GoodOnPaper Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Can you (or anyone else reading this) elaborate on initial "nice guy" symptoms upon meeting an attractive girl say, in a bar or at a book store or whatever? The "nice guy" label is used as shorthand to describe qualities that run along the lines of unassertive, over-sensitive, over-analytical, over-eager to please, etc. that are driven by self-limiting beliefs. Being a little nervous around a girl usually doesn't fall under this heading. Plus, you don't feel that you are intimidated by attractive women -- that's a good sign. My knee-jerk reaction upon seeing a woman I'm physically attracted to is to assume that there are probably a million other guys who feel the same way and I'd rather not be one more chump in a crowd competing for her attention -- that's a "nice guy" symptom.
ScreamingTrees Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) The "nice guy" label is used as shorthand to describe qualities that run along the lines of unassertive, over-sensitive, over-analytical, over-eager to please, etc. that are driven by self-limiting beliefs. Being a little nervous around a girl usually doesn't fall under this heading. Plus, you don't feel that you are intimidated by attractive women -- that's a good sign. My knee-jerk reaction upon seeing a woman I'm physically attracted to is to assume that there are probably a million other guys who feel the same way and I'd rather not be one more chump in a crowd competing for her attention -- that's a "nice guy" symptom. I see. Well, we can choose to be in control of these thoughts. At the end of the day, who cares? Not sure if that really is your knee-jerk reaction or just written from the point of view of someone who feels that way, but it certainly doesn't have to be, dude.. A majority of guys out there are probably thinking the same thing, and she might not have a lot of pursuers because of that. I'm not being very aggressive at this point in my life, but that's because I think that things'll be better for that sort of stuff in another year or so, I might be in a better place financially and able to go out and meet new people. Right now I'm sort of laying low and doing my thing.. I've went online to purposely say the dumbest, craziest **** I possibly could on OKcupid, knowing that it'd lead nowhere. It was a good exercise in humility, and it left me feeling less anxious about the whole ordeal because it obviously didn't affect me.. Besides some random girls 50+ miles away thinking there's some screws loose. (Lots of these same girls seemed to have some sort of issue anyway, go figure) Might be different in real life, but I doubt there's much of a difference in how difficult it is. The more I hype myself up, the easier I visualize/feel it to be. I'd say my biggest problem would be coming OFF as too "nice" in the beginning - my idea of nice is probably a very subtle, relaxed version of yours - but the opposite is really the case, even if I did come off as "nice" (it wouldn't be out of my actions, just my demeanor), because I could never see myself going out of my way for someone with whom there's nothing of substance - I don't put the pink on the pedestal. The only thing that might describe me out of those terms would be "unassertive" - and that's really just someone's subjective observation, because they don't know what I'm thinking, and someone who may be wondering why I'm not approaching isn't realizing that I'm not attracted to them or feel it to be ultimately worth my time and effort which could be better spent elsewhere. I also feel as though a majority of girls in my area are of the generic/boring twilight/harry potter/eat love pray/whatever guido variety and share nothing in common with me. Why would I hit on a girl only to realize this a week later? While the outside is important, what's inside will seperate one attractive girl from the other. If the inside is yucky, I'm gone. I don't want a project-girl, I want a girl who's got her **** together and didn't need to screw up horribly before getting it right. Edited March 23, 2012 by ScreamingTrees
Sanman Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 I would agree with what Jane2011 is saying. I did not read the responses in detail, but I find that it is important that men walk the fine line between emotionally available and too vulnerable. Women do not find vulnerability attractive men. Most women want the romance and the ability to tell her you love her. However, they also want the ability to take charge of a situation and not show emotion in certain situations. If something bad is happening, they want the man to be the reassuring voice that lets them know it is going to be alright. However, they also want someone emotionally open enough to communicate and listen them about their feelings. Is this always fair to men? No, since if a man were to open up emotionally and talk too much about his own vulnerability and fears, it could be taken as a turn off. That is life I guess.
Eddie Edirol Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Can you (or anyone else reading this) elaborate on initial "nice guy" symptoms upon meeting an attractive girl say, in a bar or at a book store or whatever? What exactly would make her assume that I would let her walk all over me despite not even being in a situation where she could test the waters? In addition to what was already said, you have to not NEED to get approval from the woman you are approaching. Some guys try to impress them, shows need, which is an immediate weakness. The successful guys dont need the approach to be successful, as if they have someone waiting for them at home. Part of the confidence, is knowing you dont need to convince her, that she needs to convince you.
Jeremy87 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 In addition to what was already said, you have to not NEED to get approval from the woman you are approaching. Some guys try to impress them, shows need, which is an immediate weakness. The successful guys dont need the approach to be successful, as if they have someone waiting for them at home. Part of the confidence, is knowing you dont need to convince her, that she needs to convince you. If you approch em right you can **** anyone
Jane2011 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 These are some criteria that a friend of mine and I, a couple years or so ago, came up with that make a woman attracted to a guy: 1) He’s physically attractive, probably both objectively and subjectively, but at least subjectively. 2) Attractive demeanor/manner/surface personality (this includes the way he walks, talks, laughs, moves, gestures, etc., plus facial expressions, etc. You could also say it includes intelligence because if you like the way a guy talks, he’s probably speaking at an intelligence-level that works for you. It doesn’t always include intelligence/intellect, though, because some men can have a very attractive demeanor, speak reasonably well, but still not be terribly smart, when you get down to it) 3) He has things (interests, personal characteristics, lifestyle, friends, hobbies, goals, etc.) that you want in your life somehow (even if you never consciously thought so); or, if it’s personal characteristics, things you need more of, that you would like to somehow absorb from him by association. You sense his whole essence and life would add to yours in the sense that he’d take you places you kind of want to go to. And by “places,” I don’t mean restaurants and plays or actual places, but rather, that being with him would put you in situations and move you in a life direction that you’re interested in going in. I think this is where relationship-inexperienced men or just inexperienced men fail in general. A woman might think you’re physically attractive and you may have decent mannerisms, etc. But there may be something about the way you live your life now or have lived your life up until now, or your interests, that she, for whatever reason, is “past” or is just not interested in. [i’m glad I’m fleshing this out, because it explains why I’m not attracted to this particular guy who meets 1 and 2, but not 3. He’s good-looking and has a pretty attractive demeanor, but I’m not crazy about his lifestyle, and I don’t think anything about his current life is the direction in which I want to move mine.] Other men sometimes seem like they do things that are just not evolved enough. A good example here is that I recently went on a date with a guy who is smart, reasonably good-looking, and nice, but I got the sense that watching movies is a big chunk of his life and what drives him. I don’t want my life moved in a direction of watching movies a lot. I watch movies, but I’m not a movie “buff,” nor do I celebrity-watch. On the date with him, he told me watching The Oscars was like his Christmas every year. I don’t want my life moved in the direction of loving The Oscars. 4) You sense that he doesn’t need you. He wants you and is tender and emotionally kind toward you, but he could also be without you and not fall apart completely. As an extension of this, the amount of power you have over him isn’t grossly disproportionate to the amount of power he has over you. Someone above asked that “emotional weakness” be defined. I don’t think most people can be called “emotionally weak” as an absolute, fixed characteristic of who they are. It’s situational, usually. A guy is emotionally weak to me if I have a lot of power over him and he has only a little over him, and my abundant power over him is made evident in his behavior, words, actions, manner, levels of giving without reciprocation, etc. (In other words, if he is utterly smitten with me but keeps his behavior in check, I don’t see him as weak because he also is strong enough to keep his dignity, despite his emotions). I think most people feel most passionate about a person who is theirs and who is nice and sweet, but about whom they have some small, latent sliver of doubt as to their degree of “possessing” that person emotionally. An emotionally weak guy makes it shamelessly and uncomfortably clear that you “possess” him and have “conquered” him.
Jeremy87 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 These are some criteria that a friend of mine and I, a couple years or so ago, came up with that make a woman attracted to a guy: 1) He’s physically attractive, probably both objectively and subjectively, but at least subjectively. 2) Attractive demeanor/manner/surface personality (this includes the way he walks, talks, laughs, moves, gestures, etc., plus facial expressions, etc. You could also say it includes intelligence because if you like the way a guy talks, he’s probably speaking at an intelligence-level that works for you. It doesn’t always include intelligence/intellect, though, because some men can have a very attractive demeanor, speak reasonably well, but still not be terribly smart, when you get down to it) 3) He has things (interests, personal characteristics, lifestyle, friends, hobbies, goals, etc.) that you want in your life somehow (even if you never consciously thought so); or, if it’s personal characteristics, things you need more of, that you would like to somehow absorb from him by association. You sense his whole essence and life would add to yours in the sense that he’d take you places you kind of want to go to. And by “places,” I don’t mean restaurants and plays or actual places, but rather, that being with him would put you in situations and move you in a life direction that you’re interested in going in. I think this is where relationship-inexperienced men or just inexperienced men fail in general. A woman might think you’re physically attractive and you may have decent mannerisms, etc. But there may be something about the way you live your life now or have lived your life up until now, or your interests, that she, for whatever reason, is “past” or is just not interested in. [i’m glad I’m fleshing this out, because it explains why I’m not attracted to this particular guy who meets 1 and 2, but not 3. He’s good-looking and has a pretty attractive demeanor, but I’m not crazy about his lifestyle, and I don’t think anything about his current life is the direction in which I want to move mine.] Other men sometimes seem like they do things that are just not evolved enough. A good example here is that I recently went on a date with a guy who is smart, reasonably good-looking, and nice, but I got the sense that watching movies is a big chunk of his life and what drives him. I don’t want my life moved in a direction of watching movies a lot. I watch movies, but I’m not a movie “buff,” nor do I celebrity-watch. On the date with him, he told me watching The Oscars was like his Christmas every year. I don’t want my life moved in the direction of loving The Oscars. 4) You sense that he doesn’t need you. He wants you and is tender and emotionally kind toward you, but he could also be without you and not fall apart completely. As an extension of this, the amount of power you have over him isn’t grossly disproportionate to the amount of power he has over you. Someone above asked that “emotional weakness” be defined. I don’t think most people can be called “emotionally weak” as an absolute, fixed characteristic of who they are. It’s situational, usually. A guy is emotionally weak to me if I have a lot of power over him and he has only a little over him, and my abundant power over him is made evident in his behavior, words, actions, manner, levels of giving without reciprocation, etc. (In other words, if he is utterly smitten with me but keeps his behavior in check, I don’t see him as weak because he also is strong enough to keep his dignity, despite his emotions). I think most people feel most passionate about a person who is theirs and who is nice and sweet, but about whom they have some small, latent sliver of doubt as to their degree of “possessing” that person emotionally. An emotionally weak guy makes it shamelessly and uncomfortably clear that you “possess” him and have “conquered” him. i have skillings getting you ladies. i dont read their long lists of must havs. LOL
Woggle Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Just be yourself and if a woman can't accept that too bad. If you can't open around a woman she is not worth being in a relationship with. Without emotional availability a woman is just a FWB as far as I am concerned.
Jane2011 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 i have skillings getting you ladies. i dont read their long lists of must havs. LOL lol, it's not must-haves. It's just an explanation. And I'm sure lots of women would differ. Just something my friend and I thought of... But anyway, if you think women want good-looking guys (which I bet you do) then you automatically agree with some of my list.
Jane2011 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Oh, and about my list. The four things I listed (with explanation) are what create a high level of attraction. A woman can date a guy who only meets a couple of the things just because she wants to date him and he likes her. But it's those types of relationships where she's not highly smitten. If something is missing, it might be one of those things I listed.
Jeremy87 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 lol, it's not must-haves. It's just an explanation. And I'm sure lots of women would differ. Just something my friend and I thought of... But anyway, if you think women want good-looking guys (which I bet you do) then you automatically agree with some of my list. i didn't read most of your list. good looking but skills of charm and know how in bed.
Jeremy87 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Oh, and about my list. The four things I listed (with explanation) are what create a high level of attraction. A woman can date a guy who only meets a couple of the things just because she wants to date him and he likes her. But it's those types of relationships where she's not highly smitten. If something is missing, it might be one of those things I listed. I've bedded women even when i didnt me any of their criteria
Jeremy87 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Just be yourself and if a woman can't accept that too bad. If you can't open around a woman she is not worth being in a relationship with. Without emotional availability a woman is just a FWB as far as I am concerned. be yourself LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Jane2011 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 I've bedded women even when i didnt me any of their criteria Okay, fine. I don't know why you keep saying things. I get it. You don't think anything women say about what they want is actually what they want. I get it x 10. Happy?
Jeremy87 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Okay, fine. I don't know why you keep saying things. I get it. You don't think anything women say about what they want is actually what they want. I get it x 10. Happy? I'm happy I'm getting laid this weekend. you women are funny funny. theres no thought process to women. they are simple minded.
Jeremy87 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Honestly? Women want a man to focus on THEM. Its all about THEM. That's why they like the quiet guy so they can do all the talking. And the quiet guy pretends to listen. I'm laughing so hard at this that I just spit out the hamburger I was eating. LOLOLOLOL
Author DepressedinDenver Posted March 23, 2012 Author Posted March 23, 2012 4) You sense that he doesn’t need you. He wants you and is tender and emotionally kind toward you, but he could also be without you and not fall apart completely. As an extension of this, the amount of power you have over him isn’t grossly disproportionate to the amount of power he has over you. Someone above asked that “emotional weakness” be defined. I don’t think most people can be called “emotionally weak” as an absolute, fixed characteristic of who they are. It’s situational, usually. A guy is emotionally weak to me if I have a lot of power over him and he has only a little over him, and my abundant power over him is made evident in his behavior, words, actions, manner, levels of giving without reciprocation, etc. (In other words, if he is utterly smitten with me but keeps his behavior in check, I don’t see him as weak because he also is strong enough to keep his dignity, despite his emotions). I think most people feel most passionate about a person who is theirs and who is nice and sweet, but about whom they have some small, latent sliver of doubt as to their degree of “possessing” that person emotionally. An emotionally weak guy makes it shamelessly and uncomfortably clear that you “possess” him and have “conquered” him. I fear number 4. Lol. I mean I don't consider myself whipped with women by any means but I am an emotional person. I also don't mean like easily angered or its easy for me to cry but I mean in the sense that if there is a problem I am not one who can be a rock in the beginning. I can after awhile but at first I have to dwell on that. Maybe it is a problem. Buttt I don't like that we guys have to be a rock at all times. Especially if our SOs are making the problems, It is just not always gonna happen.
Jane2011 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Also, I agree that people need to just be themselves. A woman liking your looks and your demeanor/surface mannerisms is completely subjective. You can't create a certain demeanor that is going to be attractive to all or even most women. You just have to be who you are, for the most part, and focus on women who are interested in your looks/overall manner. I meant my list as a way to explain, potentially, why a woman is not attracted to you. It might be one of those things I mentioned that you are lacking (to her). And for women, it's meant as an explanation of things that might be creating your high-level of attraction, or an explanation of why something's not 100% with a guy you do like (but maybe not enough). In my life, when I've been highly attracted to a guy, all those things were met. # 3 is especially significant to me, I think. I'm not a social climber at all, nor a gold-digger (so many of my past boyfriends have had little money), but I've always been most attracted to guys who I thought were at least going to keep me in the world I was already in or, even better, take me to a new world that I was interested in, certainly not to those who I felt I was "past" in some way. Edited March 23, 2012 by Jane2011
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