mostlyclueless Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Ok, I am going to try to summarize things here and ask for some perspective. I know my partner and I have made some unusual choices, but I hope anyone who chooses to give feedback can be respectful and compassionate, please. We have been dating for almost a year, living together for a few months. Things are very serious, and we have talked a lot about marriage and kids -- he wants kids as soon as possible and would be ready to do it right now. I am not as sure, and recently have been presented with what feels like a deadline. I need to make a firm decision about whether to break up or keep moving forward because of the cohabitation issue. I am only subletting the apartment I used to live in, and still have a lease there. I need to let my housing office know if I will be renewing my lease by April 1. So I feel like I need to make a decision about whether or not to stay in this relationship by then. The main issue is that we are polyamorous and I am not sure if I am able to do it. He has had lots of very serious polyamorous relationships, involving very deep levels of emotional investment, some that went on for many years. I have been in some very lightly polyamorous relationships, which mostly meant that I could do whatever I wanted and my partners just dealt with it. I thought that I was ready for a more "real" poly relationship, where we could both have serious relationships with other people. We went on a few dates with other girls together, and it was all fun and great, and we were both really happy with everything. But eventually my partner got to a point where he was ready to have another secondary partner around on a consistent basis. I was reluctant at first, and then when he found someone it spiraled completely out of control. I was absolutely devastated, crying hysterically every time I was alone, for weeks. I lost weight, couldn't sleep, couldn't get anything done at work. It was so terrible I don't even know how to describe it. So he stopped seeing the other girl. We are working on rebuilding our relationship and coming back stronger. But I know that being poly is an absolute requirement for him. If I can't do it, that's a dealbreaker, and I should walk away from the relationship now. We are extremely compatible, both in terms of the small things, like maintaining a household together and having fun together day to day, but also in terms of our long term goals. We are great at managing our finances together, and communicating openly and honestly. We love each other so much, and I am so happy with our relationship the way it is now. On top of that, I really don't think I am capable of functioning in monogamous relationships. I never felt like myself and I was never completely honest or happy. I know if we broke up I would not try to go back to total monogamy. So I think that is all the important information. Sorry that is so long. If anyone has any advice I would really really like to hear it. Edited March 22, 2012 by mostlyclueless Link to post Share on other sites
Jane2011 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 It's really hard for me to tell how you feel. You were upset because he was in a relationship with another woman. You said you cried and were hysterical, so he ended it with her. But you also say you can't be in monogamous relationships, either... What is your ideal situation with him? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Yare Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 May I ask yo why couldn't you be in a monogamous relationship? Whether with him or someone else..and why can't he? is it about sex? Link to post Share on other sites
Yare Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I'm no one to judge ..we all have issues..but people in those types of relationships may have some serious issues....my opinion don't have to be true:rolleyes: Link to post Share on other sites
Yare Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 If you was hurt cause he got seriously involved with someone else, then you are not really into poly...again my opinion Link to post Share on other sites
Author mostlyclueless Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Jane, I feel really trapped, because both of the things you mentioned are true. I don't really feel like I want to or even can have a monogamous relationship, and I thought that being totally open and poly was what I wanted. And then, when it happened, I completely fell apart and couldn't handle it. Yare, it's hard to explain, but I have never really been able to have monogamous relationships. It just felt completely wrong and awful to me. So I either cheated and ended the relationship, or ended the relationship and moved on. Every time. I don't think monogamy adds anything to relationships, only takes away. Link to post Share on other sites
Jane2011 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I'll reply in about 20 minutes or so. I'm trying to work out but keep starting and stopping to post on this totally addictive message board. Haha. Back soon. Link to post Share on other sites
Jane2011 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Okay, here is my question to you. If you are this sure that you cannot have a monogamous relationship, then the option is polyamory. You and your partner tried it with that girl who made you cry and get hysterical. Is it possible, though, that that particular situation was handled badly and that it's not the existence of another girl that was so bad but that the 'handling' of it wasn't ideal? Is it possible your partner could have another woman but re-structure the way you all interact in a way that would work for you? I suspect, in the situation that I was in, that the girlfriend he had was maybe the way you are. Maybe not as extreme, but definitely feeling tensions about my existence. (Even though that's what she "wanted.") Sometimes people think they want an open relationship, but then when they see their partner with another woman or man, it hurts like hell. Anyway, do you think you and your boyfriend could do things differently to make it more amenable to you? And could you two also make a deal not to get too-too serious with anybody until such time as BOTH of you have another person? A partner's involvement with another person, I imagine, is a lot easier to take when you've got a little action of your own. Link to post Share on other sites
bac Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) It seems that you both are in the stage of experimenting with your sexuality and personal life. You both are not aware of what you really want. You also cannot see a big picture. Having multiple sexual partners is typically great for males but it is not great for most women. In other words, he is more aware of what he really wants than you are. Sure, he wants to have sex with multiple hot women who are totally in love with him and who allow him to be this way. If you are unhappy, you probably are mistaken about what you want in R. If it was the right stuff, you would be very happy. As for kids, kids do not want a dad who has a bunch of women to be in love with. Kids want a dad who loves only their mother and them. Kids want a dad who takes care financially only for them because they do need support and help. Sure, he wants to get married you because it is hard to find a wife who lets her husband to spend his love, money, time and everything else on other hot women while she and her kids would get leftovers. In other words, you can do whatever you want with your own life but it is cruel to do whatever you want with your kids'life. Edited March 22, 2012 by bac Link to post Share on other sites
Jane2011 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Also, you say you are "so happy with the relationship we have now." That means you like being with just him and no one else, right? If you broke up, you'd go polyamorous again (you say), but with him you're content to be with just him. So. It seems like you do want a monogamous, exclusive relationship? Just that it has to be with him...?? I agree with the above poster, in a way, that your boyfriend is getting a lot of freedom. That's why I got out of my situation. I just thought...this is bullsh*t. He gets to have two women and I only have him. I know I could eventually change that (if I ever fell in love with a man who would actually let me have a man besides him - not likely), but I didn't think I wanted to stick around, in the interim which could last forever, for the crazy feelings I was experiencing. Happy, in a way, resentful, in a way. I decided to take away his comfort and cake-eating by taking myself out of the equation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
John Bigboote Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 mostlyclueless, As others have said, it's a matter of figuring out what you want and need. My questions for you would be: why do you think you "freaked out" when your bf brought home a secondary? What was going through your mind at that time? Was it fear that he would leave you? That she was better than you somehow? That you weren't getting enough time/attention? Knowing what was triggered at that moment would be a step closer to addressing it. And what makes you say that you're not suited to monogamy? Why not? What are your feelings, behaviors, and desires that make it unsuitable for you? It's going to be a tough road if in the end you feel that you're nonmonogamous yourself but can't tolerate nonmonogamy in your partner, but not completely impossible. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Here's another blog you might want to read: open marriageOpen Marriageopen relationship I'd forgotten all about it. She has a consulting site for those who want to be poly, she's written a book, and she's also honest about the fact that her marriage broke up. Link to post Share on other sites
make me believe Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 You've been with this guy for LESS THAN A YEAR, moved in after a few months, and brought a third party into the relationship shortly after that? You guys need to SLOW DOWN. You haven't even given yourselves enough time to build a solid foundation on which to open your relationship. Of course you fell apart when he started dating somebody else and forming an emotional connection with her. You guys haven't solidified YOUR connection enough for you to feel secure with him forming a connection with another girl. Yeah, I'm sure the 10 months or whatever that you've been together feels very serious and long-term and you feel very bonded to him.... but the reality is it has NOT been long enough for you to have formed a real commitment and foundation. I think you need to be monogamous for at least a couple of years before you start opening up the relationship. (Also, do YOU get to have other guys on the side or is it just him being with other girls and you being "ok" with his refusal to be monogamous?) I find it pretty concerning that you were hysterical, falling apart, crying, losing weight, not getting your work done, etc, for WEEKS while he happily continued on dating this other girl. He had to have noticed that his "main girl" was miserable, no??? But he kept dating the other one anyway? Hmm.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author mostlyclueless Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 John, thanks for your post. I read your reply on the other poly thread. I guess where I am at right now is that I badly WANT to be able to function in the way you described, and my partner is clearly very able to do it. The only hold up is that I had this massive emotional breakdown. I wish I could pin it on some specific action or fear, even an illogical one. I know that he will never leave me, and she never took away from our time together. She was not really a threat in any way. The closest I can get to a reason for the way I felt is this very nebulous sense that our relationship was secondary not to her, but to polyamory. Like, he wasn't that interested in this girl specifically, but he will ALWAYS be looking. Every girl we ever meet will be a potential sexual partner. And, maybe this is irrational, but I felt weirdly deceived, like he was telling me just enough information to be technically ok and not explicitly lying, but he was constantly downplaying his feelings, his level of interaction, etc. It actually ended (I glossed over this) because I found out about a pretty serious deception that was absolutely unacceptable. I think that still doesn't really get at the core issue but that is as close as I have gotten after months of serious contemplation on the issue. To answer your other questions -- I don't feel suited to monogamy because it always felt like I was trying to figure out some rules to a game that I didn't really want to be playing. For instance, I have a lot of male friends I've had sexual relationships with -- was I supposed to stop talking to them while having a monogamous relationship? Make sure they never flirted with me? Not be in a room alone with them? Monogamy always felt arbitrary and fake and limiting. Does that make sense? Link to post Share on other sites
FitChick Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Sounds no different than friends with benefits. Both scenarios usually end in disaster. Live and learn! Link to post Share on other sites
make me believe Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The closest I can get to a reason for the way I felt is this very nebulous sense that our relationship was secondary not to her, but to polyamory. Like, he wasn't that interested in this girl specifically, but he will ALWAYS be looking. Every girl we ever meet will be a potential sexual partner. And, maybe this is irrational, but I felt weirdly deceived, like he was telling me just enough information to be technically ok and not explicitly lying, but he was constantly downplaying his feelings, his level of interaction, etc. It actually ended (I glossed over this) because I found out about a pretty serious deception that was absolutely unacceptable. I think that still doesn't really get at the core issue but that is as close as I have gotten after months of serious contemplation on the issue. This is all pretty serious information that you should have included before. I don't think your boyfriend is cut out for ANY type of relationship, monogamous or polyamorous. If anything, in a poly relationship he needs to be even more considerate of your feelings, not deceptive, etc. This all just sounds like a big mess to me. Especially since you haven't even been together for a year. So much drama, confusion, hurt feelings, deception... you have to know this isn't normal in a healthy relationship, right?? Based on what you said here and since you have gotten the feeling that your R is second to polyamory, you're probably right, honestly. Your bf would probably be happy settling for any girl who was willing to let him to fk other girls on the side. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Jane2011 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 mostlyclueless, What was his deception? Link to post Share on other sites
John Bigboote Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yeah, I agree with Make Me Believe. If he's been deceptive in the past, I think a freakout is natural. Relationships take trust, and he hasn't earned yours. They take empathy, and he doesn't seem to have much for you. He's unwilling to wait for those bonds of loyalty and trust between you to form before he brings someone serious home. I think maybe your problem is more this dude than relationship mode. To answer your other questions -- I don't feel suited to monogamy because it always felt like I was trying to figure out some rules to a game that I didn't really want to be playing. For instance, I have a lot of male friends I've had sexual relationships with -- was I supposed to stop talking to them while having a monogamous relationship? Make sure they never flirted with me? Not be in a room alone with them? Monogamy always felt arbitrary and fake and limiting. Does that make sense? Total sense. That's the way I feel about it. Do you notice there's a theme here? You don't like your BF's version of poly because you feel he's putting polyamory above you as a person. You don't like monogamy because it does the same thing by placing relationship mode above relationships. You clearly need someone who's going to love you for you and not going to worry too much about whether your relationship is going to be mono/poly/whatever and just allow what happens naturally to happen. That is not this dude. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
John Bigboote Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Sounds no different than friends with benefits. Both scenarios usually end in disaster. And the "success rate" for monogamy is... what again? I mean, with the divorce rate upwards of 50% and each marriage requiring the players to cycle through what, maybe 5 lesser relationships on average before "settling down," I'm estimating... 10%? Look to your own house. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mostlyclueless Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Let me try to address each of the issues you brought up. When my partner's last serious relationship ended (after 12 years) they had done a lot of counseling. Their counselor advised that the best way to handle a poly relationship is for it to start off that way, rather than to start monogamous and try to transition into poly. So that was why we started dating other people relatively early in the relationship. Having been through the experience that we had, I am inclined to agree that building a strong primary foundation FIRST over a number of years is probably a more stable and less traumatic system. But in general, I think it is very problematic to go into any relationship assuming that your feelings or behaviors are going to change -- to assume that what is difficult now (jealousy and trust issues) will become meaningfully less difficult later. It might happen. But then again it might not. So it seems risky to bank on it. I described my feelings about the situation as they were at the time they happened, and I appreciate the validation about them, but let's not assume that I was correct. I felt like he prioritized being poly over me -- but when I asked him to stop, he immediately stopped. Even before that, when I asked for other things (meeting her, spending time with her one on one), I got everything I asked for without argument. And -- this was important to my thought process -- we had many conversations early in the relationship establishing that we both wanted a polyamorous relationship -- I was the one who found myself unable to hold up my end of it. So to accuse him of lacking empathy etc. does not seem quite accurate to me. The deception is certainly a big issue. But it is also a matter of perspective. My partner felt like he was being 100% open and disclosing everything, and that my expectations for disclosure were much, much higher than in previous (happy, healthy) relationships he had been in. So there are always two sides -- I hope I have accurately represented his, here. Link to post Share on other sites
John Bigboote Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I described my feelings about the situation as they were at the time they happened, and I appreciate the validation about them, but let's not assume that I was correct. Let's not assume that you were wrong, either. Certainly, he neglected you enough for you to feel neglected, whatever that threshold might be for you. That he stopped when you asked him to stop, etc., isn't evidence one way or the other, since a person who prioritizes poly over you personally would also do those things, since those are things that poly culture expects him to do. But if my saying he lacks sufficient empathy sounds wrong to you, then it probably is. If the question is simply whether you personally are unsuited to poly because you freaked out, I think the answer to that is squarely no, since no one can anticipate beforehand how they're going to feel about something, and you still haven't freaked out when presented with this situation by someone whom you don't feel you've been mislead and deceived by at some point. Maybe there's an issue here between casual and serious dating of secondaries. You described your problem with monogamy in terms of the ease of intimacy that you don't want to lose with your friends, not in terms of always needing or seeking out new romantic partners. So perhaps the problem here is that he is seeking real romantic partners, whereas your goal is more about maintaining intimacy with friends. Does that sound more on target? Link to post Share on other sites
bac Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Jane, I feel really trapped, because both of the things you mentioned are true. I don't really feel like I want to or even can have a monogamous relationship, and I thought that being totally open and poly was what I wanted. And then, when it happened, I completely fell apart and couldn't handle it. Yare, it's hard to explain, but I have never really been able to have monogamous relationships. It just felt completely wrong and awful to me. So I either cheated and ended the relationship, or ended the relationship and moved on. Every time. I don't think monogamy adds anything to relationships, only takes away. If you really think this way, it is all about you. There is something in you that made you believe in the stuff. You are very different then other women. There should be something that made you so different. For example, your parents, your looks, your personality, your emotional and physical health. Link to post Share on other sites
PlumPrincess Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Being jealous when your partner is seeing someone else as well, but not wanting to be in a monogamous relationship - is that not like having one's cake and eating it? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author mostlyclueless Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 John (and others), let me say first that I really appreciate you taking the time to talk this through with me. I have not really had anyone I could talk to who was able to understand, and this has already been really helpful. Although I haven't discussed it in these terms, I think the critical issue for me is my level of involvement. If I am involved, it's something we're doing together, and it's part of the "us" relationship unit. But when it became something he was doing on his own -- whether I liked it or not -- then I felt like the "us" unit almost didn't matter/exist, if that makes sense at all. I think the casual/serious issue is probably relevant too. The dates we have gone on together have been pretty casual, and those were fun, great experiences. I do not know how well I would handle it if they became serious. Link to post Share on other sites
bac Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Let me try to address each of the issues you brought up. And -- this was important to my thought process -- we had many conversations early in the relationship establishing that we both wanted a polyamorous relationship -- I was the one who found myself unable to hold up my end of it. So to accuse him of lacking empathy etc. does not seem quite accurate to me. If you support polygamy, I assume you should bring a new hot male to your place and enjoy sex with him in front of your BF. I see no point in supporting polygamy, if your BF brings a hot girl for sex with her while you are alone and depressed. Link to post Share on other sites
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