how on earth are people ok with this?

[kaylan]

Kaylan,

 

These discussions regarding multidating and OLD tend to get heated, obviously. I'm just as guilty as anyone as stoking that flame. I really like you (most of the time ) so thought I'd take a step back to see if just once more you could put yourself in my shoes and those of the other people who responded. I'll do my best to put myself in yours.

Ok lets get to it.

 

Somewhere within the first few dates (somewhere between 2 to as many as 5) most people expect that what they FEEL or being told is a legitimate connection will be respected in some way.

But early on why should anyone make assumptions about connection and exclusivity?

 

I personally have given up trying to gauge the honesty of a multidater by dating him. Maybe you are the one honest multidater out there. Who knows? I've personally never met one. In every case I've sat on my hands and suspended judgement long enough for the so-called 'exclusive' talk, I have discovered that the stories they told me in the beginning were just that... stories. This is without any prying or digging or inquisitions. Just that it comes out at some point that they lied about their whereabouts. Then, in THEIR moment of vulnerability when they are finally ready to pull the 'exclusive' gun (usually because the other ones have fallen off the table or they are impatient for sex or they actually really, really like me) I have to unfortunately dump them because they couldn't be honest and transparent from the beginning.

What do you mean the one honest multidater out there? There are plenty of honest multidaters...and most people who date dont classify themselves as a solo or multi dater. You are simply making gross generalizations about people that you cannot prove are true for most of them. You act us if solo daters never lie. Liars will lie, no matter what their dating style is. Simple.

 

People have bad experiences with solo daters all the time and Im sure you have too. I simply feel your dislike for multidaters causes you to have some confirmation bias. Like I said, Ive seen solo and multi daters lie and act weird about commitment.

 

Some would argue that those lies are harmless. That those lies are what people do and it's a-ok. I don't. Those lies and little stories give me an insight into their character. If they can't be honest and completely transparent when the stakes are as low as they can possibly be, they certainly won't be when things get tough. I've gotten much better at spotting multidaters now, and just avoid them altogether. Really is the best for everyone. I also discovered that IRL, multidating by the people I come across are rare or never. It really is a function of OLD... so, remove OLD, you tend to remove the worst of the multidating behavior. Really simple equation.

Thats your opinion. There are loads of people online who dont multidate though. So I dont see how you can prove solo daters dont exist in mass in the online arena.

 

And lies are never ok...but as I said, its not unique to multi daters.

 

Now, you want to paint people who don't like multidaters as insecure. Maybe some are. I have to wonder about the 'security' of those who can't possibly face a weekend date-less or have to have a perpetual back-up plan at all costs. I'd also ask you, as someone I consider to be quite intelligent, don't you think the dating sites benefit from all the multidating? Do you seriously believe that most of them really want people to find someone and stay with them? Think about it. Think about their business model. It depends on keeping people constantly churning and leaving the impression of endless possibilities. That is how they make their money!

A lot of it IS insecurity. Especially when you throw around generalizations that we are all going to lie to you and sleep with other people. Not everyone is like that. And some people sleep around without multidating...its called serial monogamy and can be done solo dating.

 

Plenty of multidaters dont sleep around...so I really wanna know where your facts come from.

The term 'ADD' and channel/date surfing as applied to online dating and multidating was quite precise.. and frankly, a trend I worry about in people's ability to maintain focus in many areas of their lives, not just 'relationships'.

How is this unique to multi daters? Ive known folks who solo date but move on to a new person every couple of weeks. They have ADD too, and surely slept around as well, but they werent multi daters.

Some multidate and do OLD so that they can have 'options' or the appearance of such. I don't date a guy just because he appears attractive to other women... at least not in a sexual way. If he is able to maintain legitimate friendships with women... that I find very attractive (which is a subject of my other thread).

I see nothing wrong with having options in the early going though.

 

But I agree keeping friendships is a good thing.

Regarding the discussion with the other poster. I do happen to beleive that the internet is more prone to attracting dangerous people simply because of it's anonymity. To assume otherwise is a bit naive on your part. We don't need to toss all of OLD into the trash can (or assume others are doing that) to acknowledge that.

But anyone you meet in OLD, you can meet out in the real world. Thats my point.

 

I've posted stories of my own about how one of my best male friends who dated a woman he met on Eharmony, and when things didn't work out like she planned, she made up false charges about him and dragged him into court... only to disappear on the trial day and shortly afterward, leave the state. He spent months worrying about what other craziness she would do, not to mention some time afterward repairing his reputation. So, I'm not surprised at all to see BlackJack's story.

This doesnt disprove my point. I have tons of stories about crazy exes from friends who met their ex offline. I can also give you success stories from friends who met their partner online. So that would seem to me that the real world the online dating world are comparable in that respect.

 

Online dating simply expands your dating pool. Its like a super huge bar club or coffee shop.

These are things you don't tend to encounter when you meet people through friends/family. Meetups? possibly. Even then, you have the group intelligence that tends to weed people out. So, there are many other dating options out their (albeit, not INSTANT) that produce better long term results.

Meeting people through friends doesnt invalidate online dating. Online dating is just like the bar, club, coffee shop, the park...the person could suck or be awesome...you dont know till ya try em out...you are simply arguing that meeting someone through friends is better than meeting strangers...ok maybe so...but that has nothing to do with the real world vs online dating argument. Youre making a complete stranger vs "my friend know this person" argument.

[LBW]

I've never dated online, but my boyfriend has. He used to go on casual dates with 4-5 women in the same week. He isn't a player, but he enjoyed simply meeting and talking with people.

 

Once he asked me to be his girlfriend, he closed his account and told me that he could only focus on one relationship at a time.

 

There is a distinction between going on dates and being in a relationship. If I were really into a guy I met, I would be annoyed that he were still looking, but that's just how online dating works.

[zengirl]

Expecting exclusivity from early dates prior to communicating you want it seems odd to me. Granted, in most of my relationships, it DID seem to happen organically and I think it does (if you have to pry exclusivity from someone, that's odd too), but the biggest problem everyone has is that they assume everyone else thinks like they do. Wrong!

 

If you see someone active on a dating site, they are not necessarily dating anyone else (they could be) and I would read absolutely nothing into it after a few dates, personally. If you want to know if someone is seeing others, ask them. If they get offended or freaked out by that, then even if they are NOT seeing others, then y'all obviously aren't on the same page if it bothers you so much that they'd even entertain the idea of seeing others.

 

Frankly, after 2 dates, I wouldn't be so freaked out about it. I also wouldn't be surprised if the guy was seeing only me. I just wouldn't worry yet. It's too early! A date is a commitment for the length of the date -- nothing more. There are no guarantees with dating. If you want guarantees, have the talk. If you don't want to be a grownup and ask for what you want, then don't be surprised when people do their own thing.

[Mantis Toboggan]

Expecting exclusivity from early dates prior to communicating you want it seems odd to me. Granted, in most of my relationships, it DID seem to happen organically and I think it does (if you have to pry exclusivity from someone, that's odd too), but the biggest problem everyone has is that they assume everyone else thinks like they do. Wrong!

 

That's how I feel about it. Relationships happen organically. You can't discuss your way into it. You can't negotiate your way into it. Of course at some point, it's okay to ask about where things are heading. But you can't dive into every date thinking, "This person BETTER NOT be dating anyone else."

 

That's why I also think that it's odd to assume that someone should act exclusive with you before knowing you. If I'm dating a girl, it might be 3 or 4 months before I realize that she's relationship-worthy. It seems desperate to make that assumption after a few dates. I don't NEED a girlfriend, so why try to shoehorn one into my life before vetting her appropriately?

[SincereOnlineGuy]

I think you need to have really thick skin for online dating.

 

I myself, do NOT date multiple people at the same time (i know I shouldn't do that blah blah everyone is dating mutliple people early on). Well I don't like to.

 

If i go on 2 amazing dates I kind of stop looking and want to see where it goes with the guy, but if the guy is from a dating site and I log on to the site I see him sitting on there what is one to think? I just assume he is not interested and lose interest in him at that point....so when he contacts me again I may go out with him, but I've already lost interest at that point.

 

Playing the field is cool and all, but you would at least think they would quick looking and give you a chance.

 

 

 

In your experience, who gets more job offers, those who send out one resume, and then wait for it to run its course, before only then sending out another... OR those who flood the whole area with their resume and qualifications???

[silvermercy]

In your experience, who gets more job offers, those who send out one resume, and then wait for it to run its course, before only then sending out another... OR those who flood the whole area with their resume and qualifications???

I had done the bolded part a lot in my past. No job offers or even interviews. Then I improved my resume and, hallelujah, I got invited after just a couple of applications.

[Jeremy87]

I think you need to have really thick skin for online dating.

 

I myself, do NOT date multiple people at the same time (i know I shouldn't do that blah blah everyone is dating mutliple people early on). Well I don't like to.

 

If i go on 2 amazing dates I kind of stop looking and want to see where it goes with the guy, but if the guy is from a dating site and I log on to the site I see him sitting on there what is one to think? I just assume he is not interested and lose interest in him at that point....so when he contacts me again I may go out with him, but I've already lost interest at that point.

 

Playing the field is cool and all, but you would at least think they would quick looking and give you a chance.

 

Just 2 dates? he's on there cause girls flake and change there minds. That's why.

[RedRobin]

I don't like multi-dating either for the reasons stated by other posters already. Such as lack of transparency or lack of commitment to know each other better etc. The whole thing just sounds lukewarm... But other alarms ringing is the fact that he actually finds the time to multi-date. We're not talking about a couple of dates a month and then nothing. We're talking about a LOT of dating, 2 or 3 times a week at least and for weeks or months on end. That means for him multi-dating is SERIOUS business. So yes, kaylan seems like one of the few exceptions, as indeed, many multi-daters sleep around and those who say who don't, they still might do so. Or even worse, have f**k buddies to satisfy their needs in the meantime. All these are red flags for me.

 

RedRobin, I'd love to know some of the signs you spot as if to someone is a serial multi-dater! Please share! And I totally agree about the deliberate mismatches on sites like Eharmony. How will you keep coming back and pay your money? It's a very common tactic. lol

 

I'll PM you on the tells. I don't want the hardcore multidaters to get any tips on how to cover their tracks... not from me at least.

[RedRobin]

In your experience, who gets more job offers, those who send out one resume, and then wait for it to run its course, before only then sending out another... OR those who flood the whole area with their resume and qualifications???

 

A better question might be... how many jobs can you work simultaneously and still do a good job on all of them?

 

Not to mention the fact that your employers know you are spreading your time around and with whom. It's called 'conflict of interest'

[RedRobin]

The scent of desperation on this message board is STRONG. You NEED that relationship, dont you? Just cant wait to sink your needy claws into someone.

 

Just the opposite, actually.

 

I don't waste my time with men who are indecisive or can't be honest when the stakes are low.

[zengirl]

I don't like multi-dating either for the reasons stated by other posters already. Such as lack of transparency or lack of commitment to know each other better etc. The whole thing just sounds lukewarm... But other alarms ringing is the fact that he actually finds the time to multi-date. We're not talking about a couple of dates a month and then nothing. We're talking about a LOT of dating, 2 or 3 times a week at least and for weeks or months on end.

 

I guess that doesn't seem like a lot of dating to me - 2 or 3 times a week. And perhaps that's the biggest difference between multi-daters and those who are bothered by it. Multi-daters are generally people who LIKE to date. It doesn't mean they don't like relationships, but they don't think "dating sucks" or "dating is work" or so on. They enjoy that part of the process, so it doesn't seem like much time. It's just socializing.

 

I was a multi-dater, and I loved dating! I didn't love BAD dates, of course, but most of my dates -- even with guys I wasn't going to sleep with, get into a relationship with, or marry -- were GOOD! It was just a fun way to get to know someone new. I always paid dutch if I didn't want to go out again, never slept with or fooled around with, etc, when it was someone I didn't think would be serious relationship material, and once I thought someone was serious material, I did stop seeing others (but that cannot always be ascertained on a first date -- I'd say for sure it CAN on the first 5, quite often sooner), but it wasn't exhausting to go on many dates a week. It was nice and felt normal.

 

Every time I've been single, I've gone out a lot (dates and just socializing). The last time I was single, before I met hubby, I went out 6 nights a week (granted, sometimes out was a friend's house) -- dates or social things -- almost every week. Hubby and I don't go out nearly so much, but I have him to socialize with and the pup and some neighbors, so I'm not lonely. But it seems lonely to me to stay at home every night, night after night.

 

At any rate, I never expected commitment right away and I don't see a lack of transparency in multidating necessarily. I never hid it. I never flaunted it to make someone jealous (that seems tacky) but it was no secret. Why should it be? If I felt the need to keep it secret, I wouldn't have done it.

[RedRobin]

I always paid dutch if I didn't want to go out again

 

I pay dutch everytime.

 

Seeing your comment, I understand now why some men are confused by the 'if she offers to pay, does that put me in the friendzone?'.

 

I also understand why alot of men aren't thrilled with dating... if they are always paying the full load. It gets expensive showing girls who like dating a good time.

 

...and yea, if you aren't paying and you are getting guys to show you around with little or no effort on your part... yea, sounds like FUN to me.

 

Not trying to rag on you... but for those women who put in equal effort into the dating process (not just showing up and expecting the guy to do it all)... yea, it is a bit of 'work'. Yep.

 

But it seems lonely to me to stay at home every night, night after night.

 

No offense. That's called having hobbies, interests, and friends. I don't use 'dating' to give me a life. This is another area where I differ from multidaters.

 

At any rate, I never expected commitment right away and I don't see a lack of transparency in multidating necessarily. I never hid it. I never flaunted it to make someone jealous (that seems tacky) but it was no secret. Why should it be? If I felt the need to keep it secret, I wouldn't have done it

.

 

I do see the word 'commitment' being used over and over again in some odd ways.

 

Anyway, I apologize if I sound snarky.

 

These discussions always end at an impasse with things getting rather heated.

 

Too bad they don't have a pull-down on some of these dating sites for people to state their dating style. That would be better for alot of people. Then everyone can stick to those who are more tolerant of their particular dating style.

Edited March 22, 2012 by RedRobin

[RedRobin]

If you don't want to be a grownup and ask for what you want, then don't be surprised when people do their own thing.

 

I'm not surprised when people do their own thing. Not at all.

 

I'm more surprised when people act with integrity and honesty in dating. Those are things I shouldn't have 'ask' for. It is either there or it isn't. Honesty and integrity that is.

[zengirl]

...and yea, if you aren't paying and you are getting guys to show you around with little or no effort on your part... yea, sounds like FUN to me.

 

I often offered to pay for things. I just wasn't going to fight about it with a guy I potentially liked! Most men I've dated insist on paying for the first few dates -- I only insist they don't IF I know I don't like them. If I think I do, I'll generally let them cover it if they offer, though I've often paid for a part of the date (i.e. he grabs dinner, but I get drinks later) even in those situations. I've only gone complete dutch when I insisted (in or out of relationships), which was usually when I didn't like the guy.

 

Not trying to rag on you... but for those women who put in equal effort into the dating process (not just showing up and expecting the guy to do it all)... yea, it is a bit of 'work'. Yep.

 

I tend to be a big part of the planning process on early dates. Maybe not as many 1st dates (many guys ask WITH the plan) but second locations on first dates and on more dates. I *love* planning dates and far prefered it when the guy seemed interested in me picking out things to do as well.

 

No offense. That's called having hobbies, interests, and friends. I don't use 'dating' to give me a life. This is another area where I differ from multidaters.

 

Nor did I. I always had hobbies, interests, and friends. And from those, many guys would ask me out! Why turn them down if I might be interested and wasn't seeing anyone seriously? I don't see a reason for it, just because some people think dating has to be dreary unless it leads to hot sex or true love. Many guys I've been on one or two dates with and we were mutually disinterested are acquaintances or even friends (rarer than the former, of course) now.

 

I do see the word 'commitment' being used over and over again in some odd ways.

 

Commitment is an agreement of something -- in this context, generally, exclusivity. I always commited to be exclusive to someone till the end of the date (if a cute bloke asked me out while the guy was in the restroom, even if I was never going to see the guy again, I'd say "no" as it's just morally right) but I don't see why they get longterm commitment and ALL my attention because we've had a few dates and they haven't even declared they WANT that much attention. Granted, this will never be an issue for me again, hopefully, as I'm married now, and I'd much prefer a night in jammies with hubby to any other date!

 

Too bad they don't have a pull-down on some of these dating sites for people to state their dating style. That would be better for alot of people. Then everyone can stick to those who are more tolerant of their particular dating style.

 

Perhaps. Most folks I know don't worry about this so much as people on this site!

[Black Jack]

Of course it wouldnt to you. I already made my point, waited for your rebuttal to my post from 2 replies ago, and you are just trying to swing the convo off track. Pathetic

 

Again no formal argument has been presented. Just personal attacks.

[zengirl]

I'm not surprised when people do their own thing. Not at all.

 

I'm more surprised when people act with integrity and honesty in dating. Those are things I shouldn't have 'ask' for. It is either there or it isn't. Honesty and integrity that is.

 

Why is it dishonest to see other people when you've not said you're exclusive? That's what normal dating always was. The idea of exclusively dating from the get-go is relatively new.

 

When I was dating, if a guy would've stated he expected complete exclusivity from me from Date #1, I would've simply said No unless I already knew him really well and had some notion I could fall for him and he could be my future husband (hard to know that early on!). I just would never assume that was expected, as I don't expect it either.

[silvermercy]

@zengirl: I can see why some people enjoy multidating. Because they love to socialise a lot and enjoy dating in general. I don't particularly enjoy dating. I also like to socialize but being raised as an only child I have learnt not to be bothered by long nights alone at the house. When I socialise though, I do it in meetups, group meetings etc. That kind of thing. I don't socialise through dating. I just find it... strange? What friends would I acquire through such a process? If I do, they will all be males and if I meet my boyfriend/husband later on, I just wouldn't feel comfortable having so many male friends (who would probably want to get into my pants anyway, according to LS. lol).

[RedRobin]

Perhaps. Most folks I know don't worry about this so much as people on this site!

 

Yes, it does appear that way...

 

But in a minor thread jack... Another married colleague of mine invited me to an award ceremony at my former employer. (get this... his wife is in France for the month and she suggested he ask ME! How's that for some friend cred!!)

 

Anyway, there is this adorable Italian guy I flirted with when I worked there before... he was at this award ceremony. Just like last time, he was flirty as ever (those crazy Italians). He has no ring, but according to my married friend, he has a girlfriend.

 

*sigh*. Well, I told my married friend that if Antonio becomes single, to pass my name on. Even though I mentioned that Antonio was 'flirty', he has never done anything I'd consider inappropriate. I can just tell he finds me attractive. Oh well.

[kaylan]

Again no formal argument has been presented. Just personal attacks.

An argument was presented several times. You clearly can offer up no rebuttal and simply deflect my arguments with pointless statements such as this.

 

Again, pathetic.

[Black Jack]

An argument was presented several times. You clearly can offer up no rebuttal and simply deflect my arguments with pointless statements such as this.

 

Again, pathetic.

 

No formal argument was presented. Instead of attacking me because of your bias, present an argument first.

[kaylan]

No formal argument was presented.

Go reread my post on the third page. You obviously have no leg to stand on so you keep deflecting.

 

 

Lolol...my own agenda? God forbid someone offer up an opposing viewpoint on a public forum...ok buddy;)

 

 

You really need to reread my first reply....in what way was it ever a personal attack? Stop being a baby.

 

 

Wheres the personal attack? Wheres me being rude? I even added the emoticon so I could accurately portray my demeanor. I was puzzled by your post and was seeking elaboration. I never made any personal attack on you.

 

Like I said...grow a thicker skin. I only became rude after your silly comeback replies in which you were rude to me.

Please quote where I attacked you before your rude statements to me...please do so. Because I dont see it.

 

And although your original statement doesnt have the express purpose of dissuading others, its negative language will do so regardless of your intent. If you cannot see that, then oh well.

 

And how did I make no formal argument? I explicitly said that psychos can be found anywhere after your statement appeared to make the conclusion that they are more easily found online. Then I added to my argument in my following replies to you.

Thats all you have to say? The guy who who childishly took the time to cross out my post in a quote. Especially after you were the one who said you had better things to do than read my posts...yet you keep replying.

 

 

[Black Jack]

Go reread my post on the third page. You obviously have no leg to stand on so you keep deflecting.

 

All I saw was personal attacks thrown at me when I was simply stating my opinion to the original poster. So there's no need to reread them.

[RedRobin]

Why is it dishonest to see other people when you've not said you're exclusive? That's what normal dating always was. The idea of exclusively dating from the get-go is relatively new.

 

When I was dating, if a guy would've stated he expected complete exclusivity from me from Date #1, I would've simply said No unless I already knew him really well and had some notion I could fall for him and he could be my future husband (hard to know that early on!). I just would never assume that was expected, as I don't expect it either.

 

I'm not sure about the relatively new part. According to my mom (who has been happily married for 48 years)... back in her day, people might have gone out on casual dates (no sex, kissing.. none of that) with a couple of people over the course of a few weeks.

 

In fact, if a guy tried to make the moves on a girl on the first date or 'dates', it would get all over and he'd get the rep as a snake. Just the opposite of the girl, of course.

 

Now, I'm not saying we need to go back to the 1950's in dating styles. I'm saying that these days, multidating usually goes along with having sex or physical intimacy with multiple people.

 

I never said I had a problem with anyone going on a few dates with others while I am seeing them. I have a problem with them trying to get in my pants when they are seeing others... or having sex with others while they are seeing me.

 

I don't expect to have to hire a private investigator to find out what their version of 'exclusive' is. Easiest way to do that is just not date multidaters to begin with... Or they make it very clear from their behavior that they don't have other women in tow.

[kaylan]

All I saw was personal attacks thrown at me when I was simply stating my opinion to the original poster. So there's no need to reread them.

Heres my first response to you again. Where EXACTLY is the personal attack?

 

Because you can only meet psychos online?

 

Lets be serious here. You can meet bad dates anywhere.

 

Wheres the personal attack on your opinion? Because I dont see it. After I made this statement, you fired back rudely and thus started the negative exchange. Like I said before I even added the "puzzled" emoticon so I could accurately portray my tone and demeanor.

 

For you to gather a personal attack for this post and then get rude with me, is totally beyond me. Grow up dude, because I didnt attack you in that post.

 

Either offer up quoted evidence of my attacking you before you got rude with me, or admit you have no leg to stand on here and are just talking to talk. As far as I can see, I did not attack you for your opinion. I fired back when you became rude...and that wasnt until AFTER my first post which you accused of being an attack on you.

Edited March 22, 2012 by kaylan

[Black Jack]

Heres my first response to you again. Where EXACTLY is the personal attack?

 

 

 

Wheres the personal attack on your opinion? Because I dont see it. After I made this statement, you fired back rudely and thus started the negative exchange. Like I said before I even added the "puzzled" emoticon so I could accurately portray my tone and demeanor.

 

For you to gather a personal attack for this post and then get rude with me, is totally beyond me. Grow up dude, because I didnt attack you in that post.

 

Either offer up quoted evidence of my attacking you before you got rude with me, or admit you have no leg to stand on here and are just talking to talk. As far as I can see, I did not attack you for your opinion. I fired back when you became rude...and that wasnt until AFTER my first post which you accused of being an attack on you.

 

And this is another personal attack.