how on earth are people ok with this?

[sid3]

All around the cobbler's bench the monkey chased the weasel ....yeah I'm a bit bored too.

 

What's up Lady!!!

[RedRobin]

I think I'm going to have to go into LS Anonymous soon. Is there a 12 step program I can sign up for?

 

I did say I was gonna get off my soapbox.

 

Me and Zen both gotta get in the last word (it's ok Zengirl, I still love ya!)

[sid3]

Everything in moderation, too much LS isn't good for you. Sometimes its better to walk away before getting stuck, like a hair in a biscuit...

[FitChick]

I've been both RedRobin and zengirl.

 

When I was young and insecure, I wanted exclusivity immediately because I feared competition. If a man I was dating was also dating someone else, I feared he'd pick her over me because I believed I wasn't good enough, wasn't lovable and didn't deserve love. I was always anxious wondering if he liked me and how much. If he didn't dump me, I figured he eventually would so I sabotaged the relationship and fulfilled my "prophecy."

 

After many Lefkoe Method sessions I eliminated all of my negative and core beliefs about men, love, relationships and myself. Now, when I date my concern is more "Will I like him? Is he good enough for me?" I am more relaxed in my approach to dating in general. If he wants to date other women, I don't worry about it too much if we haven't discussed exclusivity. I leave open the possibility that by comparing me to other women, if he chooses me it's because he liked me more than those others. Not that he didn't have anyone else so I was better than no one. If I get dumped, I may be unhappy for a short time but then I figure why pine over someone who doesn't want me? It just means there is someone better for me who wants a woman like me.

[PhillyDude]

Dunno, what do you suppose he thinks when he sees you sitting on there?

 

Women are only supposed to go back online after a date, NOT MEN.

 

 

Come on, don't act like you didn't know that-lol

[RedRobin]

When I was young and insecure, I wanted exclusivity immediately because I feared competition. If a man I was dating was also dating someone else, I feared he'd pick her over me because I believed I wasn't good enough, wasn't lovable and didn't deserve love. I was always anxious wondering if he liked me and how much. If he didn't dump me, I figured he eventually would so I sabotaged the relationship and fulfilled my "prophecy." .

 

This is not me.

 

I'm going to resist the urge to get the argument re-started...

Edited March 24, 2012 by RedRobin

[zengirl]

Experience?

 

Plus I don't need to pile up dates like a horshoe crab just to say I can.

 

 

Me and Zen both gotta get in the last word (it's ok Zengirl, I still love ya!)

 

It's not that I necessarily need to get in the last word (in this case) but that I think it's rude that you necessarily characterize everyone who has a different dating style than you as having some sort of "problem." They can't focus, they need to pile up dates, etc. I never piled up dates to say I could (I turned down more than I accepted by far) but perhaps I met more people who I had initial interest in, where the feeling was mutual, than you have.

 

I still think one of the primary differences between those who date a lot (including multi-dating) and those who don't is simply introversion/extroversion, how fun they think dating itself is, and how they socialize as a whole. I'm sure there are some dishonest people out there who can't focus and also multi-date, but there are dishonest people out there who can't focus who will be exclusive right away too. I've certainly seen both.

 

I think FitChick's description fits many people who seek exclusivity right away -- though not all, of course, as there are a myriad of reasons. FWIW: She essentially did to you and your perspective what you've been trying to do to multidaters this whole thread, and you didn't like it because you felt, "That's not how I feel!" and that's what I've been telling you -- as a past multidater -- as you tried unsuccessfully to paint multidaters with the brush of what views and reasons YOU think they have.

[silvermercy]

In my dating experience, all multidaters (the ones to admit it at least) were sleeping with other women at the time they were dating me. One had a FWB, too. (It was a small town I was living back then and it was easy to hear the gossip).

[RedRobin]

It's not that I necessarily need to get in the last word (in this case) but that I think it's rude that you necessarily characterize everyone who has a different dating style than you as having some sort of "problem." They can't focus, they need to pile up dates, etc. I never piled up dates to say I could (I turned down more than I accepted by far) but perhaps I met more people who I had initial interest in, where the feeling was mutual, than you have.

 

I still think one of the primary differences between those who date a lot (including multi-dating) and those who don't is simply introversion/extroversion, how fun they think dating itself is, and how they socialize as a whole. I'm sure there are some dishonest people out there who can't focus and also multi-date, but there are dishonest people out there who can't focus who will be exclusive right away too. I've certainly seen both.

 

I think FitChick's description fits many people who seek exclusivity right away -- though not all, of course, as there are a myriad of reasons. FWIW: She essentially did to you and your perspective what you've been trying to do to multidaters this whole thread, and you didn't like it because you felt, "That's not how I feel!" and that's what I've been telling you -- as a past multidater -- as you tried unsuccessfully to paint multidaters with the brush of what views and reasons YOU think they have.

 

This discussion has illustrated only what non-multidaters don't like about multidaters.

 

You have illustrated yours. You think it is 'odd'. FitChick (if I read her correctly) thinks it is insecure.

 

Good for both of you. Keep in mind that I encourage my male friends to have female friends. Not that I have anything to justify to you... it is just that it kind of doesn't fit with the impression that I'm insecure.

 

I don't detect lack of security in any of the people who have posted here. What I detect is they don't like being lied to.

 

You (and others) don't like me calling or creating the appearance in people's minds that multidaters are lying, attention-whoring date mongers who can't make up their minds.

 

Got it.

 

But the fact remains... you stopped dating multiple men within the first few weeks of meeting your H... so you and I actually have more in common than we have differences.

 

I would still argue that multidating doesn't create an environment of intimacy and trust, and that is why it is no mystery why dating sites encourage it.

 

They don't want people to actually find anyone. I take that back. They do, but just enough to create the random success that keeps people coming back and paying their fees... but not enough to make their business model obsolete.

 

Because if everyone found someone there and stayed with them, they wouldn't have anymore customers.

 

Anyway, I feel I've granted enough leeway for other people's opinions on this matter enough. And said so in earlier posts. I even said "I'm not going to restart this argument."

 

So... go ahead. Post one more time and tell me I'm full of sh*t, that me and every other person who wants to focus on one person as being insecure, introverted, and unsuccessful in the dating world and that is why they hate multidating.

 

Be my guest. I'm rather tired of the debate.

 

I think I'll take this discussion up on another thread or take it to the polyamory discussion... because I'm seeing more similarities between multidaters and polyamory than I am multidating and monogamy, to be completely honest.

[oaks]

paint multidaters with the brush of what views and reasons YOU think they have.

 

This seems to be a common theme in these multi-dating discussions - people who are against the idea doing armchair-psychology on those who do and getting it wrong.

 

I don't have a problem with people having views for or against multi-dating, and clearly not everyone is compatible (in a dating-sense) with everyone else, but the whole "you must be like this if you do that" thing gets old after a while and does nothing to help the debate.

[kaylan]

So... go ahead. Post one more time and tell me I'm full of sh*t, that me and every other person who wants to focus on one person as being insecure, introverted, and unsuccessful in the dating world and that is why they hate multidating.

Because you didnt sit here and ramble on in this thread about how all multidaters are sleeping around and lying to everyone. We are just dirty slutty liars right? Dont whine when someone treats you the way you treat them.

 

Can you not see the irony in your response?

I think I'll take this discussion up on another thread or take it to the polyamory discussion... because I'm seeing more similarities between multidaters and polyamory than I am multidating and monogamy, to be completely honest.

Huh?

 

Most multidaters are seeking monogamous relationships. So to compare it to polyamory is simply dumb in my opinion. And polyamory is about carrying on more than one loving relationship at once, not just having dates with more than one person.

It's not that I necessarily need to get in the last word (in this case) but that I think it's rude that you necessarily characterize everyone who has a different dating style than you as having some sort of "problem." They can't focus, they need to pile up dates, etc. I never piled up dates to say I could (I turned down more than I accepted by far) but perhaps I met more people who I had initial interest in, where the feeling was mutual, than you have.

 

I still think one of the primary differences between those who date a lot (including multi-dating) and those who don't is simply introversion/extroversion, how fun they think dating itself is, and how they socialize as a whole. I'm sure there are some dishonest people out there who can't focus and also multi-date, but there are dishonest people out there who can't focus who will be exclusive right away too. I've certainly seen both.

 

I think FitChick's description fits many people who seek exclusivity right away -- though not all, of course, as there are a myriad of reasons. FWIW: She essentially did to you and your perspective what you've been trying to do to multidaters this whole thread, and you didn't like it because you felt, "That's not how I feel!" and that's what I've been telling you -- as a past multidater -- as you tried unsuccessfully to paint multidaters with the brush of what views and reasons YOU think they have.

This.

 

(10 characters)

Edited March 24, 2012 by kaylan

[RedRobin]

Because you didnt sit here and ramble on in this thread about how all multidaters are sleeping around and lying to everyone. We are just dirty slutty liars right? Dont whine when someone treats you the way you treat them.

 

Can you not see the irony in your response?

Huh?

 

Most multidaters are seeking monogamous relationships. So to compare it to polyamory is simply immature and stupid in my opinion.

This.

 

(10 characters)

 

I'm not whining at all.

 

I've acknowledged more than once that you both have your own style....but also pointing out that the approach that Zengirl used that ultimately ended up in marriage is MUCH closer to the approach a non-multidater uses than the one she keeps pushing.

 

AND, her H wasn't multidating when he met her and dated her. Does anyone see the irony in THAT?

 

If you like dating people simultaneously and you are open about it (and are ok with your partners doing that too), then perhaps you are closer to a polyamorous person... not a monogamous person. Has that ever occurred to you?

 

Having been around the block myself a bit, I'm finding those who are ok with extended multidating (and are open about it to their partners) have more in common with those who are polyamorous... the rest (ie the ones who multidate and don't tell you) are just liars. Which is what I don't like.

 

...and regarding the definition of what polyamory is... I'd argue that the skills you need to successfully do polyamory are the same ones you'd need to develop to do multidating successfully and honestly.

 

The fact that so many multidaters don't want to be open, and don't see the need for it unless 'pressed' is at the heart of this debate... and is root of concerns by those who don't multidate.

Edited March 24, 2012 by RedRobin

[zengirl]

This discussion has illustrated only what non-multidaters don't like about multidaters.

 

You have illustrated yours. You think it is 'odd'. FitChick (if I read her correctly) thinks it is insecure.

 

To be clear, I think it is odd to have an expectation for a person (especially one that is clearly not the social norm) without expressing that expectation in an implicit or explicit way. I think if you WANT to only date one person at a time, even in the casual stages, and it's that important to you, then you need to express that in some way so that you're on the same page.

 

I don't think your way of dating is necessarily odd -- I think your desire to shove it on everyone else to the point where you need to insult anyone with a different style than you is odd. FWIW. I've not criticized your style at all, except for your need to believe that anyone who doesn't follow your rules is lying or being a bad person, despite exclusivity from the first date not being the current social norm and despite most people acknowledging that they generally need to have a conversation of some kind to be sure of exclusivity in most cases.

 

FWIW, I don't care how YOU want to date. What I think is odd is treating anyone who does not follow "your rules" innately as somehow wrong in any myriad of the ways you've listed.

 

Good for both of you. Keep in mind that I encourage my male friends to have female friends. Not that I have anything to justify to you... it is just that it kind of doesn't fit with the impression that I'm insecure.

 

What does that have to do with anything? (Serious question)

 

I don't detect lack of security in any of the people who have posted here. What I detect is they don't like being lied to.

 

Again, how is dating multiple people lying? You say that people need to lie to "juggle" them, but I'm saying, as someone who's had the experience in multi-dating, that it does not feel like juggling---it is not difficult, no lies are necessary, and many people who are dating multiple people will be totally honest with you if you ask them if they're seeing others! Apparently, you don't believe that's possible, and you just think I'm lying now, because you've never addressed those comments and just keep saying, "But they have to lie!"

 

I HATE being lied to. I'm a huge proponent of honesty and have been one, many times, on this site, on a variety of issues. Honesty in life is probably my #1 priority. To me, it is (mildly) dishonest to expect something from someone without telling them. When I dated, I didn't expect men to see others or not see others -- it was up to them -- and unless they expressed their expectations one way or the other, I had no need, nor opportunity to lie to them about it!

 

You (and others) don't like me calling or creating the appearance in people's minds that multidaters are lying, attention-whoring date mongers who can't make up their minds.

 

Yes, I dislike that. Because that's not true.

 

But the fact remains... you stopped dating multiple men within the first few weeks of meeting your H... so you and I actually have more in common than we have differences.

 

Most multi-daters will stop dating others when they meet someone they really click with and that person has the time and drive to see them often, etc. I am not unique in that, IME.

 

I would still argue that multidating doesn't create an environment of intimacy and trust, and that is why it is no mystery why dating sites encourage it.

 

I would say ALL first dates don't create an environment of intimacy. Intimacy comes later. As for trust, I would have no trust issues with someone seeing multiple people in the early (pre-exclusivity, pre-sex) states of dating. You do, so I suggest you share those trust issues with potential suitors. That would solve the problem, no?

 

They don't want people to actually find anyone. I take that back. They do, but just enough to create the random success that keeps people coming back and paying their fees... but not enough to make their business model obsolete. Because if everyone found someone there and stayed with them, they wouldn't have anymore customers.

 

The dating site I used was free. At any rate, I don't think dating sites are afraid they'll lack customers if they work. There will always be more and new single people, no matter how well dating sites work. FWIW, I don't remember OKC ever encouraging me to date in ANY particular way. I think this notion that people multidate because of OLD is also wrong, as I know many people who've never tried OLD who date this way. Nor is that where I got the notion.

 

So... go ahead. Post one more time and tell me I'm full of sh*t, that me and every other person who wants to focus on one person as being insecure, introverted, and unsuccessful in the dating world and that is why they hate multidating.

 

I never said any of those things, except the suggestion that introverts would be less enthused to date (and socialize with near-strangers) than extroverts. . . which is basically true, and not meant to be an insult. Nothing at all wrong with being introverted. Hubby is introverted!

 

I think I'll take this discussion up on another thread or take it to the polyamory discussion... because I'm seeing more similarities between multidaters and polyamory than I am multidating and monogamy, to be completely honest.

 

That's the most absurd one yet. Multidating (or "dating" as it's usually just called, outside of LS!) is just something you do in the search for a monogamous relationship. Polyamory is an entirely different lifestyle.

[RedRobin]

Yawn...

 

finished with my coffee.

 

Have a nice day everyone...

[zengirl]

I'm not whining at all.

 

I've acknowledged more than once that you both have your own style....but also pointing out that the approach that Zengirl used that ultimately ended up in marriage is MUCH closer to the approach a non-multidater uses than the one she keeps pushing.

 

AND, her H wasn't multidating when he met her and dated her. Does anyone see the irony in THAT?

 

Why do you get to decide what my approach is? I think my approach was multi-dating, and I think most multi-daters would agree. Just because I didn't lie and it ended well and it doesn't fit your paradigm, you've decided, "Well, that's because she's really wasn't even multi-dating." What I suggest instead is expanding your paradigm, but you are so unwilling to do that for some reason. You have a real chip on your shoulder about this topic.

 

As to my hubby, he wasn't multidating and didn't generally do so because he was an introvert. I asked him out and encouraged him several times to finally get that first date -- if I weren't an extrovert or only saw one person at a time, I never would've been persistent enough and kept him in mind enough (it's not like I wasn't meeting anyone else who was more interested in meeting up with me), I never would've married him! He knew from our first date that I was something worth keeping after, yes, and he won me over quite quickly. But if I were not a multidater, we probably would've never even had that 1st date! So, both our styles worked together well in that case.

 

Both hubby and I are fine with being different than each other in this and other ways. I think tolerance of difference is key to finding a good relationship, in general.

[phineas]

ok... well, I thought it would be a simple matter to PM someone (have never done it here)... but I can't seem to find the right buttons.

 

so, here are just a few of my multidater 'tells'. I mean, the ones who don't want to tell you they are dating other people that is.

 

As a general disclaimer... what I'm about to list is somewhat vague. It is the combination of these things that generally gives me the impression that someone is dating/sexing other people and not being upfront.

 

- they cancel at the last minute. Ok. duh, right? But for people who have kids and jobs... it can be tough to tell if that is a better-deal cancel or something legit. If they do it more than once... out they go.

 

- They just can't seem to firm up plans within a reasonable time frame. Or, they are the ones who are always making the plans. The idea is to put their interactions with you on a 'schedule' so that they can easily stuff in their other dates.

 

- They are inconsistent with their stories. This is the biggest one. Watch and listen. Learn not to react when you hear or observe them coming up with a different take on what they did one day vs what they told you a week or two ago. Take a deep breath and then ask them all about their new (or old) version of the story and see how uncomfortable they become.

 

- don't be surprised if they come up with pre-emptive calls/texts so that they can block out time for their other dates. The last thing they want you to do is CALL them or drop by when they are out with girl # who knows how many. So, they will call you before their other date. Or, they will say "I have plans", then suggest you talk to them afterwards. Its up to you to decide if you want to do that. I don't usually take them up on it. I would rather get a good night's sleep than wait up to talk to some guy who just had a date and is comparison shopping.

 

- they rarely or never are game for something spontaneous that you suggest. Why? Probably because they've got their other dates to juggle. Or they just aren't into you. Either way, don't waste your time.

 

- When you call at unexpected times, there is always some reason why they need to keep the convo short. Doesn't matter what the reason is. It is always something. They do make sure to call you back the next day or whatever. There is always some reason. Circle back to inconsistencies though. Ask them about whatever reason it was they had to keep it short and listen. Don't be accusatory. Be genuinely interested. There is an off-chance it was legitimate. You don't want to scare away a sincerely busy guy. But be aware, nonetheless.

 

If they do any of the above more than a few times, then you know you have the classic don't-ask-don't-tell multidater on your hands. You have two choices. You could ask if he is seeing other people or just stop seeing him. It will be up to you to decide when to trust your gut on it.

 

I think you posted the list of how men can identify an attention whore by mistake. LULZ!

 

On a side note, until a woman is sleeping with me she can bail on me at any moment so I will keep my options open & not make her a priority.

I've wasted too much time on women in the past that just went *poof* after 3 or 4 dates.

Edited March 24, 2012 by phineas

[FitChick]

If I were unemployed, I would apply for as many jobs as possible. I wouldn't apply for one and wait weeks to see if I was called in for an interview for fear of being called a job whore if I applied for other jobs. Think of all the other jobs I might have gotten but didn't because I was waiting for this one job. No guarantee I'd get that one job either.

[PhillyDude]

If I were unemployed, I would apply for as many jobs as possible. I wouldn't apply for one and wait weeks to see if I was called in for an interview for fear of being called a job whore if I applied for other jobs. Think of all the other jobs I might have gotten but didn't because I was waiting for this one job. No guarantee I'd get that one job either.

 

Applying to many as jobs as possible is a "Stupid job searching strategy" because it's a POINTLESS ACTION.

 

More applying doesn't mean more call backs because most job postings are fake. Also if you are applying to jobs you are not qualified for you are not going to get called anyway.

[Mantis Toboggan]

Applying to many as jobs as possible is a "Stupid job searching strategy" because it's a POINTLESS ACTION.

 

More applying doesn't mean more call backs because most job postings are fake. Also if you are applying to jobs you are not qualified for you are not going to get called anyway.

 

That's, uh, not what she's getting at.

 

I'm assuming that her point is - until she has a SURE THING, there's no point in committing to one option.

 

You're not going to go on a date with a person, and then cut yourself off from all potential dating options.

[PhillyDude]

That's, uh, not what she's getting at.

 

I'm assuming that her point is - until she has a SURE THING, there's no point in committing to one option.

 

You're not going to go on a date with a person, and then cut yourself off from all potential dating options.

 

 

Oh I got wrapped up in the JOB PART of it and didn't see it from the dating point of view. Ok I got it-lol

[RedRobin]

Most employers expect you to make a decision about working for them in a reasonable period of time (usually within 1-3 weeks of an 'offer') and expect you to be upfront with your decision making process.

 

Once employed, they will not tolerate you working multiple jobs unless you tell them upfront and are clear about your time commitment to other employers. THey have decisions to make too.

 

To do otherwise will burn a bridge with an employer or potential employer.

 

If you like working part time for numerous employers, you will find that you will recieve fewer benefits from each. Most employers only provide full benefits to full-time employees... although the freedom and lack of commitment to any one employer can be liberating... if that is your choice.

 

You will also probably be burnt out and not giving each employer your 100% best self.

[oaks]

Most employers expect you to make a decision about working for them in a reasonable period of time (usually within 1-3 weeks of an 'offer') and expect you to be upfront with your decision making process.

 

Once employed, they will not tolerate you working multiple jobs unless you tell them upfront and are clear about your time commitment to other employers. THey have decisions to make too.

 

To do otherwise will burn a bridge with an employer or potential employer.

 

That's true, but there's usually a mutually agreed point at which the employment begins. There's rarely the situation that one side assumes that employment has commenced when the other side still thinks they were considering several offers.

[RedRobin]

Oh I got wrapped up in the JOB PART of it and didn't see it from the dating point of view. Ok I got it-lol

 

I think you had it right the first time.

 

I agree with your earlier post that sending out lots of resumes to jobs you aren't qualified for and wouldn't take if you were given an offer is a poor job search strategy.

 

To extend the analogy....

 

Notice that most employers are not going to tolerate those who waste their time with requests for lots of interviews before making a decision... especially if it is on their dime.

 

They especially don't tolerate those who lie about their qualifications and break appointments... especially at the last minute.

[RedRobin]

That's true, but there's usually a mutually agreed point at which the employment begins. There's rarely the situation that one side assumes that employment has commenced when the other side still thinks they were considering several offers.

 

Which is exactly the point.

 

Most people here aren't complaining about multidating when done over a short period (a few weeks) and when there is an agreed upon decision period.

 

They are complaining about lying about it and all of the other irresponsible behaviors that go with juggling numerous 'jobs' and job offers. Canceling appointments, sucking up for free stuff for jobs you aren't really interested in, that drags on and on.

[Mantis Toboggan]

Which is exactly the point.

 

Most people here aren't complaining about multidating when done over a short period (a few weeks) and when there is an agreed upon decision period.

 

They are complaining about lying about it and all of the other irresponsible behaviors that go with juggling numerous 'jobs' and job offers. Canceling appointments, sucking up for free stuff for jobs you aren't really interested in, that drags on and on.

 

Lying and irresponsibility and cancellations and dragging on and on...It sounds like you've had your heart ripped out and stomped on. Repeatedly.

 

As someone said a few pages ago. It just sounds like you have a different view of dating than "multi-daters" as you call them (as apposed to single-daters, I guess).

 

I see dating as fun. I'm meeting attractive people, I'm going fun places, learning new things about new people, and one day a woman will like me as much as I like her, and we'll decide to stay together long term.

 

And I think you see dating as solely a vehicle for finding one specific person. An excruciating exercise with only one use. And if you don't find that person, then the dating experience was a failure.

 

But really, I'm learning that I'm not going to change my opinion about dating and you're not either. So this becomes one of those Democrats vs. Republicans situations where both sides dig in their heels and refuse to acknowledge any qualities in the other side.