So do girls like to get it in right away or it's over?

[dasein]

How old are you? You seem much older than me. The marriages/dates resulting today from early sex are as rare and dry as water in the Sahara desert. So, no. Actually, I speak from experience. It's almost always men who bring it up.

 

Marriages -as a whole- are on rapid decline among younger people and have been for some time. I will stick with my anecdotal experience of what real people do and say IME as opposed to what anonymous people post on internet forums, porn forums or even this forum, on this topic at least.

 

Also IME, the few men who -do- bring it up tend to be the player types who get lots of NSA sex on a regular basis. These aren't going to be settling soon for anyone under any circumstances, and the reasons they give could be "she slept with me too fast" one week, "she drives a Volkswagen" the next and "she has a cat" the next.

 

I have young promiscuous friends and they all face they same troubles with their dating.

 

How do the men they sleep with know they are promiscuous? Are they sleeping with every man they go out with on a very early date and TELLIG THEM (give me some credit, I've been around and am not stupid), or more likely, is there even a date at all? and they keep going to clubs, getting drunk, picked up and f-cked, then cry about why he didn't call again? lawlz. If so, here's another pet peeve about the illusory double standard, it discounts lots of other factors that may cause rejection, and rolls them right up in the convenient, comfortable old "men's fault" ball.

 

They could be stupid, drink too much, loud, rude, dress wrong, make poor conversation, boring, or he simply doesn't like you, but when it's brunch time on Sunday, and during review of the random scenester dudes du jour, it all boils down to that ole convenient double standard. Yet somehow you -know- it's because you slept with him too soon and how unfair that is.

 

I mean god forbid men apply the same rational, wise, or irrational, superficial standards to dump women that women apply to dump, ignore or even treat men poorly each and every day of the world.

 

Yeah, what about Beatles, Elvis and Twilight? You know you're talking about groupies here?

 

Yep, and have seen lots of otherwise normal, sensible women turn into starf-ckers in a heartbeat, hell the guy who played crappy guitar around the bonfire in college had em lining up and taking numbers. Once more, I'm not without life experience. If you want to sell the argument that women don't respond disproportionately to wealth, power and celebrity in comparison to men, sell it somewhere else or just dig me up tabloid purchasing stats that show men buy those as much as women. Maybe stats on the audience for the royal wedding or "wealth and glamor" reality shows. Women, in general, average women, are far worse starf-ckers than average men are or will ever be. And no, they don't care -at all- who he banged the night before.

 

Who makes this requirement? For me, men and women are equal.

 

That's interesting, I tend to remember perusing hundreds of puff pieces telling us that women are "better than" men over the last 30 years literally pouring forth from the establishment media, an obnoxious amount of them. Of course, men and women are equal when it's a question of any residual treatment from the past that favors men (whether it's real or made up for political or social gain), but when it's a matter of election year, or sucking the new discriminatory wave of goodies out of the taxpayers, suddenly women are still the underdog in need of protection from bad men and a raft of new affirmative action and entitlements.

 

Men and women are -equal- (or rather are supposed to be) in the respect of receiving equal treatment under the law, outside that? not so much.

 

No, women and men are not "equal" not even close, in how the genders seek and obtain sex respectively. It's not a case of "who has it better" so don't go there, but is a case of an established cultural dynamic that you nor any of the other "double standard clingers" here would even dream of suggesting face to face among your IRL acquaintances... or risk being laughed out of the room.

 

You can't toss it away and only talk about sex on its own!

 

Yes you can, I've clearly defined the two steps of the double standard argument, whether the judgment is being leveled by a man for relationship, dating or even further sex prospects, by another woman for competitive catty purposes, or by an old school mother, father or grandfather, is absolutely irrelevant to whether the double standard exists or not.

 

Time and time again, when this topic comes up here, those who want to cling to the double standard sacred cow bring in all manner of extraneous sidetracks, when the analysis stops at "are women in fact judged differently from men today for their sexual behavior?" and "if so, does that rise to the level of a gender double standard?" There's simply not much wiggle room in those two questions, one is answered "yes or no" and the other is also answered "yes or no." Trying to enlarge the discussion to include marriage, dating, relationships, STDs, desirability of available partners, etc. etc. gets very tiresome to what otherwise is a simple analysis.

 

If you want to start a thread on people's attitudes about promiscuity and dating, promiscuity and marriage, promiscuity and communal standards, promiscuity and STDs, promiscuity and whether people can change their ways, promiscuity and pretty much every other issue, go right ahead.

 

If you want to discuss whether there is a double standard in how men and women are judged for their sexual behavior, then answer "yes or no" to "are women and men in fact judged differently today," and then "yes or no" to does this meet the definition of a double standard?"

 

Anyway, I've had my say here, and my position is clear, until the next time the stale, imaginary double standard argument comes up on these forums. Readers can decide for themselves.

[silvermercy]

Marriages -as a whole- are on rapid decline among younger people and have been for some time. I will stick with my anecdotal experience of what real people do and say IME as opposed to what anonymous people post on internet forums, porn forums or even this forum, on this topic at least.

Yes, marriages are on decline for various reasons. One being there are no arranged marriages anymore and that women make their own money and don't need support from men anymore.

I also have ancedotal evidence in real life just as you do. It's not any less valid than yours.

 

Also IME, the few men who -do- bring it up tend to be the player types who get lots of NSA sex on a regular basis. These aren't going to be settling soon for anyone under any circumstances, and the reasons they give could be "she slept with me too fast" one week, "she drives a Volkswagen" the next and "she has a cat" the next.

No, they are not just the player types. You'd be surprised that there are men who have, say, 5 partners in total (all from relationships) and when the 6th woman comes along and she tries to continue communication for a relationship after sex, they will not respond to her, because she's a "slut" and "she's not to be trusted for a committed a relationship". Didn't he do the same thing!? Situations like this have happened a lot in my cycle. This info comes from the man's close friends usually and himself. Sometimes the women, too.

 

How do the men they sleep with know they are promiscuous? Are they sleeping with every man they go out with on a very early date and TELLIG THEM (give me some credit, I've been around and am not stupid), or more likely, is there even a date at all? and they keep going to clubs, getting drunk, picked up and f-cked, then cry about why he didn't call again? lawlz. If so, here's another pet peeve about the illusory double standard, it discounts lots of other factors that may cause rejection, and rolls them right up in the convenient, comfortable old "men's fault" ball.

 

They could be stupid, drink too much, loud, rude, dress wrong, make poor conversation, boring, or he simply doesn't like you, but when it's brunch time on Sunday, and during review of the random scenester dudes du jour, it all boils down to that ole convenient double standard. Yet somehow you -know- it's because you slept with him too soon and how unfair that is.

There's a thing called "reputation". People talk. Especially if you live in a small town. The women don't have to tell the man anything. Also, they are not picking those men in clubs. Usually from meetings or through friends. They have the disturbing idea that once they secure sex with a man he will want to commit or at least continue seeing them for something serious. Well, he doesn't. These friends belong to the "desperate slut" category (and it's not that they're ugly or anything).

Nope. It's being confirmed as I explained earlier by the man himself or his male friends. That's the main reason they cite: a slut. Nothing about being boring etc. It would be easier to lie and say the politically correct thing that she was boring, but they don't. They say she was a slut. Straight and simple. (And these are not your stereotypical players as I said).

 

I mean god forbid men apply the same rational, wise, or irrational, superficial standards to dump women that women apply to dump, ignore or even treat men poorly each and every day of the world.

The situation I'm talking about is totally different from what you're describing here.

 

Yep, and have seen lots of otherwise normal, sensible women turn into starf-ckers in a heartbeat, hell the guy who played crappy guitar around the bonfire in college had em lining up and taking numbers. Once more, I'm not without life experience. If you want to sell the argument that women don't respond disproportionately to wealth, power and celebrity in comparison to men, sell it somewhere else or just dig me up tabloid purchasing stats that show men buy those as much as women. Maybe stats on the audience for the royal wedding or "wealth and glamor" reality shows. Women, in general, average women, are far worse starf-ckers than average men are or will ever be. And no, they don't care -at all- who he banged the night before.

I don't know what you're talking about. I've been heavily involved in fan clubs and even organised large events, been to concerts etc and the normal women fans do not act like that. They will scream their hearts out, blow them kisses but that's it. But maybe that's because I'm not into rock festivals with the underground drug scene etc. I don't know what goes on in such specific events. I'm talking about general fandom. The majority does not act like the way you describe.

 

You think only women respond disproportionately to wealth? If you're in the UK please pick up a weekly copy of a real-life story magazine like "Chat" Take a Break" etc. They're full of stories of Turkish and Moroccan toyboys who fooled older British women into marriages and took their money. Gazillions of such men. There's a story like that almost every week.

 

Ok. But seriously I don't know why you're trying to turn this into a gold-digger thread. We're not talking about gold-diggers or serial players here. We're talking about average normal people.

 

That's interesting, I tend to remember perusing hundreds of puff pieces telling us that women are "better than" men over the last 30 years literally pouring forth from the establishment media, an obnoxious amount of them. Of course, men and women are equal when it's a question of any residual treatment from the past that favors men (whether it's real or made up for political or social gain), but when it's a matter of election year, or sucking the new discriminatory wave of goodies out of the taxpayers, suddenly women are still the underdog in need of protection from bad men and a raft of new affirmative action and entitlements.

Right. A conspiracy again. Well I don't remember anything like that and nor do I have encountered this in my ENTIRE life. If you go to specific hardcore feminist/misandrist lesbian circles, maybe you will.

You're going to make this into a political thread, too? And tax!? How does these relate to the discussion? Where do you get your facts, I don't know. I have never ever encountered anything like that and neither my male or female friends and older relatives. I don't know where you live, but again, you're talking about non-mainstream situations.

 

Men and women are -equal- (or rather are supposed to be) in the respect of receiving equal treatment under the law, outside that? not so much.

Right. So thank goodness for LAW? Eh? Or, us, women would be screwed, right? We would be like Somalia where a woman is raped every minute or so? Women of LS, do you here that?! Praise the Law! We are equal under the Law! All hail the Law!! Where would we be without the LAW? OMG, I have tears in my eyes! The Law is awesome! The Law is great! Praise the Law! We wouldn't be equal otherwise!! You know? I'm glad I don't know you, especially if I lived in an Arabic country. You're not from there, or are you?

 

No, women and men are not "equal" not even close, in how the genders seek and obtain sex respectively. It's not a case of "who has it better" so don't go there, but is a case of an established cultural dynamic that you nor any of the other "double standard clingers" here would even dream of suggesting face to face among your IRL acquaintances... or risk being laughed out of the room.

yada yada yada.... yeah yeah... we heard that before. They ARE equal, because the genders are equal. If they were not equal as genders, then I would agree. The inability of men to get more sex from women comes from their own ****ty behaviour. There are good men among them of course, but you know what "bad reputation" does. I have talked extensively with men and IRL about the double standards. The men agree. And I think I've read some LS posts by men here agree as well. ALL of us stayed inside the room without laughing. In fact, some of the male acquaintances led the discussion and agreed about the double standard. So try not pulling assumptions out of your ar*se next time? K?

 

Yes you can, I've clearly defined the two steps of the double standard argument, whether the judgment is being leveled by a man for relationship, dating or even further sex prospects, by another woman for competitive catty purposes, or by an old school mother, father or grandfather, is absolutely irrelevant to whether the double standard exists or not.

No, you can't. I've already explained the reasons, too. And women are not objects by the way nor separate "classes". The double standard exists bright as day. All my male friends agree. You're the weird one, out.

 

Time and time again, when this topic comes up here, those who want to cling to the double standard sacred cow bring in all manner of extraneous sidetracks, when the analysis stops at "are women in fact judged differently from men today for their sexual behavior?" and "if so, does that rise to the level of a gender double standard?" There's simply not much wiggle room in those two questions, one is answered "yes or no" and the other is also answered "yes or no." Trying to enlarge the discussion to include marriage, dating, relationships, STDs, desirability of available partners, etc. etc. gets very tiresome to what otherwise is a simple analysis.

So let's see... a virgin man who sleeps early with a virgin woman is a stud but the woman is a slut? Right? That's what it boils down to when you remove the partner numbers. Right?

 

Tiresome? For you perhaps. Because you don't like it when people add integral important parameters to a complex equation. You are not a mathematician. It's OK. I get it.

 

If you want to start a thread on people's attitudes about promiscuity and dating, promiscuity and marriage, promiscuity and communal standards, promiscuity and STDs, promiscuity and whether people can change their ways, promiscuity and pretty much every other issue, go right ahead.

I won't because this discussion fits right in this thread perfectly. Again, I get it, you're not a mathematician. You don't like extra parameters.

 

If you want to discuss whether there is a double standard in how men and women are judged for their sexual behavior, then answer "yes or no" to "are women and men in fact judged differently today," and then "yes or no" to does this meet the definition of a double standard?"

I can't answer yes or no to that! You know that equation I was talking about? The answer is: it's complex! Nice trick though! lol Again, women are not objects or separate "classes" on this planet.

 

Anyway, I've had my say here, and my position is clear, until the next time the stale, imaginary double standard argument comes up on these forums. Readers can decide for themselves.

Imaginary? Nope. As I said ask all my male friends and acquaintances. They include University Professors (so I hope you don't come back with an "oh they're stupid, naive etc" argument). LOL

 

Until next time then.

Edited March 23, 2012 by silvermercy

[phineas]

I never agreed with the three date rule. if someone decided I needed to get naked with them that quickly (or be unworthy of their attention), that would be a real put-off for me.

 

But isn't saying your put off by a man who next's you after a 3rd date for no sex the same as telling your boss you quit after he fires you?

[delilah123]

My personal experience, if I have her alone at my place or hers & I don't make a move, i'm friendzoned 99.9% of the time.

 

I screwed up a lot of potential sex right after my divorce trying to take things slow with women & being cautious & trying to get to know them & it backfires unless they really want you & think you are playing hard to get.

 

It's like they feel rejected you didn't try to sleep with them & they loose all attraction for you.

 

I don't even have to get it in there.

I just have to try & I can't give up after the first try.

 

I had to figure out on my own that if a woman allows herself to be alone with you, SOMETHING HAS TO HAPPEN.

 

Or you are done.

 

This! 100%

 

I actually won't have sex unless i'm in a committed relationship, and I won't have sex until I feel comfortable (which could be over a month..)

 

BUT

 

I do want him to try! Not annoyingly, but for instance, I'll do other things..so i'd still expect him to make a move for those things. otherwise, yeah I'd assume he wasn't attracted to me.

 

(FYI i make my general stance about sex known, so he's aware it's not a lack of attraction).

[singlelife]

This! 100%

 

I actually won't have sex unless i'm in a committed relationship, and I won't have sex until I feel comfortable (which could be over a month..)

 

BUT

 

I do want him to try! Not annoyingly, but for instance, I'll do other things..so i'd still expect him to make a move for those things. otherwise, yeah I'd assume he wasn't attracted to me.

 

(FYI i make my general stance about sex known, so he's aware it's not a lack of attraction).

 

So guys here it is...if you want a girl go for her. Rejection is worth it. That's like an ice breaker.

[somedude81]

This! 100%

 

I actually won't have sex unless i'm in a committed relationship, and I won't have sex until I feel comfortable (which could be over a month..)

 

BUT

 

I do want him to try! Not annoyingly, but for instance, I'll do other things..so i'd still expect him to make a move for those things. otherwise, yeah I'd assume he wasn't attracted to me.

 

(FYI i make my general stance about sex known, so he's aware it's not a lack of attraction).

Very interesting.

 

Even if you don't actually want sex, you still want him to try for it.

 

And if he doesn't try, you'll assume he's not into you. Never mind the fact that you two are alone at his place or yours and all the dates you went on etc.

[Jeremy87]

This! 100%

 

I actually won't have sex unless i'm in a committed relationship, and I won't have sex until I feel comfortable (which could be over a month..)

 

BUT

 

I do want him to try! Not annoyingly, but for instance, I'll do other things..so i'd still expect him to make a move for those things. otherwise, yeah I'd assume he wasn't attracted to me.

 

(FYI i make my general stance about sex known, so he's aware it's not a lack of attraction).

 

women defy logic. why do i do good with women? i know this.

[hotloader]

It seems girls like to get it in more now adays. Even the good girls. SO ladies is it true that once we meet a girl and have that first date she is actually ready for you to go there instead of waiting? Just trying to understand the mindset of ladies today.

 

Yes, it is true. Most women today are sluts. Four pages of beating around the bush, and you've finally got yourself a straight answer. Too bad I didn't catch this thread earlier.