Sensitivity towards male and female dating woes?

[dasein]

I just thought Hetzer sounds like Dasein must have when he was younger.

 

It's interesting you mention that. When I was younger, I bought all the feminist lies hook, line, sinker, as so many men and women did then. I was a true white knight mangina, lots of guys were then, because we had been raised to try to give women what they wanted as part of being a gentleman. Feminism was masterfully equated to civil rights (which is a gross insult to that movement), and we bought it like the dumb kids we were. We hadn't yet realized that no commensurate accountability to be a "lady" existed on the other side any more, just a venal, self-absorbed bottomless pit of power grabbing that continues today.

 

It was my own lazy fault for not looking more then into the underpinnings to the socialist/communist true nature of feminism, and its clearly stated goal of destroying American social order. I mean you don't have to dig,it's right there in plain print. Betty Friedan was a 30 year communist propagandist before writing "The Feminine Mystique" in which she posed as a repressed, bored Long Island housewife. The whole doctrine is hooey, as is any polarization politics that pits one "victim" group against another "oppressor" group, instigated because the working class values advancement in the world and turned out to be less pliable "true believers." The malcontents needed more vapid, stupid, greedy proles than the proles they started with, and women proved far far more pliable as a victim class. Voila... feminism.

 

The whole movement is an extension of Maoist/Leninist agitprop fabricated out of thin air, hell the founders wore Mao hats for goodness sakes, so spare me any conspiracy nut retort forthcoming. There's no conspiracy, the whackiest of the wacks will even tell you outright they are avowed communists, their position has become so entrenched and powerful they can say whatever with aplomb. Oh but "all feminists aren't like that." Yes they are, it's all -one- movement, -one- thing, that delights in lowering the hemline for the gullible when its true nature shows a little too much leg.

[zengirl]

I'm definitely more into the 18-35 range then the 36-65.

 

The stats on that site are interesting, but I don't really know how measurements and sizes translate to actual weight.

 

Yes, now that I am 30, I want somebody significantly younger and there are various reasons why.

 

But when I was actually 20-25 and wanted a 22 year old girl, did that mean I was being picky?

 

I think "picky" is honestly hard to define. However, objectively speaking, based on your weight, looks, breast size, and age requirements, you probably want one of the more attractive women (bracket wise). I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I don't think there's anything wrong with those women not wanting you either!

 

The story expressed in the OP is one of personal sorrow -- the woman was sad and rejected and she's getting older and feeling lousy. I did not see her say (nor is she here to say it) that she felt men were too shallow, despite having standards of her own. If she thinks that, then she thinks similarly to you, though is a more tragic figure in general (though no more earning of my sympathy) due to her age.

 

That's the crux of the issue. No point going 'round about the rest.

[PlumPrincess]

It's interesting you mention that. When I was younger, I bought all the feminist lies hook, line, sinker, as so many men and women did then. I was a true white knight mangina, lots of guys were then, because we had been raised to try to give women what they wanted as part of being a gentleman. Feminism was masterfully equated to civil rights (which is a gross insult to that movement), and we bought it like the dumb kids we were. We hadn't yet realized that no commensurate accountability to be a "lady" existed on the other side any more, just a venal, self-absorbed bottomless pit of power grabbing that continues today.

 

It was my own lazy fault for not looking more then into the underpinnings to the socialist/communist true nature of feminism, and its clearly stated goal of destroying American social order. I mean you don't have to dig,it's right there in plain print. Betty Friedan was a 30 year communist propagandist before writing "The Feminine Mystique" in which she posed as a repressed, bored Long Island housewife. The whole doctrine is hooey, as is any polarization politics that pits one "victim" group against another "oppressor" group, instigated because the working class values advancement in the world and turned out to be less pliable "true believers." The malcontents needed more vapid, stupid, greedy proles than the proles they started with, and women proved far far more pliable as a victim class. Voila... feminism.

 

The whole movement is an extension of Maoist/Leninist agitprop fabricated out of thin air, hell the founders wore Mao hats for goodness sakes, so spare me any conspiracy nut retort forthcoming. There's no conspiracy, the whackiest of the wacks will even tell you outright they are avowed communists, their position has become so entrenched and powerful they can say whatever with aplomb. Oh but "all feminists aren't like that." Yes they are, it's all -one- movement, -one- thing, that delights in lowering the hemline for the gullible when its true nature shows a little too much leg.

You're aware that your fear of communism is a very American thing? My guess is that there is no country where people get as hysterical about communism as the US. Although now the paranoia with communism has subsided a lot and now it's the paranoia with Muslims.

[somedude81]

I think "picky" is honestly hard to define. However, objectively speaking, based on your weight, looks, breast size, and age requirements, you probably want one of the more attractive women (bracket wise). I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I don't think there's anything wrong with those women not wanting you either!

Actually there is.

 

I realize that I'm older now, but when I was in my early 20's I wanted women who were just like me. Young, not fat and decent looking. Those are the girls I should have been dating. But they didn't want me for reasons I didn't understand. The same thing is happening to Hetzer, 49k and all the other guys who are struggling.

 

And it's because women consistently want men who are better than them. The woman in the story is just another example of that. The key being, is that she still holds that desire to have a man who is better than her.

[dasein]

You're aware that your fear of communism is a very American thing?

 

I don't fear communism, I fear its continuous, pernicious effects in the world economy and social institutions. People forget that back in the 60s, when feminism was invented, and going all the way back to the Great Depression and before, there was a real live, large and very vocal communist movement in this country. It is downplayed by leftist media and political interests today, compartmentalized into the grossly historically dishonest terms "McCarthyism," and "Red Scare." It was very real, lasted for decades, and did not revolve around the mere 1.5 year reign of Senator McCarthy or around the irrational ravings of a few conspiracy nuts. Free speech in this country allowed the conflict to rage on for decades. Long live free speech, even if it's evil speech, we take the bad with the good.

 

In actuality, the struggle has always been between the rule of law embodied in a constitutional government, and political expediency of stealing property from one group of people and giving it to another to gain political favor. The victory of expediency politics, linked hand in hand with victimization/polarization/identity politics, is mostly responsible for the world economic crisis we labor under today. Without a large, centralized, corruptible and entrenched bureaucracy, the evils commonly laid at the door of "corporations" and "the rich" can not exist.

 

No idea whether it's just an American thing or not, but what I do know is that ALL the countries who espouse communism wholesale, without significant capitalist reform, are largely irrelevant in the world today in terms of technological or cultural contributions, and will go down in history as irrelevant. What I also know is that you can draw strong parallels between how socialized a particular country is and how meager its contributions to the world at large have become.

 

My guess is that there is no country where people get as hysterical about communism as the US. Although now the paranoia with communism has subsided a lot and now it's the paranoia with Muslims.

 

Muslims aren't trying to deconstruct the entire American legal and social systems, so I don't see the comparison.

 

What does this have to do with OP though? Not a lot other than be aware that when you draw attention to any systemic problem that men have, in dating, mating, healthcare, reproductive rights, any "men's issue," you aren't just "whining," but drawing the whole "bread and butter" of an entrenched political order into the light of day, and they don't want this, which explains some of the more caustic insensitive replies to OP here.

[PlumPrincess]

No, sorry, you just misanalogized the positions, they aren't the same, OP was very clear in stating the woman in question only messages the best physical specimens on the site. I doubt SD's expectations are anywhere near that. Trying to say that 60% of women are OW so he has higher standards than he should is not convincing at all. Expecting to date someone who is not OW is not an unreasonable expectation, many people can't respond sexually with OW people, and regardless, it's an entirely reasonable expectation for anyone to have, even someone who hasn't been able to get a GF.

She did? Well, if you're overweight, but are not into overweight people, then you might have a problem. Instead of feeling depressed, because the fit people are not attracted to her, she should get fit herself. That would increase her chances.

[udolipixie]

I think there's more sensitivity of male dating woes and only sensitivity for woman's dating woes when she has aged out. Even then she gets the she was too picky, should have settled, or passed up nice guys label.

 

I think the sensitivity is just displayed differently the guy can't talk about his emotions unless expressing anger than it's okay as it seems anger and lust are the only safe emotions a man can display while still being masculine.

[udolipixie]

And it's because women consistently want men who are better than them. The woman in the story is just another example of that. The key being, is that she still holds that desire to have a man who is better than her.

 

Aren't you doing the same of this so-called "wanting better than you are" by your standards of significantly younger than you & not fat in a nation where overweight is the average?

 

Aren't you holding out as well if you don't want to date a woman who doesn't mean those standards?

 

To me the only average thing is the boob size as a C cup is the average boob size.

 

Just because it's easy to find in the area you are in doesn't mean your standards may not be considered picky, wanting better than you are, or holding out.

 

You seem to be defending your standards as average and normal while critiquing women's standards for not wanting her so-called equal something you don't seem to be doing either.

[somedude81]

Aren't you doing the same of this so-called "wanting better than you are" by your standards of significantly younger than you & not fat in a nation where overweight is the average?

 

Aren't you holding out as well if you don't want to date a woman who doesn't mean those standards?

 

To me the only average thing is the boob size as a C cup is the average boob size.

 

Just because it's easy to find in the area you are in doesn't mean your standards may not be considered picky, wanting better than you are, or holding out.

 

You seem to be defending your standards as average and normal while critiquing women's standards for not wanting her so-called equal something you don't seem to be doing either.

But I don't want a woman that is better than me. I have never said that I did.

 

As I said before, I don't have poor grooming, wear bad clothes, smell, fat, skinny etc.

 

Why is it unreasonable to want a woman who matches what I am?

 

A while ago I made a thread where I posted a picture of me with the girl I was chasing at the time and I asked if she was out of my league. Nobody said that she was, and the majority said that we looked like a great couple, and I didn't even ask if we looked good together.

 

Also consider this, the fact that in a nation where overweight people is average, by definition, makes me above average.

 

As for the age thing, I haven't been 30 my whole life, nor have I always been going after girls younger than me. Was it unreasonable then to want girl who were my age?

 

As for the woman I'm criticizing, I'll post this again.

This lady has had suitors in the past, but she's one of those overweight women that doesn't like overweight guys. So she goes on internet dating profiles, messages the best looking most athletic guys, then cries when they realize she's fat...?

Does that sound like she into guys that are equal to her?

[Els]

Huh, interesting. I recall a conversation, SD, when I talked to you about a guy in your position having the 'requirements' you do about women (and no, I really doubt you want an 'average' woman, judging from what I have read, and your opinions on what is 'average'. 'Average' as in what you see everyday in class, perhaps, but that is a very specific parameter in itself. The tradeoff for a man having more options when he is older, is that a woman has more when she is younger, and 22-ish is probably the most coveted age range for women). I said that it was analogous to an overweight woman having very specific requirements for a man and blaming everyone but herself for her lack of suitors.

 

Did you not say that you felt she was as entitled to her requirements as you were, and the solution for her would not be to 'settle' or rethink her requirements, but rather to just keep on trying for them?

[udolipixie]

But I don't want a woman that is better than me. I have never said that I did.

You want a woman who is significantly younger than you since in that sense you're not going after your equal and can be labeled what you so often critique woman for going after someone better.

 

 

As I said before, I don't have poor grooming, wear bad clothes, smell, fat, skinny etc.

But are you on the same level of attractiveness as the gals you seek otherwise?

 

Why is it unreasonable to want a woman who matches what I am?

Significantly younger than you isn't exactly matching what you are.

 

If it was truly matching your standards would have been what you stated above not having poor grooming, wearing bad clothes, smelly, fat, skinny, etc.

 

However your standards are rather fit, significantly younger, C cup.

 

what's unreasonable is defending your standards and insulting woman for theirs or considering it wrong if you disagree with their standards.

 

Also consider this, the fact that in a nation where overweight people is average, by definition, makes me above average.

yep above average in regards to weight.

 

So it's okay by your whole matching/equal thing to ask for above average in regards to weight.

 

As for the age thing, I haven't been 30 my whole life, nor have I always been going after girls younger than me. Was it unreasonable then to want girl who were my age?

When you were that age you were asking for that age in a partner so by your matching/equal thing you asking for equal.

 

You're not that age and still asking for that age so by your matching/equal thing you're not asking for equal. By your matching/equal thing you're asking for better.

 

Does that sound like she into guys that are equal to her?

No different than you not being into gals that are equal to you in regards tot he age thing.

 

Only difference between the two of you seems to be attitude I haven't seen a mention of her defending her standards and berating others for having standards she disagrees with stating they should be asking for their equals/matchesas you do.

[ThaWholigan]

You want a woman who is significantly younger than you since in that sense you're not going after your equal and can be labeled what you so often critique woman for going after someone better.

 

 

 

But are you on the same level of attractiveness as the gals you seek otherwise?

 

 

Significantly younger than you isn't exactly matching what you are.

 

If it was truly matching your standards would have been what you stated above not having poor grooming, wearing bad clothes, smelly, fat, skinny, etc.

 

However your standards are rather fit, significantly younger, C cup.

 

what's unreasonable is defending your standards and insulting woman for theirs or considering it wrong if you disagree with their standards.

 

 

yep above average in regards to weight.

 

So it's okay by your whole matching/equal thing to ask for above average in regards to weight.

 

 

When you were that age you were asking for that age in a partner so by your matching/equal thing you asking for equal.

 

You're not that age and still asking for that age so by your matching/equal thing you're not asking for equal. By your matching/equal thing you're asking for better.

 

 

No different than you not being into gals that are equal to you in regards tot he age thing.

 

Only difference between the two of you seems to be attitude I haven't seen a mention of her defending her standards and berating others for having standards she disagrees with stating they should be asking for their equals/matchesas you do.

In all fairness, given his lack of experience in terms of relationships, I doubt a woman his age would consider him an equal regardless of whether they were a match. Not saying never, but it's probably going to be slightly easier for him to date a younger girl.

[somedude81]

If it was truly matching your standards would have been what you stated above not having poor grooming, wearing bad clothes, smelly, fat, skinny, etc.

 

However your standards are rather fit, significantly younger, C cup.

 

what's unreasonable is defending your standards and insulting woman for theirs or considering it wrong if you disagree with their standards.

No, I never said I want a rather fit woman. I actually said, that a few extra pounds is acceptable. Which is kind of funny is that is not how I would describe myself.

 

I was insulting the woman, because as an overweight woman, she was crying to her friends that she couldn't get a good looking muscular guy. That's the same thing as me crying that I can't get a bikini model.

 

 

 

When you were that age you were asking for that age in a partner so by your matching/equal thing you asking for equal.

 

You're not that age and still asking for that age so by your matching/equal thing you're not asking for equal. By your matching/equal thing you're asking for better.

 

 

No different than you not being into gals that are equal to you in regards tot he age thing.

My point is that when I was that age, was I being unreasonable for wanting somebody the same age as me?

 

Even now I don't think I'm being unreasonable as women generally prefer men older than themselves.

 

Only difference between the two of you seems to be attitude I haven't seen a mention of her defending her standards and berating others for having standards she disagrees with stating they should be asking for their equals/matchesas you do.

She was crying and also getting her friend all worked up, acting like it was the end of the world. And from what it seems, the reason it didn't even work up was that she lied about her weight.

[verhrzn]

In all fairness, given his lack of experience in terms of relationships, I doubt a woman his age would consider him an equal regardless of whether they were a match. Not saying never, but it's probably going to be slightly easier for him to date a younger girl.

 

I fully disagree, I think a woman his age would be much more understanding, especially if she is also inexperienced (which an amazing amount of women are.) Younger women (especially in the age range SD is focusing on) still tend to have very rigid standards. An older woman would understand that ya know, life happens, and not be so judgmental.

 

For example, I had an FWB months back who was 30, and had never been in a real relationship. Yeah he had sexual experience, but they were of the FWB/one night stand variety. In terms of courting and relationship rules he was an awful noob. I've never had particularly thick standards, but a younger me probably would have thought he was a player/freak, and acted very passive-aggressively.

 

An older me understood that who you are in the present is only marginally effected by who you were in the past, and everyone deserves a chance. I was able to deal with him in a calmer, more balanced way, sort of "showing him the ropes," a role I could not have played as a younger woman.

[somedude81]

Huh, interesting. I recall a conversation, SD, when I talked to you about a guy in your position having the 'requirements' you do about women

Really? I don't remember talking about anybody else other than myself. Since I'm my favorite subject

 

(and no, I really doubt you want an 'average' woman, judging from what I have read, and your opinions on what is 'average'. 'Average' as in what you see everyday in class, perhaps, but that is a very specific parameter in itself.

Why?

 

It's not like I go to a university that only accepts models.

 

I have no idea why you and zengirl are making it seem like such a big deal that I am attracted to the girls I meet on campus.

 

 

The tradeoff for a man having more options when he is older, is that a woman has more when she is younger, and 22-ish is probably the most coveted age range for women).

The only possible explanation for a man having more options when he is older is that women that age finally got a clue and stopped going after players. Whoop de do.

 

I said that it was analogous to an overweight woman having very specific requirements for a man and blaming everyone but herself for her lack of suitors.

I really don't get how that is the same thing as my situation.

Did you not say that you felt she was as entitled to her requirements as you were, and the solution for her would not be to 'settle' or rethink her requirements, but rather to just keep on trying for them?

In this very thread, I said that her solutions are to lose weight and/or settle. And by settling, it's going after normal guys and not the really muscular pretty boys that she normally gets used by.

[Bob_Funk]

Exactly what I'm going through, I'm finishing up college now. Now that it's getting warmer out, and women are dressing really skimpy, I find it excruciatingly difficult to function normally. It's like a cruel joke- similar to how those Bum Fights guys tied BlingBling and left a crack rock just close enough so he could see it, but never reach it. Then they squeeze that feminist lemon over the gaping wound by making prostitution illegal and unaffordable for average guys, to atleast temporarily relieve the symptoms.

 

Yeah, summer was pretty terrible, but winter wasn't much better with girls wearing yoga pants that show every curve and crevice. You try to focus on school, but all you want to is spread those cheeks apart. I'm so glad I'm out of that environment.

 

Two thing I'd recommend: 1) Masturbate a lot, until you have almost no sex drive. 3-5 times a day if you have to. 2) Bang obese girls. Some of them or so desperate for slender male attention, they'll suck your balls like a lollipop and then thank you for it.

 

Good luck.

[ThaWholigan]

I fully disagree, I think a woman his age would be much more understanding, especially if she is also inexperienced (which an amazing amount of women are.) Younger women (especially in the age range SD is focusing on) still tend to have very rigid standards. An older woman would understand that ya know, life happens, and not be so judgmental.

 

For example, I had an FWB months back who was 30, and had never been in a real relationship. Yeah he had sexual experience, but they were of the FWB/one night stand variety. In terms of courting and relationship rules he was an awful noob. I've never had particularly thick standards, but a younger me probably would have thought he was a player/freak, and acted very passive-aggressively.

 

An older me understood that who you are in the present is only marginally effected by who you were in the past, and everyone deserves a chance. I was able to deal with him in a calmer, more balanced way, sort of "showing him the ropes," a role I could not have played as a younger woman.

Possibly, you may be right. However I'm sure that's not a given either, as I'm not sure what I am saying is much of a given truly. I just speculate that it may be harder for him, as I'm not completely convinced that women his age would be as understanding.

 

If she was inexperienced too then yes, I fully agree with you.

[Jane2011]

So when do people actually start worrying about guys?

 

About 7 years ago, I was single never had a girlfriend, 23, decent looking and 5'6. And now look where I am.

 

And the funniest thing, not one person in my family is worried about me.

 

As a matter of fact, I do start worrying about guys when they are around your age (30, right?) and have had no luck at all. But the OP is 23. If seven more years pass and he's still struggling, I would have more concern for him. At this point, he's got youth and beauty on his side.

 

And I didn't know you've never had a girlfriend or sex. I suppose I'm unclear about your experience because I haven't read all the threads. I thought you said you'd had sex before and a couple of involvements.

 

I do feel bad for guys who have had no involvements and are in their 20s and early 30s, though, just not AS bad as I would for a 40 year old woman who's fat and, for whatever reason, seems to have no chance at love.

 

But if she's had some involvements in her past (at least) vs. a 30 year old guy who's never touched a woman in any romantic way, I'd feel more bad for him, I think. Or it'd be pretty even at least.

 

I do feel sympathy for people because I know I am spoiled and feel like I'm deprived if I go six months without sex or a boyfriend; I can't imagine not having had a woman's touch (or man's touch if you're a woman) for years and years. Or "ever"

 

It's strange to me that it's not possible for people, though. I see even unattractive, overweight people paired up all the time.

 

And another thing is that if I were a 30 year old guy and had never had sex, I'd probably long since have gone to a prostitute. Maybe that's wrong or taboo to say, but I'm pretty darn sure I'd do it.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Jane2011

[udolipixie]

My point is that when I was that age, was I being unreasonable for wanting somebody the same age as me?

My point is that you're doing what you claim women tend to do stick to the same standards and ask for better rather than their equal/match.

 

You weren't unreasonable because you were the age you were asking for. Nor were you asking for better as it was your equal/match.

 

Recall:

When you were that age you were asking for that age in a partner so by your matching/equal thing you asking for equal.

 

You're not that age and still asking for that age so by your matching/equal thing you're not asking for equal. By your matching/equal thing you're asking for better.

 

Even now I don't think I'm being unreasonable as women generally prefer men older than themselves.

It's not about being unreasonable in what you're asking.

 

It was this whole I'm asking for my match/equal and your tendency to hypocritically critique womens standards for not asking for their match/equal.

 

My point is that you're not asking for your equal/match but you tend to criticize women for not asking for their equal/match.

 

She was crying and also getting her friend all worked up, acting like it was the end of the world. And from what it seems, the reason it didn't even work up was that she lied about her weight.

It was the end of the world to her perhaps. Some people take not getting what they want that way.

Edited March 21, 2012 by udolipixie

[zengirl]

Young, not fat and decent looking. Those are the girls I should have been dating. But they didn't want me for reasons I didn't understand. The same thing is happening to Hetzer, 49k and all the other guys who are struggling.

 

I don't know Hetzer well enough to have a read on him. I have a lot of sympathy for 49k, who I think potentially suffers from some pretty severe anxiety issues based on some of the descriptions of his thoughts. That has nothing to do with women rejecting him because of standards, on his side or theirs. Anxiety is a life killer. I have suffered from it myself, and I have both sympathy and empathy for anyone struggling with it. I do not think, based on his posts and yours, that the reason he is single and the reason you are single are remotely the same. (Sorry 49k, if it was rude to go into this analysis here.)

 

And it's because women consistently want men who are better than them. The woman in the story is just another example of that. The key being, is that she still holds that desire to have a man who is better than her.

 

How are we going to define "better"? Especially since using purely looks doesn't work. People aren't put into dating "castes" based on looks or anything else that they must stay in.

 

I do think it's hypocritical for someone who has ever rejected anyone for their looks (which is almost everyone), particularly someone who has stated very set and specific standards to a point where their standards would offend many members of the opposite sex (standards like yours, the way you stated them) to criticize someone else for having physical standards. That's what hypocrisy is. Hypocrisy in dating cannot be wanting something from a partner that you don't have because all opposite-gender relationships are based on that. (i.e. You want a woman with breasts, but I assume you don't have them. So, we're always making approximations.) Assuming that one approximation is fair and another is not is not really appropriate, IMO.

 

Now, this is not to say I don't think people can reject people based on looks -- I think they absolutely can and that people should only date others they're attracted to. I just think they shouldn't get upset if others reject them for their looks as well. Or for any other reason. We all have the right of choice.

 

It seems to me that several men who don't do well with women (on this board) and even some who do get very angry over the fact that women have choices, make choices, and choose their priorities in who to date. This is not appropriate, as the same men aren't exactly offering to date ANYONE and EVERYONE --- any standard is a standard. Some are more likely to be met, and attitude is a lot of it. As I said, I cannot appropriately assess the woman in question's attitude about being rejected.

 

She's sad -- that seems appropriate -- but I see no indication she's angry or indignant or thinks men don't deserve their standards-- that's what would be offensive. Lying about her weight is wrong and silly, so if she did that, as the OP said, she shouldn't. I don't think her desire to meet someone she's attracted to -- whatever that means -- who accepts her is wrong. Nor is SD's. Just his reaction to that not happening.

 

I think there's more sensitivity of male dating woes and only sensitivity for woman's dating woes when she has aged out. Even then she gets the she was too picky, should have settled, or passed up nice guys label.

 

I think the sensitivity is just displayed differently the guy can't talk about his emotions unless expressing anger than it's okay as it seems anger and lust are the only safe emotions a man can display while still being masculine.

 

I also agree with this. Some men here (not the majority of men in general, I think) think that women should just need relationships so much that they settle for anyone that they (those men, not the woman herself) deem appropriate. And they get angry about it, which is perhaps what turns me off.

 

But you're right that some men (not most these days, I hope) do feel that anger is the only appropriate and masculine emotion.

 

Why is it unreasonable to want a woman who matches what I am?

 

A woman who matches what you are would also have to be an older woman who has had no success. Looks aren't everything. The truth is, none of us wind up with people who "match what we are." That's pretty impossible.

 

Your league, and this woman's league, and everyone's league is very simple: It's everyone you want to go out with who would go out with you.

 

I said that it was analogous to an overweight woman having very specific requirements for a man and blaming everyone but herself for her lack of suitors.

 

Did you not say that you felt she was as entitled to her requirements as you were, and the solution for her would not be to 'settle' or rethink her requirements, but rather to just keep on trying for them?

 

Yes, I remember that conversation as well.

 

In all fairness, given his lack of experience in terms of relationships, I doubt a woman his age would consider him an equal regardless of whether they were a match. Not saying never, but it's probably going to be slightly easier for him to date a younger girl.

 

Not necessarily. I mean, most of the girls he'd be interested in (fit his looks profile) are attractive. Attractive girls in HS and college have probably either dated or they have less interest in dating -- and girls with less interest in dating don't generally start dating with older men -- and they are in a desirable position.

 

SD is competing with the younger guys who aren't perpetually unsuccessful and the women see more as peers AND the older, established, out-of-college guys his age. I don't think SD is in the best position with those women. I think he would be in a better position with women like himself, though like men like himself, they'd be rare, I guess.

 

Younger and inexperienced is not the same as older an inexperienced. When younger girls go older, they often do it because they want someone who seems more experienced, not just older.

 

Of course, that's the trend as a whole. He could certainly meet someone, in any age group, who just liked him. But I don't think his chances are necessarily the best with that age group specifically, no.

 

I was insulting the woman, because as an overweight woman, she was crying to her friends that she couldn't get a good looking muscular guy. That's the same thing as me crying that I can't get a bikini model.

 

She was crying that a specific man from a dating site rejected her after she'd cultivated some sort of conversation with him, I thought. She was disappointed, and she cried to her friend. That's not unusual. I thought she cried over the specific man rejecting her. That's more akin to you being sad and venting when D rejected you than you crying that you can't get a bikini model.

 

The only possible explanation for a man having more options when he is older is that women that age finally got a clue and stopped going after players. Whoop de do.

 

No, typically it's that men become more attractive when they establish careers and some success. They have more than their looks and personality then to bring to the table. Sadly, these same accomplishments don't serve women as well as they serve men. It's not the mere act of aging that does it, generally.

[Els]

Zengirl pretty much said everything that I had wanted to, except in a far more eloquent and less offensive manner.

[serial muse]

In all fairness, given his lack of experience in terms of relationships, I doubt a woman his age would consider him an equal regardless of whether they were a match. Not saying never, but it's probably going to be slightly easier for him to date a younger girl.

 

This is a reasonable point of view...but it's not borne out by the evidence, as it turns out. Somedude has not had an easier time trying to date a younger girl. So maybe he should honestly give women his own age a real try. That would include asking one out.

[dasein]

Laughable double standard thread is laughable.

 

Woman's preferences including indisputable bad behavior? Lean over backwards to feel pity for her and justify it just because.

 

Man's preferences? Pull out a microscope and micrometer of legalistic, statistical hyperanalysis to demonstrate that his eminently reasonable preferences are somehow unreasonable and too high.

 

Neglect, of course, to mention that age differentials are as much, if not more, a female preference that men are conditioned to accept our whole lives, begins in HS, continues through college, and out into the working world. But of course, when age differentials need to be painted as "too picky" it's all about male preferences.

[Els]

This is a reasonable point of view...but it's not borne out by the evidence, as it turns out. Somedude has not had an easier time trying to date a younger girl. So maybe he should honestly give women his own age a real try. That would include asking one out.

 

Well, I think it would be fairly difficult for him to do so while in college, since the majority of his peers would be in their early-mid twenties. But once he graduates, I think he'll have a far easier time dating if he is willing to open his mind to the women his age around him in his future workplace. Not only are the girls in college generally less ready for relationships, but they are also more sought-after by men (both men his age and men their age), and so some of them (especially the ones he notices, who are slim, etc) tend to develop defense mechanisms due to numerous approaches, as well as Prince Charming expectations. Given all those factors, I figure the college environment is probably not the best one for SD to date in, especially as he lacks the superficial qualities that the younger and more superficial girls tend to prize (height, career, 'coolness', being buff, etc).

[verhrzn]

I also agree with this. Some men here (not the majority of men in general, I think) think that women should just need relationships so much that they settle for anyone that they (those men, not the woman herself) deem appropriate. And they get angry about it, which is perhaps what turns me off.

 

But you're right that some men (not most these days, I hope) do feel that anger is the only appropriate and masculine emotion.

 

Interesting observation, and one I agree with. As far as sympathy goes, in my observation, both women and men seem to give sympathy to down-on-their-luck men, but it's rare for men to express sympathy for down-on-their-luck women. It's always she's too picky/she ignores the nice guys, even if neither of those are true. It seems like, to a lot of men, a single woman is a lot more... offensive?... that a single man is. Does anyone else get this impression?

 

Not necessarily. I mean, most of the girls he'd be interested in (fit his looks profile) are attractive. Attractive girls in HS and college have probably either dated or they have less interest in dating -- and girls with less interest in dating don't generally start dating with older men -- and they are in a desirable position.

 

SD is competing with the younger guys who aren't perpetually unsuccessful and the women see more as peers AND the older, established, out-of-college guys his age. I don't think SD is in the best position with those women. I think he would be in a better position with women like himself, though like men like himself, they'd be rare, I guess.

 

Younger and inexperienced is not the same as older an inexperienced. When younger girls go older, they often do it because they want someone who seems more experienced, not just older.

 

Exactly what I was going to say. I've always been flummoxed by SD's age requirements. It also makes him a less desirable candidate to women who COULD potentially be interested in him... On dating sites, when I see a guy that is my age, but has an age range that is significantly younger and only 1-2 years older ("I'm 26 and I'll only date women 19-27") I immediately write him off, because I think he's placing a bizarre standard ("younger women are better!") over a meaningful connection.