Taking responsibility for the recurring issues in my relationships

[Kamille]

I'm taking time, right now, to try and identify what the recurring issues are in my relationships.

 

I suspect I tend to pick guys who need a lot of reassurance, and that this leads to weird dynamics in the relationship.

 

Namely, in the majority of my relationships, my boyfriends were convinced I wasn't "as in love with them as they were with me".

 

This leads to some weird dynamics, whereby they tend to take everything I do as a sign of my (lack) of interest. This is usually manifested in the bedroom, this, in spite of the fact that we'll be having a pretty active sex life (averages of once a day). My ex, my ex ex and the ex before then always got insecure whenever I wasn't in the mood. This could be if I wasn't in the mood one day, for very valid reasons, or if I wasn't in the mood one afternoon, after a lazy morning spent in bed.

 

I was speaking to friends about this and they both looked shock, saying they've never experienced this with their guys (ie, they can not be in the mood without this being interpreted as lack of interest).

 

So what gives? Why does this type of dynamic keep happening? What can I change? What am I doing wrong?

 

Trolls will be ignored. I ask that everyone else also ignore them.

[verhrzn]

I wasn't in your relationships, so I can't say if the need for reassurance stretched out into other aspects, but from what I've read and experienced, guys are VERY sensitive to changes in female sexual mood. A lot of guys seem to get their physical AND emotional needs met through sex. Sex, for men, is cuddling, hand-holding, compliments, and romance rolled all into one.

 

If a woman turns down a man in the bedroom, even for valid reasons, it'd be like a man freezing a woman out emotionally and physically. Do it too many times, and the guy starts seeing a pattern, fairly or not, of increased rejection, which makes every subsequent time sting even more.

 

I've always gone with Dan Savage on this... yes, sometimes you're not in the mood, and sometimes it is for legitimate reasons. But sex is very, very, very important to guys. If you expect monogamy, then make an effort to meet the guy half way every time.... a hand job, a blow job, or even touching yourself while he gets off.

[Kamille]

Hi V!

 

A lot of guys seem to get their physical AND emotional needs met through sex. Sex, for men, is cuddling, hand-holding, compliments, and romance rolled all into one.

 

See, I wonder if that isn't part of the issue. I'm usually the same way. I love sexual intimacy and do enjoy the occasional day of nothing but hanging out in bed.

 

In my last R, we seemed to get into trouble when I was preoccupied with other things. I was starting a new job, working 6-7 days a week. As a result, I was happy with quicker sex. Ex wasn't. He voiced concerns that it meant that I was losing interest.

 

If a woman turns down a man in the bedroom, even for valid reasons, it'd be like a man freezing a woman out emotionally and physically. Do it too many times, and the guy starts seeing a pattern, fairly or not, of increased rejection, which makes every subsequent time sting even more.

I don't think that was the dynamic that was in place. It didn't happen many times - but the few times it happened, it prompted these intense reactions. A part of me wonders if it was my own 'sensitivity' to their reaction that caused the problem. Ie, I would be worried that they'd get insecure (because ex ex ex always did) and therefore ex and ex ex suddenly felt responded accordingly. (Don't know if that makes sense?)

 

I've always gone with Dan Savage on this... yes, sometimes you're not in the mood, and sometimes it is for legitimate reasons. But sex is very, very, very important to guys. If you expect monogamy, then make an effort to meet the guy half way every time.... a hand job, a blow job, or even touching yourself while he gets off.

 

But that's the thing: these guys should have known that I value sexual intimacy. I believe I made it pretty obvious. We would talk about it, I would tell them it was something that was important to me, that it's something I never want to take for granted, etc. (I read the first few chapters of the sex-starved marriage, and I truly believe it no sex is unfair to the partner who still wants it).

[jerbear]

I'm going to do a quick response.

 

I don't think it is something you did wrong per se. It could be something that was not said or mis-understood.

 

Some of my dynamics regarding lack of interests, related to what I was going on in my life. I'll use my academic experience. When I was in college I had a LDR and me being in college, she was already 2 years in her career. Things didn't jive well. She took my phone sex disinterests to heart. I told her my schedule and I had midterms. For a warm blooded male it was hard to turn down sex from a woman, even if it is phone sex! I relented and tried. I couldn't get it up let alone be in the mood. I knew it was not ED!

 

If you don't know the guy's schedule and what is going on, work, academic, or whatever; it is hard to know if it is you. I know women might not want to say Aunt Flow is visiting and hence not in the mood. We guys might take it as lost of interests and get upset.

 

I was denied sex and thought of it as lost of interests, she was not responsive for a few days because of Aunt Flow! Once she told me I understood. But if she told me earlier, I would have been receptive. What I've learned about Aunt Flow is the she will be the ONLY in-law I dislike! :lmao:

 

 

Now I'm more cognizant of what she tells me, her schedule and what is going on. Guess what, sex was the least of her concerns. Going from everyday to zero one day is a shock! As a guy, I had to control my urges and it sucked. I couldn't even get close, touch or whatever. I even offered to eat her out while she slept or laid there! I had to deal with being the tertiary priority's tertiary problems below getting cat litter!

 

The reassurance is a sign of insecurity, sure many have it and some show it more than others.

 

I think going forward, I would be upfront with why your not in the mood, even if it is Aunt Flow. Say you are stressed at work (hard to get in the mood), major life shock (loss of job, etc) those are so hard to put someone in the mood.

[Star Gazer]

Kam... In short, what I have taken away from your relationships, is that your career always came first. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. I just don't think you were ever with someone who you'd compromise that for. (Note I didn't say sacrifice, just compromise.)

 

There are three entities in a relationship: you, them, and the relationship itself. I think when you find the right person, you're willing to do whatever it takes to make the relationship work. The relationship becomes the priority. You just haven't found that person yet, so you put yourself before the relationship. And until you find the right person, I think that's exactly how it should be.

 

As for seeking someone who needs reassurance, I don't think you're really seeking someone who needs reassurance, so much as your focus is and has been elsewhere, which makes someone else who's focus is the relationship and not himself (as it is with you) insecure.

[Kamille]

I

 

Going from everyday to zero one day is a shock! As a guy, I had to control my urges and it sucked. I couldn't even get close, touch or whatever. I even offered to eat her out while she slept or laid there! I had to deal with being the tertiary priority's tertiary problems below getting cat litter!

 

Thanks for being candid Jer. I think everyday to zero might play into it, but what I find hard to understand is that it wasn't everyday than zero for weeks. It was everyday and then zero for two days, then back to everyday. With the last ex, he would even get insecure if we had already had sex that day....

 

So... I guess my question for you is this: why is that monitoring hard? What's wrong with still cuddling, kissing, etc?

 

I think going forward, I would be upfront with why your not in the mood, even if it is Aunt Flow. Say you are stressed at work (hard to get in the mood), major life shock (loss of job, etc) those are so hard to put someone in the mood.

 

Never felt any shame telling any guys I had my period. Usually, when I'm not in the mood it's because I'm stressed about work.

 

Which makes me think of how I've felt in the past: sometimes, when they got insecure about lack of sex, I would feel exasperated by their lack of empathy. I remember once, with ex ex, I was so tired from working so hard that I was banging into our apartment walls (had worked something like 10 hours a day 23 days straight). I really resented it that time when he got upset that I wasn't in the mood.

[Kamille]

Kam... In short, what I have taken away from your relationships, is that your career always came first. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. I just don't think you were ever with someone who you'd compromise that for. (Note I didn't say sacrifice, just compromise.)

 

There are three entities in a relationship: you, them, and the relationship itself. I think when you find the right person, you're willing to do whatever it takes to make the relationship work. The relationship becomes the priority. You just haven't found that person yet, so you put yourself before the relationship. And until you find the right person, I think that's exactly how it should be.

 

As for seeking someone who needs reassurance, I don't think you're really seeking someone who needs reassurance, so much as your focus is and has been elsewhere, which makes someone else who's focus is the relationship and not himself (as it is with you) insecure.

 

Thanks SG. That's quite an insightful perspective on the whole thing. Need to think about this.

 

I wonder if, now that I'm finally settled, it'll be easier for me to prioritize a relationship?

[jerbear]

I wonder if, now that I'm finally settled, it'll be easier for me to prioritize a relationship?

Prioritize the relationship after you feel ok with it. Your career, unless you become a house wife, should be a priority.

 

Priorities change but you know when it is right and when to take one for the team. Like throw the guy a bone and give him a quickie, roll over, take a shower, skip the cuddles, and then continue your day.

[Kamille]

Like throw the guy a bone and give him a quickie, roll over, take a shower, skip the cuddles, and then continue your day.

 

I wish... I've gotten into trouble for wanting a quickie no cuddles.

[jerbear]

I wish... I've gotten into trouble for wanting a quickie no cuddles.

 

That is because you'll be a guy if you did that, insecure guys don't like to play the role of a woman.

[Imajerk17]

What Stargazer said. We obviously have a very limited perspective, as we are not flies on the wall in your interactions in your relationships. We never even met the guys you've dated. BUT, given this limited perspective, I am wondering if you might be giving off the vibe that you aren't "that invested" in the relationship.

[Star Gazer]

Thanks SG. That's quite an insightful perspective on the whole thing. Need to think about this.

 

I wonder if, now that I'm finally settled, it'll be easier for me to prioritize a relationship?

 

You're welcome.

 

Settled how? In that you're not going to move for work again?

 

Or is there some sort of career threshold you've felt you needed to reach, that you've now reached?

 

I ask because those were two factors at play for me when my career was more important to me than my relationship(s).

[Kamille]

you might be giving off the vibe that you aren't "that invested" in the relationship.

 

I wonder. Obviously I think I do show I'm invested in the relationship in a lot of ways. It is true that I'm someone who needs time alone too. (Introvert type thing). But I'm never rude about it - and, at least in the last relationship, I tried to be upfront about the fact that I was someone who needed "down time" on my own.

 

Guys, how do you know a woman is invested in a relationship? When have you doubted that a woman was invested (or as invested as you were)?

[Star Gazer]

I wonder. Obviously I think I do show I'm invested in the relationship in a lot of ways. It is true that I'm someone who needs time alone too. (Introvert type thing). But I'm never rude about it - and, at least in the last relationship, I tried to be upfront about the fact that I was someone who needed "down time" on my own.

 

But... I think that need for down time away from your SO decreases when you're with the right person. You might still need it, but if your down time remains the same/consistent from the beginning of the relationship until shortly before its demise, male or female, I think your partner is going to wonder, "Why has this relationship not become MORE of a priority for her as time has passed?"

 

Just my two cents.

[cerridwen]

Miss Kamille,

 

Backing up, does the caretaker in you choose slightly insecure, somewhat needy guys?

Is this a familiar role you've played before with a parent or central figure?

 

When my father died, I assumed responsiblity for my mother's emotional and practical well-being. At 14 years old, I was her "husband."

That had significant influence on my relationships.

 

Once grown, I gravitated toward men who were successful but who were also vulnerable in certain ways. They attached more easily than I. They were the "child" to my "parent" in terms of emotional needs and roles.

They felt threatened by my independance and I felt, on a subconscious level, comfortable in my wee bit of detachment.

Perhaps you have a similar dynamic and they're picking up on your emotional distance/detachment/independance.

 

Does any of this apply? Or, did I just project all over you?

[Kamille]

You're welcome.

 

Settled how? In that you're not going to move for work again?

 

Or is there some sort of career threshold you've felt you needed to reach, that you've now reached?

 

I ask because those were two factors at play for me when my career was more important to me than my relationship(s).

 

It's a bit of both. Mostly, because I've reached the threshold I wanted to reach, I don't foresee moving again anytime in the near future. Getting here did involve a lot of moving around. I consistently chose the work opportunities that would help get me where I am today, and not the relationships.

 

I also imagine I will meet someone here and that will change how I decide whether or not the man is relationship material. At least I hope so.

[Star Gazer]

I also imagine I will meet someone here and that will change how I decide whether or not the man is relationship material. At least I hope so.

 

Hmm. How did you decide whether or not a man was relationship material before today?

[Kamille]

But... I think that need for down time away from your SO decreases when you're with the right person. You might still need it, but if your down time remains the same/consistent from the beginning of the relationship until shortly before its demise, male or female, I think your partner is going to wonder, "Why has this relationship not become MORE of a priority for her as time has passed?"

 

Just my two cents.

 

It's actually a joke in my family that I need down time. As a kid, if I didn't have time alone during the day, I would get really cranky. My dad and sister still make jokes about it to this day.

 

I wish I knew what it felt like to be with someone that I wanted to be with 24/7. I just don't. I really think this is one of my basic personality traits.

 

It could be linked to my relationship with my mother. More on that as I respond to Cerri.

[reallyhotguy]

It's actually a joke in my family that I need down time. As a kid, if I didn't have time alone during the day, I would get really cranky. My dad and sister still make jokes about it to this day.

 

I wish I knew what it felt like to be with someone that I wanted to be with 24/7. I just don't. I really think this is one of my basic personality traits.

 

It could be linked to my relationship with my mother. More on that as I respond to Cerri.

 

That's classic introversion, no? I sometimes wonder what it would be like to have a vagina, but it's just a curiosity after all.

[Imajerk17]

I wonder. Obviously I think I do show I'm invested in the relationship in a lot of ways. It is true that I'm someone who needs time alone too. (Introvert type thing). But I'm never rude about it - and, at least in the last relationship, I tried to be upfront about the fact that I was someone who needed "down time" on my own.

 

Guys, how do you know a woman is invested in a relationship? When have you doubted that a woman was invested (or as invested as you were)?

 

Well, it's hard to know for sure, but some signs... Who is the one to end text interactions, phone calls or dates? Who is the one asking most of the questions about the other person and their life when you are together? Which one of you is the more available one, when it comes to dates, phone conversations, and text interactions?

 

If you tend to be the one to end phone calls and dates, and your partner is the more curious one, and the one who seems to be the more eager one to get together and communicate, then well, yeah....

 

Also, what attracts you to a guy? Strength or vulnerability?

 

 

 

--

[Kamille]

Miss Kamille,

 

Backing up, does the caretaker in you choose slightly insecure, somewhat needy guys?

Is this a familiar role you've played before with a parent or central figure?

 

When my father died, I assumed responsiblity for my mother's emotional and practical well-being. At 14 years old, I was her "husband."

That had significant influence on my relationships.

 

Once grown, I gravitated toward men who were successful but who were also vulnerable in certain ways. They attached more easily than I. They were the "child" to my "parent" in terms of emotional needs and roles.

They felt threatened by my independance and I felt, on a subconscious level, comfortable in my wee bit of detachment.

Perhaps you have a similar dynamic and they're picking up on your emotional distance/detachment/independance.

 

Does any of this apply? Or, did I just project all over you?

 

No projecting. The situation is slightly different though: my mom has been struggling with depression for as long as I can remember. I think in my case, it has a lot more to do with how I feel responsible for the other person. This, in turn, increases my need for down time. Feeling responsible for other people's well-being is a draining task. It also means I easily overlook my own boundaries and then snap when people unwittingly cross them. (Am working on that, thanks therapy!)

 

I'm still trying to disentangled the ways in which I have felt responsible for my mother's un/happiness. She's struggled with depression for as long as I can remember. Growing up, part of my job was to "read" her mood and react accordingly. I still do it. I can tell by the way she says hello on the phone what her mood is.

 

I do think that informs who I'm attracted to and who's attracted to me. It also might explain why my relationships have a pattern of being great great great and then devolving the minute I speak up for my needs. The first few months, my relationship are blissfully all about making them happy. I think I get reassurance from this - and, well, they get to be with someone who's in tune with their every vulnerabilities. Question is: how do I fix this?

 

The bolded part really hits home. But why? Why would we feel comfort from the detachment?

[Kamille]

Well, it's hard to know for sure, but some signs... Who is the one to end text interactions, phone calls or dates? Who is the one asking most of the questions about the other person and their life when you are together? Which one of you is the more available one, when it comes to dates, phone conversations, and text interactions?

 

If you tend to be the one to end phone calls and dates, and your partner is the more curious one, and the one who seems to be the more eager one to get together and communicate, then well, yeah....

 

Also, what attracts you to a guy? Strength or vulnerability?

 

 

 

--

 

Last question first: usually vulnerability (with one exception).

 

As to the other, I guess I should point out that I'm talking about 3 somewhat long term relationships. Two of them lasted for 3 years and one only for 9 months. So it's hard for me to tell you exactly those kinds of details, as, for the most part, we were past the dating stage. In general though, I would say that interest in each other's lives were equal, that contact was initiated on par (except, toward the end, I initiated more with most recent ex), that calls were ended rather seamlessly and my text history tells me we were pretty equal on that front.

[Ariadne]

The first few months, my relationship are blissfully all about making them happy. I think I get reassurance from this - and, well, they get to be with someone who's in tune with their every vulnerabilities. Question is: how do I fix this?

 

Hey Kamille,

 

My take in your relationships is that the men were some sort of item...like you have your books, your furniture, and then you have this guy.

 

And you'd cook together, make love, but it all seemed detached to me, with perhaps a feeling of coziness or familiarity.

 

It was as if having a guy was just a thing to have, and when they were gone it was, who?

 

And then bursts of "I love him so much" followed by a comment about the nice weather and how you are getting exercise and feel great, and how this guy was looking at you.

 

An imaginary situation, but that was the idea I got.

 

I guess I agree with SG that maybe you haven't found the right guy yet.

[Imajerk17]

Last question first: usually vulnerability (with one exception).

 

As to the other, I guess I should point out that I'm talking about 3 somewhat long term relationships. Two of them lasted for 3 years and one only for 9 months. So it's hard for me to tell you exactly those kinds of details, as, for the most part, we were past the dating stage. In general though, I would say that interest in each other's lives were equal, that contact was initiated on par (except, toward the end, I initiated more with most recent ex), that calls were ended rather seamlessly and my text history tells me we were pretty equal on that front.

 

Well then, it might be the guys you are into then....

 

I had an interesting conversation with a friend the other day. People who have their lives together actually can come across as kind of boring to some. There isn't much drama in their lives, and so maybe it's harder to have an emotionally-charged interaction. If you're on a date with someone who has issues and talks about them though, well now it's something different. See, you (generic you, not necessarily you personally) now feel the space to share your own issues, so you're "feeling a connection".

 

I brought up this observation because it might relate not only to your situation but that of a lot of other LS females. It seems that many women here go not for players or the rich handsome men, BUT they have gone for guys who were needy or unemployed or who had all sorts of other drama in their lives.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Imajerk17

[Kamille]

Hmm. How did you decide whether or not a man was relationship material before today?

 

Somehow missed this question. I think it links to Imajerk's last comment so I'll answer both in one go.

 

Basically, before, my relationships all started as flings. It was like: Well I'm only here for a limited amount of time, but I like you, so let's see where this goes. I wasn't really focused on relationship material. Thinking a guy was relationship material usually came after we were really really into each other.

 

I'm really hoping this pattern will change. The way I see it, I can no longer throw caution to the wind.