carhill Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 They meet alone for dinner & drinks, and definitely discuss his private and intimate issues IMO, inappropriate unless both spouses/partners are disclosed as to the interactions and content. If other than with spousal/partner approval, affair. If undisclosed, cheating. Sound harsh? Maybe it is. Best way to know? Ask spouse or partner. They have the right answers.
Author sad puppy Posted March 23, 2012 Author Posted March 23, 2012 IMO, inappropriate unless both spouses/partners are disclosed as to the interactions and content. If other than with spousal/partner approval, affair. If undisclosed, cheating. Sound harsh? Maybe it is. Best way to know? Ask spouse or partner. They have the right answers. Assuming the spouse knows of the interactions/dinners, on that level it's legit, but if the guy is sharing all his private relationship details, that to me, is where it goes off the rails. I think the emotional details & private painful/intimate issues need to be honored within the primary relationship. I think there needs to be a coocoon around the primary relationship for it to be safe and trusting. I believe, once another person is brought into the coocoon, that shroud of trust and intimacy is broken. I also wonder how many married couples have "stated rules" v. just knowing internally, without discussion, what appropriate boundaries are? Seems to me there should be an internal compass that one would would not feel the need to go outside and start sharing their private marital details. Or is it just a question of personal privacy? Some people share it all with whoever happens to be there v. some maintain the highest level of privacy about their emotional life? 1
freestyle Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 How was she messing with you? And I agree he was playing the "woe is me" card - not attractive, sort of manipulative as a ploy for attention. Sorry for my delayed response. I started writing a response, which turned into a very long vent. It also triggered a lot of anger & painful memories, when I look back. Let's see if I can pare it down to the nuts & bolts. In my story, the OW was a long-standing friend of my SO's, of over a decade. I had no suspicions about her, I wasn't upset about him having a female friend (I naively thought it was *cool*) In a nutshell--she played a lot of head games with me--she pretended to be my friend. (and tried to maneuver me into speaking ill of my SO)She also tried to convince me that he *didn't really love me* She knew which buttons to push, because he had discussed our relationship with her. I didn't take the bait.When I failed to follow her "script"--and react as she had predicted--- her demeanor towards me was..........less than pleasant. Ahem. (but only when my SO was out of earshot) She even stooped to the level of trash-talking my SO, trying to scare me off.I was then put in a very uncomfortable position, wondering whether or not to tell him that she dissed him behind his back.... This was entirely unsolicited on my part--I would've never crossed that line with one of his friends (trying to milk them for info)(putting them on the spot) I wasn't even certain that she was trying to mislead me, until I stumbled across a mushy note she'd written him (which blatantly contradicted all the negative things she'd said to me about him....) It was kind of like being back in junior high again..........sheesh...
analystfromhell Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 I also apologize for thread-jacking. What I meant to say is that an EA starts/is defined by a secret meeting and friends- those who your spouse deliberately does not tell you about or who they talk around. It's not the meeting or the friendship which would be an issue at all to me- but secrecy, deceit or a lie. When that starts, your spouse has left the marriage to some extent. It might be (according to them) that they are afraid of your reaction- a deflection device or indicative of larger issues IMHO. An EA starts with secrecy and builds from there. 1
Author sad puppy Posted March 23, 2012 Author Posted March 23, 2012 Sorry for my delayed response. I started writing a response, which turned into a very long vent. It also triggered a lot of anger & painful memories, when I look back. Let's see if I can pare it down to the nuts & bolts. In my story, the OW was a long-standing friend of my SO's, of over a decade. I had no suspicions about her, I wasn't upset about him having a female friend (I naively thought it was *cool*) In a nutshell--she played a lot of head games with me--she pretended to be my friend. (and tried to maneuver me into speaking ill of my SO)She also tried to convince me that he *didn't really love me* She knew which buttons to push, because he had discussed our relationship with her. I didn't take the bait.When I failed to follow her "script"--and react as she had predicted--- her demeanor towards me was..........less than pleasant. Ahem. (but only when my SO was out of earshot) She even stooped to the level of trash-talking my SO, trying to scare me off.I was then put in a very uncomfortable position, wondering whether or not to tell him that she dissed him behind his back.... This was entirely unsolicited on my part--I would've never crossed that line with one of his friends (trying to milk them for info)(putting them on the spot) I wasn't even certain that she was trying to mislead me, until I stumbled across a mushy note she'd written him (which blatantly contradicted all the negative things she'd said to me about him....) It was kind of like being back in junior high again..........sheesh... Sounds like she had set her sights on your SO a long time ago (she was probably bummed when you two got together) and was getting involved with both of you, trying to throw a wrench into the plan. Did your SO ever catch on to what she doing, how she was trying to undermine your relationship? Her behavior sounds bizarre, beyond jealousy.
freestyle Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Sounds like she had set her sights on your SO a long time ago (she was probably bummed when you two got together) and was getting involved with both of you, trying to throw a wrench into the plan. Did your SO ever catch on to what she doing, how she was trying to undermine your relationship? Her behavior sounds bizarre, beyond jealousy. I suspect you're right, as far as her having her sights set on him. I didn't even meet her until he & I had been together for a full year. She started contacting him regularly when she went through a break-up of a long-term relationship she'd been in. (cough, cough--) When I finally told him how she'd behaved towards me in his absence, he was shocked. And he accused me of 'reading too much into it' and overreacting--at first. He didn't want to face the fact that someone he viewed as a close friend would try to sabotage his relationship. I almost left him because of that. The light bulb came on for him, when I figured out it was a repeating pattern . He had told me about getting angry with his exgf,(post-breakup) because: "it had gotten back to him" that his exgf had said ,"XYZ.........." about him". He told me he'd had a meltdown, upon hearing that. I asked him. "How did it *get back to you*?" He said, "Oh, well, ***** told me." (the friend I had met) Turns out the female friend I'd met was supposedly good friends with his exgf. Who must have felt safe confiding her relationship issues in my SO's female friend. (whoops) Yep, the wannabee OW tried to play both ends against the middle--potraying herself as a loyal friend to both sides. I pointed out to my SO that his friend tried to do the same thing with me, except I sniffed her out. So, she tried to play both of us, for her own ends. Yep, it's the kind of thing you see in soap operas, or movies. I never expected I would have to deal that kind of nonsense as an adult. I know my story isn't the norm--nor do I paint all OW/OM with the same brush--I just had the misfortune of having to deal with one of the predatory types. It was bizarre---it really was a mind f*ck. Machievellian, even. I was incredulous, (and insulted) that she actually expected me to fall for her machinations. Of course, she was talking down to me, as if I was an impossibly slow-witted child who'd just fallen off the turnip truck.( I was a president's list student in college--I've got a couple of brain cells left) So maybe she really expected her attempted sabotage to work. At least--- my SO learned a valuable lesson about keeping relationship issues WITHIN the boundaries of the relationship. And that opposite sex friendships need to have concrete, etched in stone, boundaries.
Author sad puppy Posted March 23, 2012 Author Posted March 23, 2012 Freestyle, thanks for posting. She sounds demented, and that she was after your SO for a loonnngggggg time. Glad to hear your SO learned the boundaries. We never think a "friend" would be trying to harm us, or be devious, or have ulterior motives. All it takes is one bad experience to learn those hard lessons. Moving forward, nothing looks the same. I hope that demented predator is gone for good. You'd think she knew that after his ex gf, he then was with you, passing her by completely, that he wasn't interested in her at all, romantically. Some people are just plain toxic and jealous.
freestyle Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 Freestyle, thanks for posting. She sounds demented, and that she was after your SO for a loonnngggggg time. Glad to hear your SO learned the boundaries. We never think a "friend" would be trying to harm us, or be devious, or have ulterior motives. All it takes is one bad experience to learn those hard lessons. Moving forward, nothing looks the same. I hope that demented predator is gone for good. You'd think she knew that after his ex gf, he then was with you, passing her by completely, that he wasn't interested in her at all, romantically. Some people are just plain toxic and jealous. Hey, thanks for listening. The part I bolded is what made it so hard to even tell my SO about it. I knew HE would feel betrayed, and foolish for having trusted her with his private thoughts. I also knew I could end up looking like I was insecure, jealous, and/or controlling myself, depending on how I reacted. (which really wasn't the case---I had no problem with him having a female friend) I knew it could turn into a "shoot the messenger" scenario. I was up against 12 years of friendship, and he & I were at a rocky point in our relationship anyways.We were starting to have the "where is this going" talks after being together for a year. My gut told me she was trying to provoke an instant reaction from me, to create a fight between him & me. So I did & said nothing for awhile, until I had time to digest it all, & think it all the way through. (bet that drove her up a wall...) I didn't behave as she most likely predicted. Instead, I went into observer mode, before I told my SO. Yep, people like that ARE toxic. They can do a LOT of damage. Frankly, I think she 's a case study in abnormal psychology. In fact, that experience prompted me to start studying psychology in depth. I was gobsmacked at how arrogant she was with me, but would put on a completely different face around my SO. It was very creepy...... *shudder*
Author sad puppy Posted March 24, 2012 Author Posted March 24, 2012 Wow, Freestyle, you are so patient! I would've been flying off the handle. Sitting back and observing first served you well. Yeah, some people are toxic, it seems like it would take so much energy to conjure up how to play two people off of each other. She was clearly fixated on your SO. You should be proud of yourself for reacting calmly, that shows wisdom. I think I need more of that, lol!!!
freestyle Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 Wow, Freestyle, you are so patient! I would've been flying off the handle. Sitting back and observing first served you well. Yeah, some people are toxic, it seems like it would take so much energy to conjure up how to play two people off of each other. She was clearly fixated on your SO. You should be proud of yourself for reacting calmly, that shows wisdom. I think I need more of that, lol!!! That's the whole thing . I didn't react. I responded. Big difference.As I've since learned. (mostly---I still have to deal with other people in my life who try to push my buttons---and I occasionally react without thinking first.) Part of it was me being too flabbergasted, and stunned to know what to say, or do. It was kind of a deer in headlights thing, more than wisdom. (But thanks for the compliment, all the same..) After the initial shock wore off, the gut instinct to keep my mouth shut, and my eyes open for awhile kicked in.
Author sad puppy Posted March 24, 2012 Author Posted March 24, 2012 So what happened to her, finally? Did you or your SO call her out on her meddlesome behavior? Did he just end the friendship, lock stock and barrel. Did she ever have to account for her actions?
freestyle Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 So, bringing this full circle---I guess my story is one illustration of how divulging private relationship issues outside of the relationship, with someone who could be a potential rival, can do a lot of damage. I didn't go into gory details about the conversation with the OW--but suffice to say, she did use the info she got about me to try to wage psychological warfare on me, and my relationship with my SO.
Author sad puppy Posted March 24, 2012 Author Posted March 24, 2012 But what happened???? Did your SO end the friendship??
freestyle Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 So what happened to her, finally? Did you or your SO call her out on her meddlesome behavior? Did he just end the friendship, lock stock and barrel. Did she ever have to account for her actions? Sorry, I missed this post as I was writing my previous post. He did call her out, and no longer views her as a safe person to confide in. It did take him a while to see the truth, which was frustrating beyond belief. In his own words, "He nuked the friendship" He still works with her, which drives me up a wall, but I'm secure that he chose me. Six years later, we're still together. As far as accounting for her actions--I never got an apology from her. I don't expect I ever will. I'm the mean , controlling girlfriend that "doesn't want him to have any friends..." She hates me--because I eventually did call her out, straight to her face. She tried to play the triangulation game with me again---she actually had the nerve to try to cozy up to me, and say, "You know I've got your back, right?" I lost it. I said the only thing you're doing with my back is maneuvering behind it.And I laid into her for trying to manipulate my opinion of my SO.I called her out for casting aspersions on his character. And while I refrained from yelling, I was so livid, that I was shaking. It felt good afterward, I'd been wanting to give her a piece of my mind for awhile. I just wanted it to be on MY terms, not because I was goaded into it.
Author sad puppy Posted March 24, 2012 Author Posted March 24, 2012 "nuked the friendship", classic!! Oh yeah, I totally get the "mean girlfriend that doesn't want him to have any friends" angle, another classic! Good for you! And congrats on the six years. At least now he knows she's poisonous. Thanks for sharing your tale, I found it to be compelling. With a happy ending.
freestyle Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 "nuked the friendship", classic!! Oh yeah, I totally get the "mean girlfriend that doesn't want him to have any friends" angle, another classic! Good for you! And congrats on the six years. At least now he knows she's poisonous. Thanks for sharing your tale, I found it to be compelling. With a happy ending. Sure---hopefully telling it might create a light bulb moment for someone else reading here,who's in a similar situation. I've heard of this happening with other posters, so it's not completely unique. Or, maybe-- someone else reading here will think twice before they discuss their relationship, or marriage, with a third party. It can potentially create a very unhealthy dynamic. Thanks for the congratulations---he drives me up a wall half the time, but at the core--he's very good to me.It wasn't easy to find a guy willing to treat a woman as an intellectual equal... Hope you have a good rest of your evening---the couch is calling....
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