tigressA Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 You know I see this alot. I've noticed this when socializing with educated professionals that the super ambitious guys are attracted to the women with less education or without a college degree. Of course, these women, like you, are very goodlooking. Oh, I have a degree. I just don't put any importance on it. I'm not doing anything with it, as in my job has nothing to do with the major I was in. I thought that going to college was something I really wanted to do, but then realized it felt more like what I was merely supposed to do. So I coasted through, after a break due to lack of funds.
FitChick Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I date men who seem to be at either extreme -- PhD or left school at 16, like Richard Branson, to start a successful business. They are all well off, sophisticated and cultured. I like to constantly learn new things and I like men who are the same. The key is reading. If you read, you will learn proper grammar and spelling by osmosis. A few people on here might take that to heart. 4
make me believe Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I went back to school at 26 for an Accounting degree, and honestly I have to laugh at the idea of the average college student being invested in their future, passionate, motivated for success, etc. I go to class and I do not hear my classmates talking about their futures or their "passion" for the subject they're studying. I hear them talking about how to squeak by with a C, which professor is the easiest, how they didn't even look at the textbook until an hour before the test, etc. Sure there are a few people who seem genuinely focused on the material & on trying to secure a good future for themselves.... but the majority are just kids who are there because it's what is expected of them. And I'm sure most of them will graduate by age 22/23, but I certainly wouldn't put them on a pedastool for it. And I go to a well respected business school. But I certainly don't see very many people there who are concerned with "ambition" and goals that go beyond passing their classes with the least amount of effort they can muster... I don't know where people get this idea that having a college degree means you are more intelligent or driven or ambitious than someone without a degree. It completely depends on the individual. I would rather be with someone who never attended college but was motivated by something he loved & can earn a decent living at that, than someone who graduated just because it was the thing to do, but is miserable in his corporate job. 3
Mme. Chaucer Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I don't care one way or the other, but I'm not offended or anything if somebody is only interested in dating / marrying someone who has completed college. It's a valid preference. People who are academics are allowed to be drawn to others who are the same. Or whatever. It doesn't matter to me any more than it matters if a person wants to be a stay at home parent or if they only want to date big boobed blondes. I have a degree (English literature - useful!) and my husband does not. My daughter struggles with getting through college but I really want her to finish one day, because staying the course that way will be a very good character building and self esteem boosting accomplishment for her, whether or not a journalism degree gets her anywhere in the job market. I do value it, though obviously it's not a deal breaker for me.
WoMann Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 People who have degrees are idiots who bough in to the system and propaganda for the Illuminati and world governments. Let these women date these guys and have stupid children.
ditzchic Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 For me, it's not so much the piece of paper that turns me on or off. It's the fact that they dedicated themselves formally to their dream for 4 or more years. It shows they are driven. And education and intellectual curiosity is important to me and I prefer someone that is on that same track as me in that respect. But I've dated guys with degrees who had no drive or dreams and just went to school because it was something they thought they should do. Turn-off. I've met guys that have never gone to school but spent a lot of time focusing on their passions. Turn-on. It's all relative. 3
Els Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I went back to school at 26 for an Accounting degree, and honestly I have to laugh at the idea of the average college student being invested in their future, passionate, motivated for success, etc. I go to class and I do not hear my classmates talking about their futures or their "passion" for the subject they're studying. I hear them talking about how to squeak by with a C, which professor is the easiest, how they didn't even look at the textbook until an hour before the test, etc. Sure there are a few people who seem genuinely focused on the material & on trying to secure a good future for themselves.... but the majority are just kids who are there because it's what is expected of them. And I'm sure most of them will graduate by age 22/23, but I certainly wouldn't put them on a pedastool for it. And I go to a well respected business school. But I certainly don't see very many people there who are concerned with "ambition" and goals that go beyond passing their classes with the least amount of effort they can muster... I don't know where people get this idea that having a college degree means you are more intelligent or driven or ambitious than someone without a degree. It completely depends on the individual. I would rather be with someone who never attended college but was motivated by something he loved & can earn a decent living at that, than someone who graduated just because it was the thing to do, but is miserable in his corporate job. I think that depends on your major. Some majors tend to attract students with generally higher levels of passion for the subject (or at least drive to push themselves to succeed even if they don't love it) than others - most notably the hard sciences (physics, engineering, compsci, etc), or medicine/law/actuarial science. (Although that could also be because people in those courses who lack passion/drive tend to not be able to make it to the end). People who do business are likely to not be terribly academic-oriented, as it isn't an academic-oriented field. I'm not even in a highly-ranked university, and most of my classmates are incredibly passionate, most of them going above and beyond the course content just 'for fun'. It's extremely heartening to see, especially after the previous course that I took (everyone was still incredibly driven there, but not out of love for the subject, rather simply out of desire for grades).
sweetjasmine Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 ' ARe you open to the fact that ALL people, with a degree or not, can be just as compelling and remarkable people? ' I agree that they are. Of course. But they're not compatible with me. I'm an academic at heart. I thrive on the sciences, constantly challenging my conventional intelligence and learning more about them. You CAN do that without a degree, but unless you're very poor, academic/scientifically-oriented people usually don't. They love university and careers that require you to have at least a degree, and I do too. Just a personal preference. I'm sure they don't earn as much as the business-savvy guy who didn't go to college and is a CEO at 30, but I don't care about that. I care about compatibility, and to me, someone who values a tertiary education (and beyond) reflects that. I feel the same way. I love school. I love studying in a formal setting. If somebody thinks all of that is useless because you can make lots of money without it, then they're not going to understand who I am and what drives me. If somebody thinks anything other than accounting, law, and medicine are a waste of time because salary is the sole factor that defines a field's worth to mankind, they're not going to get along with me very well. I view learning/education as a goal in and of itself, and if someone can't appreciate that, we're not going to be compatible. The other turn off, aside from being insecure about it, is if a person's hostile toward others about it, like "I can't stand the arrogance of people who got degrees. They think they're so smart." This, too. A frequent companion to that one is: "Well, degrees are useless unless they're in science because I know three people without a degree who make more money than you!" Way to miss the point and way to denigrate my 6 years of hard work which I found fulfilling and meaningful.
Jane2011 Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I teach at the college level and agree that some of the students between ages 18 and 23 are just there because it's what's expected of them. But most of them are not like this. Most of them are into learning and are fanatic about their grades. Some students only care about the grade, some students only care about learning. But most students are balanced and want to earn a decent grade and have really learned something or been properly corrected/helped with a weakness they have in the subject. And definitely the 'older students' (25 and above) are into it in even higher numbers than the 18-23 age group.
TheBigQuestion Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I feel the same way. I love school. I love studying in a formal setting. If somebody thinks all of that is useless because you can make lots of money without it, then they're not going to understand who I am and what drives me. If somebody thinks anything other than accounting, law, and medicine are a waste of time because salary is the sole factor that defines a field's worth to mankind, they're not going to get along with me very well. I view learning/education as a goal in and of itself, and if someone can't appreciate that, we're not going to be compatible. This, too. A frequent companion to that one is: "Well, degrees are useless unless they're in science because I know three people without a degree who make more money than you!" Way to miss the point and way to denigrate my 6 years of hard work which I found fulfilling and meaningful. It's funny how law gets thrown into this discussion for its so-called high salary. The vast majority of lawyers are middle class and will stay that way for the entirety of their careers. In about a year, I will have two mostly useless degrees, a J.D. and a Bachelors in philosophy (awesome subject). In retrospect, I really should have been a plumber, or joined the circus like I swore I would do in my high school yearbook.
setsenia Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 You can get qualificationsw beyond high school, in the form of certificates in areas like:: child care ( diploma is 3 years or so), personal training certificates and diploma, beauty therapy ( a stable profession always in demand somewhere), retail and hospitality management, among oher things. I do not think I will not earn as much as a trainer without a degree. I will be great at it, I know it if I work hard, trainers earn 70 K which is alright. I will also work at bars and clubs and cafes in my down timem because I enjoy it and for extra cash. I agree that a degree is more stable, but my passion lies elswhere, in personal training, and in my mid 20's, an exercise science degree would make me so depressed due to doing yearsd of joyless maths, that the degree would not be worth my immense suffering., Definitely true, there are plenty of good jobs that don't require a degree and I feel your pain as far as the math requirement. It's set me pretty far back from where I'd like to be for something I'm honestly never going to use in my life, lol.
Els Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 The lawyers that I know personally are earning a lot, though they work horrendous hours and landed jobs at high-prestige law firms. They earn more than doctors in general, actually. For the first 10-20 odd years, at least.
sweetjasmine Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 It's funny how law gets thrown into this discussion for its so-called high salary. The vast majority of lawyers are middle class and will stay that way for the entirety of their careers. In about a year, I will have two mostly useless degrees, a J.D. and a Bachelors in philosophy (awesome subject). In retrospect, I really should have been a plumber, or joined the circus like I swore I would do in my high school yearbook. Oh, I know. A few friends of mine who recently graduated from decent to great schools are struggling right now. One of them is thrilled to have a $40k/year job, which would be good for her if she didn't have so much debt. But the perception that law = $$$$$$$ and is therefore a "practical" and high worth field persists. Despite being over-saturated and despite being on the path to crank out even more lawyers, the field is still viewed as prestigious and "useful," which should tell everyone something about how accurate these common perceptions of various fields can be...
spookie Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I wish I'd had the balls to study what I was interested in and/or avoid college altogether. Instead I got a "useful" degree, which is my bread and butter - but I am stuck in a field I could care less about. Id totally date someone who followed a different path.
ditzchic Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 The lawyers that I know personally are earning a lot, though they work horrendous hours and landed jobs at high-prestige law firms. They earn more than doctors in general, actually. For the first 10-20 odd years, at least. I've been "dating" a lawyer for about 7 months now. I put dating in quotations because I don't know if you can really call it that. He's so busy we rarely get to see each other. Maybe twice a month and we only talk every couple of days through text. I really like him but I can't handle never seeing my man. Worst part is he wants to get exclusive. I can't commit to someone that isn't able to commit any time to me. Oh wells!
TheBigQuestion Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 The lawyers that I know personally are earning a lot, though they work horrendous hours and landed jobs at high-prestige law firms. They earn more than doctors in general, actually. For the first 10-20 odd years, at least. You can't look at a lawyer's earnings in a vacuum, especially for those who graduated in the last decade or so. For most, the amount of debt they have from school is absolutely crushing. Combine that with the fact that when you realize that most people in the Big 100 law firms are working 70-80 hours a week, they really aren't making all that much on a per-hour basis. Then add to that the fact that most small and medium sized firms (where nearly all US lawyers work) don't pay that much but typically require the same hours, and you'll catch my drift. Me, I'm hoping to land a government gig with relatively normal hours, frequent coffee breaks, guaranteed vacation time, and no need to bill 2000 hours a year. I like the study of law and think it can be (or I hope it can be) a rewarding profession, but I'd advise pretty much anyone against going unless they score over a 173 on the LSAT. Anyone who is in it primarily for the money really needs a smack upside the head. That's what being an i-banker is for.
Jane2011 Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 My first stint with college was at age 18 and 19...and I didn't care that much. I made good grades, but I didn't care about school. I was thinking about my job at a book store and later a video store, and a guy I liked. But when I went back after age 24, I was way into it. I would almost say that the time you go to college can have some effect on how much you value it. The same way reading certain books as a 10th grader vs. in your mid 20s and mid 30s can be a vastly different experience. 1
Els Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 You can't look at a lawyer's earnings in a vacuum, especially for those who graduated in the last decade or so. For most, the amount of debt they have from school is absolutely crushing. Combine that with the fact that when you realize that most people in the Big 100 law firms are working 70-80 hours a week, they really aren't making all that much on a per-hour basis. Then add to that the fact that most small and medium sized firms (where nearly all US lawyers work) don't pay that much but typically require the same hours, and you'll catch my drift. Me, I'm hoping to land a government gig with relatively normal hours, frequent coffee breaks, guaranteed vacation time, and no need to bill 2000 hours a year. I like the study of law and think it can be (or I hope it can be) a rewarding profession, but I'd advise pretty much anyone against going unless they score over a 173 on the LSAT. Anyone who is in it primarily for the money really needs a smack upside the head. That's what being an i-banker is for. Oh, I know. I just mean that medicine is worse in that aspect.
stillafool Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 You can't look at a lawyer's earnings in a vacuum, especially for those who graduated in the last decade or so. For most, the amount of debt they have from school is absolutely crushing. Combine that with the fact that when you realize that most people in the Big 100 law firms are working 70-80 hours a week, they really aren't making all that much on a per-hour basis. Then add to that the fact that most small and medium sized firms (where nearly all US lawyers work) don't pay that much but typically require the same hours, and you'll catch my drift. Me, I'm hoping to land a government gig with relatively normal hours, frequent coffee breaks, guaranteed vacation time, and no need to bill 2000 hours a year. I like the study of law and think it can be (or I hope it can be) a rewarding profession, but I'd advise pretty much anyone against going unless they score over a 173 on the LSAT. Anyone who is in it primarily for the money really needs a smack upside the head. That's what being an i-banker is for. What about corporate lawyers? How do they fair?
TheBigQuestion Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 What about corporate lawyers? How do they fair? "Corporate" law is extremely broad. A solo practitioner whose practice centers on incorporating new small businesses is a corporate lawyer. A lawyer who works in a big firm doing securities litigation is also a corporate lawyer. Both can become wildly successful depending on if they possess the relatively rare gift of "rainmaking." The latter, however, is much more likely to be lucrative from the getgo.
CarrieT Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 My boyfriend loves leearning, and he is very good at understanding concepts, and he knows how to fix problems and objects around the house .... He is no silly. The main difference, is that his gramma and spelling are shocking. He can use a good vocabulary whilst talking, verbally speaing.. but he cannot exactly put together a well written letter, or read a novel. He hates that. I think you and your boyfriend are very well suited to each other.
TheFinalWord Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 When you come back can you please tell me of your experiences with people with and without degrees? Surely you have met smart people without degrees, who are driven and great people to talk to? In a partner do you need a women with a PHD, lol? I agree with a lot of your post. No, I don't need a woman with a PhD. Actually, the number one woman I respect, my mom, does not have any degree at all. Yet I often run ideas past her! LOL so there you go I actually never thought I would even get a master's in my life, let alone a PhD. You never know where life is gonna take you.
zengirl Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 The key is reading. If you read, you will learn proper grammar and spelling by osmosis. A few people on here might take that to heart. This is true, but only to a degree. There are many people (children are generally studied but if they never learned) who cannot successfully learn spelling and grammar without explicit instruction. It really depends on a combination of your natural intelligences (linguistic and mathematical) and your experiences. "Just reading" isn't enough for everyone, unless they get the basics, which everyone should in K-12 but not everyone does, sadly. Bad spellers also tend to STAY bad spellers. Especially in older generations since spelling was taught completely incorrectly till very recently --- the whole notion of "sound it out" is bizarre for English spelling. Most spelling is a visual exercise, and visual memory and skill is far more important to it that phonological memory and skill. FWIW. Also, spelling and handwriting have absolutely NO correlation with IQ. Grammar does, though it is more heavily linked with mathematical intelligence, believe it or not! Still, reading is great. Most people just don't dig deeply into how others learn, and then people who struggle feel they're missing some secret others know --- they kind of are but they shouldn't feel badly about it; it's just most people subconsciously pick up the tools they need. Formal education helps those people more than the naturally intelligent, though people who are naturally intelligent are more drive to go on for further education, ironically. While college doesn't "make" one intelligent, most intelligent people (the majority) are driven to go to college these days. That's where the stereotype comes from likely. I don't care one way or the other, but I'm not offended or anything if somebody is only interested in dating / marrying someone who has completed college. It's a valid preference. People who are academics are allowed to be drawn to others who are the same. Or whatever. It doesn't matter to me any more than it matters if a person wants to be a stay at home parent or if they only want to date big boobed blondes. Right. I'm fine with all of those. I don't get why people want to cite what preferences others should/shouldn't have, unless it's clearly hindering them on an individual level. I value college and never dated men without degrees. It was something I ticked as essential on OKC but otherwise never consciously "filtered" in terms of asking people whether they went to college. I couldn't have imagined marrying someone who didn't go to college personally (and hubby did) but not because of intelligence. Because academia and education are my life, and someone who didn't care about those things wouldn't care about most of my day. I don't understand the, "College doesn't make you smart," arguments because. . . did anyone say it did? Most people I know understand that you make YOURSELF smart, whether by college or outside of it (truly smart people generally need intellectual outlets in addition to college, frankly), but that the majority of smart people choose to go to college because it appeals to intellectuals more than non-intellectuals (though some non-intellectuals certainly go now!).
H0peless Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 I have over 90 college credits but only have an associate's degree. I like to think I am an intelligent person. To whoever said college is a scam, it's so true. Unless you are sent away to a University straight out of high school with a set plan and you know what you want to do, chances are you will struggle. The way I was raised was to get your education. I went to community college and played volleyball there for two years, transferred to a local University and went there for 2 more years. Ended up wanting to change my major and took 2 years off deciding what to do. During that time, and right now I wait tables. I'm a waitress at a VERY busy, high volume restaurant with a great reputation. I MAKE $40,000 a YEAR HERE!! I live on my own and can support myself... waiting tables! And people feel sorry for me, that I'm "just a waitress" I'm back on the wagon, taking classes and will be done with school by the time I'm 30 Haha because even though I'm making good money, one thing a degree offers is a chance at a career that allows a stable salary, and benefits. Something waiting tables does not offer It does anger me though, that I get looked down on. It hurts my self esteem really. Because like I said, I have almost enough college credits for a Bachelors.. but I got side tracked and took some time off and am still here waiting tables. Mind you, a lot of people I work with also have "real" day jobs and wait tables still for the extra cash, or just because they like it. And many of them have bachelor degrees and can't find a job (I live in MI), OR they are pursuing a Masters degree!! DON'T JUDGE YOUR WAITER/WAITRESS!!! Or anyone, for that matter
johan Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) The next girl I go out with need only have 98.6 degrees. That will be good enough for me. I'll settle for 37 degrees if she's European. Edited March 21, 2012 by johan 3
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