how on earth are people ok with this?

[RedRobin]

All these people who are shocked an appalled at the concept of someone possibly dating multiple people are probably men and women who CAN'T date multiple people. Hence their fervor for holding onto any candidate as if it's their last chance at love. Because it very may well be years before they find a replacement.

 

You are right. I can't date multiple people.

 

I'm a really bad liar and I don't have plans to learn how to become a better one.

 

.... and FTR, I don't hold onto any candidate as if it's my last chance at love... and neither do these others who aren't fond of multidaters from what I can tell.

 

We just know that most multidaters aren't really looking for 'love' or aren't capable of it. Not really.

 

'Dating' is an end in itself for most multidaters. The endless churn. The sturm un drang of keeping multiple people dangling for as long as possible just to see if they can.

 

I could do that. But I have a conscience. And I also have more self-respect than that.

[starla33]

You are right. I can't date multiple people.

 

I'm a really bad liar and I don't have plans to learn how to become a better one.

 

.... and FTR, I don't hold onto any candidate as if it's my last chance at love... and neither do these others who aren't fond of multidaters from what I can tell.

 

We just know that most multidaters aren't really looking for 'love' or aren't capable of it. Not really.

 

'Dating' is an end in itself for most multidaters. The endless churn. The sturm un drang of keeping multiple people dangling for as long as possible just to see if they can.

 

I could do that. But I have a conscience. And I also have more self-respect than that.

 

Exactly all the guys I have multi-dated years ago are still single and multi-dating...what does that say about them? Are all those hot girls they went out with really not good enough?

[RedRobin]

Exactly all the guys I have multi-dated years ago are still single and multi-dating...what does that say about them? Are all those hot girls they went out with really not good enough?

 

Exactly... in the meantime, I'm looking at my parents who 'multidated' for perhaps two weeks in their entire lifetime. Picked each other and made a life together....and believe it or not, are HAPPY.

 

I'm looking at these people at the award ceremony I went to last night.

 

Two men were awarded with this company's highest awards... and both of them barely held off the urge to cry as they praised the women they married. Women they claim to have met either in HS or college and they've been happy ever since. I was genuinely touched and sad too. I envy them.

 

so right... everyone else can just keep multidating while the real fruits of commitment pass them by. Unfortunately, that is what 'relationships' have come to these day.

 

A commitment is what people do for the duration of a 'date'.

 

A relationship is god knows what. I think I named a few. ie the one I have with my coffee every morning is probably a more spiritual experience than many seem to have.

[Mantis Toboggan]

We just know that most multidaters aren't really looking for 'love' or aren't capable of it. Not really.

 

'Dating' is an end in itself for most multidaters. The endless churn. The sturm un drang of keeping multiple people dangling for as long as possible just to see if they can.

 

I could do that. But I have a conscience. And I also have more self-respect than that.

 

I don't understand what's so negative about finding a person, being attracted to them, and wanting to see how things would be romantically with them.

 

You make it sound like it's some evil plot. You have "more self respect" than what? Dating people? Do you go to every first date with a wedding ring?

 

Alright. So if I were a decent person, you're saying that when I meet a girl, I'm supposed to break contact with any other girls and devote myself fully to blossoming a relationship with this girl.

 

Even though I don't know this girl. She could stop calling me after a few weeks. I could do the same. But I'm supposed to put other aspects of my life on hold because I found this girl to be pretty, and seek to learn more about her?

 

I'm being serious. I literally cannot fathom what it is that you expect people to do. Give my relationship with a new girl a chance to grow? But it's not even a relationship yet. That's why we're dating. To screen for the potential of a relationship. And if we're just screening each other, then we're not committed. And if we're not committed, then I should be able to seek that with other people, because it's something I want.

 

I'm trying to understand your side, and I'm failing.

 

 

Exactly all the guys I have multi-dated years ago are still single and multi-dating...what does that say about them? Are all those hot girls they went out with really not good enough?

 

 

Good enough for what? Marriage?

 

Is that your biggest goal in life? Maybe it's not theirs. Just because a man enjoys your company doesn't mean that he needs to lock himself into being with you for life.

[zengirl]

@zengirl: I can see why some people enjoy multidating. Because they love to socialise a lot and enjoy dating in general. I don't particularly enjoy dating. I also like to socialize but being raised as an only child I have learnt not to be bothered by long nights alone at the house. When I socialise though, I do it in meetups, group meetings etc. That kind of thing. I don't socialise through dating. I just find it... strange? What friends would I acquire through such a process? If I do, they will all be males and if I meet my boyfriend/husband later on, I just wouldn't feel comfortable having so many male friends (who would probably want to get into my pants anyway, according to LS. lol).

 

To clarify, I never dated to find friends, but in finding friends, I found lots of people who wanted to date me, and some of them stayed friendly. If I didn't have a reason to say no (someone else, for sure no interest, etc), I didn't say no just because I'd had a good date with someone or (even weirder) a first date with someone else lined up. Maybe I just got asked out a lot.

 

I'm not sure about the relatively new part. According to my mom (who has been happily married for 48 years)... back in her day, people might have gone out on casual dates (no sex, kissing.. none of that) with a couple of people over the course of a few weeks.

 

In fact, if a guy tried to make the moves on a girl on the first date or 'dates', it would get all over and he'd get the rep as a snake. Just the opposite of the girl, of course.

 

That's how I dated, FTR. I cannot remember the last time a guy I actually liked tried to kiss me on a first date. Seriously. It was probably when I was in college, maybe? There are men that actually don't try to make the moves on a girl ASAP too---generally the ones I met who were most interested in serious relationships. FWIW.

Edited March 23, 2012 by zengirl

[RedRobin]

I don't understand what's so negative about finding a person, being attracted to them, and wanting to see how things would be romantically with them.

 

You make it sound like it's some evil plot. You have "more self respect" than what? Dating people? Do you go to every first date with a wedding ring?

 

Alright. So if I were a decent person, you're saying that when I meet a girl, I'm supposed to break contact with any other girls and devote myself fully to blossoming a relationship with this girl.

 

Even though I don't know this girl. She could stop calling me after a few weeks. I could do the same. But I'm supposed to put other aspects of my life on hold because I found this girl to be pretty, and seek to learn more about her?

 

I'm being serious. I literally cannot fathom what it is that you expect people to do. Give my relationship with a new girl a chance to grow? But it's not even a relationship yet. That's why we're dating. To screen for the potential of a relationship. And if we're just screening each other, then we're not committed. And if we're not committed, then I should be able to seek that with other people, because it's something I want.

 

I'm trying to understand your side, and I'm failing.

 

 

 

 

 

Good enough for what? Marriage?

 

Is that your biggest goal in life? Maybe it's not theirs. Just because a man enjoys your company doesn't mean that he needs to lock himself into being with you for life.

 

Whatever floats your boat.

 

You go down your stream, I'll go down mine.

 

... your post did remind me of a guy I broke up with shortly after he claimed to be 'exclusive' with me. I got that wierd, he's dating other people vibe and ended it. Well, I didn't end it exactly. I told him I didn't want to have sex with him anymore. So, I guess that was the same as ending it. I didn't have another man in my back pocket or on the sidelines. Didn't need a date with guy #2 or #3 to know this guy wasn't for me.

 

He was pretty upset and during the short post-discussion, he lamented the fact that the other woman he was seeing before me also broke up with him in a similar fashion. He couldn't understand why she needed to break up with him just because he wanted to date other women. Funny thing is, he didn't even have that discussion with me. I just knew it was going on and quit it immediately. I didn't bother to explain it to him...

 

See. That's not a 'relationship'. That is someone making me a FWB without my permission.

 

THAT is what I have too much self-respect for.

[neowulf]

See. That's not a 'relationship'. That is someone making me a FWB without my permission.

 

THAT is what I have too much self-respect for.

 

So if I am understanding you correctly, if I'm not sleeping with multiple women, but am just going out for coffee, etc I'm technically in the clear?

 

Because for the record, I don't "sleep" with multiple women at the same time. The minute I'm comfortable enough to go to bed with a women, that's enough for me to "Commit" to seeing where the relationship will go.

 

I don't agree people should be "sleeping around" on each other, without at least providing full disclosure.

[starla33]

So if I am understanding you correctly, if I'm not sleeping with multiple women, but am just going out for coffee, etc I'm technically in the clear?

 

Because for the record, I don't "sleep" with multiple women at the same time. The minute I'm comfortable enough to go to bed with a women, that's enough for me to "Commit" to seeing where the relationship will go.

 

I don't agree people should be "sleeping around" on each other, without at least providing full disclosure.

 

That is totally fine, I just don't know a single guy that doesn't multi-date and sleep around IRL.

[kaylan]

That is totally fine, I just don't know a single guy that doesn't multi-date and sleep around IRL.

Plenty dont sleep around. The guys you know who dont sleep around most likely multidate and you just dont know it.

 

Most guys arent looking to commit to a girl they just met, so plenty of guys will talk to a couple of chicks at a time if the situation arises.

[RedRobin]

So if I am understanding you correctly, if I'm not sleeping with multiple women, but am just going out for coffee, etc I'm technically in the clear?

 

Because for the record, I don't "sleep" with multiple women at the same time. The minute I'm comfortable enough to go to bed with a women, that's enough for me to "Commit" to seeing where the relationship will go.

 

I don't agree people should be "sleeping around" on each other, without at least providing full disclosure.

 

No, it is not ok to sleep with me while dating or trying to date other women. That is called a FWB and I won't do it.

 

I'm fine with men who go out with multiple women and are not having sex with any of them... up to a point. If it goes on too long, then the inevitable situations that arise when juggling multiple people come up... regardless of whether they are having sex or not.

 

Plus, I have to agree with Starla33. I've never met a man that wasn't having sex with at least one of them.... and are continuing to date so he can better deal her. It's like, they gotta keep that booty in his back pocket while he trolls for 'better'... whatever 'better' means to him. If the woman puts up with it, then I guess that is her problem.

 

Anyway, OLD is the preferred avenue for better dealing. Even after the close their profiles, they often still have a pipeline of women lined up. So that is no guarantee of anything either.

 

The whole thing is rather sad and pathetic. I don't know what these people are looking for. Doesn't seem to be 'love'.

[RedRobin]

Plenty dont sleep around. The guys you know who dont sleep around most likely multidate and you just dont know it.

 

Most guys arent looking to commit to a girl they just met, so plenty of guys will talk to a couple of chicks at a time if the situation arises.

 

Kaylan, you only think we don't know it. Some do, and just look the other way. Others are like me... patiently assessing the situation and seeing how the guy reacts.... while he ever so diligently kills whatever intimacy may have started or has a chance to start.

 

But see, that is what I'm finally getting... I'm really getting with the so-called multidater phenomenon. It isn't about building shared intimacy and trust.

[oldguy]

I will never do online dating again. Went on one date with a psycho and it ended badly. I understand you.

 

My wife met a psycho on line. Thank God she married me & got me off there.

[RedRobin]

My wife met a psycho on line. Thank God she married me & got me off there.

 

You are always good for some comic relief

 

Thanks! Much appreciated.

[zengirl]

I still want this idea addressed: It has been implied, by several posters who want dating to be immediately exclusive without an exclusive discussion, that dating multiple people is "lying."

 

How is it lying?

 

I'm not saying someone who multi-dates might not lie to continue a situation they have going where they're stringing a few guys/gals along -- sure, some would & do -- but people lie for all sorts of reasons! It doesn't make the act of dating multiple people a lie. It's MORE a lie if you're expecting exclusivity and not telling the other person, IMO, because you have something you're consciously withholding. Most people who date multiple people (in the early stages) that I know don't even think about it -- it's just normal to be nonexclusive at that point.

 

Otherwise, no one would ever have The Talk or consider exclusivity a step for down the road.

[RedRobin]

I still want this idea addressed: It has been implied, by several posters who want dating to be immediately exclusive without an exclusive discussion, that dating multiple people is "lying."

 

How is it lying?

 

I'm not saying someone who multi-dates might not lie to continue a situation they have going where they're stringing a few guys/gals along -- sure, some would & do -- but people lie for all sorts of reasons! It doesn't make the act of dating multiple people a lie. It's MORE a lie if you're expecting exclusivity and not telling the other person, IMO, because you have something you're consciously withholding. Most people who date multiple people (in the early stages) that I know don't even think about it -- it's just normal to be nonexclusive at that point.

 

Otherwise, no one would ever have The Talk or consider exclusivity a step for down the road.

 

I'm really, really tired of the words 'exclusive' and 'commitment' being thrown around.

 

Before OLD it was ASSUMED that if you went on more than a few dates with someone then you were, by default, 'exclusive'... and those who did otherwise were the outliers.

 

Now, mostly because of OLD and our throw away culture, I'm expected to adjust to this idea that (GASP) getting to know one person is a 'commitment'. No. Marriage is commitment.

 

Exclusive only means one at a time.

 

But to your question... There is no answer to this... it is like dress sizes. Once upon a time, a size 12 woman was 36-24-36 measurements. I know this, because I used to sew my own clothes. (I still do sew evening gowns).

 

Now a size 12 in stores is much, much larger than that. Must be. My body hasn't changed, yet I now wear a 0 or a 2.

 

Such is the word 'exclusive' and 'commitment'. People have re-fashioned it to mean anything they want to. So, it should come as no surprise that people are confused.

[Hear]

People are confused, because women have no empathy toward men. So they have created a bitter and jaded generation of men.

[zengirl]

Before OLD it was ASSUMED that if you went on more than a few dates with someone then you were, by default, 'exclusive'... and those who did otherwise were the outliers.

 

Define "more than a few." I'm not sure if I can speak to before OLD existed (it existed the whole time I was dating, though was taboo when I was younger), of course, but my mother dated much the same way I do. I saw her do it! She didn't sleep with guys or make out with guys that I know of (and knowing her, I seriously doubt it) right away---but in the year she was single, I met several men and she went on many dates a week. She had a few other dates in the same time period she first met my Stepfather. OLD wasn't around then, and all those dates were men she actually met, mostly through work or friends.

 

Now, mostly because of OLD and our throw away culture, I'm expected to adjust to this idea that (GASP) getting to know one person is a 'commitment'. No. Marriage is commitment. Exclusive only means one at a time.

 

I actually said it was exclusivity particularly. I think exclusivity without a real commitment to be BF and GF is actually a really bad thing. In fact, my quoted post does not mention the word commitment. YOU do.

 

Just because you want exclusivity immediately doesn't mean it's "right" or that anyone else is thinking people are "throwaways." They just realize that all dates start out with a general level of not-knowing the person, and they don't want to limit themselves without true commitment. Exclusivity means little to me without the trappings of commitment---continual check ins and attention, regular time spent together, a commitment to try and make a relationship work with the knowledge there's enough there to take that leap together, and emotional intimacy that is developed over time. Exclusivity by itself, devoid of those things, to me is just a way to "tie someone down" without offering much of yourself in return.

 

For me, it was just not important if a guy had a few dates with someone else while we were figuring it out. What was more important was whether or not a guy, when he was ready to ask for anything from me (exclusivity OR commitment, which to me go together only) or pledge anything to me was really All In. I think it takes time to get there, so I'm much happier if he's all sorted before we start that process. ETA: Sometimes a person will be All In by the end of the first date -- really, I've dated many guys who were -- and this is neither a good or bad thing (it can be either). It is just a particular style.

 

But to your question... There is no answer to this... it is like dress sizes. Once upon a time, a size 12 woman was 36-24-36 measurements. I know this, because I used to sew my own clothes. (I still do sew evening gowns).

 

Now a size 12 in stores is much, much larger than that. Must be. My body hasn't changed, yet I now wear a 0 or a 2.

 

Such is the word 'exclusive' and 'commitment'. People have re-fashioned it to mean anything they want to. So, it should come as no surprise that people are confused.

 

My question dealt with lying. I'm still looking for where the lie is.

Edited March 23, 2012 by zengirl

[RedRobin]

Define "more than a few." I'm not sure if I can speak to before OLD existed (it existed the whole time I was dating, though was taboo when I was younger), of course, but my mother dated much the same way I do. I saw her do it! She didn't sleep with guys or make out with guys that I know of (and knowing her, I seriously doubt it) right away---but in the year she was single, I met several men and she went on many dates a week. She had a few other dates in the same time period she first met my Stepfather. OLD wasn't around then, and all those dates were men she actually met, mostly through work or friends.

 

 

 

I actually said it was exclusivity particularly. I think exclusivity without a real commitment to be BF and GF is actually a really bad thing. In fact, my quoted post does not mention the word commitment. YOU do.

 

Just because you want exclusivity immediately doesn't mean it's "right" or that anyone else is thinking people are "throwaways." They just realize that all dates start out with a general level of not-knowing the person, and they don't want to limit themselves without true commitment. Exclusivity means little to me without the trappings of commitment---continual check ins and attention, regular time spent together, a commitment to try and make a relationship work with the knowledge there's enough there to take that leap together, and emotional intimacy that is developed over time. Exclusivity by itself, devoid of those things, to me is just a way to "tie someone down" without offering much of yourself in return.

 

For me, it was just not important if a guy had a few dates with someone else while we were figuring it out. What was more important was whether or not a guy, when he was ready to ask for anything from me (exclusivity OR commitment, which to me go together only) or pledge anything to me was really All In. I think it takes time to get there, so I'm much happier if he's all sorted before we start that process.

 

 

 

My question dealt with lying. I'm still looking for where the lie is.

 

All those nice things you mentioned about intimacy and all that... doesn't develop with people who can't focus and need to spread themselves around.

 

The lie is all the things people need to do to keep juggling as long as possible.

 

Others are arguing about their 'right' to juggle. Well, juggle away. Who cares? I don't.

[oaks]

It's MORE a lie if you're expecting exclusivity and not telling the other person, IMO, because you have something you're consciously withholding. Most people who date multiple people (in the early stages) that I know don't even think about it -- it's just normal to be nonexclusive at that point.

 

I like it! All those women who expected some sort of dating-exclusivity with me before the first date started, but who didn't tell me this in advance, were lying to me!

[zengirl]

All those nice things you mentioned about intimacy and all that... doesn't develop with people who can't focus and need to spread themselves around.

 

I don't understand why you think going on dates with a few people around the early stages implies people cannot focus (if it carries on for months and someone isn't both exclusive AND committed to you, I'd say that relationship will never develop any further, but early-exclusivity can hinder the process of weeding those people out IMO;more on that in a minute*). And I never dated multiple people as a "need" to spread myself around but rather because I had no one that I sought an exclusive and committed relationship with at that point because I didn't KNOW any of the guys I'd gone on a few dates with well enough yet or whatnot.

 

I'm sure there ARE people who can't focus and feel the need to spread themselves around. IMO, those people will often even offer exclusivity, but not commitment, very early on. THAT is what I always considered the real danger zone.

 

*On that more on that in a minute* Men (and women) who are exclusive -- in many cases -- not all -- because they don't want to work at finding someone they really mesh with -- but do not fully commit and build the relationship. Those are the guys (and gals) that drop you when something better comes along, the guys who string you along and never marry you, the guys who drive you up the wall because they're sometimes in and sometimes distant . . . the guys who simply see a few girls and go on a few dates before they get to know you and agree to build a relationship with you (with YOU, not just with the first pretty potentially interesting girl they meet) are not scary to me. They're much more willing to actually commit. The real commitment, I mean, not just the exclusivity.

 

Granted, there are other reasons men and women may be exclusive to someone from the very first date -- a myriad. I think that's fine if you assert that desire and express to the person that it is the way you date and it is what you expect from others. Personally, unless the guy was also ready for a commitment AND he was someone I felt a desire to commit to (not just with exclusivity), I would have turned such a man down.

 

At any rate, the norm is that exclusivity is not established until it is discussed. That is why I always suggest discussing it prior to sex or any other major intimacy and making sure you're on the same page. And it's why I suggest discussing your feelings honestly with anyone you might want to date.

 

The lie is all the things people need to do to keep juggling as long as possible.

 

Who said anything about juggling? I don't know about your social life, but a guy normally didn't want to see me every night early on when I was single and dating. It really never felt complex or hard to keep up--rather it felt organic to see different people on different nights. The times it felt inorganic were when I was really starting to dig a particular guy, and then I'd cancel dates or let the other guys know and stop seeing others of my own accord. But it took time (a varied amount) to get to the point where I really dug someone.

 

So, again, I'm asking how is simply the act of dating multiple people a lie. I already said some people might lie to DO it (people lie to do all kinds of things, as I said!) but that doesn't mean all do or that it, in and of itself, is lying.

[Andy_K]

The thing that's always struck me about multi-dating... if it's such a good idea and so efficient, why are so many multi daters single so much?

 

I mean seriously... if you're dating 2 or 3 people at any time, you're meeting enough people that you shouldn't be single for more than a couple of months, tops, unless you're either dating complete screwups, you're a complete screwup yourself, or else you've no idea what it is that you actually want.

 

Someone who's actively dating but not multi dating might only meet one new person every month or two, and sure you might easily be single for a year or more that way.

[zengirl]

The thing that's always struck me about multi-dating... if it's such a good idea and so efficient, why are so many multi daters single so much?

 

I mean seriously... if you're dating 2 or 3 people at any time, you're meeting enough people that you shouldn't be single for more than a couple of months, tops, unless you're either dating complete screwups, you're a complete screwup yourself, or else you've no idea what it is that you actually want.

 

Someone who's actively dating but not multi dating might only meet one new person every month or two, and sure you might easily be single for a year or more that way.

 

I assume some are single because they wanted to be (it IS fine to date just to date, though you should make it clear you're not looking for a LTR) and some are single because while they may meet many people, those people might not be compatible people. Most of the people I know who are perpetually single are not necessarily multi-daters (if they are, they aren't going on dates often or all the time -- they may have two first dates in a week and no dates for months and months after).

 

I was never single for ALL that long any time after I resumed dating, personally.

[oaks]

The thing that's always struck me about multi-dating... if it's such a good idea and so efficient, why are so many multi daters single so much?

 

By definition they're single. As soon as they pair-up and have a bf/gf they're not single any more, and they drop off the radar as a 'multi-dater'.

 

But that's probably not what you meant. Are you saying that multi-daters are single more (longer?) than other single people? Do you have anything to substantiate that?

[stillafool]

The thing that's always struck me about multi-dating... if it's such a good idea and so efficient, why are so many multi daters single so much?

 

 

Probably because they like being single and multi-dating.

[Mantis Toboggan]

The thing that's always struck me about multi-dating... if it's such a good idea and so efficient, why are so many multi daters single so much?

 

 

The goal isn't always to escape being single as if it's some type of disease. The relationships I've been in have mostly been great. But with that said, my top priority in life is to build a life that I enjoy on my own. I'm not seeking a relationship to complete me. It's to enhance an already-good situation.

 

I feel like when people put this priority on relationships, it's because they're lacking other things.

 

I am the "multi-dater", which apparently is so terrible and disgusting around here. Why do I date? To enjoy the company of people who I find attractive, and eventually find the TRULY right relationship. The thing about TRULY right relationships (sorry for the all caps, but I want to emphasize)...truly right relationships are not easy to find. I believe that love, in the real sense, is rare. It's an exhaustive, potentially worldwide search.

 

Look at all the people around us who settle down into relationships. 85% of them didn't go on some search. They married someone who grew up in the same town as them. Same job. Same high school. You get my drift. Love is built up to be this grand thing, and people "find it" just as easily as picking an apple off a tree. Lowest hanging fruit. It was there. It was convenient. And suddenly, it's "true love."

 

So yes, I'm single because I enjoy being single. And because I want a good relationship. Not just any relationship. But if I'm going to label this woman as my girlfriend...if she's going to meet my family, my circle of friends, then it's going to be REAL. Along the way, I'm not leading these girls on. But I'm also not going to commit to a person because they SEEMED cool for 2, 3, 4 dates. That's not a commitment, that's a sprint to the finish line. As if some "relationship" title is a reward. It's a mutual feeling that comes whenever it comes. It's not a document to be signed.