Isn't it better to be optimistic than hopeless???

[ThaWholigan]

This is addressed to everyone but I am also speaking with the fellow inexperienced men (and women of course) on LS. Why should we continue to identify with our hopelessness about out situation. I am always looking to the bright side and attempting to exercise my demons with regards to my problems, especially with dating. So I cultivate a more optimistic outlook, or at least I put in the effort to do so.

 

I don't really see the same willingness from the other posts. I also don't see why one should be labelled delusional for deciding not to be unhappy about everything to do with dating, and at least trying to see it from a better POV and go back to the drawing board.

 

What is the attraction to being angry and bitter and feeling hopeless about ones situation? Isn't it better to be the opposite? Or is is simply harder to be the opposite?

[verhrzn]

It seems like negative people fall into two groups: the first group is people who were raised positive, but have hit a hard part of their life. For that group, thinking positively can be difficult, but that's because they need to cure the underlying issue: depression, a bad job, a bad relationship, whatever is slipping the poison into their life. The negative thinking is a symptom, but curing the symptom won't necessarily cure the disease.

 

For the second group (of which I count myself among), it's more that negativity is a part of who they are. They were raised on patterns of dysfunctional thinking; studies demonstrate that thinking the same thoughts can actually create grooves in your brain. The more engrained these grooves become, the more you fall into them, and the more you fall into them, the deeper they become.

 

If these patterns are then reinforced by the outside world, then this second group starts associating negativity with reality. It's basic human psychology; you tell someone something long enough, they will eventually believe you, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Humans were created to be social and impressionable animals.

 

This second group, in order to think positively, not only has to learn a whole new way of think, but also has to fight AGAINST their perspective of reality. They have to develop new neural pathways, and completely relearn how they interpret their environment. Then they ALSO need to somehow convince themselves that this new reality is "correct." Like forcing yourself to say the sky is green.

 

For me, I resist "thinking positively" or being "hopeful" because I don't want to be delusional. How many countless threads do we see of posters scoffing that women have unrealistic standards? That fat ladies should KNOW they can't wear bikinis, oh my god why do the uggos inflict themselves upon us normal people?

 

By keeping myself "negative," I believe I'm keeping myself in line with society's expectations of me. We can all scoff to not care what other people think... but we all follow social rules to one extent or another. We all crave acceptance and validation. I see my attitudes towards myself as realistic... if that means they're negative, so be it, at least I am not creating a delusional portrait of myself.

 

This goes back to the idea of reality... is it subjective? Do we all live in different realities, constructed inside our heads? Can you control your reality? Does controlling your reality control OTHERS' reality?

 

Lastly, I can't speak for everyone, but I always hope that my negativity and despair will burn my desires out of me. I want a family, and a boyfriend, but I can't acquire those, and I waste so, so much time desiring that. I hope that someday my negativity and hopelessness are so overpowering they overwhelm those urges and get rid of them, and then I can just get on with my life alone. There's a thread about it somewhere... a guy who became so hopeless eventually he realized he'd rid himself of the desire of companionship, for sex, etc.

[ThaWholigan]

It seems like negative people fall into two groups: the first group is people who were raised positive, but have hit a hard part of their life. For that group, thinking positively can be difficult, but that's because they need to cure the underlying issue: depression, a bad job, a bad relationship, whatever is slipping the poison into their life. The negative thinking is a symptom, but curing the symptom won't necessarily cure the disease.

 

For the second group (of which I count myself among), it's more that negativity is a part of who they are. They were raised on patterns of dysfunctional thinking; studies demonstrate that thinking the same thoughts can actually create grooves in your brain. The more engrained these grooves become, the more you fall into them, and the more you fall into them, the deeper they become.

If these patterns are then reinforced by the outside world, then this second group starts associating negativity with reality. It's basic human psychology; you tell someone something long enough, they will eventually believe you, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Humans were created to be social and impressionable animals.

 

This second group, in order to think positively, not only has to learn a whole new way of think, but also has to fight AGAINST their perspective of reality. They have to develop new neural pathways, and completely relearn how they interpret their environment. Then they ALSO need to somehow convince themselves that this new reality is "correct." Like forcing yourself to say the sky is green.

 

For me, I resist "thinking positively" or being "hopeful" because I don't want to be delusional. How many countless threads do we see of posters scoffing that women have unrealistic standards? That fat ladies should KNOW they can't wear bikinis, oh my god why do the uggos inflict themselves upon us normal people?

 

By keeping myself "negative," I believe I'm keeping myself in line with society's expectations of me. We can all scoff to not care what other people think... but we all follow social rules to one extent or another. We all crave acceptance and validation. I see my attitudes towards myself as realistic... if that means they're negative, so be it, at least I am not creating a delusional portrait of myself.

 

This goes back to the idea of reality... is it subjective? Do we all live in different realities, constructed inside our heads? Can you control your reality? Does controlling your reality control OTHERS' reality?

 

Lastly, I can't speak for everyone, but I always hope that my negativity and despair will burn my desires out of me. I want a family, and a boyfriend, but I can't acquire those, and I waste so, so much time desiring that. I hope that someday my negativity and hopelessness are so overpowering they overwhelm those urges and get rid of them, and then I can just get on with my life alone. There's a thread about it somewhere... a guy who became so hopeless eventually he realized he'd rid himself of the desire of companionship, for sex, etc.

 

I think this is probably the most honest and telling post from you I have read, and actually explains a lot. Sometimes I get ahead of myself and I believe that just because I have often overcome much of my problems that people often struggle to do the same as they neither have the encouragement nor the mentality to challenge these things. I think the parts I bolded stood out to me a great deal.

 

I cannot tell you how to overcome your problems unfortunately, but I would hope that things will turn around for you.

 

P.S. I do believe that we control our own realities to an extent, our perceptions of reality as a construct is generally unique to us in some fashion, and as a result should we assume control of them somehow, then our outlook will change as a result.

[joystickd]

It seems like negative people fall into two groups: the first group is people who were raised positive, but have hit a hard part of their life. For that group, thinking positively can be difficult, but that's because they need to cure the underlying issue: depression, a bad job, a bad relationship, whatever is slipping the poison into their life. The negative thinking is a symptom, but curing the symptom won't necessarily cure the disease.

 

For the second group (of which I count myself among), it's more that negativity is a part of who they are. They were raised on patterns of dysfunctional thinking; studies demonstrate that thinking the same thoughts can actually create grooves in your brain. The more engrained these grooves become, the more you fall into them, and the more you fall into them, the deeper they become.

 

If these patterns are then reinforced by the outside world, then this second group starts associating negativity with reality. It's basic human psychology; you tell someone something long enough, they will eventually believe you, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Humans were created to be social and impressionable animals.

 

This second group, in order to think positively, not only has to learn a whole new way of think, but also has to fight AGAINST their perspective of reality. They have to develop new neural pathways, and completely relearn how they interpret their environment. Then they ALSO need to somehow convince themselves that this new reality is "correct." Like forcing yourself to say the sky is green.

 

For me, I resist "thinking positively" or being "hopeful" because I don't want to be delusional. How many countless threads do we see of posters scoffing that women have unrealistic standards? That fat ladies should KNOW they can't wear bikinis, oh my god why do the uggos inflict themselves upon us normal people?

 

By keeping myself "negative," I believe I'm keeping myself in line with society's expectations of me. We can all scoff to not care what other people think... but we all follow social rules to one extent or another. We all crave acceptance and validation. I see my attitudes towards myself as realistic... if that means they're negative, so be it, at least I am not creating a delusional portrait of myself.

 

This goes back to the idea of reality... is it subjective? Do we all live in different realities, constructed inside our heads? Can you control your reality? Does controlling your reality control OTHERS' reality?

 

Lastly, I can't speak for everyone, but I always hope that my negativity and despair will burn my desires out of me. I want a family, and a boyfriend, but I can't acquire those, and I waste so, so much time desiring that. I hope that someday my negativity and hopelessness are so overpowering they overwhelm those urges and get rid of them, and then I can just get on with my life alone. There's a thread about it somewhere... a guy who became so hopeless eventually he realized he'd rid himself of the desire of companionship, for sex, etc.

 

The map is not the territory. This means a humans were construct models or maps of actual reality based on our senses and experiences. This "map" exists is a separate object from the territory but also exist as an object within the territory. A perfect example of this would be this: Why is the sky so blue and beautiful? It must have been made like that just for me. It was made beautiful so that I would enjoy looking at it. Except it's the other way around. The sky was not made to fit our sense of beauty, the sky was here before us, we have a sense of beauty that evolved to fit the sky because the sky happened to be blue! In a sense the sky caused us to be what we are (creatures who mostly agree that a blue sky is beautiful).

 

The only thing we really can do is not let setbacks or other people's reality get us down and affect our view of reality because everyone's reality is not an accurate of the actual reality. Its only a formed model or map of what we have experienced in our life.

[verhrzn]

P.S. I do believe that we control our own realities to an extent, our perceptions of reality as a construct is generally unique to us in some fashion, and as a result should we assume control of them somehow, then our outlook will change as a result.

 

I wonder about that sentiment... I just finished re-reading "Under the Banner of Heaven," which discusses Mormon extremists and people who do unspeakable acts in the name of their belief. Obviously it has a religious slant, but to these people, their reality... that God ordered them to murder an 18 month old baby... is the truth. But it obviously conflicts with the truth of the rest of society-that murder is wrong, especially of children.

 

So, are both realities correct? And what point do we draw the line between reality and delusion? Is there a shared sense of reality that we can use to judge other people's actions?

 

The fundamental question I have is, if you can change your outlook and reality, at what point do you stop? Where is the line between negative/realistic/positive?

 

I've read some pretty fascinating studies that show that 1) depression actually may be a evolutionary beneficial trait and 2) that slightly negative people actually have a better understanding of their lives than either very negative, optimistic or very optimistic individuals. Slightly negative people are more able to accurately predict other people's reactions and future events. I found that very interesting.

[joystickd]

 

For me, I resist "thinking positively" or being "hopeful" because I don't want to be delusional. How many countless threads do we see of posters scoffing that women have unrealistic standards? That fat ladies should KNOW they can't wear bikinis, oh my god why do the uggos inflict themselves upon us normal people?

 

By keeping myself "negative," I believe I'm keeping myself in line with society's expectations of me. We can all scoff to not care what other people think... but we all follow social rules to one extent or another. We all crave acceptance and validation. I see my attitudes towards myself as realistic... if that means they're negative, so be it, at least I am not creating a delusional portrait of myself.

 

 

Being positive is not being delusional. This mind set here is the main reason you have trouble with men. You may not outwardly show it on a conscious level but the beliefs are there subconsciously and it comes out in ways people would never think about. There are guys that think you look good on here and honestly if I met someone like you I wouldn't hesitate to approach and I know if I am willing I also know there are many others that are willing to want to date you. I will put money on it if you really worked to change you mindset a while from now you will find that more guys are attracted to you and willing to date you. Its not always physical attractiveness that gets men and its the same with men they want confident women too. If you don't believe in yourself who else will want to

[joystickd]

I wonder about that sentiment... I just finished re-reading "Under the Banner of Heaven," which discusses Mormon extremists and people who do unspeakable acts in the name of their belief. Obviously it has a religious slant, but to these people, their reality... that God ordered them to murder an 18 month old baby... is the truth. But it obviously conflicts with the truth of the rest of society-that murder is wrong, especially of children.

 

So, are both realities correct? And what point do we draw the line between reality and delusion? Is there a shared sense of reality that we can use to judge other people's actions?

 

The fundamental question I have is, if you can change your outlook and reality, at what point do you stop? Where is the line between negative/realistic/positive?

 

I've read some pretty fascinating studies that show that 1) depression actually may be a evolutionary beneficial trait and 2) that slightly negative people actually have a better understanding of their lives than either very negative, optimistic or very optimistic individuals. Slightly negative people are more able to accurately predict other people's reactions and future events. I found that very interesting.

just remember overly optimistic people are often the most successful with life

[aj22one]

Problem is negativity reinforced often and long enough can breed expectation of failure. Which then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It takes a lot of effort to break that.

[ThaWholigan]

I wonder about that sentiment... I just finished re-reading "Under the Banner of Heaven," which discusses Mormon extremists and people who do unspeakable acts in the name of their belief. Obviously it has a religious slant, but to these people, their reality... that God ordered them to murder an 18 month old baby... is the truth. But it obviously conflicts with the truth of the rest of society-that murder is wrong, especially of children.

 

So, are both realities correct? And what point do we draw the line between reality and delusion? Is there a shared sense of reality that we can use to judge other people's actions?

 

The fundamental question I have is, if you can change your outlook and reality, at what point do you stop? Where is the line between negative/realistic/positive?

 

I think that question cannot really be answered fully, as you would have to take into account the self-awareness and the social/emotional intelligence of the individual in question. There is indeed a shared sense of reality in place though, but judgement is usually subjective in some cases.

 

I've read some pretty fascinating studies that show that 1) depression actually may be a evolutionary beneficial trait and 2) that slightly negative people actually have a better understanding of their lives than either very negative, optimistic or very optimistic individuals. Slightly negative people are more able to accurately predict other people's reactions and future events. I found that very interesting.

 

Slightly negative people I would characterize that as introspective people, again relating to self-awareness and social/emotional intelligence. Sometimes introverts are in the best position to develop themselves accordingly.

[somedude81]

It's hard to be optimistic and hopeful when sh*t only happens in your life.

 

Over time, reality keeps banging you in the head and you start to lose the half-full feeling.

 

I'm seriously starting to wonder if I should start getting drinking or doing drugs to make life more bearable. And yes I realize how horrible of a statement that is.

[ThaWholigan]

It's hard to be optimistic and hopeful when sh*t only happens in your life.

 

Over time, reality keeps banging you in the head and you start to lose the half-full feeling.

 

I'm seriously starting to wonder if I should start getting drinking or doing drugs to make life more bearable. And yes I realize how horrible of a statement that is.

Check your PMs

[jerbear]

Optimistic people tend to live longer and surround themselves with other like minded people.

 

Don't be Melvin the robot in Hitchhiker's guide.

[somedude81]

Check your PMs

Yeah I saw them, I'll look over the links later.

 

Honestly dude, I've been part of the PU scene for a very long time.

 

Not getting any results from that is part of why I feel so hopeless.

[FrustratedStandards]

Optimism brings disappointment.

[ThaWholigan]

Optimism brings disappointment.

And negativity brings??......

[somedude81]

Optimism brings disappointment.

I thought about liking this post, then I suddenly got the image of both of us sitting on the floor taking turns cutting ourselves *shudder*

 

But I do agree with you. I try really hard to avoid getting excited for anything. Because 9 times out of 10, it's going to fall apart and I'll just end up disappointed.

[ThaWholigan]

That's such a crappy way to live in my opinion. I've been disappointed many times before and that hasn't stopped me being positive about things in my life.

[Ruby Slippers]

First of all, I've always admired you, ThaWholigan, for your positive attitude. It's admirable and infectious.

 

Second, I can put aside humility for a second and say that I've accomplished some surprising things, especially given where I came from (bad family, no money). And a crazy optimistic attitude was the main driver behind these accomplishments.

 

I sometimes struggle to keep my attitude positive, especially now that I've been single and haven't found a good match for quite a while. But I know that I never get anywhere with a bad attitude. So I make friends with positive people and work to keep my attitude optimistic as much as possible.

[FrustratedStandards]

And negativity brings??......

 

If you expect the worst to happen, and it doesn't, you will be pleasantly surprised. That's better than expecting wonderful things and then being disappointed when they aren't as great as you had anticipated.

 

Better to be prepared for the worst.

[ThaWholigan]

If you expect the worst to happen, and it doesn't, you will be pleasantly surprised. That's better than expecting wonderful things and then being disappointed when they aren't as great as you had anticipated.

 

Better to be prepared for the worst.

 

In my experience, expecting the worst to happen usually prompts the worst to happen, hence one falls into a negative loop where one is down on everything. I can deal with the disappointments. I'd rather do so than be pessimistic about everything.

 

Being prepared for the worst doesn't equal not being optimistic IMO.

 

First of all, I've always admired you, ThaWholigan, for your positive attitude. It's admirable and infectious.

 

Second, I can put aside humility for a second and say that I've accomplished some surprising things, especially given where I came from (bad family, no money). And a crazy optimistic attitude was the main driver behind these accomplishments.

 

I sometimes struggle to keep my attitude positive, especially now that I've been single and haven't found a good match for quite a while. But I know that I never get anywhere with a bad attitude. So I make friends with positive people and work to keep my attitude optimistic as much as possible.

 

Thank you . Agree with this all as well, I think that if I didn't have the attitude and determination I have, I would have been a completely socially inept man with no possible future. I can never allow that to happen to me, so I also work hard at being positive also. It's a struggle, but it's a struggle I can deal with, because I deal with a lot of disappointments too, I just choose not to let them block me.

[FrustratedStandards]

In my experience, expecting the worst to happen usually prompts the worst to happen, hence one falls into a negative loop where one is down on everything.

 

Really? That hasn't been my experience. When I expect good things i'm more often than not disappointed. If I go expecting the worst, I usually end up having a better time than I thought.

 

Each to their own I guess. Whatever works.

[ThaWholigan]

Really? That hasn't been my experience. When I expect good things i'm more often than not disappointed. If I go expecting the worst, I usually end up having a better time than I thought.

 

Each to their own I guess. Whatever works.

I guess it depends on how people deal with their disappointments. I always happen to bounce back.....I don't really like to accredit this to luck but I guess I seem to recover quicker.

[veggirl]

Optimism is EXTREMELY attractive. A negative nancy (err no offense to the poster on here named that LOL) is no fun for anyone to be around -- romantically or platonically.

 

Wholigan you have an amazing attitude, it's so refreshing and nice. You seem like a real pleasure to be around. I truly don't understand why you are single (unless you choose to be).

[FitChick]

I've always admired you, ThaWholigan, for your positive attitude. It's admirable and infectious.

 

I know that I never get anywhere with a bad attitude. So I make friends with positive people and work to keep my attitude optimistic as much as possible.

 

I am the same. I used to be negative and depressed because I had angry, depressed parents. Then I eliminated dozens of negative beliefs I had by using the Lefkoe Method and my life changed for the better. I sometimes feel physically ill when I am around negative people. I am very sensitive to other people's energy. Being optimistic is a much better way to move through life, in my opinion.

[somedude81]

Optimism is EXTREMELY attractive. A negative nancy (err no offense to the poster on here named that LOL) is no fun for anyone to be around -- romantically or platonically.

 

Wholigan you have an amazing attitude, it's so refreshing and nice. You seem like a real pleasure to be around. I truly don't understand why you are single (unless you choose to be).

That's because optimism by itself is useless. Almost so to the point where it doesn't mean anything.

 

What really matters is the ability to give women the necessary feelings to see you as more than just a friend. Without that, nothing will never happen, no matter how cheery the guy is.