, 2012 Author Posted March 27, 2012 I feel like some of you are operating under the impression that I need days on end of downtime. Or that I starved my partners of affection. I assure you that was not the case. I mentioned the 23 days in a row that I worked, but on average, I took one day off a week throughout those relationship, a time I gladly spent with my SO. I am now able to take two days off a week. I am established/settled now. Next step is tenure, and if I don't make it, then my career definitely no longer will be a priority. These are good questions, that will help clarify a few things for people. 1.) Are you looking for time to do your hobbies that is distinctly alone or are you willing to include him sometimes if he is interested? With ex: we would usually do hobbies together. The only time we did not do things together was when I would go to the gym. And even then, usually, when he was visiting, I would skip the gym. We would even work together. Like seriously, when he visited, it was pretty much 24/7. I usually took alone time by cooking. At first he would hang out in the kitchen and try to hug me, until I told him this was "me time". At first he looked disappointed, but soon got over it. With ex ex: same thing. We did most things together, except work. We would sometimes work in the same apartment, but each in our room. I would go to the gym on my own. I would spend times with friends on my own, but half the time he was invited (he usually declined). 2.) How much "alone time" do you need? I think it's pretty clear from what I just wrote the amount of "alone time" I need isn't so high. I need an evening once awhile. I need to be able to cook or clean without having someone call for my affection and attention. I need to be able to read without being expected to turn into a sex bunny whenever Mr. is in the mood. 3.) How strict are you about getting it at the exact moment you want it? Not strict enough. I always put it off if they act disappointed, sad. Then I get cranky and snap. I think, answering these questions, the issue isn't my need for down time, it's my inability to assert my boundaries about taking time for myself. 4.) Does all this alone time need to be in completely different rooms and completely alone? (For instance, if you're doing your cooking thing, and he's in the living room doing his thing, and he talks to you every once and awhile during it, are you infringed upon?) Because I tend to tune into whoever is around me when they're in the room (it can be bfs or friends), it usually needs to be in different rooms and completely alone (but in the same apartment). If they talk to me once in awhile, I don't mind. Again, I repeat, it's becoming clear to me the issue isn't that I'm cold or starving these men of attention. The issue is my inability to assert my need for down time.
Author Kamille Posted March 27, 2012 Author Posted March 27, 2012 I definitely agree with this. It would definitely be a weird thing if the GF suddenly starting to want to spend less time with me. That's a basic sign that the relationship is ending. In PU terms, it's an indicator that her interest level is going down. And that's never a good thing. My opinion, figure out what your threshold is and never cross it. For example, in your last relationship you felt that spending four days together was too much and you started feeling cranky etc. For your next one, make it a point to not cross that line in the beginning and getting the guy used to it. The whole goal is to not reach your saturation point. You shouldn't even be allowing yourself to get burnt out. This is good advice. But I repeat, it was never a question of getting them used to a pattern and suddenly "spending less time with them". The amount of time spent together would gradually increase (from say, twice a week, to 5 days a week, to seeing each other 7 days a week- living together). It was in managing "living together" that I struggled. When I see someone every day, I don't think I should spend literally 24 hours of that day with them. I always struggled to establish my time when living together.
zengirl Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) I feel like some of you are operating under the impression that I need days on end of downtime. Or that I starved my partners of affection. I assure you that was not the case. I never thought you starved anyone for affection, but yes, I really couldn't sense the "amount" of downtime you needed -- hence the questions. As you say, it's not really that much. I think you will find dating in your area, as opposed to a LDR, eliminates a lot of the issues you had. Also, if work is slowing down, that will help as well. And, yes, asserting your boundaries is key. They seem perfectly reasonable. I also imagine most men would be happy to let you have your time to cook and such in the kitchen alone, especially if they got to eat a nice meal with you afterwards! ETA: I think there are many relationship dynamics where you would naturally get enough alone time. I've never been with a man who imposed 24/7 time together on me, personally, or didn't want his own time sometimes. Edited March 27, 2012 by zengirl
Author Kamille Posted March 27, 2012 Author Posted March 27, 2012 ETA: I think there are many relationship dynamics where you would naturally get enough alone time. I've never been with a man who imposed 24/7 time together on me, personally, or didn't want his own time sometimes. Which brings back the question: why have the last 3 guys I met had the same need for attention? I think Emilia's input is important here. The one thing they shared in common is that at first, I interpreted their need for my attention as a sign of interests on their part. I need to rely less on "sure signs of early interest" / figure out why I needed those.
Imajerk17 Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 I feel like some of you are operating under the impression that I need days on end of downtime. Or that I starved my partners of affection. I assure you that was not the case. I mentioned the 23 days in a row that I worked, but on average, I took one day off a week throughout those relationship, a time I gladly spent with my SO. I am now able to take two days off a week. I am established/settled now. Next step is tenure, and if I don't make it, then my career definitely no longer will be a priority. These are good questions, that will help clarify a few things for people. With ex: we would usually do hobbies together. The only time we did not do things together was when I would go to the gym. And even then, usually, when he was visiting, I would skip the gym. We would even work together. Like seriously, when he visited, it was pretty much 24/7. I usually took alone time by cooking. At first he would hang out in the kitchen and try to hug me, until I told him this was "me time". At first he looked disappointed, but soon got over it. With ex ex: same thing. We did most things together, except work. We would sometimes work in the same apartment, but each in our room. I would go to the gym on my own. I would spend times with friends on my own, but half the time he was invited (he usually declined). I think it's pretty clear from what I just wrote the amount of "alone time" I need isn't so high. I need an evening once awhile. I need to be able to cook or clean without having someone call for my affection and attention. I need to be able to read without being expected to turn into a sex bunny whenever Mr. is in the mood. Not strict enough. I always put it off if they act disappointed, sad. Then I get cranky and snap. I think, answering these questions, the issue isn't my need for down time, it's my inability to assert my boundaries about taking time for myself. Because I tend to tune into whoever is around me when they're in the room (it can be bfs or friends), it usually needs to be in different rooms and completely alone (but in the same apartment). If they talk to me once in awhile, I don't mind. Again, I repeat, it's becoming clear to me the issue isn't that I'm cold or starving these men of attention. The issue is my inability to assert my need for down time. Are you an academic. If so, I feel your power. You have to be really good to get tenure. No wonder why you are so busy!
zengirl Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 Which brings back the question: why have the last 3 guys I met had the same need for attention? I think Emilia's input is important here. The one thing they shared in common is that at first, I interpreted their need for my attention as a sign of interests on their part. I need to rely less on "sure signs of early interest" / figure out why I needed those. That does make sense. I think it really depends -- I think it's also perhaps about finding better "signs" of early interest. I don't think it's an either/or "be vastly uncertain in the beginning" or "be with a guy he's so needy he needs your constant attention" (I've experienced neither of those, personally). But I think perhaps it's hard to be sure in the beginning if you're used to a different kind of sign or dynamic? The next questions this leads to are: 1.) What attracts you to a man in the beginning? 2.) What assures you of his interest? 3.) What similarities can you find -- in the initial stages -- of your relationship dynamics with these men?
Emilia Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 Thank you Emilia. Very practical advice on the issue. I think I also have some underlying insecurities about being attractive enough. These mean that I am put at ease when their attraction is easy to spot. I'll focus on training myself to work out men who aren't expressive. I have no issues with making a fool of myself. That's good. Zengirls made comments a few weeks ago about making the decision to approach men she liked rather than wait for guys to approach her when she wasn't always happy with the type that did. There was a thread here about high maintenance people and I think she said high maintenance types she didn't really like kept approaching her and she took control basically. That made me think how you have much more power over your destiny if you don't just rely on men that you make a strong impression on straight away - easy as that sounds.
Emilia Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 I don't think it's an either/or "be vastly uncertain in the beginning" or "be with a guy he's so needy he needs your constant attention" (I've experienced neither of those, personally). But I think perhaps it's hard to be sure in the beginning if you're used to a different kind of sign or dynamic? No, not extremes like that but some men show more of themselves than others. I have always found those that wear their heart on their sleeve attractive from this point of view because the idea of constantly knowing where you stand with someone is a positive one. I'm sure most of us like clearcut situations. However, thinking back and talking to a couple of my exes recently - AND having met someone very attractive who is also quieter just the past weekend - make me realise how emotionally high maintenance those very open guys are. Not unreliable, not less loving, not less caring, just incredibly hard work. I think I'm ready to explore slow burners. Maybe this idea will backfire but will give it a shot. I still don't trust introverts 100% but going to give it a go. 1
zengirl Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 That's good. Zengirls made comments a few weeks ago about making the decision to approach men she liked rather than wait for guys to approach her when she wasn't always happy with the type that did. There was a thread here about high maintenance people and I think she said high maintenance types she didn't really like kept approaching her and she took control basically. That made me think how you have much more power over your destiny if you don't just rely on men that you make a strong impression on straight away - easy as that sounds. I really like that last paragraph, and is probably precisely what I did with hubby, but I never thought about it that way. Hubby was really hard to get on the 1st date. After that, he had definite interest (and I wouldn't suggest chasing guys for ages without signs of interest!), sure, but if I'd not been willing to persist a bit and comfortable approaching, I would never have found him. No, not extremes like that but some men show more of themselves than others. I have always found those that wear their heart on their sleeve attractive from this point of view because the idea of constantly knowing where you stand with someone is a positive one. I'm sure most of us like clearcut situations. Yes, especially up front. Hubby wears his heart on his sleeve with me, but he certainly didn't on Date #1. "Slow burners" is an interesting term -- I don't think ALL "slow burners" are introverts, but I have mostly dated introverts. I haven't found them less trustworthy than extroverts -- the opposite actually -- FWIW.
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