Degrees: Deal breaker?

[Lecturer]

College/University degrees are a poor indicator of competency or intelligence, IMO.

 

I work as a software engineer, and I earn a very comfortable sum money. I went to university for engineering but never completed my degree. I had financial hardships after my 3rd year and some wonderful bureaucracy prevented me from being able to complete it (no student loans if your parents make too much money, even if you're completely estranged from them and/or they're massively in debt and couldn't help if they wanted to). Since I couldn't get loans I decided to work until I had money... but then family complications hit, and ultimately I found myself years later moved in with my wife (then fiance), ready to move on with my life.

 

I have genius-level IQ (if you're counting), and I'm always happy to debate politics, philosophy, or anything else that floats your boat. I feel it would be impossible to discriminate against someone for not having a degree without being terribly hypocritical.

 

Besides, using hard, unwavering benchmarks or thresholds as judgement of a person or their character seems like a fairly ignorant thing to do. Then again, I'm not in the dating world, so I've never had to cull an unruly pile of potential mates.

[Leigh 87]

Again...it will change. It changes with every woman when she gets ready to start a family. Having ambition will be important then...living day to day is not how you build a life with someone...kids or no kids.

 

 

 

But she still has a job and pays the bills, and had hobbies and interest... and she can probably hold a decent conversation with you, without you knowing she has no degree.

 

Do you just need the financial side of things? You could marry a rich girl with no degree, and be financially secure. The girl does not have to be a bum if she is not uber ambitious - maybe she has a full schedule, with a full time but flexible, less demanding job, and a vartity of hobbies and interests?

 

She may even know more in more areas than you do, in fields such as politics, among other things *gasp* without even having a degree!

[kaylan]

So I am a bum because I am just a personaltrainer, who will soon make as much money as a person with a degree ( providing I am good at my j ob, which I will be because I believe I can do whatever I put my mind to if I am passionate about it).

 

 

Geez. People without degrees and who are not 100% career dominated are " bums" ? I suppose people like this smoke pot, hate learning, reading books, and are only interested in partying,lazing about, and working in a cafe their whole lives?

 

 

I want to open my own personal training business one day. I also research and enjoy learning about a varity of topics. I read in my down time, not magazines. I plan to make good money 2 years from now. Am I less ambitious than a person with a degree?

Didnt I answer this before? I said as long as you have ambition and goals thats a good thing.

 

Tigress was saying she didnt need a guy who had ambition or success. All the guys I know who live day to day and have no goals are typically lazy and wont amount to much as life partners. Hence my opinion before.

 

You are the exact opposite of that. You have drive and youre doing something I totally dig. I love fitness...so wanting to have your own personal training business is great.

[kaylan]

WOW.

 

So you think that every single woman wants to settle down one day and start a family?

 

You are unbelievable.

Can you not read? I said with or without kids. Again...once you hit a certain age..ambition becomes important...Not someone who cant look past one day.

 

Stopping to smell the roses does NOT mean someone shouldnt have goals or plans for the future.

[kaylan]

But she still has a job and pays the bills, and had hobbies and interest... and she can probably hold a decent conversation with you, without you knowing she has no degree.

 

Do you just need the financial side of things? You could marry a rich girl with no degree, and be financially secure. The girl does not have to be a bum if she is not uber ambitious - maybe she has a full schedule, with a full time but flexible, less demanding job, and a vartity of hobbies and interests?

 

She may even know more in more areas than you do, in fields such as politics, among other things *gasp* without even having a degree!

Im not talking about a degree here. Im talking about ambition and goals...not a degree. Im not talking about just money either.

 

You are arguing something Im not even bringing up

[Leigh 87]

College/University degrees are a poor indicator of competency or intelligence, IMO.

 

I work as a software engineer, and I earn a very comfortable sum money. I went to university for engineering but never completed my degree. I had financial hardships after my 3rd year and some wonderful bureaucracy prevented me from being able to complete it (no student loans if your parents make too much money, even if you're completely estranged from them and/or they're massively in debt and couldn't help if they wanted to). Since I couldn't get loans I decided to work until I had money... but then family complications hit, and ultimately I found myself years later moved in with my wife (then fiance), ready to move on with my life.

 

I have genius-level IQ (if you're counting), and I'm always happy to debate politics, philosophy, or anything else that floats your boat. I feel it would be impossible to discriminate against someone for not having a degree without being terribly hypocritical.

 

Besides, using hard, unwavering benchmarks or thresholds as judgement of a person or their character seems like a fairly ignorant thing to do. Then again, I'm not in the dating world, so I've never had to cull an unruly pile of potential mates.

 

 

 

 

THERE you go. Thanks for posting:) Yet ANOTHER person who is successful, who has not got a degree ( and could probably out do most people with degrees, intelectually speaking, and in terms of knowing more about a broader range of subjects!!)

[tigressA]

Can you not read? I said with or without kids. Again...once you hit a certain age..ambition becomes important...Not someone who cant look past one day.

 

Stopping to smell the roses does NOT mean someone shouldnt have goals or plans for the future.

 

Yeah...and did I ever say I wanted to settle down, kids or no kids? No. In fact, I stated the opposite very clearly. For you to pointedly tell me that I will change my mind is insulting.

[Star Gazer]

One thing I've found is that people who don't have degrees feel insecure about it. They tend to disqualify themselves.

 

This. This is actually a bigger issue than the fact they don't actually have a degree.

[kaylan]

Yeah...and did I ever say I wanted to settle down, kids or no kids? No. In fact, I stated the opposite very clearly.

So youre fine dating a guy with no goals who works as a cashier at Walmart and wanted to do that for the rest of his life?

 

Because 10 bucks says you wont stand for that once you hit 30...even though you are talking about success and ambition meaning nothing to you. I have known plenty of older women, and read plenty from the older women here...without fail every single older female has wanted a guy to at least have so life goals.

 

Its not about the money, or the degree, but its about living past day 1 and actually being able to do something with yourself. I know you say success and ambition dont matter at all, but I have yet to see a woman of any age put up with a guy for to long who hasnt had either.

 

But suit yourself...Im just saying I dont buy it...and 5 years from now youll be in a relationship most likely with a dude who has goals and drive...because you dont seem like the low class type of chick who dates bums with no life direction.

[Leigh 87]

Im not talking about a degree here. Im talking about ambition and goals...not a degree. Im not talking about just money either.

 

You are arguing something Im not even bringing up

 

 

I misunderstood. I have tried to change my posting style, have you noticed? My paragraphs are longer with less bold haha. When I get to the point in a few years where I can be sucessful opening my business, I will probably opt to do a cert 4 or even diploma in business.

 

This certificate and diploma I am referring to is not a degree, it is through an institute called " Tafe" here in AUS. You can get certificates, and you learn the same volume as in Uni/college, but it is shorter, and enabls people to do far better in their careers or lives without obtainig a degree.

[kaylan]

Originally Posted by johan

One thing I've found is that people who don't have degrees feel insecure about it. They tend to disqualify themselves.

This as well.

 

I also find that a lot of people without degrees have some reverse snobbery against those with them. Saying crap like "degrees arent hard to get" and "I know dumb people with degrees" or how "you dont need them to do this work". Well if thats the case smart guy, go out and get one....am i right? If they are so easy then go get one and increase your earning potential and quality of life.

 

I misunderstood. I have tried to change my posting style, have you noticed? My paragraphs are longer with less bold haha. When I get to the point in a few years where I can be sucessful opening my business, I will probably opt to do a cert 4 or even diploma in business.

I have noticed. I actually smiled. It makes your post much easier to follow

 

This certificate and diploma I am referring to is not a degree, it is through an institute called " Tafe" here in AUS. You can get certificates, and you learn the same volume as in Uni/college, but it is shorter, and enabls people to do far better in their careers or lives without obtainig a degree.

Great...we have those in the US too. Just stay on the ball and stick to your plan. Youre obviously very passionate about this, so I know you can do it. Edited March 21, 2012 by kaylan

[tigressA]

This. This is actually a bigger issue than the fact they don't actually have a degree.

 

Yes, that is annoying. I just think, "Man, you made this life choice. Own it. At least try to spin it positively instead of being ashamed of it."

 

And Kaylan: I really don't care about what a guy does to earn money as long as it's legal and he doesn't struggle to support himself. What is most important is that he is a good person and treats me with the respect and love I feel I am entitled to. That is what gets me through life, that is what makes me happy--more than money or an otherwise lucrative/successful venture ever could. You can't take that stuff with you when you die. I will most certainly not be lamenting the fact that I should've gone for more 'successful' guys while I'm on my deathbed.

 

Looking down on people who work $10/hr jobs as 'being bums with no life direction' says a lot more about you and others who share your attitude than it ever could about those who work those jobs. My take on it is: There are always going to be demand for low-wage jobs. I respect people who are in those positions. To me it shows that they are at least willing to work instead of truly sitting on their butt doing nothing.

 

You can believe that I am spouting bulls*it, I'll change my mind in 5 years, whatever else. I'll live my life the way I want to, and I know I'll be happy throughout. End of story.

Edited March 21, 2012 by tigressA

[kaylan]

Yes, that is annoying. I just think, "Man, you made this life choice. Own it. At least try to spin it positively instead of being ashamed of it."

 

And Kaylan: I really don't care about what a guy does to earn money as long as it's legal and he doesn't struggle to support himself. What is most important is that he is a good person and treats me with the respect and love I feel I am entitled to. That is what gets me through life, that is what makes me happy--more than money or an otherwise lucrative/successful venture ever could. You can't take that stuff with you when you die. I will most certainly not be lamenting the fact that I should've gone for more 'successful' guys while I'm on my deathbed.

Thats the thing...the people without goals are usually more likely to be the ones who can barely support themselves. Again, its not about being rich...but its about living comfortably and living with passion. You just proved me right by saying you want to date someone who doesnt struggle. Someone who doesnt struggle is usually a success in some way

 

Looking down on people who work $10/hr jobs as 'being bums with no life direction' says a lot more about you and others who share your attitude than it ever could about those who work those jobs.

Who said I was looking down on them? I feel bad for them more than anything. I know what it feels like to struggle and its a shame that some people dont do more to get themselves out of that pit. Having no goals and being stuck in a low wage job even though you want out is the epitome of lack of life direction. Thats an accurate assessment.

 

And struggling to support yourself and barely getting by is kind of bummy. You have to live cheaply and bummy to get by. Ive done it..and I wish more people would do what they need so they dont have to do it. So I could not care less what you think about my attitude. Have you ever truly struggled? If you did I dont think youd be so OK with people not maximizing their potential.

 

You can believe that I am spouting bulls*it, I'll change my mind in 5 years, whatever else. I'll live my life the way I want to, and I know I'll be happy throughout. End of story.

Good for you.

[tigressA]

I know what it feels like to struggle too. I certainly did not grow up with any real advantages. I took steps to climb myself out of that, I'm comfortable.

 

Not everyone working a low-wage job is struggling and living a 'bummy', 'cheap' life. I know people who work in jobs that pay a couple bucks over minimum wage but they are not struggling--they know how to manage themselves without making a lot of money. They're smart with it. I certainly wouldn't mind dating someone like that.

 

And living life with passion doesn't immediately and always equate to being passionate about your job/career. There are so many other things you can be passionate about.

 

F*ck, I need to go to bed now. Good thing I don't have to be at work until noon.

Edited March 21, 2012 by tigressA

[Desensitized]

I don't know why this is worth arguing even. If someone doesn't want to be with you because you don't have a degree, but you're the perfect guy/girl for them, then that's just silly. I'm sure everyone has their reasons for not having a degree. And also, there are so many worthless degrees out there that I find it laughable that some people think that they are "above" someone without a degree. Degrees don't measure your worth, just sayin'.

 

/thread closed

[ScreamingTrees]

The bold is such bull. Thats so gonna change when you are ready to settle down. You wont want some bum who lacks drive and doesnt try to be successful.

 

 

Phds are sexy = money is sex

 

I wasn't going to post or quote anyone in this thread, but, honestly, do you really think that everyone has the same standards of "success"? Do you believe that someone who owns their own home is particularly successful?

 

What is success to you? Anyone could save for a home over several years, even with the ****tiest job..

[kaylan]

I know what it feels like to struggle too. I certainly did not grow up with any real advantages. I took steps to climb myself out of that, I'm comfortable.

Something we have in common.

Not everyone working a low-wage job is struggling and living a 'bummy', 'cheap' life. I know people who work in jobs that pay a couple bucks over minimum wage but they are not struggling--they know how to manage themselves without making a lot of money. They're smart with it. I certainly wouldn't mind dating someone like that.

Oh yay...lets argue the "every" vs "many".

 

No not everyone working a low wage job lives cheaply, but most poor people who live barely within their means are low wage earners. Lets be real here. If they werent then most people wouldnt be trying to avoid ending up in that social class.

 

And just because someone can take care of themselves on a low wage and not struggle, does not mean thats where they want to be. Most people want to have the ability to take care of themselves and still have a good amount of disposable income left over. That doesnt really happen with low wages.

And living life with passion doesn't immediately and always equate to being passionate about your job/career. There are so many other things you can be passionate about.

 

F*ck, I need to go to bed now. Good thing I don't have to be at work until noon.

No, living with passion doesnt always tie into career....for many people it doesnt...however I think it should tie in more often. If you are going to do something for 8 hours a day, why not do something you love so you can truly excel at it and become successful?

 

I personally feel that the main reason a lot of people become complacent about their careers and dont end up becoming the successes that they have the potential to become is because they dont like what they do.

 

Tying in your passion into your career is a great way to lead a happy life...if you are going to spend 40 hrs a week over the next 30 years doing something...why not do something you love?

I wasn't going to post or quote anyone in this thread, but, honestly, do you really think that everyone has the same standards of "success"? Do you believe that someone who owns their own home is particularly successful?

 

What is success to you? Anyone could save for a home over several years, even with the ****tiest job..

Oh please...Why am I gonna even bother with you? When did I say simply owning a home makes you successful? Dont put words in my mouth buddy. Plenty of people own homes but barely make it by and are buried under a mountain of debt. I think most Americans have a common idea of what success is.

 

To many it means not struggling from pay check to pay check, having enough cash to live comfortably, and having enough disposable income to have some fun more than just once in a while.

Edited March 21, 2012 by kaylan

[Els]

' ARe you open to the fact that ALL people, with a degree or not, can be just as compelling and remarkable people? '

 

I agree that they are. Of course.

 

But they're not compatible with me. I'm an academic at heart. I thrive on the sciences, constantly challenging my conventional intelligence and learning more about them. You CAN do that without a degree, but unless you're very poor, academic/scientifically-oriented people usually don't. They love university and careers that require you to have at least a degree, and I do too. Just a personal preference.

 

I'm sure they don't earn as much as the business-savvy guy who didn't go to college and is a CEO at 30, but I don't care about that. I care about compatibility, and to me, someone who values a tertiary education (and beyond) reflects that.

[Professor X]

People without a degree should be shot.

People with a degree from college should be shot twice - extra bullet for scamming the system!

 

DEATH TO ALL WHO OPPOSE ME!

[Untouchable_Fire]

Unfortunately, there are plenty of elitist a**holes out there who truly believe interaction with those who have degrees is more 'elevated', somehow 'better', than with those who lack degrees. Talking to those people, the only stimulation I ever felt was from the strong urge to punch them in their faces.

That feeling has become stronger ever since I started working in my current field. Many people I speak to who have been to college in the last 10 years shouldn't have ever been accepted. And these same people think they are so intelligent just because they finished college. That is far from a difficult thing to do these days and I just laugh at those who think it still means so much. A Bachelor's is the new HS diploma.

 

My career has been in sales, and my coworkers tend to be an intelligent and pretty conservative bunch. Most have degrees but not all. In our industry people are weighed and measured every day and by butt is kicked practically every day by a high school dropout. This guy is the smartest rep we have, but didn't even finish highschool. He outsells everybody.

 

Funny thing is that he got his job because we bought his company. Otherwise, you can't work here without a 4 year degree as of 1999.

 

Anyways.... I've noticed that intellectual elitists tend to flock in areas where you can't measure performance. Also... the more liberal the area you live... the more effete snobs you are going to have. Portland is a perfect example.

[Jane2011]

' ARe you open to the fact that ALL people, with a degree or not, can be just as compelling and remarkable people? '

 

I agree that they are. Of course.

 

But they're not compatible with me. I'm an academic at heart. I thrive on the sciences, constantly challenging my conventional intelligence and learning more about them. You CAN do that without a degree, but unless you're very poor, academic/scientifically-oriented people usually don't. They love university and careers that require you to have at least a degree, and I do too. Just a personal preference.

 

I'm sure they don't earn as much as the business-savvy guy who didn't go to college and is a CEO at 30, but I don't care about that. I care about compatibility, and to me, someone who values a tertiary education (and beyond) reflects that.

 

 

Agree with the above. I don't require that a person have a degree, but I prefer it. And even if I would go out with anybody of any education level if I were very attracted to him, it's rare that I do find myself attracted to non-degree holders, and it doesn't have to do with how smart they are or are not. I've talked to a lot of non-degree holders who I can tell are very smart. And a lot of men and women alike did well for themselves even without a degree, sometimes even better for themselves than people who have degrees. It's more about compatibility of values, interests, and background. I value formal education even if it doesn't lead to high earnings. I value formal education even if it leads to some debt.

 

Also, lol, these education threads get so scary and hostile.

 

Most people just want someone who is compatible with them, and your education-level-attainment is a characteristic of you just like anything else. It's not that much different from a 6'2" person saying they want someone who's close in height to them because it feels more natural that way. Or a person who likes the outdoors to say they want someone who also does.

 

I said in an earlier post that I wouldn't mind dating someone who doesn't have a degree as long as he isn't insecure about it. There's a guy who likes me now who doesn't have a degree, and when he told me about it, I could tell he was insecure about it. That's not why I am not into him, but it's a turn off that he's insecure about it. The other turn off, aside from being insecure about it, is if a person's hostile toward others about it, like "I can't stand the arrogance of people who got degrees. They think they're so smart."

 

I dated a guy last year who only did high school, and I don't think he and I would have worked out in the long run for various reasons, but I liked that he 1) wasn't insecure about not having gone to college, and 2) wasn't hostile toward people who did.

[Plump]

Human females with degrees are as useless as **** on a pavement ( nothing can grow on it ). My friend has a wife, who has a BS degree in management and can't find work for almost 4 years. useless slut she is!

[Taramere]

I think an important part of being a professional involves making clients or patients feel comfortable and giving them information they need in a way that doesn't involve patronising them. University doesn't tend to teach people those skills. Having a social circle that comprises people from a variety of backgrounds does.

 

I know quite a few people who would easily have been smart enough to become lawyers or doctors if they were so inclined...but who just didn't gravitate towards the academic environment. That said, if somebody is really chippy about the fact that they haven't gone to university then I'm probably going to avoid spending much social time with them. It's too easy, in a situation like that, to let somebody else's issues become your issues.

[stillafool]

I don't give a s*it about degrees, or being really ambitious/successful. Ironically enough, super-ambitious guys with Master's and PhD.s in subjects like engineering/science/tech are really attracted to me.

 

 

You know I see this alot. I've noticed this when socializing with educated professionals that the super ambitious guys are attracted to the women with less education or without a college degree. Of course, these women, like you, are very goodlooking.

[Untouchable_Fire]

You know I see this alot. I've noticed this when socializing with educated professionals that the super ambitious guys are attracted to the women with less education or without a college degree. Of course, these women, like you, are very goodlooking.

 

Ambitious people in general tend to value looks more in my experience. Some of the most shallow and nitpicky people I've ever met were ambitious ladies.