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Taking responsibility for the recurring issues in my relationships


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Posted
Somehow missed this question. I think it links to Imajerk's last comment so I'll answer both in one go.

 

Basically, before, my relationships all started as flings. It was like: Well I'm only here for a limited amount of time, but I like you, so let's see where this goes. I wasn't really focused on relationship material. Thinking a guy was relationship material usually came after we were really really into each other.

 

I'm really hoping this pattern will change. The way I see it, I can no longer throw caution to the wind.

 

Out of curiosity, do you feel there was some truth to what I said? Not necessarily for you, but for women in general.

 

It's harder for all of us to discern short-term from longer-term after you're sleeping with someone though. Bonding chemicals take over, and logical "judgment" goes out the window....

Posted
Basically, before, my relationships all started as flings.

 

Did the guys know that you initially intended it to be a fling?

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Posted
Hey Kamille,

 

My take in your relationships is that the men were some sort of item...like you have your books, your furniture, and then you have this guy.

 

And you'd cook together, make love, but it all seemed detached to me, with perhaps a feeling of coziness or familiarity.

 

It was as if having a guy was just a thing to have, and when they were gone it was, who?

 

And then bursts of "I love him so much" followed by a comment about the nice weather and how you are getting exercise and feel great, and how this guy was looking at you.

 

 

Hi A! Long time! :bunny:

 

You and some other posters (don't remember who) have mentioned this before. What i understand you're saying is that somehow you perceive me as detached.

 

Ex ex said he felt I had a wall up. Maybe I do. It's true that to this day, I love being in a relationship (and actually am quite loyal when in one), but it doesn't seem to define me the same way as it does other people. Like, for instance, the thought that maybe I will be single for the rest of my life doesn't fill me with a single ounce of anxiety. Nor does the sentence "I could never live without you" make sense to me. (The sentence "I don't want to live without you does", however.)

 

I just don't seem to have that "need a relationship to be happy" thing others seem to have. And maybe that's why I might seem to treat men as accessories (better then a purse :p). I'm of the opinion that having someone in my life would enhance it, but that it's already pretty great.

 

But I think you're hitting on something because your post is making me feel uncomfortable. And if therapy has thought me anything, it's this: where you feel uncomfortable is where you likely have to dig.

 

Now, could someone else do the digging for me please?

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Posted
Did the guys know that you initially intended it to be a fling?

 

Yes. With the last guy, we both knew I was leaving within the year. The ex ex knew I was likely moving within the year too, but we were more ambivalent (he felt ready for a relationship, I knew I wanted to prioritize my career). My ex ex ex and I debated getting involved because ... well you get the theme... I was leaving within the year.

 

(Note: since 2002, I have lived in 5 cities scattered across two continents, all for the sake of my career.)

Posted

Females waste to much money on makeup.

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Posted
Out of curiosity, do you feel there was some truth to what I said? Not necessarily for you, but for women in general.

 

I would rather speak for me than for women in general (I don't really believe we're such a distinct specie from men :p).

 

Guys who were needy or unemployed or had a lot of drama.

 

There wasn't any drama with the first guy. The second one, I eventually came to realize, had a drinking problem. It took me months to figure that one out though, so I'm not sure if it played into why I picked him. There was drama with the last guy, in that he was an a workaholic... And I caught him on a lie some months in. But again, I wouldn't say either were very visible at the onset. So I'm not really ready to say I was drawn to the drama.

 

It's harder for all of us to discern short-term from longer-term after you're sleeping with someone though. Bonding chemicals take over, and logical "judgment" goes out the window....

Posted
I would rather speak for me than for women in general (I don't really believe we're such a distinct specie from men :p).

 

Guys who were needy or unemployed or had a lot of drama.

 

There wasn't any drama with the first guy. The second one, I eventually came to realize, had a drinking problem. It took me months to figure that one out though, so I'm not sure if it played into why I picked him. There was drama with the last guy, in that he was an a workaholic... And I caught him on a lie some months in. But again, I wouldn't say either were very visible at the onset. So I'm not really ready to say I was drawn to the drama.

 

It's harder for all of us to discern short-term from longer-term after you're sleeping with someone though. Bonding chemicals take over, and logical "judgment" goes out the window....

 

females are drama lovers.

Posted
I'm taking time, right now, to try and identify what the recurring issues are in my relationships.

 

Good idea. :) That's precisely what I did right before I met hubby, so the same thing worked for me, FWIW. Great thing to examine.

 

I suspect I tend to pick guys who need a lot of reassurance, and that this leads to weird dynamics in the relationship.

 

Namely, in the majority of my relationships, my boyfriends were convinced I wasn't "as in love with them as they were with me".

 

I understand that dynamic quite well, though it never manifested the same way (re: the sex thing) for me. I think the problem is partially what SG said that you very much put yourself and your career before your relationships --- which is not a bad thing at all. Especially if these relationships started as flings and just continued because of the developed connection and intimacy, there was probably something missing that made them not good candidates for sacrificing those parts of you for.

 

I would disagree with what she said in that I think relationships actually take more than just compromise. They take sacrifice. On both sides. That's what I saw with my parents growing up -- they could compromise, but that didn't lead to their happiest decisions. In a compromise, more often than not, no one is happy. When one person sacrifices for the other, both CAN be happy, provided it's not the same person sacrificing all the time and the person truly values the person they're sacrificing for and the relationship more than what they've given up.

 

What I found with many men was I was unwilling to sacrifice for them and they for me. Compromise? Sure. Sacrifice? NO. It's a very different thing. I don't see you as someone unwilling to compromise -- in fact, you may compromise too much at times, if the problems arise when you assert yourself -- but I'm not sure you seemed willing to sacrifice in the relationships you were in.

 

So, for me the first question to start with would be: How important is a relationship, relative to the other things in your life, and what kind of a man and relationship would you feel comfortable sacrificing for, without feeling resentful? (I would suggest everyone put in as one of the criteria, "He/she is also willing to sacrifice for me" but that's just me.) That is if you want a terminal relationship. This suggestion mostly comes from my Mom, btw -- it was wisdom she shared with me when I was seeking and it helped me immensely.

 

For me, asserting myself has always been important (as it seems for you) so part of what I need to sacrifice is that I need my partner to acknowledge the sacrifice and understand where I'm coming from and also be aware of boundaries I will not sacrifice, no matter what, nor discuss compromising, etc. I think a free space to assert myself is very important, and it sounds like you may find the same.

 

Feeling responsible for other people's well-being is a draining task. It also means I easily overlook my own boundaries and then snap when people unwittingly cross them. (Am working on that, thanks therapy!)

 

It's interesting to me that you felt your relationships hit their rough spots when you asserted yourself. I'm curious to know what that means, exactly, for you (like how it happened, etc).

 

What I found with many men prior was if I did something for them/the relationship that was clearly a sacrifice for me or where I disagreed but was willing to give in, they felt uncomfortable with that. They very much wanted me to lie and pretend I had no feelings about the matter instead, and THAT built way more resentment than choosing to do things their way. That felt like losing my own identity.

Posted
Thanks for being candid Jer. I think everyday to zero might play into it, but what I find hard to understand is that it wasn't everyday than zero for weeks. It was everyday and then zero for two days, then back to everyday. With the last ex, he would even get insecure if we had already had sex that day....

 

So... I guess my question for you is this: why is that monitoring hard? What's wrong with still cuddling, kissing, etc?

 

 

 

Never felt any shame telling any guys I had my period. Usually, when I'm not in the mood it's because I'm stressed about work.

 

Which makes me think of how I've felt in the past: sometimes, when they got insecure about lack of sex, I would feel exasperated by their lack of empathy. I remember once, with ex ex, I was so tired from working so hard that I was banging into our apartment walls (had worked something like 10 hours a day 23 days straight). I really resented it that time when he got upset that I wasn't in the mood.

 

Kam... In short, what I have taken away from your relationships, is that your career always came first. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. I just don't think you were ever with someone who you'd compromise that for. (Note I didn't say sacrifice, just compromise.)

 

There are three entities in a relationship: you, them, and the relationship itself. I think when you find the right person, you're willing to do whatever it takes to make the relationship work. The relationship becomes the priority. You just haven't found that person yet, so you put yourself before the relationship. And until you find the right person, I think that's exactly how it should be.

 

As for seeking someone who needs reassurance, I don't think you're really seeking someone who needs reassurance, so much as your focus is and has been elsewhere, which makes someone else who's focus is the relationship and not himself (as it is with you) insecure.

 

I second this. I think that now that you've managed to 'settle' down a little (sorry, hon, haven't been keeping up, have you finished your PhD or something? :)), you might have better luck keeping relationships. It does take quite a bit of tolerance to be with someone who is consistently busy with his/her career, and if you tend to attract or be attracted to men who generally want to spend a lot of time together, the two will be difficult to mesh. It isn't so much a 'your fault' thing (though I'm sure you will have made mistakes in your Rs, we all do, it's only human), as the fact that the circumstances in your life at that time made it difficult for you to sustain a R.

 

Re: The sex thing, I disagree that the person who isn't in the mood always needs to accommodate the person who is. If it's a consistent thing, ie you're turning him down everyday in a row for 2 weeks or something, then yes. But otherwise, I think the compromise should go both ways. If you're clearly extremely bummed out and exhausted from working 10 hours a day everyday, the guy should certainly show empathy. Frankly, if my guy is working a 32-hour weekend (as he often does), I won't even ask, much less pressure - I believe that his well-being should most definitely come above my sexual desires in that case. Real life happens. People who expect (key word being expect, ie they complain if they don't) to be indulged everyday when their partner is working crazy schedules, are either lacking in maturity or empathy IMO. I'm not even sure how a partner would enjoy sex when you're clearly not in the mood for it but just indulging it, tbh.

Posted
I think in my case, it has a lot more to do with how I feel responsible for the other person. This, in turn, increases my need for down time. Feeling responsible for other people's well-being is a draining task. It also means I easily overlook my own boundaries and then snap when people unwittingly cross them. (Am working on that, thanks therapy!)

 

I'm still trying to disentangled the ways in which I have felt responsible for my mother's un/happiness. She's struggled with depression for as long as I can remember. Growing up, part of my job was to "read" her mood and react accordingly. I still do it. I can tell by the way she says hello on the phone what her mood is.

 

I do think that informs who I'm attracted to and who's attracted to me. It also might explain why my relationships have a pattern of being great great great and then devolving the minute I speak up for my needs. The first few months, my relationship are blissfully all about making them happy. I think I get reassurance from this - and, well, they get to be with someone who's in tune with their every vulnerabilities. Question is: how do I fix this?

 

The bolded part really hits home. But why? Why would we feel comfort from the detachment?

 

I have had these exact patterns in my relationships, for the very same reasons. I could have written all of this myself. It's something I'm trying to really address at the moment and it's really changing relationship dynamics in a lot of ways. In terms of how to fix it, the basic recipe I'm using is increased self awareness (realising when I'm entering that behavioural pattern) combined with attempts to changing my behaviour (being more honest about my own needs and refusing to take on frequent responsibility for someone's emotional well being). It's a work in progress but I strongly recommend it.

 

As for putting your career first: in your area of work, I think there are (at least) two dimensions to that. One is the effort you need to put in to where you want to be (job title wise), another is the emotional attachment and continuous involvement that this line of work often triggers. Personally, I need a partner who fully understands (and ideally, shares) the latter.

 

I think you answered your own question. You feel comfort from detachment because the kind of relationship dynamics you enter into are very draining.

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Posted

I finally have some time to focus on the generous responses I got over the weekend.

 

 

 

So, for me the first question to start with would be: How important is a relationship, relative to the other things in your life, and what kind of a man and relationship would you feel comfortable sacrificing for, without feeling resentful?

That's an interesting distinction between compromise and sacrifice. Honestly, I don't think I would ever sacrifice my career for a man. I'm not sure why exactly, other than it is the thing in my life that has provided me with the most satisfaction. So, whoever the man is, he would need to be able to accept how important my career is. Ideally, he would be someone who has a similar kind of passion for something in his life.

I need to think further on what kind of man I want, and what kind of man I would feel ready to sacrifice for. Off the top of my head: I would sacrifice for somebody I trust. Someone I know has my and the relationship's (and eventually family's) best interest at heart. Someone who's demonstrated he's capable of care. And, after my last relationship - where honesty came to be an issue, someone I know is honest. Is that the kind of answers I need?

 

 

It's interesting to me that you felt your relationships hit their rough spots when you asserted yourself. I'm curious to know what that means, exactly, for you (like how it happened, etc).

An example that springs to mind is from my relationship with ex ex. When I met him, I was starting to teach and needed a lot of guidance. We thus started out with this dichotomy where he was knowledgeable and I was the learner. Once my job as a teacher was over, I tried to redefine myself as 'competent'. This lead him to attack me professionally, at times in public contexts. (I posted here about that).

 

What I found with many men prior was if I did something for them/the relationship that was clearly a sacrifice for me or where I disagreed but was willing to give in, they felt uncomfortable with that. They very much wanted me to lie and pretend I had no feelings about the matter instead, and THAT built way more resentment than choosing to do things their way. That felt like losing my own identity.

 

Yes, that eerily echoes some of my experiences. No specific example comes to mind right now - but I've had relationships - especially ex ex - where I felt like I had to somehow correspond to his idea of 'perfect girlfriend' rather than being myself.

 

I second this. I think that now that you've managed to 'settle' down a little (sorry, hon, haven't been keeping up, have you finished your PhD or something? :)), you might have better luck keeping relationships. It does take quite a bit of tolerance to be with someone who is consistently busy with his/her career, and if you tend to attract or be attracted to men who generally want to spend a lot of time together, the two will be difficult to mesh. It isn't so much a 'your fault' thing (though I'm sure you will have made mistakes in your Rs, we all do, it's only human), as the fact that the circumstances in your life at that time made it difficult for you to sustain a R.

 

Yup, I'm all done with the Ph.D. :bunny: (You may call me doctor).

 

I agree the chore of it is an incompatibility. Yet it's one that keeps showing up in my life. Given that my career is always going to be a priority for me, how do I go about meeting men who are more independent?

(I guess I can add somewhat independent to the list of qualities I look for in a man).

 

Re: The sex thing, I disagree that the person who isn't in the mood always needs to accommodate the person who is. If it's a consistent thing, ie you're turning him down everyday in a row for 2 weeks or something, then yes. But otherwise, I think the compromise should go both ways. If you're clearly extremely bummed out and exhausted from working 10 hours a day everyday, the guy should certainly show empathy. Frankly, if my guy is working a 32-hour weekend (as he often does), I won't even ask, much less pressure - I believe that his well-being should most definitely come above my sexual desires in that case. Real life happens. People who expect (key word being expect, ie they complain if they don't) to be indulged everyday when their partner is working crazy schedules, are either lacking in maturity or empathy IMO. I'm not even sure how a partner would enjoy sex when you're clearly not in the mood for it but just indulging it, tbh.

Totally agree with you there. Thanks for covering thoses bases.

 

I have had these exact patterns in my relationships, for the very same reasons. I could have written all of this myself. It's something I'm trying to really address at the moment and it's really changing relationship dynamics in a lot of ways. In terms of how to fix it, the basic recipe I'm using is increased self awareness (realising when I'm entering that behavioural pattern) combined with attempts to changing my behaviour (being more honest about my own needs and refusing to take on frequent responsibility for someone's emotional well being). It's a work in progress but I strongly recommend it.

 

I'm getting better at identifying that feeling of 'fear'. Something behind that fear is fear of displeasing someone. Yesterday I told the ex in no uncertain terms that we were never going to get back together. Before I did this, that fear trigger happened. What if I tell him this and he never wants to talk to me again? I then rationalize that the only way we could ever eventually be friends was if I was firm that he couldn't continue to cross my boundaries. Today I'm happy I was clear and firm. I might never hear from him again, but at least he can no longer manipulate me. (I can give more details on this at another time).

 

As for putting your career first: in your area of work, I think there are (at least) two dimensions to that. One is the effort you need to put in to where you want to be (job title wise), another is the emotional attachment and continuous involvement that this line of work often triggers. Personally, I need a partner who fully understands (and ideally, shares) the latter.

Amen sister. We're truly bless to do what we do. I nearly have the job title I want. I'm in the make it or break it stage right now, but it is surprisingly less demanding than the Ph.D. I basically know what I have to do, and by now I know how to do it. (Publish publish publish).

 

I think you answered your own question. You feel comfort from detachment because the kind of relationship dynamics you enter into are very draining.

Want to stop entering those kinds of patterns. I think, for me, it will involve identifying when my actions are prompted by fears of displeasing others.

Posted
That's an interesting distinction between compromise and sacrifice. Honestly, I don't think I would ever sacrifice my career for a man. I'm not sure why exactly, other than it is the thing in my life that has provided me with the most satisfaction. So, whoever the man is, he would need to be able to accept how important my career is. Ideally, he would be someone who has a similar kind of passion for something in his life.

 

To be clear, I don't think there's any situation when someone would have to give up their career entirely for a partner (there might be situations where someone does), so that wasn't what I was speaking to. I would never give up my career and the passion I have for it, either, but I'd be willing to sacrifice a "step up" or a bit of time or part of it for my relationship with hubby, as I believe he would as well. I do not think all sacrifices are that HUGE (in fact, most of them are not). But I think for a relationship to work, at least one of the parties involved has to be willing to pass up career opportunities if they hinder the relationship. (Ideally both.) I do not think that person has to be the woman by any means -- I know many couples where it falls more on the man's side -- but if both people are very passionate and resent making any sacrifices in their careers, it often creates trouble unless you get very, very lucky or have a really good plan.

 

I need to think further on what kind of man I want, and what kind of man I would feel ready to sacrifice for. Off the top of my head: I would sacrifice for somebody I trust. Someone I know has my and the relationship's (and eventually family's) best interest at heart. Someone who's demonstrated he's capable of care. And, after my last relationship - where honesty came to be an issue, someone I know is honest. Is that the kind of answers I need?

 

Yes, those are good places to start, I think. Knowing what you want in a relationship and who you want to be in the relationship are powerful things. Those sound like excellent places to start, to me.

 

An example that springs to mind is from my relationship with ex ex. When I met him, I was starting to teach and needed a lot of guidance. We thus started out with this dichotomy where he was knowledgeable and I was the learner. Once my job as a teacher was over, I tried to redefine myself as 'competent'. This lead him to attack me professionally, at times in public contexts. (I posted here about that).

 

Ah, yes. Competition is a problem in relationships. I think there are many ways to avoid it. I'm not so sure hubby or myself would be happy with someone who shared our same field or expertise to be honest, particularly if they had a differing opinion on methods or how to solve particular problems (whether it was in education and counseling, my fields, or programming and design, his fields). I'd love to say we're ideal people without egos, but the truth is, we aren't. We channel our egos sufficiently so that they don't impact our lives or relationships much, but I definitely think having different fields, where we can each be experts and keep our own space, helps me immensely. Of course, I'm sure there are plenty of people who can have the same field and not clash too much or not mind clashing if they do.

 

What I'm wondering most is -- do the men you've dated support you asserting yourself within the relationship?

Posted
This leads to some weird dynamics, whereby they tend to take everything I do as a sign of my (lack) of interest. This is usually manifested in the bedroom, this, in spite of the fact that we'll be having a pretty active sex life (averages of once a day). My ex, my ex ex and the ex before then always got insecure whenever I wasn't in the mood. This could be if I wasn't in the mood one day, for very valid reasons, or if I wasn't in the mood one afternoon, after a lazy morning spent in bed.

 

But that's the thing: these guys should have known that I value sexual intimacy. I believe I made it pretty obvious. We would talk about it, I would tell them it was something that was important to me, that it's something I never want to take for granted, etc. (I read the first few chapters of the sex-starved marriage, and I truly believe it no sex is unfair to the partner who still wants it).

 

These statements stuck out to me. So they're seeing that your actions (or lack thereof) speak louder than your words. You talk to them like it's important, but you have other things going on (more important). Obviously they were insecure about that. But...

 

Considering the circumstances of your work and moving around, why would you not put a wall up to these guys? Obviously you knew they'd never work out long term? I think what you've had is pretty normal...

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Posted
These statements stuck out to me. So they're seeing that your actions (or lack thereof) speak louder than your words. You talk to them like it's important, but you have other things going on (more important). Obviously they were insecure about that. But...

 

My actions? So you think not being in the mood for one day contradicts the fact I value sexual intimacy. Beg to differ.

Posted
I suspect I tend to pick guys who need a lot of reassurance, and that this leads to weird dynamics in the relationship.

 

Is this a new revelation for you, or have you been aware that the guys needed a lot of reassurance during the relationships?

 

If you were aware of it, were you ready to give them the reassurance you felt that they needed?

 

Do you feel like you have trouble balancing your attraction to maybe needy men, the needs they (predictably) end up having, and your own need for time to be alone?

 

I think I can relate to that, and I know that I am very much in love but DO NOT want to be with this man (or any) 24/7, EVER.

Posted
So, whoever the man is, he would need to be able to accept how important my career is. Ideally, he would be someone who has a similar kind of passion for something in his life.

 

It sounds like you want an independent man who is compatible with your career aspirations and desire for alone time. Can you identify one such person in your past and, if so, how things went? In the real, is your want and attraction matching up?

 

On the surface, it might seem such a man would have been perfect for flings but, IMO, the true nature of an independent man would find him prioritizing himself and his passions so an intense short-lived fling which was all about the moment might be problematical, whereas a more 'needy' man, for lack of a better descriptor, would be more likely to be all about you and focus totally on the moment for as long as the fling lasted, and then you'd move on. The independent man wouldn't give you what you're attracted to for the short term, though he might make a better long-term prospect. One potential.

 

Good luck and best wishes.

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Posted
Is this a new revelation for you, or have you been aware that the guys needed a lot of reassurance during the relationships?

No. In fact, if anything, for all except most recent ex, they at first didn't seem like they would need much reassurance. The need for reassurance seemed to stem from the dynamic of the relationship.

 

If you were aware of it, were you ready to give them the reassurance you felt that they needed?

 

I fare very badly at giving anyone reassurance when they ask for it. I mean, at first, the relationship wasn't about reassuring them. It was about impressing them, and it turns out that for me, impressing pretty much = pleasing. Then I would eventually shift out of that mode and that's usually when their need for validation would show up.

 

Maybe I could work on being more patient when it shows up? Or better yet... Work on really presenting myself as I am in the beginning?

 

Do you feel like you have trouble balancing your attraction to maybe needy men, the needs they (predictably) end up having, and your own need for time to be alone?

 

Yes. I eventually grow to resent their need for validation. I think your questions are making me realize that our initial attraction is based on them 'needing me', but that this eventually saps my energy. It's also hard to flip the script and to allow myself to need them.

 

I think I can relate to that, and I know that I am very much in love but DO NOT want to be with this man (or any) 24/7, EVER.

 

:love::laugh: Thank goodness I'm not alone.

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Posted
It sounds like you want an independent man who is compatible with your career aspirations and desire for alone time. Can you identify one such person in your past and, if so, how things went? In the real, is your want and attraction matching up?

 

 

Can't think of a single one. I've dated independent guys - or, at least, guys who said they were independent, but in both cases (this was my first bf and a second guy I dated for some time) my own independence became a problem. It felt like they were defining their independence in opposition to how much their partner might need them, so when they would realize that I was actually as independent as they purported to be, a crisis would erupt. They also were never supportive of my career (likely as a result of the dynamic).

 

Later relationships with 'needier men' were better on that front. But yes, there was always the dynamic that they needed me more than I did them. I need to figure that one out. Clearly, it must be destabilizing for someone.

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Posted

Kamille, I have some of the same issues, I think. The real difference is I have kind of taken myself out of the dating game. By that I mean not that I'm not willing to meet someone, but I feel I just actively stopped pretending a lot of these guys were something they weren't at initial stages. I think I used to be more encouraging, seeking--even if I made sure they always made the "first move." Now I am much more myself, and I feel like it attracts more of the same kind of person (this goes for friends, too.)

Posted

IMO, a truly independent man would fully accept and support the demands of your career and your passion for it, as he would expect similar perspective from you regarding his. He wouldn't be there at a moment's notice, every time, nor would you. In fact, you might spend weeks or months apart due to the demands of your respective careers and passions. You would have 'reading time' (what Bill Gates calls it) where you can be completely alone. He might go backpacking in the Himalayas. You could easily be married and have such a relationship, as it's how you *feel* about each other and the actions which support and foster those feelings which form the relationship.

 

Will he be a 'fling' or 'love at first sight'? Unknown.

 

Would you be attracted to a man who didn't 'need' you? Interesting point for reflection. Where does that come from? Since my divorce, I've had to take a hard look in the mirror at attraction and emotional styles and their relative health and accept the results. Acceptance for me has meant being alone. That's one path. There are many. Hope it works out.

Posted
I fare very badly at giving anyone reassurance when they ask for it. I mean, at first, the relationship wasn't about reassuring them. It was about impressing them, and it turns out that for me, impressing pretty much = pleasing. Then I would eventually shift out of that mode and that's usually when their need for validation would show up.

 

Maybe I could work on being more patient when it shows up? Or better yet... Work on really presenting myself as I am in the beginning?

 

Interesting. I feel like I've been on the OPPOSITE side of that equation, with many men I've dated pleasing/impressing me in the beginning without presenting themselves completely as they are (not lying at all, really, as I don't think you're lying either). Though I don't innately need validation, the shift in the relationship where they 'changed' and felt 'comfortable' was always rocky and problematic and usually led to the end. That was the main thing I had to "fix" -- not choosing men like that -- to be happy, I found.

 

At any rate, I vote for Option B: Really presenting yourself as you are in the beginning.

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Posted
IMO, a truly independent man would fully accept and support the demands of your career and your passion for it, as he would expect similar perspective from you regarding his. He wouldn't be there at a moment's notice, every time, nor would you. In fact, you might spend weeks or months apart due to the demands of your respective careers and passions. You would have 'reading time' (what Bill Gates calls it) where you can be completely alone. He might go backpacking in the Himalayas. You could easily be married and have such a relationship, as it's how you *feel* about each other and the actions which support and foster those feelings which form the relationship.

 

Yes please. I'll take one of these here truly independent man :bunny::love:.

 

Would you be attracted to a man who didn't 'need' you? Interesting point for reflection. Where does that come from? Since my divorce, I've had to take a hard look in the mirror at attraction and emotional styles and their relative health and accept the results. Acceptance for me has meant being alone. That's one path. There are many. Hope it works out.

 

That is an interesting point for reflection. One of the core elements of the dynamic of my last three relationships (I had 5 in total) was that it felt like they needed me more than I did them. Is the very thing that drives me nuts something I rely on? Do I need to be needed? I think so. I think I find it reassuring. :confused:. What does it all mean???

 

I'm very close to choosing being alone. In fact, right now I'm not looking. But in a way, I want to be prepared so that the next time a guy shows up, I'm prepared not to make the same mistakes again. I'm meeting more and more people in my town and have a job that puts me in contact with a lot of people. In my view, it's almost inevitable that I will eventually meet someone.

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At any rate, I vote for Option B: Really presenting yourself as you are in the beginning.

 

Agreed. Presenting myself as I am is the better option. That's going to involve a lot of work.

 

  1. Challenging that feeling of 'fear' that takes over me when I start making decisions based on wanting someone to like me
  2. Pacing myself - not giving in to the rush / blissful aspect of it all.
  3. Identifying and enforcing boundaries

 

That's what I can identify right now. Anyone else have suggestions?

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Do I need to be needed?
Many humans derive pleasure and bonding from feeling needed. I think the key word was in this sentence:

'....it felt like they needed me more than I did them'

 

If those aren't anomalies and it's a part of your attraction style and, if you're unsatisfied with the tenor of your intimate relationships, then the 'more' part could bear some scrutiny. Like our MC used to say, 'I have some work for you to do this week' ;)

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Agreed. Presenting myself as I am is the better option. That's going to involve a lot of work.

 

  1. Challenging that feeling of 'fear' that takes over me when I start making decisions based on wanting someone to like me
  2. Pacing myself - not giving in to the rush / blissful aspect of it all.
  3. Identifying and enforcing boundaries

 

That's what I can identify right now. Anyone else have suggestions?

 

Thought of one more, thanks to Carhill

  1. Figuring out why I initially find them needing me reassuring.

 

I think that one will be tough because I'll need to assess why I rely on that - and how to orient it to something healthier.

 

I think another one I could potentially want to work on is

  1. Figuring out why I find it hard to allow myself to need someone (more than they need me).

 

It could be that the ideal relationship would be one where we hardly needed each other. It could be that I'll need to balance needing to be needed and opening myself up to needing someone in my life. Mind spinning.

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