Sensitivity towards male and female dating woes?

[Anela]

I also notice the women on here who have been the most empathetic and supportive with my own issues for the most part tend to be in happy and lasting relationships and the ones that are single at least tried for real to make one work.

 

The bolded part would be me.

[RedRobin]

Exactly what I'm going through, I'm finishing up college now. Now that it's getting warmer out, and women are dressing really skimpy, I find it excruciatingly difficult to function normally. It's like a cruel joke- similar to how those Bum Fights guys tied BlingBling and left a crack rock just close enough so he could see it, but never reach it. Then they squeeze that feminist lemon over the gaping wound by making prostitution illegal and unaffordable for average guys, to atleast temporarily relieve the symptoms.

 

It's not a feminist lemon. It is a religious right lemon.

 

Go to Amsterdam, Holland sometime. Full of independent women.

 

They care about the health of sex workers (male and female) and the people who patronize them. So they make it legal. Oh, and tax the heck out of it too.

[Imported]

....

Then compare that to this woman. She's now into middle age, craving something, working at it, and yet it's looking more and more like it's never gonna happen for you. You have at least 20 years ahead of you before that happens, AND she seems to want it much more than you.

 

Perhaps you could display some compassion for a woman who will never get to fulfill her dream of a husband and a family? Lead by example?

 

Fat women that want a man as attractive as themselves or better when they have an overinflated view of thier own attractiveness. This is why "curvy" has lost its meaning. Why she'll get used and left behind if anyone even wants to bother using her.

 

I don't feel any compassion for her. From what the OP states, she mis-represents herself. I feel sorry for the guys she is trying to fool.

[Els]

Exactly what I'm going through, I'm finishing up college now. Now that it's getting warmer out, and women are dressing really skimpy, I find it excruciatingly difficult to function normally. It's like a cruel joke- similar to how those Bum Fights guys tied BlingBling and left a crack rock just close enough so he could see it, but never reach it. Then they squeeze that feminist lemon over the gaping wound by making prostitution illegal and unaffordable for average guys, to atleast temporarily relieve the symptoms.

 

I was going to respond thoughtfully to your OP, then I looked at this post and your post count, and decided not to bother. This is, what, your 5th incarnation here?

[serial muse]

Oh I see, so the disproportionate attention to womens health issues like breast and cervical cancer (to the point where they want to give boys potent vaccines at age 11 so that they don't give women HPV that could possibly cause cervical cancer in women) is really just another conspiracy by men to objectify women.

 

Are you a troll or a college humanities student? They often have a similar tone.

 

Women have historically lived longer than men, if science only focused on male issues for all of history this wouldn't be true.

 

I was actually feeling kind of bad for you and was going to comment kindly on your plight...and then I read the bit in bold. Well, you lost me.

 

I really have to laugh at your comment about a college humanities student sounding like a troll, immediately followed by this staggeringly ignorant statement. Perhaps you should give reading history a try.

[dasein]

Here's the dirty little secret about all of those issues: women have articles and scholarships and awareness campaigns because those issues are not the norm.

 

OP, don't bother with expecting much valid feedback or sympathy from feminists here. What you will get are outright fabrications like the above, your posts will be taken out of context, as verhzn did in her first reply, and they will attempt to shift the discussion right back to women's issues, as they have been so blindly indoctrinated into polarization politics that they can't view the world in any other way. Persist in drawing attention to male issues enough and the standard insults will start to issue forth, "you just hate women," "with an attitude like that, you will never get a woman," "women can sense your bad attitude," and other tripe. We are almost to that point, these threads are quite predictable.

 

OP says in the first post that he feels bad for the woman who got dumped. Yet posters ignore this. He also says she is overweight, in her 40s and a liar who is unrealistic about the type of man she can attract from the OLD site, yet posters ignore this. Of course no responses focus on these parts of the OP (ala well she is getting exactly what fat, lazy liars with unrealistic expectations deserve... no that would be the response were she male), and the same broken record begins, "be more sympathetic towards women, do more for women."

 

It's the same broken record we've had forced on us for 50 years now. It's getting real old.

 

It's a fact that for decades, public funds spent on supposed "women's issues" dwarf the funds spent on male issues. Medical spending, just one example but a good one, bears this out in spades. Women consume up to 80% of public medical funds in the U.S. Now some of this is to be expected, due to childbirth, but the amount of public funds spent on breast cancer, for example, as OP mentions, is outrageously skewed v funds spent on prostate cancer, a disease every bit as deadly to men as breast cancer is to women.

 

It beggars the imagination that anyone would claim that women received inferior medical care to men in the past. The main focus of human civilization for thousands of years before and including the technological advances of the 20th century, has been protecting, supporting and liberating the reproductive capacity in every aspect of human life, domestic life, feudal life, working life, and that includes medicine. Real history that clearly demonstrates this fact has been so deemphasized, obfusctated and twisted for political and academic gain, that what people are taught today is "history lite," a skewed leftist version that amounts to lying by omission. It issues forth in rivers of misinformation from the social sciences departments of universities and political pulpits.

 

Historically, there has been very little attention paid to women's health. Doctors just assumed that the way they treated men worked for women. A lot of medication and medical issues are seen as male-normative: meaning, men are the normal, women are the abnormal. You don't hear about funding going towards men's issues because it's ALREADY been doing that. Science has spent most of the last century already pouring research and money into male health issues, because of that male-normative assumptions.

 

OP, here's how the progression works here. An utter feminist fabrication, with no historical or statistical underpinnings whatsoever, such as the above is presented as fact. There are literally thousands of these thoroughly concocted "factoids" floating around out there related to topics including rape, domestic violence, wage disparity, glass ceiling, etc. We are expected to accept them wholesale because "a woman said it." "One in four women has been the victim of sexual abuse," "Only 2% of all rape claims are false," "women earn .75 for every $1 a man earns." NONE of these statements has valid, honest underlying statistics, they simply crosscite each other and the "source" of the statement turns out to be an unsourced remark at a rally or "women's conference" somewhere.

 

Press them on it, offer disagreement, and the inevitable response is "you have to prove that." Of course they are under no such similar obligation. Nice work if you can get it, spouting unfounded feminist homilies. No wonder it's hard to get a job teaching in the social sciences. What amazes me is that otherwise rational, intelligent women continue to buy into it.

 

It's all about the breasts... by emphasizing breast cancer, there is a subtle culture message that a woman's health issues aren't important unless they threaten what makes her a woman (breasts, ovaries.)

 

Ah, see OP, the patriarchy likes big tits, so we spend money to protect them. Another funny thing about feminism is its indoctrinees dance back and forth between loving generalizations that favor women, the whole domain of "women's issues" for example, while reserving the right to cry foul at any unfavorable generalizations "women aren't as good at math." So nice to be unaccountable for thorough inconsistency in twisted reasoning.

 

BTW this is how the analysis that always returns to "doing more for women" will never end, there will never be enough "doing more for women" because feminists don't hesitate to paint something done for women as negative one minute and critically needed the next. Who would have thought that breast cancer research was just another oppressive function of the patriarchy? Imagine that.

 

The fact is, you're expressing the desire for sympathy for your somewhat minor plight (as I explained in my last post) while ignoring/denying the situation the woman is in. Do unto others. Extend some empathy and compassion her way; maybe try to examine the idea of WHY people think she has it worse.

 

OP, despite the fact that you very clearly demonstrated empathy for the woman who got dumped, it just never seems to be enough. Hopefully you are learning that any focus on men's issues or your own personal issues or gripes about disparate treatment and sympathy of men and women is not a welcome topic of discussion on the dating board.

 

I mean, you can't get a girl? Man up! and stop being such a misogynist!

[somedude81]

This lady has had suitors in the past, but she's one of those overweight women that doesn't like overweight guys. So she goes on internet dating profiles, messages the best looking most athletic guys, then cries when they realize she's fat...?

Why should anybody feel bad for her?

 

The reasons why she's single are completely her fault.

 

I thought most women wizened up when they got to that age and realized their true market value.

 

She could either, gasp lower her standards or double gasp, lose weight.

I have to say I'd feel more sorry for the woman than you, at this point, mostly just because of age and the fatness you speak of. According to you, you're 23 and pretty good-looking and maybe 5'6" or so. You'll have a woman in due time. She's fat and getting old; why would I feel more sorry for you? (I mean, that's a compliment to you).

So when do people actually start worrying about guys?

 

About 7 years ago, I was single never had a girlfriend, 23, decent looking and 5'6. And now look where I am.

 

And the funniest thing, not one person in my family is worried about me.

[zengirl]

However this is my gripe. I understand men are stronger than women and supposed to have a thicker skin but sometimes even the strongest of men need a sympathetic ear to listen.

 

I'm kind of offended by many of your ideas about women, but this one stood out to me. You think men are, as a statement of fact that you can understand, emotionally stronger than women? If you go around saying such things, I can understand how women could find you unsympathetic.

 

Personally, I feel sorry for men and women who are lied to (the woman shouldn't have lied) or stood up or strung along or mistreated. I'm not going to feel much of anything for someone who wrote 1 message on a dating site and didn't get a reply (that is the norm, though I usually replied while on OKC, even if just to say NTY and not interested). Really all depends. I don't think my sympathy is, in any way, dependent on gender. I do have more sympathy for anyone in their 40s and still struggling than anyone who's 23 (male or female) because their time is running out.

 

I'm just thinking there's a lot more concern for women than men. Every time I open up a newspaper there's some new article where feminists are bashing Barbie dolls or models and movie stars for making women feel bad about their bodies.

 

What newspaper are you reading? Every time I open LS, there's some thread where some man is bashing feminists/feminism for somehow ruining his life. But I've never seen feminist issues featured predominantly and regularly in the newspaper on a daily basis like that! Granted, BC is getting some play these days -- but that's on both sides of the issue, and my local paper is very sympathetic to those who want to make us human incubators because of their religious beliefs, sadly.

 

This extends into other fields like all the various organizations and awareness campaigns for Breast cancer, yet very few equivalents for things like prostate cancer which are just as common.

 

Well, there are campaigns for prostate cancer as well. I cannot believe you'd be offended by breast cancer awareness and treatment (which actually -- men do sometimes get BC btw) -- I suppose it's more commercialized but most of the prostate cancer research in terms of being supported by national brands and such, but they both raise quite a bit of money and generally it's "lady products" that raise money for BC research (like Estee Lauder, etc). And significantly more men than women suffer from heart disease and that's another "biggie" disease that products raise money for. I'm all for raising money to find more effective treatments for ALL forms of cancer, personally, and I've never seen a huge push for cervical cancer awareness by the major corporations any more than one for prostate cancer.

 

I suggest everyone look into and support Movember. I sponsor several friends the past two Novembers through donations.

 

Why should anybody feel bad for her?

 

The reasons why she's single are completely her fault.

 

I thought most women wizened up when they got to that age and realized their true market value.

 

She could either, gasp lower her standards or double gasp, lose weight.

 

So when do people actually start worrying about guys?

 

About 7 years ago, I was single never had a girlfriend, 23, decent looking and 5'6. And now look where I am.

 

And the funniest thing, not one person in my family is worried about me.

 

This is a silly argument. The reasons why you're single are completely your fault as much as hers are hers. Everyone bears personal responsibility and that doesn't mean that it isn't sad when people are disappointed.

[somedude81]

This is a silly argument. The reasons why you're single are completely your fault as much as hers are hers. Everyone bears personal responsibility and that doesn't mean that it isn't sad when people are disappointed.

Please

 

The only thing physically off with me is my height. I don't have poor grooming, wear bad clothes, smell, fat, skinny etc. Yes I can put 8 hours into the gym and get ripped, but the affect that would have is minimal.

 

I do not go after girls that are out of my league. Unless I am actually lower in league than I think I am.

[zengirl]

Please

 

The only thing physically off with me is my height. I don't have poor grooming, wear bad clothes, smell, fat, skinny etc. Yes I can put 8 hours into the gym and get ripped, but the affect that would have is minimal.

 

I do not go after girls that are out of my league. Unless I am actually lower in league than I think I am.

 

Who said I thought your problems with women were what was physically wrong with you?

 

Personally, I think being overweight is far less unattractive and less of a hindrance to dating than many non-physical qualities.

[somedude81]

Sorry, I was focused on what I said in my previous post and trying to see how that woman's reasons for being single could be applied to me and explain why I'm single.

[zengirl]

Sorry, I was focused on what I said in my previous post and trying to see how that woman's reasons for being single could be applied to me and explain why I'm single.

 

No worries. And I'm not trying to be mean -- I'm trying to illustrate a point that a little bit of extra weight (or a lot frankly) doesn't make someone a non-person and is no more of an "well, it's their own fault people won't go out with them" than any other flaw someone can point out.

[somedude81]

No worries. And I'm not trying to be mean -- I'm trying to illustrate a point that a little bit of extra weight (or a lot frankly) doesn't make someone a non-person and is no more of an "well, it's their own fault people won't go out with them" than any other flaw someone can point out.

You're right, a woman being fat is not a real reason to explain why she's single. It may help explain why she can't get the men she really wants and in a real relationship. But there will always be men that are into her. Though they may be below what she desires and she has the right to be single.

 

But if she's crying that none of the pretty boys want her, I don't think she's deserving of any sympathy.

[zengirl]

You're right, a woman being fat is not a real reason to explain why she's single. It may help explain why she can't get the men she really wants and in a real relationship. But there will always be men that are into her. Though they may be below what she desires and she has the right to be single.

 

But if she's crying that none of the pretty boys want her, I don't think she's deserving of any sympathy.

 

Then, by the same standard, why are you deserving of any sympathy?

 

(honest question - not rhetorical)

[dasein]

There's an obvious difference between crying "none of the pretty boys want me," and "no women at all want me."

[somedude81]

Then, by the same standard, why are you deserving of any sympathy?

 

(honest question - not rhetorical)

And not one that I didn't expect

 

Because all I want is an average girl. I just need a normal girl, the kind that I'm completely surrounded by whenever I go to school or work.

 

No I don't want somebody body who is fat, but a few extra pounds is acceptable. We can also get into the whole breast size debacle, but honestly, it's rare that I actually see a girl and think that her boobs are too small for me. And trust me, I notice everybody's breasts.

[zengirl]

There's an obvious difference between crying "none of the pretty boys want me," and "no women at all want me."

 

And not one that I didn't expect

 

Because all I want is an average girl. I just need a normal girl, the kind that I'm completely surrounded by whenever I go to school or work.

 

No I don't want somebody body who is fat, but a few extra pounds is acceptable. We can also get into the whole breast size debacle, but honestly, it's rare that I actually see a girl and think that her boobs are too small for me. And trust me, I notice everybody's breasts.

 

SD has very clear physical standards that are not actually average (in the pure math sense of the word at least). 60% of American women are considered overweight, with the average size being 14. He also has breast size standards, as he said. The average American cup size is within his range (B and up -- average is C now, just went up from B recently, as America just got more obese too!) but the average girl in his size range of thin women is most likely to be an A cup, statistically.

 

Granted, if the girl in question only wants to date Brad Pitt or something, then that's unreasonable, but we've been given no indication she wants anything more unreasonable than what SD wants. ETA: In fact, I've been given EVERY reason to believe (based on his many, many posts on the subject) that SD wants someone in the higher echelon of attractiveness -- one of the "pretty girls" as one might say. Which I think is FINE but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, IMO.

 

SD may be completely surrounded by beautiful girls, but he spends most of his time at a college campus in SoCal. That wouldn't surprise me!

Edited March 20, 2012 by zengirl

[somedude81]

SD has very clear physical standards that are not actually average (in the pure math sense of the word at least). 60% of American women are considered overweight, with the average size being 14.

So you are telling me, that the average under 30 woman is a size 14?

 

 

 

He also has breast size standards, as he said. The average American cup size is within his range (B and up -- average is C now, just went up from B recently, as America just got more obese too!) but the average girl in his size range of thin women is most likely to be an A cup, statistically.

No, I'm pretty sure, that if the average breast size for obese women is a C, then the average breast size for non-obese women is a B, not an A.

 

Granted, if the girl in question only wants to date Brad Pitt or something, then that's unreasonable, but we've been given no indication she wants anything more unreasonable than what SD wants.

This lady has had suitors in the past, but she's one of those overweight women that doesn't like overweight guys. So she goes on internet dating profiles, messages the best looking most athletic guys, then cries when they realize she's fat...?

ETA: In fact, I've been given EVERY reason to believe (based on his many, many posts on the subject) that SD wants someone in the higher echelon of attractiveness -- one of the "pretty girls" as one might say.

Why do you keep jumping to your own assumptions? I already told you want a want, it's just a few posts up...

 

BTW, pretty girls are far more common than pretty boys.

 

 

SD may be completely surrounded by beautiful girls, but he spends most of his time at a college campus in SoCal. That wouldn't surprise me!

Why does it make a difference. It just means that most of the girls I see are 18-24.

 

It's not like it's some kind of fantasy land.

[dasein]

SD has very clear physical standards that are not actually average (in the pure math sense of the word at least)....

 

No, sorry, you just misanalogized the positions, they aren't the same, OP was very clear in stating the woman in question only messages the best physical specimens on the site. I doubt SD's expectations are anywhere near that. Trying to say that 60% of women are OW so he has higher standards than he should is not convincing at all. Expecting to date someone who is not OW is not an unreasonable expectation, many people can't respond sexually with OW people, and regardless, it's an entirely reasonable expectation for anyone to have, even someone who hasn't been able to get a GF.

[PlumPrincess]

I just thought Hetzer sounds like Dasein must have when he was younger.

[zengirl]

So you are telling me, that the average under 30 woman is a size 14?

 

The average 30 year old woman is what we should look at since it's the closest to your age that might have stats (29 probably won't). I searched it and came up with very little that was age related, except that obesity rates are relatively the same among that age and the average and an article from 2004 on women's sizes that shows moderate increase in size of women older than 36 but not much else. Granted, the average woman is always smaller at 19 than 39 BUT looking for only a particular age range -- particularly the most coveted, youthful age range -- is just adding another parameter to your level of how picky you are, isn't it?

 

No, I'm pretty sure, that if the average breast size for obese women is a C, then the average breast size for non-obese women is a B, not an A.

 

The average size for ANY women (all aggregated is a C, which has risen from a B since more women are obese and in the much larger sizes). That's how averages work! The average cup size for women who are size 0,2,4, and 6 is A for sure. The lower the BMI, generally, the lower the cup size. (Not counting fakes, and there are exceptions of course, but I'm talking averages.)

 

Why do you keep jumping to your own assumptions? I already told you want a want, it's just a few posts up...

 

You've said what you want in many threads.

 

BTW, pretty girls are far more common than pretty boys.

 

How would you know?

 

Why does it make a difference. It just means that most of the girls I see are 18-24.

 

It's not like it's some kind of fantasy land.

 

SoCal beauty standards are not close to average. It's not just the age that makes a difference, truly. Besides, you said you don't even notice fat women or their existence, so how could you know how many you see?

[dasein]

You should drop it, and just admit that a woman who wants only the top men off an OLD site is not analogous to a man who wants -any- nonfat, not flatchested woman.

[zengirl]

No, sorry, you just misanalogized the positions, they aren't the same, OP was very clear in stating the woman in question only messages the best physical specimens on the site. I doubt SD's expectations are anywhere near that. Trying to say that 60% of women are OW so he has higher standards than he should is not convincing at all. Expecting to date someone who is not OW is not an unreasonable expectation, many people can't respond sexually with OW people, and regardless, it's an entirely reasonable expectation for anyone to have, even someone who hasn't been able to get a GF.

 

Based on everything I've seen SD write, I'd guess his tastes place only very few of the most desirable women (the young, thin, busty ones) in the realm of his dating range. I actually have no issue with that. What I find odd is that he so fervently questions and criticizes any standards -- looks or otherwise -- any woman might have (I suspect because he fears they exclude him).

 

Clearly his expectations are NOT reasonable with what he's working with (looks and personality) though I have no reason to think its his looks holding him back. He is no different than the woman in the OP. He only wants women he cannot get.

 

FTR, I did not say -- nor do I think -- that expecting to date someone who's not OW is unreasonable (I never dated OW guys either!), though I do think it's distasteful to not see them as people who have every right to their own thoughts, standards, and frustrations. I'm merely telling him what "average" actually is since he always uses the word, and I doubt he truly means it. He wants an attractive girl, so he should just own up to that. There's nothing WRONG with wanting someone attractive either!

[zengirl]

You should drop it, and just admit that a woman who wants only the top men off an OLD site is not analogous to a man who wants -any- nonfat, not flatchested woman.

 

I don't believe that's what SD wants. And what do we call nonfat or not flatchested. Many A cups aren't flatchested, many women SD would rule out due to weight probably aren't fat. I strongly think SD is in no position to be judging anyone for having whatever standards they like.

 

ETA: I know, after all he's said, I no longer feel sorry for SD and his troubles. I'd have to know the woman from the OP a bit better and see how out there her standards actually are (in her own words) to sufficiently judge her. She could be as bad as SD. And I'm going off of what he's said in MANY threads, not just this one, FWIW.

[somedude81]

The average 30 year old woman is what we should look at since it's the closest to your age that might have stats (29 probably won't). I searched it and came up with very little that was age related, except that obesity rates are relatively the same among that age and the average and an article from 2004 on women's sizes that shows moderate increase in size of women older than 36 but not much else.

I'm definitely more into the 18-35 range then the 36-65.

 

The stats on that site are interesting, but I don't really know how measurements and sizes translate to actual weight.

 

Granted, the average woman is always smaller at 19 than 39 BUT looking for only a particular age range -- particularly the most coveted, youthful age range -- is just adding another parameter to your level of how picky you are, isn't it?

Yes, now that I am 30, I want somebody significantly younger and there are various reasons why.

 

But when I was actually 20-25 and wanted a 22 year old girl, did that mean I was being picky?

 

 

The average size for ANY women (all aggregated is a C, which has risen from a B since more women are obese and in the much larger sizes). That's how averages work! The average cup size for women who are size 0,2,4, and 6 is A for sure. The lower the BMI, generally, the lower the cup size. (Not counting fakes, and there are exceptions of course, but I'm talking averages.)

Once again, I don't really know how sizes work and can't tell a size 2 woman from a 6.

 

You've said what you want in many threads.

And the same thing I said here. An average looking, non-fat girl, with average breasts who is between 21 and 30ish.

How would you know?

Because the average girl is pretty. The average guy is just normal looking. It's rare that I actually see a guy and recognize that he's good looking.

 

 

SoCal beauty standards are not close to average. It's not just the age that makes a difference, truly. Besides, you said you don't even notice fat women or their existence, so how could you know how many you see?

What does "SoCal beauty standards" have to do with anything? Are you saying that just because somebody lives in SoCal, they are going to look better than if they lived in Wyoming?

 

And of course I notice fat women, they're kind of hard not to. But when I'm at home, I don't actually think about fat girls and forget that they exist. That's two completely different things.