Jane2011 Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Leigh - not sure, but I think he might have been joking!
kaylan Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Yes Leigh, your post is definitely easier to read now. Though I dont have time to get sucked into this discussion at the moment. The rest of you seem to have a handle on all this lol. 1
Author Leigh 87 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Posted March 22, 2012 Yes Leigh, your post is definitely easier to read now. Though I dont have time to get sucked into this discussion at the moment. The rest of you seem to have a handle on all this lol. Thanks. You have contributed a lot already:) I take notice when people give constructive advice. I just hate when people assume I am a dumbarse, and say " your a moron"... people who care will try to help:)
cerridwen Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Thanks. You have contributed a lot already:) I take notice when people give constructive advice. I just hate when people assume I am a dumbarse, and say " your a moron"... people who care will try to help:) Leigh, For what it's worth, I think you're a lovely and very sweet person. I hope every success is yours. 1
Jane2011 Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Leigh, For what it's worth, I think you're a lovely and very sweet person. I hope every success is yours. I think so, too.
Author Leigh 87 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I think so, too. :):) THANKS:):) That means way more to me, when people say that, than having a degree;) Not being able to write essay quality emails/letters/or posts on here is the only thing not finishing high school or getting a degree, has really robbed me out of, in terms of important skills that people actually notice:o:( Reading a lot, and the help of my mother, is all I need to get a grip of it all. She been an English teacher for some time now. Also, I will do an essay writing course or general writing course at some point. I was thinking.... If I DO with to get a degree in exercise science or nutrition, I think I am passed the age where I WANT to sit down and do maths. Espcially the math in this degree; they go through basic, pointless math u will NEVER use. I DO NOT MIND statistics, I can grin and bear that for half a year. A social sciences degree is more my alley:) I think when your young, sitting down and doing math, when you UTTERLY HATE IT, is more palateble... you can see the end goal, that u will have your degree by age 23 or therabouts... Where as, I DO NOT want to spend my late 20';s, sitting down and doing comletely JOYLESS maths, that I hate witha passion. Hmm.. I think I will make a sucess out of my personal training, and get a social sciences degree, and to minimal math and get o be a councellor:) ONE thing I regret: having to get to 25 and f*ck my life up so far. Now I have to literally start my career. Personal training is a career people start in their late 20's and BEYONG, and end up very sucessful at, it gives you asteady income without getting a degree. If I had my time over, knowing what I know now... I would of course, had chosen to get a degree. Yes. I WOULD have gotten a degree, due to the job security it gives me. I would also become a personal trainer, though. That is still my passion. I guess my post was thought out, due to my own predicament; the fact I would have gone for a degree, but things in life prevented me. I also come from a back ground, where I grew up ASSUMING I would get a degree. I EXPECTED to. I thought it was THE way to a respectable life. My young self would be very dissapointed at first, but now I do not judge myself harshely, and NOT getting a degree, when I grew up THINKING I WOULD get one, be default, has given me humility. I am WAY less judgmental than I would have been, had I not screw ed my life up. The point is: I am the same person I always have been. The same mental capacity to go to Uni if I wanted to... I just missed my chance, and realise that I can still be every big as intelligent snd sucessful as a person with a degree. It will be harder for me, perhaps, to earn good money, as a person with a degree. Personal trainers get 70K a year is they are successful in AUS dollars, more if they really make it. After what I have been through, I just want to be able to SUPPORT myself. And also have enough to go out and have fun, and afford things like a push bike, and camping trips, and extra things. I wanted a degree and will still get one, but I have learnt that I am no less of a person, intellectually or otherwise, by not having one. Besides the process of GETTING a degree, I have no less than any one else has, aside from the people who are really into academia. I am only getting a degree because I enjoy that set way of studying. Not to get he actual degree. Edited March 22, 2012 by Leigh 87
Jane2011 Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Leigh, you're definitely not less of a person just because you don't have a degree. You're really a sweetheart, and I think a lot of people see that. Also, you're young and have plenty of time to do a lot of things. The one reason I suggest taking at least one class per semester is that I know a lot of people who later on in life, for whatever reason, wish they'd gotten their degree. Not everyone feels that way, but I just see it a lot because I teach. I have students in their late 30s and early 40s who are doing just fine financially but they just want their degree! You might not be one of those people who feels something's missing without it, but you might (eventually). It's not a bad idea to just slowly get a bunch of credits under your belt for several years. By the time you really feel like doing a degree, you're halfway through and you never really even had to endure the onerous "15 or 18 hour course load" that people dread. Math isn't a huge thing. If you do a social science degree/liberal arts degree, you're right, the math is minimal. And, funny thing, since Asians and math were talked about earlier in this thread (I mentioned it myself), I heard a pretty scandalous thing today while in the halls of the school where I teach. I actually heard a girl say, "I paid this little Asian girl to take my math class for me for $150.00." I was not surprised, but it was funny. I'm assuming it was some online math class. You shouldn't do that, of course. I'm just sharing an anecdotal incident I overheard/saw today. People do that stuff all the time, though. It is sad. I think most people do it out of desperation, though, not because they want to cheat. It's because they really can't deal with the particular subject, but don't want one Achilles heel class to botch their degree-seeking efforts. Edited March 22, 2012 by Jane2011
Author Leigh 87 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Leigh, you're definitely not less of a person just because you don't have a degree. You're really a sweetheart, and I think a lot of people see that. Also, you're young and have plenty of time to do a lot of things. The one reason I suggest taking at least one class per semester is that I know a lot of people who later on in life, for whatever reason, wish they'd gotten their degree. Not everyone feels that way, but I just see it a lot because I teach. I have students in their late 30s and early 40s who are doing just fine financially but they just want their degree! You might not be one of those people who feels something's missing without it, but you might (eventually). It's not a bad idea to just slowly get a bunch of credits under your belt for several years. By the time you really feel like doing a degree, you're halfway through and you never really even had to endure the onerous "15 or 18 hour course load" that people dread. Math isn't a huge thing. If you do a social science degree/liberal arts degree, you're right, the math is minimal. And, funny thing, since Asians and math were talked about earlier in this thread (I mentioned it myself), I heard a pretty scandalous thing today while in the halls of the school where I teach. I actually heard a girl say, "I paid this little Asian girl to take my math class for me for $150.00." I was not surprised, but it was funny. I'm assuming it was some online math class. You shouldn't do that, of course. I'm just sharing an anecdotal incident I overheard/saw today. People do that stuff all the time, though. It is sad. I think most people do it out of desperation, though, not because they want to cheat. It's because they really can't deal with the particular subject, but don't want one Achilles heel class to botch their degree-seeking efforts. LOL... got an Asian to do their math class? Sadly, it IS tempting:(, considering I DO want very much to get an exercise science degree..BUT, I am all or nothing black/white when it comes to my degree; i either want IT ALL, or, if there are parts of it I cannot do, I will not bother doing it at all. BEsides, I would not feel confident getting the degree, in the fear that I WOULD have to use math.. What do I do then, get some Asian friend to get a walky tallky, that I can bring to work with me, to solve my basic math problems in my work? I think a social sciences degree is my best bet, and I think that, although I will do it full time for the most part, that accumulating classes is a good way to start. I will not be out of the loop too much, I will have a taste of the volume and content i will need to get through. I do love to read, but come one, full time Uni from NOTHING is a HUGE leap. I will get my personal training career off the ground, and then I will definately like to do one or two classes. That is my plan, now that of I think of it: personaltraining, Uni on the side to ease me into it, than full time when I am serious about finishing the degree. For now, at age 25, I would do better earning a living and gaining the respect and self satisfaction from working and earning a living. I am looking forward to getting a degree. Ironically, despite the nature of this thread, I actually DO very much feel that getting a degree is a partt of what I want to be. I strongly feel the need to get a degree. It is not because of social class or to get people to think more highly of me. It is just because it is a challenge I believe I am destined to face. It is something I wish to do, it is a challenge I need to win. The thing about Uni, is there is BOUND to be a bachellor that you find interesting. Edited March 22, 2012 by Leigh 87
Eclypse Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Degrees are useful but they shouldn't be your only measuring stick when determining the worth of a person. Someone who was a jerk before they got their PhD is likely to still be a jerk afterwards. I'm not sure how it is in the US at the moment but in Australia the government is pushing for 40% of 25-34 year olds to have a bachelor degree by 2015. I'm not sure if this is a wise idea as there are just not enough skilled jobs to go around, and we do need people for other essential services, eg: train drivers, garbage collectors etc. Also there are a lot of questionable unis popping up with some weird degrees like bachelor of flower therapy or whatnot, and although this may sound extremely elitist, some degrees are just not as hard or valued as others. But what having a degree does mean is that the person has shown commitment to spending a significant chunk of their life learning and becoming competent at something. This is a very employable quality, and that is probably what most people are referring to when they say they value people with degrees. However just any old degree probably won't set you apart from the flock. I'm doing an honours year which is an independent research project. The skills picked up from this are incredibly useful and that is what uni really is all about, developing independent skills which are transferable to any job. I'm not talking about specific things like learning to draw blood from a recently killed mouse which still has its heart beating, but things like problem solving and critical thinking skills, which are essential in today's society.
grkBoy Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 I think most women simply want a man who either can be a "breadwinner" in case they marry and have a family, or he isn't the one struggling in life financially. I think most men simply want a woman who won't be a financial liability. So the 27 year old who works part-time in a tanning salon and lives with her parents while maxing out credit cards on shopping won't entice men into anything more than a fling. Degrees are meaningless...you just have to show you won't be a liability on that other person's life. Now I've seen men and women who think "blue collar" folk or non-college educated folk are "lesser", and I think it's narrow-minded. I too see plumbers and electricians who earn more than accountants. In my eyes though, the "must have a degree" men and women are just setting the bar higher and thus making it harder for them. I'll never forget one guy who lamented on how it seemed all the "hot" women he meets are airheads and they work at jobs meant for teenagers, while all the smart and educated women he meets are bland-looking or ugly. That's life. In the end, you can't expect the opposite sex to be lusting for you if you're an adult-aged person (man or woman) who can't earn a stable living and live a stable life. Even if you're hot looking, it only ends up that you become someone's plaything over "the one they would marry" in many cases.
zengirl Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Alright, yeah, I'm sorry, I've been a bit hazy lately, but the point is, why does it mean that I'm uninterested in education, simply because I choose not to pursue an education in an establishment? Because I work in the education establishment and it's a big part of my life (educating kids and getting educated myself -- I'm getting my PhD). It's a value of mine, and I think the education establishment is valuable, whereas someone like you does not. I think it's great to ALSO self-educate, but someone who couldn't appreciate the education establishment wouldn't share my values! Simple as that. Doesn't mean they're stupid or uninterested or bad in any way -- just means we wouldn't have been compatible. Is my own self-education lesser than a college education if I'm teaching myself all of the same information? FWIW, I don't believe college is much about learning the information at all. MMV, of course. The people who chose not to get a degree and would teach themselves the same information are especially incompatible with me because they are consciously against joining the education establishment (the people who just wanted to study a non-college field, like auto repair, might actually be better suited for my company). I LOVE the education establishment. It's driven my life. My natural apptitude is actually above average, when it comes to LEARNING grammar... all my grammar comes from reading books, and the fact my own mother is an english teacher. I did not "learn" any grammar from school. However, when it comes to texting, writing basic letters, and having conversations with people with degrees or intelligent people in general, no one would notice that I am infact, not the best, linguistically, when it comes to grammar. All grammar should be applied grammar (that's a newer writing standard, but it's a long time coming). Learning parts of speech or exercises from most grammar books is (thankfully) becoming outdated practice for the reason you state here -- it doesn't actually teach one to write any better in most cases. That's not just you; that's the material you're learning from.
thatone Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Degrees are useful but they shouldn't be your only measuring stick when determining the worth of a person. Someone who was a jerk before they got their PhD is likely to still be a jerk afterwards. I'm not sure how it is in the US at the moment but in Australia the government is pushing for 40% of 25-34 year olds to have a bachelor degree by 2015. I'm not sure if this is a wise idea as there are just not enough skilled jobs to go around, and we do need people for other essential services, eg: train drivers, garbage collectors etc. Also there are a lot of questionable unis popping up with some weird degrees like bachelor of flower therapy or whatnot, and although this may sound extremely elitist, some degrees are just not as hard or valued as others. But what having a degree does mean is that the person has shown commitment to spending a significant chunk of their life learning and becoming competent at something. This is a very employable quality, and that is probably what most people are referring to when they say they value people with degrees. However just any old degree probably won't set you apart from the flock. I'm doing an honours year which is an independent research project. The skills picked up from this are incredibly useful and that is what uni really is all about, developing independent skills which are transferable to any job. I'm not talking about specific things like learning to draw blood from a recently killed mouse which still has its heart beating, but things like problem solving and critical thinking skills, which are essential in today's society. all of those fly by night degrees and pushing everyone to go to college is for profit, pure and simple. they don't care about the jobs those kids will or won't get after the fact. convince an 18 year old to sign up for a bunch of debt and pass the money from the debt straight to a third party. third party buys political influence with some of it and pockets the rest. been going on in the US for years. welcome to our world.
Emilia Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 all of those fly by night degrees and pushing everyone to go to college is for profit, pure and simple. they don't care about the jobs those kids will or won't get after the fact. convince an 18 year old to sign up for a bunch of debt and pass the money from the debt straight to a third party. third party buys political influence with some of it and pockets the rest. been going on in the US for years. welcome to our world. Since tuition fees have been introduced in the UK, fewer students have applied to go to university and they have been MUCH more careful at picking the course. There is no need to have 50% of the population holding a degree in golf science (no kidding) when you have no engineers (engineers in the classical meaning, not IT guys)
sweetjasmine Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 Now I've seen men and women who think "blue collar" folk or non-college educated folk are "lesser", and I think it's narrow-minded. I too see plumbers and electricians who earn more than accountants. In my eyes though, the "must have a degree" men and women are just setting the bar higher and thus making it harder for them. And on the flip side, I've had my fiance's family make comments about how worthless all college degrees are (which would include my own, I guess) and how all you do is repeat what the professor said and fill in bubbles on a scantron sheet, and tada, there's your degree that isn't going to help you in any way and you'd be better off doing what they did and going straight to work out of high school. That's just as insulting and flat out ignorant as saying that people who work with their hands are too dumb to do anything else. Not to mention the fact that they're lecturing me on what college is about when they've never been and when I've spent every year after high school in academia in some form or another. That's like me telling an electrician what it's like to get certified as a master electrician. As for "must have a degree" limiting choices, I guess it technically does. I've never sat down and thought, "Hm, I will only date men with degrees," but looking back, every single one has either had a degree or been in the process of getting one. That's just the crowd I was around as a college student and as a graduate student, so it was never an issue. I've met a few intelligent, interesting people without degrees who I might have dated, but it never worked out that way. 2
CarrieT Posted March 22, 2012 Posted March 22, 2012 So a few mistakes means my boyfriend and I are morons? I never said that and - AGAIN - you are making assumptions. I admit to growing tired of your posts, Leigh, because you draw conclusions from the abstract to the specific without backing up your suppositions with facts. You post extraordinarily long posts that are difficult to wade through with varying fonts; sometimes CAPITALIZED and sometimes bold - because you often change topics or subject matter in mid-post. And yet you start a thread about higher education and rationalize why you don't want or need it, although you might consider it in the future. I heartily recommend you consider it now; not because I think you need it but because I am not entirely convinced you will go back to it later, after you get your physical therapy cert. A degree is an excellent way to lay the groundwork for additional training and education, regardless of the field which is being pursued. Being well educated from the get-go will make you a better physical therapist because you will have had additional education in communication, critical thinking, and extrapolated thought. I believe it would be a mistake to try and do it after. Based on how quickly you change your stance on issues and situations, I do not believe you are the type of person to stay the course on something like higher education. I would like to be wrong in that assessment. I was wrong to point out your mistakes, but I do believe it is indicative of a lack of a higher education that many of your posts are rambling and often incomprehensible in their intent (although after much bantering, we often figure it out). Yes, I am an admitted snob when it comes to education - but is because it was so difficult for me to obtain one and I laud anyone who works towards a degree. My bachelor's degree took me twelve years and my master's degree took me four years to obtain. They are worthless degrees as far as our society is concerned (art), but they are important to ME. While they will not help me get a better or higher paying job, they have molded and sculpted my brain in ways that make me a better employee, a more insightful person, and a better partner in a relationship. 1
Author Leigh 87 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Posted March 22, 2012 I never said that and - AGAIN - you are making assumptions. I admit to growing tired of your posts, Leigh, because you draw conclusions from the abstract to the specific without backing up your suppositions with facts. You post extraordinarily long posts that are difficult to wade through with varying fonts; sometimes CAPITALIZED and sometimes bold - because you often change topics or subject matter in mid-post. And yet you start a thread about higher education and rationalize why you don't want or need it, although you might consider it in the future. I heartily recommend you consider it now; not because I think you need it but because I am not entirely convinced you will go back to it later, after you get your physical therapy cert. A degree is an excellent way to lay the groundwork for additional training and education, regardless of the field which is being pursued. Being well educated from the get-go will make you a better physical therapist because you will have had additional education in communication, critical thinking, and extrapolated thought. I believe it would be a mistake to try and do it after. Based on how quickly you change your stance on issues and situations, I do not believe you are the type of person to stay the course on something like higher education. I would like to be wrong in that assessment. I was wrong to point out your mistakes, but I do believe it is indicative of a lack of a higher education that many of your posts are rambling and often incomprehensible in their intent (although after much bantering, we often figure it out). Yes, I am an admitted snob when it comes to education - but is because it was so difficult for me to obtain one and I laud anyone who works towards a degree. My bachelor's degree took me twelve years and my master's degree took me four years to obtain. They are worthless degrees as far as our society is concerned (art), but they are important to ME. While they will not help me get a better or higher paying job, they have molded and sculpted my brain in ways that make me a better employee, a more insightful person, and a better partner in a relationship. I already have my personal training certificates. It is personal training, not physical therapy. Many personal trainers have sucessful careers. I believe I will be one of them, because I am passionate about it, and am prepared to work hard to achieve what I know I want and will be good at. I have reasons for not going to college/getting a degree, and I am 25 now. FUll time study is not suitable for me, because I need to go and earn a living. I have no money, and at age 25, I would rather focus on obtaining money to live on, rather than study full time. I am not the type who works full time and studies full time, either. I lkie to work out, socialize, and sleep thanks. Personaltraining is a well respected career choice. You earn a living similar to a degree job - many times more. If it is what I am PASSIONATE about, and if it is what I want to wake up to each day COMPOUNDED with the fact I NEED to work to earn money, personaltraining is my BEST path. OF course I will go back and get a degree. I enjoy this form of studying.
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