Met xMM.

[findingnemo]

Hi GG,

 

I'm glad you are over xMM. Isn't that freeing? Perhaps you needed to meet him so that you had a final confirmation that you've moved on. I can understand that.

 

BW made some comments which I almost responded to but decided to delete my text. The reason for this is that as I thought more about it, I realized that from the point of view of the BW, the MM was doing something bad, something that goes against their reconciliation.

 

I think we can all agree that the MM is still looking for something and thinks he can get it outside of his M. I won't even bother to say what I think of that.

 

I do believe though that each of us must bear personal responsibility for our actions. For you GG, meeting him wasn't in any way a bad thing because you were looking for closure. So I do not see how there can be any blame. The MM on the other hand clearly has a problem. But what's new? He was a cheater and in his W's eyes (if she were to find about the meeting) is still a cheater. That's his problem...and unfortunately hers too. It's not yours anymore.

[Gentlegirl2]

It was the best thing I ever did.. meeting xMM I mean.

 

I should clarify that he didn't ask to meet other than to make peace and say goodbye.

 

Having spoken to him.. I do believe that. He did ask if I thought we would ever see or hear from each other again but he certainly wasn't trying to get back together with me at all.

 

I just know that I am glad I did that and I think he is too. I don't feel any ill will towards him and he certainly didn't apporach me in any improper fashion during our meeting.

 

It was just a gentle, kind conclusion to a very long turbulent relationship. Isn't that the best way to end?

 

My choice, my way.

 

GG

[BrighterWashing]

It was the best thing I ever did.. meeting xMM I mean.

 

I should clarify that he didn't ask to meet other than to make peace and say goodbye.

 

----still totally inappropriate to a wife, and I believe she would see your accepting as inappropriate and still interfering in their M. JMO

Having spoken to him.. I do believe that. He did ask if I thought we would ever see or hear from each other again but he certainly wasn't trying to get back together with me at all.

 

I just know that I am glad I did that and I think he is too. I don't feel any ill will towards him and he certainly didn't apporach me in any improper fashion during our meeting.

 

----again a wife would rightly see that all very differently to you (not saying you have to do right by her all of a sudden but it's best to be aware how it looks- if she knew she would probably put some of the blame on you

It was just a gentle, kind conclusion to a very long turbulent relationship. Isn't that the best way to end?

 

---- no not for the wife. The wife wants the affair broken and you can't break something without well, breaking it. I think a fond farewell is not only no farewell it's also insulting to the wife. Again not saying you will care about that but he shoul and she will still think (if she knew) that you enabled.

My choice, my way.

 

---totally biased here but haven't you had enough things in their marriage your way already? This isn't about him and you anymore. Time for a little her way I think.

 

GG

 

Of course you can validly say you don't give a flying f about her and that is your right. I'm really just bringing the cold light of day here to what yours and his actions look like when not enshrined in the affair shroud under which the affair is just another relationship. If I were the wide and found out, or read your words (v similar to the request of Hs OW) I would say Pffffft! And probably it would motivate quite a bit of cathartic vindictiveness.

 

I've done a bit of that today (told 2 friends she has to work with).... The pleasure of making her life harder isn't to be underestimated.

Since you have no reason to lie to us GG I assume it's true about what happened but it won't look very likely to her and I don't know but I wouldn't be risking her anger personally.

[woinlove]

It was the best thing I ever did.. meeting xMM I mean.

 

 

I'm curious about your reaction because it is so different from my own. Was it really so great?

 

I'm surprised you think this the best thing you ever did, if you are indifferent. I hope you have really moved, even though the importance of this meeting to you suggests otherwise to me.

 

When I met with xMM, I was indifferent and could not say it was either the best thing or the worst thing, just somewhat interesting and a bit sad being reminded of what attracted me during my more selfish years and getting the sense that he had not changed all that much (as far as selfishness). For me, my closure came from myself well before I saw xMM again.

 

Also xMM was divorced and I would not have agreed to meet with him if he was still married as I know him well enough to know that he would not be open and honest with his W about our past, so it would be another deception. Sounds like your xMM probably hasn't told his W the truth about you and about your most recent meeting either and what it meant - two former APs getting closure together or some such thing. Don't you think the secrecy/deception is a negative and so maybe it was not really that great or the best thing? Or do you think you would still be pining for him in someway if you had not seen him again so it was important to do this anyway?

 

If xMM somehow managed to give you closure, then that is good for you. My impression is what xMM look for in such cases, if they are not looking to resume the A, is to have the xAP reassure them that they still think well of them, despite the evidence pointing toward them being selfish and treating others poorly in most cases. From how you describe this meeting and your feelings, I'm more confident that he got what he wanted than you did.

[Gentlegirl2]

I would have said "NO thank you... no interested."

 

GG

[Barrsitter]

GG - Aunt Madea is liking this!

 

I think you handled yourself with grace and dignity. I wonder though....as I would wonder if that ever happened to me....what if he was completely available? Would you try again? Or is it truly over? I'll bet your xMM is kicking himself in the rear (as least he should be. He let a good one get away.)

 

Love,

Barr

[Gentlegirl2]

Would have said the same thing..."NO Thank you."

 

I think you handled yourself with grace and dignity. I wonder though....as I would wonder if that ever happened to me....what if he was completely available? Would you try again? Or is it truly over? I'll bet your xMM is kicking himself in the rear (as least he should be. He let a good one get away.)

 

Love,

Barr

[FightClub]

GG,

 

Congrats! I think you've done an outstanding job of facing your fears, you quite literally decided to face a fear, break the NC with xMM and tell him where you stand in not contacting you again. Ever.

 

It's something to be proud of because you're not trying to re-engage in an affair with a xMM who from what I recall was looking for fun on the side in his marriage.

 

Best of luck to you and keep looking forward from here.

 

Brighterwashing,

 

I was reading into your backstory and it's unfortunate what has happened in your marriage and I can only imagine it's a tough situation to deal with as a BW, I don't blame you for feeling a certain way about any OW given your situation but I would like to point out, GG isn't trying to engage in a affair xMM any longer, the guy from what we've been told is still actively seeking women on the side while he fools his own wife.

 

I think it's a bit unfair to GG that you paint her xMM as someone like your husband, that he wants to reconcile his marriage at all, almost like there is some projecting going on. Honestly, it's not a happy situation for *anyone* involved and I hope you find peace over time and resolution in the pain that you are feeling with the WH.

 

Healing truly comes when you can let go of that, GG is healing within herself and far, far away from her former situation, it's something a lot of OM/OW IRL don't do, they just continue to play or be played on a fiddle. She's proactively doing what she felt was right for her.

 

Everyone makes bad choices, choosing the right one's are the most difficult, especially in a situation that ends in pain for everyone, so I give her credit and much support in finding her own way.

 

 

-FC

Edited March 25, 2012 by FightClub

[beenburned]

GG,

Several people on here have said your XMM is a serial cheater that is still actively cheating on his wife.

 

Is the wife aware of this fact or being kept in the dark?

 

Were you aware of the fact he was a serial cheater when you two were together? Or did you only find out after it was over?

 

I have read for years on many different boards. I am amazed at the number of OW that go into an affair knowing the MM is a serial cheater!!

 

Why do you think OW do that?

[findingnemo]

I don't know how it works in other places. Here when you get involved with a serial cheater, people warn you about him. Of course I'm talking about single guys who are SCs. I know (as in can identify them in a line up, not friends) a few women who sleep with serial cheating MMs. They don't care because it's not about love. Usually a OW falls in love with a MM o ly to later find he is a master at deception and everything he ever said was a lie.

 

Just like there are MMs cheating for variety, there are women who sleep with men for the same reason. I doubt that they are interested in the specific qualities or lack of, of the person.

[alexandria35]

I'm curious about your reaction because it is so different from my own. Was it really so great?

 

I'm surprised you think this the best thing you ever did, if you are indifferent. I hope you have really moved, even though the importance of this meeting to you suggests otherwise to me.

 

When I met with xMM, I was indifferent and could not say it was either the best thing or the worst thing, just somewhat interesting and a bit sad being reminded of what attracted me during my more selfish years and getting the sense that he had not changed all that much (as far as selfishness). For me, my closure came from myself well before I saw xMM again.

 

Also xMM was divorced and I would not have agreed to meet with him if he was still married as I know him well enough to know that he would not be open and honest with his W about our past, so it would be another deception. Sounds like your xMM probably hasn't told his W the truth about you and about your most recent meeting either and what it meant - two former APs getting closure together or some such thing. Don't you think the secrecy/deception is a negative and so maybe it was not really that great or the best thing? Or do you think you would still be pining for him in someway if you had not seen him again so it was important to do this anyway?

 

If xMM somehow managed to give you closure, then that is good for you. My impression is what xMM look for in such cases, if they are not looking to resume the A, is to have the xAP reassure them that they still think well of them, despite the evidence pointing toward them being selfish and treating others poorly in most cases. From how you describe this meeting and your feelings, I'm more confident that he got what he wanted than you did.

 

I totally agree. Guys don't go meeting up with exes to get closure or say goodbye. I think GG's exmm was fishing plain and simple, but he was wearing a poker face, gauging his actions based on GG's actions. Had she opened the door to him even a little bit he would have been all over it. I had an ex like this. He would contact me but not make a move until I indicated that to do so would be ok (okay we were both kind of screwed up and played this game with each other all the time..haha) and then he would pounce. If I didn't say something that indicated he had a green light such as saying "hey I still miss you" or "I've been thinking about you" or something like that, then he would play it cool and act completely plantonic and friendly through out the entire interaction. His pride and fragile ego simply wouldn't allow him to go out on that limb and risk rejection. I had to give him the okay signal first. Then when our relationship went to crap again like it always did we would blame each other for luring the other back. In his mind I had pursued him by opening the door and in my mind he had pursued me by knocking on the door in the first place...haha..funny little song and dance we had going on.

 

Personally I think seeing a ex for closure is crap. I have lots of exes and I feel no need to see any of them for my closure. That happened a long time ago and I didn't need them to get it. I ran into an ex last year and I didn't feel anything. Not anger, not sadness, not attraction. I didn't feel good or feel like I really needed to see him to know I was over him. I already knew my own feelings and my own mind, I didn't need him to help me know myself. If any of my exes called me up saying that they needed to see me to say goodbye or for closure I would think they had gone of their rockers. No..actually I would think they were lying and were really trying to see if there was still some interest on my part. I would tell them to get lost, except for the guy I mentioned in my first paragraph. If he called me up looking for "closure" depending on how I felt in the moment I might meet him, agreeing that "sure we should see each other for closure" ...haha. But I'm no dummy. I know that I'm not over him and that seeing him isn't going to give me any closure.

 

GG's MM was testing the waters and seeing if there were any openings he could squeeze himself through. She didn't give him any so off he went, probably to troll the internet, looking for fresh supply. It may have been disrespectful to his marriage to meet with GG but big whoop. He doesn't have any respect for his marriage, his wife, his OW(s) or himself so why bother discussing this situation as if he's some remorseful cheating husband who is working on putting his marriage together and GG intruded on that by meeting with him? That's not the case here, if he was working on his marriage he would never have asked to see GG without his wife's knowledge. I think GG should have refused to meet with him simply because he doesn't deserve to have her kindness or her forgiveness. As woeinlove said, I think he got more out of the meeting than GG did. He got to leave the situation behind feeling good about himself and now all is right in his world again. He can now go back to his online hookups without guilt and remorse because look at how it all turned out so nice for him and GG. She's fine and she still thinks he's okay so where's the harm?

[mercy]

Most men are looking for openings rather than closings.

 

eh - I don't believe there's such a thing as closure.

[Confused4Now]

Most men are looking for openings rather than closings.

 

eh - I don't believe there's such a thing as closure.

Funny I see it as both men and women are looking for openings rather than closings.

[mercy]

Funny I see it as both men and women are looking for openings rather than closings.

 

 

It is kinda funny, if it weren't so sad.

[fellhard4u]

The bolded......the proper question should be, why would ANY WOMAN choose to get involved with a known serial cheater. Why should it apply to just ow? IMO, any woman who knowingly gets involved with a man who is a known serial cheater has some big issues of her own and a woman who stays with one, well that ups the issues tremendously.

 

Serial cheaters are often not worth the bullet it takes to shoot em.

 

I knew from xMM's reputation and from what he told me himself that he was a serial cheater and I still engaged in the A.

 

As to why? I believe that it was partly due to my ignorance about the psychology behind cheating and about love in general. It wasn't after I started reading books, articles and forums such as LS that I became aware of the dynamics behind relationships and affairs that I started to understand that xMM did not become involved with me because there was something wrong with his marriage, BW or because he believed that I was a better "fit" for him.

 

I naively believed that xMM pursued me and continued to send constant mixed signals my way (even after the A ended because he decided he wanted to work on his marriage) because I was "special" (:o:o) and that his previous serial cheating was due to having had the "wrong" partner at the time.

 

Since the end of the A (15 months ago), I've had to confront my own inner demons as to what caused me to go down that most painful and shameful path.

 

BTW, xMM started an A with current BW , while still married to his previous BW. Serial Cheater alright...

[beenburned]

Fellhard4u,

Thank you for your honest answer!

 

I'm glad we get different points of view here to learn and grow.

 

So, not only was he a serial cheater ,but he had 2 BW's! Which goes to show the problem is with him only.

[Gentlegirl2]

I would not have known even what a serial cheater was when I got involved in the A. I don't think I even knew anybody persoanlly who had been in an affair. Such was my life before the A. It was all out of my universe before.

 

I do believe now that he is a serial cheater as I found out he was on a dating website.

 

I would have no idea why anybody would INTENTIONALLY become involved with a serial cheater.

 

cheers,

 

GG

 

 

 

 

Several people on here have said your XMM is a serial cheater that is still actively cheating on his wife.

 

Is the wife aware of this fact or being kept in the dark?

 

Were you aware of the fact he was a serial cheater when you two were together? Or did you only find out after it was over?

 

I have read for years on many different boards. I am amazed at the number of OW that go into an affair knowing the MM is a serial cheater!!

 

Why do you think OW do that?

[beenburned]

Thanks GG!

 

It sounds like there are a lot of naive women that fall for the charms of serial cheaters. They usually are very charming and good looking.

 

It's almost like they are con artists that have perfected their skills over the years.

[woinlove]

Thanks GG!

 

It sounds like there are a lot of naive women that fall for the charms of serial cheaters. They usually are very charming and good looking.

 

It's almost like they are con artists that have perfected their skills over the years.

 

Maybe naive, but also some women make bad choices during a vulnerable time in their lives, seeking that quick external validation that an A often offers, while an open and honest R usually takes more time. Could be during an illness, a divorce, the death of someone close,... That seems to be a fairly common scenario for getting involved with a MM, and in some cases with a serial cheater. Still something there for them to look into, learn from, and do the work needed to change, since so many other women deal with life's tragedies and stresses in more honest and healthy ways.

[Angelina527]

Maybe naive, but also some women make bad choices during a vulnerable time in their lives, seeking that quick external validation that an A often offers, while an open and honest R usually takes more time. Could be during an illness, a divorce, the death of someone close,... That seems to be a fairly common scenario for getting involved with a MM, and in some cases with a serial cheater. Still something there for them to look into, learn from, and do the work needed to change, since so many other women deal with life's tragedies and stresses in more honest and healthy ways.

 

This is why I got involved with my husband while he was married. I was very vulnerable...I had gone through a divorce and my ex was stalking me, breaking into my home and beating me, and terrifying me at every turn. I think that I needed that safe zone. I needed to feel as if nobody could harm me.

 

Bad reason and very selfish, but that's how it started.

[wannabdone]

Thanks GG!

 

It sounds like there are a lot of naive women that fall for the charms of serial cheaters. They usually are very charming and good looking.

 

It's almost like they are con artists that have perfected their skills over the years.

 

I think those are called sociopaths.

[frozensprouts]

I think those are called sociopaths.

 

 

I read once that there is a certain percentage of the population that meets the definition of being a sociopath ( can't remember what it is), but they don't fit the " evil serial killer" stereotype that we so often think of...

 

these people, from what I understand, often are really successful in occupations where being "heartless" is an asset ( e.g.- business, etc.)

 

they are also extremely empathetic, in that they can "read" people and "change" themselves to suit what a particular person is looking for...they can come off as very caring and kind, when there really is no depth at all to their emotions... they will change their "morals" to whatever best suits their needs at a particular time . this sounds like it applies to more than just a few serial cheaters ( and perhaps to some serial other men/women as well)

[wannabdone]

I read once that there is a certain percentage of the population that meets the definition of being a sociopath ( can't remember what it is), but they don't fit the " evil serial killer" stereotype that we so often think of...

 

these people, from what I understand, often are really successful in occupations where being "heartless" is an asset ( e.g.- business, etc.)

 

they are also extremely empathetic, in that they can "read" people and "change" themselves to suit what a particular person is looking for...they can come off as very caring and kind, when there really is no depth at all to their emotions... they will change their "morals" to whatever best suits their needs at a particular time . this sounds like it applies to more than just a few serial cheaters ( and perhaps to some serial other men/women as well)

 

 

You are right FP! One of the HARDEST things I had to realize during my process of healing, is that I had fallen in love with a sociopath. Not one who was the serial killer that we think of (as you say), but one who held down a job, believed in God, and seemed like a good man, and the perfect man for me. He can read ppl better than anyone I have ever met, and can figure out exactly what it is they are needing, and use it.

 

I can not believe that I fell for someone like this. I absolutely was agaisnt having A's, very legalistic about it. Always felt if someone wanted to "run around" they should be single. I am educated, hold a good job, a good mom, and for every single other aspect of my life very honest....THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN TO PPL LIKE THIS!!! Right???? Oh yes, it does. I was so absolutely blinded by this man, that I could not see anything. And it makes me sick.

 

I thank God that I FINALLY saw things for what they are. And I know now that he was saving me from a horrible life. Unanswered prayers are sometimes blessings in disquise.

[Gentlegirl2]

Maybe naive, but also some women make bad

 

choices during a vulnerable time in their lives, seeking that quick external validation that an A often offers, while an open and honest R usually takes more time. Could be during an illness, a divorce, the death of someone close,... That seems to be a fairly common scenario for getting involved with a MM, and in some cases with a serial cheater. Still something there for them to look into, learn from, and do the work needed to change, since so many other women deal with life's tragedies and stresses in more honest and healthy ways.

 

That's exactly right!.... read my post on the "Why did you do it?" thread.

 

GG

[NoIDidn't]

Maybe naive, but also some women make bad choices during a vulnerable time in their lives, seeking that quick external validation that an A often offers, while an open and honest R usually takes more time. Could be during an illness, a divorce, the death of someone close,... That seems to be a fairly common scenario for getting involved with a MM, and in some cases with a serial cheater. Still something there for them to look into, learn from, and do the work needed to change, since so many other women deal with life's tragedies and stresses in more honest and healthy ways.

 

This is true for when many people get into affairs - men or women/married or single. Especially after a divorce or death of a loved one.

 

Its one of the main reasons that the betrayed and others don't believe it was "love" and call it "fog". And these reasons have been proven by the research done despite those that still disagree.

 

Unfortunately, its human behavior to make matters worst (the grief becomes too much and they want to escape it) before they we realize we need to be better (work on healing, stop the affair or other self-destructive behaviors).