singlelife Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 It seems girls like to get it in more now adays. Even the good girls. SO ladies is it true that once we meet a girl and have that first date she is actually ready for you to go there instead of waiting? Just trying to understand the mindset of ladies today.
Mantis Toboggan Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Are you talking about sex? What's with all the code words? Sex isn't a banned word, you know. 1
dasein Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Yes, men tend to severely underestimate the amount of sex women they meet are likely having. This leads to feelings of inconsistency when it becomes apparent a woman who accepts and even expects courtship rituals of the past from one group of men is acting just like the average man sexually with a different group of men, and so does not deserve any special treatment as a "lady." The choice then becomes whether to remain as the traditional man and feel like a dupe? or become the tuque wearing PUA scenester and learn how to press women's emotions for NSA. Increasingly men are choosing the latter, which explains the huge explosion in the PUA culture and industry.
silvermercy Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 It's true on some occasions. Depends where you live I suppose. The sad fact is that many of those women who "put out" early expect a relationship, something which the men won't give them. (I have an actual real-life example of a friend who does that consistently and then wails and cries when men never call her again after early sex. She's 27 and she won't see the truth in the light).
Author singlelife Posted March 21, 2012 Author Posted March 21, 2012 Yes, men tend to severely underestimate the amount of sex women they meet are likely having. This leads to feelings of inconsistency when it becomes apparent a woman who accepts and even expects courtship rituals of the past from one group of men is acting just like the average man sexually with a different group of men, and so does not deserve any special treatment as a "lady." The choice then becomes whether to remain as the traditional man and feel like a dupe? or become the tuque wearing PUA scenester and learn how to press women's emotions for NSA. Increasingly men are choosing the latter, which explains the huge explosion in the PUA culture and industry. so you want to be in the sex group.
dasein Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 so you want to be in the sex group. Have been in both groups many times, the group I'm in at this time is the "alone and free" group and very happy being there. 1
phineas Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 My personal experience, if I have her alone at my place or hers & I don't make a move, i'm friendzoned 99.9% of the time. I screwed up a lot of potential sex right after my divorce trying to take things slow with women & being cautious & trying to get to know them & it backfires unless they really want you & think you are playing hard to get. It's like they feel rejected you didn't try to sleep with them & they loose all attraction for you. I don't even have to get it in there. I just have to try & I can't give up after the first try. I had to figure out on my own that if a woman allows herself to be alone with you, SOMETHING HAS TO HAPPEN. Or you are done.
somedude81 Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I'm getting the impression too that women expect sex right away. And yet they don't realize that having sex quickly is why men don't want to commit.
silvermercy Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I'm getting the impression too that women expect sex right away. And yet they don't realize that having sex quickly is why men don't want to commit. Well, if those men still choose to have sex with those women quickly, the same thing applies to them; or it'd be a hypocritical double standard. 5
sweetsmmr91 Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I don't expect sex right away. I actually don't have sex until I'm in a relationship, titles and all. With that said, if I'm at a guy's house, or he's at my apartment.. I still want him to make a move and kiss me? And get physical enough? I just don't want sex yet. 2
dasein Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Well, if those men still choose to have sex with those women quickly, the same thing applies to them; or it'd be a hypocritical double standard. No, the double standard is an illusion. The genders are so different in the sex seeking behavior required to obtain sex as to make them apples and oranges in that respect. Double standards cannot exist between apples and oranges. If she desires, the average woman can stay in her bedroom, call men she finds sexually attractive, they will come to her house, and sex her up. Only a tiny fraction of a percentage of men, if any, could ever obtain sex in this manner. A man who did have that kind of gatekeeper power over sex, a billionaire, professional athlete, royalty, etc., that every average and even below average woman has, would be (and are) held to the same standards of accountability for their sexual gluttony as average women are who choose to be impulsively promiscuous 1
SJC2008 Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 My personal experience, if I have her alone at my place or hers & I don't make a move, i'm friendzoned 99.9% of the time. I screwed up a lot of potential sex right after my divorce trying to take things slow with women & being cautious & trying to get to know them & it backfires unless they really want you & think you are playing hard to get. It's like they feel rejected you didn't try to sleep with them & they loose all attraction for you. I don't even have to get it in there. I just have to try & I can't give up after the first try. I had to figure out on my own that if a woman allows herself to be alone with you, SOMETHING HAS TO HAPPEN. Or you are done. Excellent point. The ones that want to wait still want to know they're dating a man with a spine and you may think you're being a gentleman she thinks you're a coward or don't like her. I say guess what ladies: You can't have your cake and eat it too. The guy who will makes the move move that fast is the one who didn't call you back because you didn't "oblige" and is on to the next one who will. Of course there exceptions to the rule.
silvermercy Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 No, the double standard is an illusion. The genders are so different in the sex seeking behavior required to obtain sex as to make them apples and oranges in that respect. Double standards cannot exist between apples and oranges. If she desires, the average woman can stay in her bedroom, call men she finds sexually attractive, they will come to her house, and sex her up. Only a tiny fraction of a percentage of men, if any, could ever obtain sex in this manner. A man who did have that kind of gatekeeper power over sex, a billionaire, professional athlete, royalty, etc., that every average and even below average woman has, would be (and are) held to the same standards of accountability for their sexual gluttony as average women are who choose to be impulsively promiscuous Nope. The double standard EXISTS. Sorry to say. Why? Because you're forgetting a small detail: How many women secure exclusive relationships after early sex with a man? Not many. The gatekeepers of RELATIONSHIPS are usually MEN. So if no relationship happens after sex, women usually get depressed about it, while men usually walk away high-fiving each other. That's why women do not give sex easily despite how horny they may be. And because relationships and sex are extremely intertwined, that means women do not hold all the power when it comes to sex/relationships. This in turn, also means that the double standard exists no matter how you look at it. 2
TheBigQuestion Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Nope. The double standard EXISTS. Sorry to say. Why? Because you're forgetting a small detail: How many women secure exclusive relationships after early sex with a man? Not many. The gatekeepers of RELATIONSHIPS are usually MEN. So if no relationship happens after sex, women usually get depressed about it, while men usually walk away high-fiving each other. That's why women do not give sex easily despite how horny they may be. And because relationships and sex are extremely intertwined, that means women do not hold all the power when it comes to sex/relationships. This in turn, also means that the double standard exists no matter how you look at it. ::facepalm:: not this again. Have you ever been to college, silvermercy? I assure you that many, many women will readily have sex without the expectation of a relationship. I obviously can't give you a statistical figure as to what percentage or how many, but most people's anecdotal experiences would indicate that your conclusions about modern female sexuality are pure hogwash. Plenty of women treat sex as casual sport. As to the age old debate about sexual double standards, no, they really don't exist. I agree that men do hold a good amount of power in relationships (really, anyone for whom you have a strong emotional affection holds some sort of power over you). That has little impact on the question of whether there is a sexual double standard. Men simply do not have the power to have sex with who they want to the same degree that women do. Not even close. When there is that much disparity, how do you justify calling it a double standard? I don't advocate harshly judging or insulting promiscuous people, but you don't need to proclaim that a double standard exists in order to stop people from doing so.
Anela Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 No, the double standard is an illusion. The genders are so different in the sex seeking behavior required to obtain sex as to make them apples and oranges in that respect. Double standards cannot exist between apples and oranges. If she desires, the average woman can stay in her bedroom, call men she finds sexually attractive, they will come to her house, and sex her up. Only a tiny fraction of a percentage of men, if any, could ever obtain sex in this manner. A man who did have that kind of gatekeeper power over sex, a billionaire, professional athlete, royalty, etc., that every average and even below average woman has, would be (and are) held to the same standards of accountability for their sexual gluttony as average women are who choose to be impulsively promiscuous The double standard is NOT an illusion.
TheBigQuestion Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) The double standard is NOT an illusion. Failing to back up your conclusions with any reasoning is NOT a great way to have a discussion. Edited March 22, 2012 by TheBigQuestion
silvermercy Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) ::facepalm:: not this again. Have you ever been to college, silvermercy? I assure you that many, many women will readily have sex without the expectation of a relationship. I obviously can't give you a statistical figure as to what percentage or how many, but most people's anecdotal experiences would indicate that your conclusions about modern female sexuality are pure hogwash. Plenty of women treat sex as casual sport. As to the age old debate about sexual double standards, no, they really don't exist. I agree that men do hold a good amount of power in relationships (really, anyone for whom you have a strong emotional affection holds some sort of power over you). That has little impact on the question of whether there is a sexual double standard. Men simply do not have the power to have sex with who they want to the same degree that women do. Not even close. When there is that much disparity, how do you justify calling it a double standard? I don't advocate harshly judging or insulting promiscuous people, but you don't need to proclaim that a double standard exists in order to stop people from doing so. I'm face-palming myself now actually after your post and mumbling "no, not this again". So, that's the only thing we agree on. (I also have a Masters and a PhD but I don't know why this is relevant.) The double standard is NOT an illusion. Did you read my post?? I just wrote sex and relationships go together HAND IN HAND, at least for many women. So, for many women: sex = relationships. I don't know where you get your stats from but at many parts of the world this is not the case about women, at least ones above college age, which is a LOT. Even women sluts (I have a friend like that who always gives me the insider info) sleep in the hope of securing a relationship. But she never listens despite getting depressed of her failed attempts at relationships. She's not college age, she 27. I also personally want to vomit at the thought of a promiscuous man and even more so when that promiscuous man is also a hypocrite. Edited March 22, 2012 by silvermercy
somedude81 Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Well, if those men still choose to have sex with those women quickly, the same thing applies to them; or it'd be a hypocritical double standard. I've never really understood that. Fairly often on PUA boards a man will post a story of how he had sex with a girl right away then he lost respect for her. And I'm just thinking, then why have sex right away? Though the answer may be, that if he doesn't have sex ASAP, she'll friendzone him and move on to somebody else. So what's the solution then?
silvermercy Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I've never really understood that. Fairly often on PUA boards a man will post a story of how he had sex with a girl right away then he lost respect for her. And I'm just thinking, then why have sex right away? Though the answer may be, that if he doesn't have sex ASAP, she'll friendzone him and move on to somebody else. So what's the solution then? More communication on what both parties want I suppose?? Today everything goes without communication, just guessing. Also, how does that man know she will definitely friendzone him if he doesn't sleep with her? Obviously, for her at least, she didn't friendzone him. She slept with him! LOL But losing respect? That's what I call vomit-inducing behavior: he did the same thing.
TheBigQuestion Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I'm face-palming myself now actually after your post and mumbling "no, not this again". So, that's the only thing we agree on. (I also have a Masters and a PhD but I don't know why this is relevant.) The double standard is NOT an illusion. Did you read my post?? I just wrote sex and relationships go together HAND IN HAND, at least for many women. So, for many women: sex = relationships. I don't know where you get your stats from but at many parts of the world this is not the case about women, at least ones above college age, which is a LOT. Even women sluts (I have a friend like that who always gives me the insider info) sleep in the hope of securing a relationship. But she never listens despite getting depressed of her failed attempts at relationships. She's not college age, she 27. I also personally want to vomit at the thought of a promiscuous man and even more so when that promiscuous man is also a hypocrite. I asked about college because that's where promiscuity is most apparent/becomes apparent for the first time for many people. My point was that I went there, and I know what many women do, and for many of those women, those behaviors don't change upon graduation either. I'm not making any value judgments about promiscuity. I'm just saying that in most first-world countries, promiscuous women who have no trouble separating sex from relationships are hardly a rare phenomenon. You can stamp your feet all you want and keep stating that the double standard is not an illusion, but you still haven't provided a real explanation as to why. Sure, many women will conflate sex and relationships, but that doesn't change the fact that women exert a disproportionate amount of sexual power, whether they realize it or not, and that this makes it understandable that when comparing the same sexual habits/behaviors, one gender could be evaluated differently than the other. If both men and women had equal sexual power and women were more likely to be considered sexual gluttons, then yes, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly that there is a double standard. As it stands, however, that is not reality.
somedude81 Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 More communication on what both parties want I suppose?? Today everything goes without communication, just guessing. Also, how does that man know she will definitely friendzone him if he doesn't sleep with her? Obviously, for her at least, she didn't friendzone him. She slept with him! LOL But losing respect? That's what I call vomit-inducing behavior: he did the same thing. Experience. Every man has been friendzoned by at least a few girls in his life. If she doesn't friendzone him, then she'll at least do the fade and that will be it. If a woman is multidating, she's going to drop the guys who are showing the least amount of intrest/boldness whatever in her.
silvermercy Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I asked about college because that's where promiscuity is most apparent/becomes apparent for the first time for many people. My point was that I went there, and I know what many women do, and for many of those women, those behaviors don't change upon graduation either. I'm not making any value judgments about promiscuity. I'm just saying that in most first-world countries, promiscuous women who have no trouble separating sex from relationships are hardly a rare phenomenon. You can stamp your feet all you want and keep stating that the double standard is not an illusion, but you still haven't provided a real explanation as to why. Sure, many women will conflate sex and relationships, but that doesn't change the fact that women exert a disproportionate amount of sexual power, whether they realize it or not, and that this makes it understandable that when comparing the same sexual habits/behaviors, one gender could be evaluated differently than the other. If both men and women had equal sexual power and women were more likely to be considered sexual gluttons, then yes, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly that there is a double standard. As it stands, however, that is not reality. Most of those college-age women you talk about will eventually graduate into older women just like my friend who also want relationships. They will have difficulty getting it though because of the way they generally go about securing them. They have learnt this way. Well, you haven't provided any science-proof facts either. Only the idea that women hold more sexual power than men. And I just told you, EVENTUALLY, most women will equate sex to relationships. And many relationship-holders are men. Even if it was so as you said, does it make it RIGHT? This whole "illusion" thing makes it sound like it's the women's sexuality own fault. So, let's get this straight: it's bad for women to have a lot of sex because it's EASIER for them to have sex? You know what's EVEN EASIER for men to do? Run away. But noooo.... LOL I am not promiscuous myself AT ALL. In fact I loathe it, but I will not date a promiscuous man who holds promiscuous women to such a double standard (it exists). He's just not desirable boyfriend material for non-promiscuous women either. Times have changed and women can also have a say about what kind of man they date. Edited March 22, 2012 by silvermercy
TheBigQuestion Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Most of those college-age women you talk about will eventually graduate into older women just like my friend who also want relationships. They will have difficulty getting it though because of the way they generally go about securing them. They have learnt this way. Well, you haven't provided any science-proof facts either. Only the idea that women hold more sexual power than men. And I just told you, EVENTUALLY, most women will equate sex to relationships. And many relationship-holders are men. Even if it was so as you said, does it make it RIGHT? This whole "illusion" thing makes it sound like it's the women's sexuality own fault. So, let's get this straight: it's bad for women to have a lot of sex because it's EASIER for them to have sex? You know what's even easier for men to do? Run away. But noooo.... LOL I am not promiscuous myself AT ALL. In fact I loathe it, but I will not date a promiscuous man who holds women to such a double standard (it exists). He's just not desirable boyfriend material for non-promiscuous women either. Times have changed and women can also have a say about what kind of man they date. Gluttony/excessively indulging in base pleasures has been condemned by most philosophers and psychological schools of thought for a reason. Even hedonistic philosophies like Benthamite utilitarianism greatly downplayed the desirability of base pleasures. That's great that you aren't promiscuous. I never asked about your personal habits and they're of little relevance to this conversation. I also never said that you don't have a say about what kind of man you want to date. Are you done with your tantrum?
silvermercy Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Gluttony/excessively indulging in base pleasures has been condemned by most philosophers and psychological schools of thought for a reason. Even hedonistic philosophies like Benthamite utilitarianism greatly downplayed the desirability of base pleasures. I agree. Where did I say I did not agree? Or mention anything about it? I think those were wise words and philosophies. And applied to both men and women. That's great that you aren't promiscuous. I never asked about your personal habits and they're of little relevance to this conversation. I also never said that you don't have a say about what kind of man you want to date.They are relevant, because many men think it's usually promiscuous women who shout about double standards, when it's not just them. Are you done with your tantrum?If you are done with your own tantrum, yes. Edited March 22, 2012 by silvermercy
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