DepressedinDenver Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I know there have been an influx of trolls with a bunch of spewing towards women. This will not be one of them but it certainly will be about the women I have known. Maybe if both sexes were not bat**** crazy we wouldn't have all these damn threads. Anyway I am a newly divorced guy and have been dating a new girl for months now. I was'nt fully divorced when we met and I also had problems trusting women again so we started off veryyy slow. I was quite cold and aloof but I think that helped me with her. Eventually when I became officially divorced we celebrated and got closer. I was able to become myself and be all sweet and romantic and I thought she liked it... Until last week. Where she told me there were too many feelings... I kinda laughed it off because I thought women were ok with feelings. Um no apparently not. She went on to say that she needs me more like I was at the beginning. Distant. This got me thinking that this is probably why things did not work out with my wife who cheated on me. I am a romantic dude. I mean not 24/7 but a lot of the time I just like to be positive and show the love and feel the love...and then she left me for an emotionally unavailable man who just wanted her for sex. So I mean I do not know what to do but I really must ask...Are women more and more not wanting real feelings? Can you all not handle real feelings and emotions so you all need and turn to the emotionally unavailable guys?
fortyninethousand322 Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 People want what they think they can't get, and they like a challenge. Act like you don't care and women will be crawling all over you.
Author DepressedinDenver Posted March 22, 2012 Author Posted March 22, 2012 People want what they think they can't get, and they like a challenge.Act like you don't care and women will be crawling all over you. Yeah I know. But I reallt do not want women all over me. I just want one woman. Im not after a bunch of random blah sex. Sigh. I just do not know. What a world. What a world.
bac Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 So I mean I do not know what to do but I really must ask...Are women more and more not wanting real feelings? Can you all not handle real feelings and emotions so you all need and turn to the emotionally unavailable guys? I want a guy who is emotionally available. I do not like talking about love and stuff like that only if I have a strong belief that he is a player who is not sincere. And, I do not like that if I believe that he is a bipolar therefore his feelings are just ups and delusions. 1
Jeremy87 Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I know there have been an influx of trolls with a bunch of spewing towards women. This will not be one of them but it certainly will be about the women I have known. Maybe if both sexes were not bat**** crazy we wouldn't have all these damn threads. Anyway I am a newly divorced guy and have been dating a new girl for months now. I was'nt fully divorced when we met and I also had problems trusting women again so we started off veryyy slow. I was quite cold and aloof but I think that helped me with her. Eventually when I became officially divorced we celebrated and got closer. I was able to become myself and be all sweet and romantic and I thought she liked it... Until last week. Where she told me there were too many feelings... I kinda laughed it off because I thought women were ok with feelings. Um no apparently not. She went on to say that she needs me more like I was at the beginning. Distant. This got me thinking that this is probably why things did not work out with my wife who cheated on me. I am a romantic dude. I mean not 24/7 but a lot of the time I just like to be positive and show the love and feel the love...and then she left me for an emotionally unavailable man who just wanted her for sex. So I mean I do not know what to do but I really must ask...Are women more and more not wanting real feelings? Can you all not handle real feelings and emotions so you all need and turn to the emotionally unavailable guys? your typical average women. women say men should have emotion and feelings but it isnt what they mean. up is down and down is up to women.
Jeremy87 Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 People want what they think they can't get, and they like a challenge. Act like you don't care and women will be crawling all over you. they do and you have to play things right with em. A slip up and its all over. How do you avoid slip ups? experience.
blueskyday Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Please don't change who you are! In the way you describe yourself, you are the kind of man I want. I don't think healthy women want an emotionally distant man. I think they want connection, as you do. An unhealthy person wants distance, not connection. If you act distant, you will attract the wrong kind of person. If you are your romantic self, you will find a woman who appreciates that. Trust me. Don't listen to anyone who is telling you how to run some kind of game. I get the same advice, just flipped because I'm a woman. All I've ever gotten out of acting casual and distant are relationships with emotionally distant men who are good to go with that low level of commitment....No thanks... A strong independent woman will be able to handle your emotions, and will actually seek out a connection where you two can share your thoughts and feelings. Don't settle for anything less. Remember your marriage and what you DON"T want. That will help you focus on what you do want. That said, just start off easy with women. Let them know up front, while you are enjoying getting to know each other, that you are a relationship guy who has a romantic side. Slowly go out on dates, be fun, share who you are you, and test the waters with the other person. People will vary quite a bit on how close of a connection they want with another person. Watch out for someone who doesn't share their feelings about things, or doesn't want to get to know your inner life very deeply. Forget any woman who doesn't want a progression of closeness and intimacy. That's your exit cue. Those kinds of women may want a "challenge," which is a fancy way of saying they aren't ready for a healthy relationship with intimacy. Good relationships are a combination of personal independence and interdependence. Find someone who is on the same page with you about romance and how close you two are. Alone time is important, and this need can be communicated and negotiated. But, if one wants distance and alone time too much, and the other wants more of a shared life, then there is a conflict. Just find someone with whom you can have fun and talk with, who wants to grow with you, who can share who she is, and who wants to know you on a deeper level. Edited March 22, 2012 by blueskyday
Author DepressedinDenver Posted March 22, 2012 Author Posted March 22, 2012 Please don't change who you are! In the way you describe yourself, you are the kind of man I want. I don't think healthy women want an emotionally distant man. I think they want connection, as you do. An unhealthy person wants distance, not connection. If you act distant, you will attract the wrong kind of person. If you are your romantic self, you will find a woman who appreciates that. Trust me. Don't listen to anyone who is telling you how to run some kind of game. I get the same advice, just flipped because I'm a woman. All I've ever gotten out of acting casual and distant are relationships with emotionally distant men who are good to go with that low level of commitment....No thanks... A strong independent woman will be able to handle your emotions, and will actually seek out a connection where you two can share your thoughts and feelings. Don't settle for anything less. Remember your marriage and what you DON"T want. That will help you focus on what you do want. That said, just start off easy with women. Let them know up front, while you are enjoying getting to know each other, that you are a relationship guy who has a romantic side. Slowly go out on dates, be fun, share who you are you, and test the waters with the other person. People will vary quite a bit on how close of a connection they want with another person. Watch out for someone who doesn't share their feelings about things, or doesn't want to get to know your inner life very deeply. Forget any woman who doesn't want a progression of closeness and intimacy. That's your exit cue. Those kinds of women may want a "challenge," which is a fancy way of saying they aren't ready for a healthy relationship with intimacy. Good relationships are a combination of personal independence and interdependence. Find someone who is on the same page with you about romance and how close you two are. Alone time is important, and this need can be communicated and negotiated. But, if one wants distance and alone time too much, and the other wants more of a shared life, then there is a conflict. Just find someone with whom you can have fun and talk with, who wants to grow with you, who can share who she is, and who wants to know you on a deeper level. Thank you. Thats some good advice.
Jeremy87 Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Please don't change who you are! In the way you describe yourself, you are the kind of man I want. I don't think healthy women want an emotionally distant man. I think they want connection, as you do. An unhealthy person wants distance, not connection. If you act distant, you will attract the wrong kind of person. If you are your romantic self, you will find a woman who appreciates that. Trust me. Don't listen to anyone who is telling you how to run some kind of game. I get the same advice, just flipped because I'm a woman. All I've ever gotten out of acting casual and distant are relationships with emotionally distant men who are good to go with that low level of commitment....No thanks... A strong independent woman will be able to handle your emotions, and will actually seek out a connection where you two can share your thoughts and feelings. Don't settle for anything less. Remember your marriage and what you DON"T want. That will help you focus on what you do want. That said, just start off easy with women. Let them know up front, while you are enjoying getting to know each other, that you are a relationship guy who has a romantic side. Slowly go out on dates, be fun, share who you are you, and test the waters with the other person. People will vary quite a bit on how close of a connection they want with another person. Watch out for someone who doesn't share their feelings about things, or doesn't want to get to know your inner life very deeply. Forget any woman who doesn't want a progression of closeness and intimacy. That's your exit cue. Those kinds of women may want a "challenge," which is a fancy way of saying they aren't ready for a healthy relationship with intimacy. Good relationships are a combination of personal independence and interdependence. Find someone who is on the same page with you about romance and how close you two are. Alone time is important, and this need can be communicated and negotiated. But, if one wants distance and alone time too much, and the other wants more of a shared life, then there is a conflict. Just find someone with whom you can have fun and talk with, who wants to grow with you, who can share who she is, and who wants to know you on a deeper level. he is the kind of man you say you want. i am the kind of man you want.
FitChick Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Please don't change who you are! In the way you describe yourself, you are the kind of man I want. I don't think healthy women want an emotionally distant man. I think they want connection, as you do. An unhealthy person wants distance, not connection. I totally agree.
Feelsgoodman Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 When a woman says "this is the kind of man I want", you should listen carefully and then visualize a man who is the exact opposite of what she describes. If I had a dollar for every girl who ever claimed that she wanted a "nice guy" and yet jumped at every opportunity to spread her legs for a biker or some other assorted criminal, I'd have enough cash to pay off the U.S. national debt. True story.
Jane2011 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 The guys I've liked a lot were very emotionally available. They were just attractive to me and emotionally available as opposed to unattractive to me and emotionally available. So many men think women scorn emotionally availability when they do not. They scorn not being attracted to a guy. I like when a guy is really tender and sweet toward me, but he's also emotionally independent and strong. 1
GoodOnPaper Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 So many men think women scorn emotionally availability when they do not. They scorn not being attracted to a guy. I like when a guy is really tender and sweet toward me, but he's also emotionally independent and strong. In other words -- the only guys who get credit for being emotionally available are the ones with the outside appearance that they aren't . . .
Jane2011 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 In other words -- the only guys who get credit for being emotionally available are the ones with the outside appearance that they aren't . . . No. The ones who get credit are the ones who are emotionally available but not emotionally weak. 1
Jane2011 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Also, I don't know why that's so hard to fathom. I think men want the same thing in a woman. You want someone who treats you nicely and tenderly but who you know, if push came to shove, you could not walk over or greatly disrespect because they wouldn't allow it.
ThaWholigan Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Also, I don't know why that's so hard to fathom. I think men want the same thing in a woman. You want someone who treats you nicely and tenderly but who you know, if push came to shove, you could not walk over or greatly disrespect because they wouldn't allow it. I don't necessarily think it's an emotional issue, I think it's more to do with masculinity more than anything. Masculinity, whether portrayed emotionally or not, is attractive, and guys these days seem to have trouble really converting that energy into something that is attractive to women. This goes beyond emotional availability. I am someone who has had to cultivate a strong emotional identity over the years and am still getting to grips with mine, but I don't attribute my inability to connect with women to my emotional availability. It doesn't make sense to equate that to being attractive in my opinion.
GoodOnPaper Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 You want someone who treats you nicely and tenderly but who you know, if push came to shove, you could not walk over or greatly disrespect because they wouldn't allow it. Certainly the former. I don't think the latter quality is something I've ever intentionally looked for -- and I don't recall any guy (LS or real life) mentioning doing so. However, women seem to be very conscious about this in guys from the get-go. It's always among the first "nice guy" symptoms that the pop psych gurus suggest guys work on eliminating.
Jane2011 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 I don't necessarily think it's an emotional issue, I think it's more to do with masculinity more than anything. Masculinity, whether portrayed emotionally or not, is attractive, and guys these days seem to have trouble really converting that energy into something that is attractive to women. This goes beyond emotional availability. I am someone who has had to cultivate a strong emotional identity over the years and am still getting to grips with mine, but I don't attribute my inability to connect with women to my emotional availability. It doesn't make sense to equate that to being attractive in my opinion. I see what you're saying, but I think my attraction-tendencies really are about underlying emotional strength as opposed to a masculine manner from the guy. I wouldn't go so far as to say that my taste in men is 'unusual', but I might say the kind of guy I like isn't what most women like. I like almost the more 'effete' guy (I mean, I don't think of the guy that way so much as I would think society in general would label him that type compared to other men; there's no way I like a super-girly wimp). In other words, he doesn't have this readily-noticeable masculine demeanor, but he is emotionally strong in the sense that he doesn't need me or he'll die, and he would likely be a very tender guy in 90% of situations but will still strongly stand up for himself, have a backbone, and not put up with gross disrespect from me. And yes, I definitely don't think your or anybody else's emotional availability has anything to do with inability to connect with women. When women are with a guy who seems to be an unavailable jerk type, it's not usually because she likes that type. Often she fell for him when he was quite emotionally available and then he took it away somehow, but she's still somehow hung up on the beginning states when he was straight-up Romeo. Is it that you think you're not masculine enough on the surface? Actually, a friend of mine and I once came up with a formula for what makes a man attractive. If I can think of all the criteria we came up with, I'll list them shortly.
Jane2011 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Certainly the former. I don't think the latter quality is something I've ever intentionally looked for -- and I don't recall any guy (LS or real life) mentioning doing so. However, women seem to be very conscious about this in guys from the get-go. It's always among the first "nice guy" symptoms that the pop psych gurus suggest guys work on eliminating. I'm surprised to hear you say that, though. Maybe men don't say in so many words such things as "I don't want a woman who I could walk all over or who would allow my disrespect," but it would seem it's implied when you (men in general) disdain or tell women they shouldn't put up with guys' disrespect or mistreatment because that's what makes the guys not want a relationship with them. Aren't you implicitly saying "be strong, not pathetic and weak"?
ThaWholigan Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 I see what you're saying, but I think my attraction-tendencies really are about underlying emotional strength as opposed to a masculine manner from the guy. I wouldn't go so far as to say that my taste in men is 'unusual', but I might say the kind of guy I like isn't what most women like. I like almost the more 'effete' guy (I mean, I don't think of the guy that way so much as I would think society in general would label him that type compared to other men; there's no way I like a super-girly wimp). In other words, he doesn't have this readily-noticeable masculine demeanor, but he is emotionally strong in the sense that he doesn't need me or he'll die, and he would likely be a very tender guy in 90% of situations but will still strongly stand up for himself, have a backbone, and not put up with gross disrespect from me. And yes, I definitely don't think your or anybody else's emotional availability has anything to do with inability to connect with women. When women are with a guy who seems to be an unavailable jerk type, it's not usually because she likes that type. Often she fell for him when he was quite emotionally available and then he took it away somehow, but she's still somehow hung up on the beginning states when he was straight-up Romeo. Is it that you think you're not masculine enough on the surface? Actually, a friend of mine and I once came up with a formula for what makes a man attractive. If I can think of all the criteria we came up with, I'll list them shortly. Well masculinity doesn't have to be overt in many cases, but a man in tune with his own emotional cycles is usually seen as masculine, he doesn't have to display typical machismo . Emotional strength is indeed attractive I feel. I understand you perfectly. I feel I am more comfortable with my masculinity now than I ever was before, but I feel I have always had an over-abundance of this energy and was quite afraid of it. I'm starting to like it now . 1
westrock Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 You want someone who treats you nicely and tenderly but who you know, if push came to shove, you could not walk over or greatly disrespect because they wouldn't allow it. Nice guys are good at doing the first part, but are not good at the second part. Bad boys are not good at doing the first part, but they are good at the second part. Emotionally healthy guys are good at doing both. What I think you're talking about is someone who is emotionally aware and sensitive and supportive to their partner's feelings but at the same time has healthy boundaries such that they won't allow her to walk all over him. It's a fine balance to find for many guys. Often times a nice guy thinks he needs to become a bad boy, and wrongly thinks that means he needs to stop acting nicely and tenderly and adopt the negative qualities that bad boys express of not treating the woman nicely and tenderly. But the nice guy is focussing on the wrong part. All a nice guy has to do is develop some healthy boundaries as to what behavior he will and will not accept. When he does that he will find that balance and become a emotionally healthy guy. Interestingly, a bad-boy although attractive at first because of his ability not to allow women to walk over them will have difficulty becoming a emotionally healthy guy because generally if someone doesn't already know how to treat others nicely and tenderly it's not something that can be taught. I think a lot of nice guys struggle with this whole issue because it almost sounds to the guy like women are saying that if the guy would allow it, she would walk all over him (which she doesn't like to do). But instead of exercising her own boundaries and self control, she instead sees him as emotionally weak and unable to not allow it. Knowing that, to these guys it seems women prefer a guy with a strong enough boundary to be able to not allow her to walk all over him -- to a lot of these nice guys, they've only seen this quality in bad-boys. But if a woman is like that, he wonders what that says about her own boundaries and self-control? He thinks that just because one can walk all over someone doesn't mean one should. 1
carhill Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Some women are *attracted* to men who are emotionally unavailable. Want and attraction aren't necessarily the same path. Can someone provide a specific example of what an 'emotionally weak' man is? Also, please describe an example of 'walk all over him'. The way I see it is, if a woman isn't obviously attracted to me, then I accept it without pondering the 'reasons' and move on. I see no reason for or benefit from changing who I am to attract one woman out of billions. If the result is living alone, it is.
Jane2011 Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Nice guys are good at doing the first part, but are not good at the second part. Bad boys are not good at doing the first part, but they are good at the second part. Emotionally healthy guys are good at doing both. What I think you're talking about is someone who is emotionally aware and sensitive and supportive to their partner's feelings but at the same time has healthy boundaries such that they won't allow her to walk all over him. It's a fine balance to find for many guys. Often times a nice guy thinks he needs to become a bad boy, and wrongly thinks that means he needs to stop acting nicely and tenderly and adopt the negative qualities that bad boys express of not treating the woman nicely and tenderly. But the nice guy is focussing on the wrong part. All a nice guy has to do is develop some healthy boundaries as to what behavior he will and will not accept. When he does that he will find that balance and become a emotionally healthy guy. That balance is so important. I feel like I've been really in love with two guys in my life. And both of them were balanced that way. I never get it when guys say that women want emotionally unavailable jerks, 'cause I absolutely love it when a guy I find attractive is all over me emotionally. Obviously, though, a lot of men must be observing attractive women with men who do not treat them so well or who seem emotionally elusive somehow. I think this is attributable to 1) the thing I mentioned above -- that the guy was emotionally available at one time but took it away and now she's hooked on him like so many illicit drugs, based on his initial behavior, and is constantly trying to get that fix again, or possibly 2) though women do like emotional availability, the guy being *extremely* attractive to her trumps that need. It doesn't mean, though, that she doesn't like emotional availability. I think I can give a personal example here. I mentioned that the two men I've really been in love with were very tender and sweet with me. They were, and I loved it. But I was at one time involved with an emotionally unavailable guy for about a year when I was in my mid 20s. I didn't like that he was emotionally unavailable at all. And it wasn't a case of him having been very emotional available in the beginning and then taking it away. He was neutral at the start and it continued as neutral/relatively unavailable throughout the relationship. I think in that case, I simply found him "so my type" as a person (NOT his emotional unavailability, but his looks, his intelligence, his personality, his sense of humor, etc.) that I was into him even though he wasn't sweet and tender with me. In this case, he treated me neither wonderfully nor horribly, but he was "in it" just enough for me to fall for him at first, but then over the course of the relationship was distant. You see, though, how it doesn't indicate that women like emotional unavailability. Sometimes they're just willing to put up with it because the guy's that attractive. Of course, then people would say "but that's the whole reason you found him 'so attractive' at all -- because he was emotionally unavailable." No, it wasn't. It was because he was attractive. If he'd suddenly gone emotionally available on me, I would have loved it. I think a lot of nice guys struggle with this whole issue because it almost sounds to the guy like women are saying that if the guy would allow it, she would walk all over him (which she doesn't like to do). But instead of exercising her own boundaries and self control, she instead sees him as emotionally weak and unable to not allow it. Knowing that, to these guys it seems women prefer a guy with a strong enough boundary to be able to not allow her to walk all over him -- to a lot of these nice guys, they've only seen this quality in bad-boys. But if a woman is like that, he wonders what that says about her own boundaries and self-control? He thinks that just because one can walk all over someone doesn't mean one should. It's true that a person with her own boundaries, self-control, and just sense of decency would not walk over another person even if she could. But here's the thing. Even good people can't help but treat others the way those others are inviting themselves to be treated. Of course, a very good person would mistreat her suitor only so much, because of her fundamental decency, and certainly not as much so as a fundamentally worse person, but it would still happen to some extent. It's no different from how people are with friends and people in general. Those who seem to "subordinate" themselves to you get worse treatment from you than those who don't. A big part of being in love with someone is seeing them as your equal or higher. You have to respect them in order for this to happen. So when women say they don't want a guy they can walk over, they're not saying "Help me not be a bad person. Help me not walk all over you. I can't not walk all over you on my own." They're saying, "Please give me the gift of being able to respect you." Edited March 23, 2012 by Jane2011
Eddie Edirol Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 It's true that a person with her own boundaries, self-control, and just sense of decency would not walk over another person even if she could. But here's the thing. Even good people can't help but treat others the way those others are inviting themselves to be treated. Of course, a very good person would mistreat her suitor only so much, because of her fundamental decency, and certainly not as much so as a fundamentally worse person, but it would still happen to some extent. It's no different from how people are with friends and people in general. Those who seem to "subordinate" themselves to you get worse treatment from you than those who don't. A big part of being in love with someone is seeing them as your equal or higher. You have to respect them in order for this to happen. So when women say they don't want a guy they can walk over, they're not saying "Help me not be a bad person. Help me not walk all over you. I can't not walk all over you on my own." They're saying, "Please give me the gift of being able to respect you." In other words, some people cant help but to test each others boundaries to some degree. Damn shame aint it? But its true, some people have a level of "pushover". People who are a level of 2, shouldnt be paired up with people who are a level of 10 (easiest to pushover). People have to be paired up with their equivalent level of pushover to mutually respect each other.
ScreamingTrees Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Certainly the former. I don't think the latter quality is something I've ever intentionally looked for -- and I don't recall any guy (LS or real life) mentioning doing so. However, women seem to be very conscious about this in guys from the get-go. It's always among the first "nice guy" symptoms that the pop psych gurus suggest guys work on eliminating. Can you (or anyone else reading this) elaborate on initial "nice guy" symptoms upon meeting an attractive girl say, in a bar or at a book store or whatever? Sometimes I might act a bit nervous, but it's a deeply rooted subconscious issue manifested every so often physically. I'm sort of mentally detached from it and frustrated with it, because I'm not really intimidated by a random attractive girl, despite having to fight back (and usually rather unsuccessfully) childish fight or flight ticks.. What exactly would make her assume that I would let her walk all over me despite not even being in a situation where she could test the waters? I would consider myself a balanced sort of guy, not being emotionally unavailable but also being emotionally strong and unable to tolerate bull**** because of a sense of self worth.. I wonder if I've ever given off a nice guy vibe, and it's probably because I can be rather timid and on edge sometimes, I used to be a bit shy and that side of me can pop up every now and then, but I'd never settle for bull**** regardless.
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