sibernox Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 I know it's a long post but please if you have 3 minutes, I could really use the help. I'll try to make a long story short. I've been seeing this girl for 3-4 months now. She's great - funny, down to earth, caring, outgoing, sexy. Anyways, she broke up with her ex-bf of 2.5 years back in September, the main reason being that he came out as being gay (but they also had a bunch of other problems). They stayed 'best friends'. They used to live together and then she moved out a couple of weeks after they broke up. She told me all the details on our first date. Details being that she wanted to be there for him in this tough time, she owes him a lot and still loves him (but assured me it's only as a friend and that I have nothing to worry about). I met the guy a week or 2 into our relationship and he was actually pretty nice, we got along. About a month go, we were all hanging out as a group with her friends and her ex was there. He was acting weird throughout the night and even left without saying bye. I told her to ask him if he felt weird seeing us together. She asked him and he said "I felt like I wanted to rip his (my) head off". I found it weird, but he said it was just him being protective of his friend, and not jealous over his lover. That was a month ago. About a week after that incident, he started seeing girls again. I told her how uncomfortable I am with her hanging out with her ex-bf (who is now supposedly straight again?). Now, I never and would never tell her who she can and can't see, I simply told her that it made me extremely uncomfortable. She said she'd try to speak to him less and see him less. She felt the same way about me talking to a girl I used to go out with so I made sure to cut all contact with her. I was completely cool with the guy the first month or so of our relationship, because these things hadn't come up. Anyways, a couple of days after that I was with my girl in bed and she was texting her ex about a girl he's started seeing. I decided to try to be nice and give him advice, and he sent a text saying something like "is there any time I can speak to you in private? it seems like he's always between me and you". It seemed like he was provoking me. I had to draw a line so I told her to back off a bit and not talk to him for a bit. She had to make a choice. 2 days after that her and I walked out of my house to see him parked in front of my house, he sped off as soon as he saw us. That was not okay. I told her I had to draw a line and that if she didn't stop seeing him I was ready to walk away. She said she'd talk to him and stop seeing him, and they did stop all contact for 3 weeks. But now, this weekend is his birthday so I 'allowed' her to give him a call and go have a coffee with him, on 1 condition: that she doesn't go to his place. Anyways, on my way to pick her up, I called to ask where she was and she told me she was at his house just to pick up some acne cream ( I believe her, but still not ok with it). I was obviously pissed and almost lost it. She wants me to be okay with him again, she wants us to be able to hang out as friends again. I don't know if I can do that though. She also wants to take him out for breakfast sunday. Am I way out of line/irrational? I mean, it is her EX BF of 3 years. They have history, they 'used to be?' in love. They slept together, even after he came out as being supposedly gay. Thing is, I do believe that they're only platonic now, but I still can't help but feel uncomfortable with the thought of them texting/hanging out/talking a lot. What should I do?
eleanorhurting Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 i have had very bad experiences with people who are still in contact with their recent ex. It always ends the same way. If I were you, i would be careful. 2
TaraMaiden Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 If i were you - ? I'd dump her. she is incapable of seeing she is crossing boundaries (take that as the understatement of the year!) and she is still contin uing a close relationship with him. Much closer than it should be. she's either broken up with him - or she isn't. She's behaving as if she isn't. So in your place, i would tell her that while he is still taking up so much of her life and attention, you're not prepared to share her emotionally; you realise, that of course, she's entitled to have friends, but this is excessive, intrusive and insulting. "I felt like I wanted to rip his (my) head off". "is there any time I can speak to you in private? it seems like he's always between me and you" WTF?!? Are you kidding me? Well, what you therefore do, is to tell her, that until, and unless this guy is complete, total NC history - they can have each other... Remember, there is a reason they broke up. his being gay is either a lie, or he's as possessive as a bff...... well, let them re-discover why it didn't work - but don't on any account ever take her back. because the reason you two guys aren't working out, is abundantly clear. 1
Author sibernox Posted March 17, 2012 Author Posted March 17, 2012 If i were you - ? I'd dump her. she is incapable of seeing she is crossing boundaries (take that as the understatement of the year!) and she is still contin uing a close relationship with him. Much closer than it should be. she's either broken up with him - or she isn't. She's behaving as if she isn't. So in your place, i would tell her that while he is still taking up so much of her life and attention, you're not prepared to share her emotionally; you realise, that of course, she's entitled to have friends, but this is excessive, intrusive and insulting. WTF?!? Are you kidding me? Well, what you therefore do, is to tell her, that until, and unless this guy is complete, total NC history - they can have each other... Remember, there is a reason they broke up. his being gay is either a lie, or he's as possessive as a bff...... well, let them re-discover why it didn't work - but don't on any account ever take her back. because the reason you two guys aren't working out, is abundantly clear. Thanks for the feedback, really appreciate it. I just don't understand how she can't see that what she's doing is inappropriate, even if it is innocent. At the same time, I don't want her to lose a friend. Call me too nice or whatnot, but relationships come and go, and friends are more likely to stay. With that said, I'm torn on what to do. I don't want to seem too controlling/possessive but this is not okay.
TaraMaiden Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 If anyone is being controlling and possessive, it's him... In a nutshell, he can't have her, being gay - but he's sure as hell making sure nobody else has her, either. Now, i take your point - if she was just hanging out with a BFF a little too much, i could see why perhaps, it's pssoible someone might see you as being a bit heavy-handed. but he's her ex. he is taking up an awful lot of her time and attention. time and attention she should be devoting to you.... Either he is extremely screwed up, re his sexuality - or she just didn't rock his world... either way, for him to want to tear your head off, and then say he was just speaking as a friend, is definitely off whack. So when you next see her, you need to give her one ultimatum, and one only; she can make a choice, here, now, immediately. no, i mean, right here, right now: him - the guy it din't work with, who dumped her because he was supposedly gay, but is now straight again - or you - the guy she has purportedly chosen to start out afresh with and create a new life for herself with.... but it sounds awfully 'rebound' to me.... and if she prevaricates for one second too long, or tries to plead with you to not - put her on the spot/make her choose/give her a chance to think - THAT is all the answer you should need.
veggirl Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 I just don't understand how she can't see that what she's doing is inappropriate She knows, she just doesn't care. Or she thinks she is exception, the special snowflake and you just don't understand. Regardless, she doesn't care that it bothers you or she would stop. I would so so so dump this girl. She and her "ex" have extremely unresolved feelings for each other...can practically guarantee there will be a reconcilliation once you are out of the picture, sorry 1
Author sibernox Posted March 17, 2012 Author Posted March 17, 2012 If anyone is being controlling and possessive, it's him... In a nutshell, he can't have her, being gay - but he's sure as hell making sure nobody else has her, either. Now, i take your point - if she was just hanging out with a BFF a little too much, i could see why perhaps, it's pssoible someone might see you as being a bit heavy-handed. but he's her ex. he is taking up an awful lot of her time and attention. time and attention she should be devoting to you.... Either he is extremely screwed up, re his sexuality - or she just didn't rock his world... either way, for him to want to tear your head off, and then say he was just speaking as a friend, is definitely off whack. So when you next see her, you need to give her one ultimatum, and one only; she can make a choice, here, now, immediately. no, i mean, right here, right now: him - the guy it din't work with, who dumped her because he was supposedly gay, but is now straight again - or you - the guy she has purportedly chosen to start out afresh with and create a new life for herself with.... but it sounds awfully 'rebound' to me.... and if she prevaricates for one second too long, or tries to plead with you to not - put her on the spot/make her choose/give her a chance to think - THAT is all the answer you should need. She's so good at playing victim though. She'd just say something like "I can't believe you're making me choose between you and my best friend, I would never ask you to do something like that." Thing that sucks is that I like her, but if she doesn't respect my wishes then I can't stay with her... Thanks. She knows, she just doesn't care. Or she thinks she is exception, the special snowflake and you just don't understand. Regardless, she doesn't care that it bothers you or she would stop. I would so so so dump this girl. She and her "ex" have extremely unresolved feelings for each other...can practically guarantee there will be a reconcilliation once you are out of the picture, sorry Do you think that she still has feelings for him even if they had broken up before I was ever in the picture? I know that sounds dumb, but wouldn't she just get back together with him if she wanted to be with him? I came out straight-up and asked her if she still had feelings for him and she said no, so I don't know...
phineas Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 errr... OP, i've read this before. somewhere. Did you post it on another forum or here over the last few months?
TaraMaiden Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 She's so good at playing victim though. She'd just say something like "I can't believe you're making me choose between you and my best friend, I would never ask you to do something like that." Ok recognise this for what it is - it's deflecting the problem back onto your shoulders. it's projecting the fault back on to you - as if you are the one with the problem. it's the classic - "I know you're right, and i knew this was coming - but i don't want to be put into the position of taking responsibility for the fact that i am ruining this - so have it back, because it gives me time to think - and to look innocently and justifiably outraged, which is exactly what i want, because it makes you feel guilty for even proposing such a thing." got it? Do you think that she still has feelings for him even if they had broken up before I was ever in the picture? please forgive me for my bluntness, but this is a really dumb question... Honestly? You're asking? OK.... If you were a stranger reading your post - what do you think? And what would you tell the guy to do - ? I know that sounds dumb, but wouldn't she just get back together with him if she wanted to be with him? no, because apparently the reason they broke up, was that he thought he was gay. she moves out of his bedroom, and out of his life - i mean, if he's into guys, there's no place for her there at all, is there....? now, he's confused, and thinks he may be straight after all.... but she's in the rebound relationship - so instead of going back in, he's keeping her at arm's length, because it's not actually who he wants to screw, but they got too close for him to let go of... maybe.....? I came out straight-up and asked her if she still had feelings for him and she said no, so I don't know... look - the thing I would strongly advise you to NOT do, is to try to second-guess what kind of a set-up they have... look at the set up YOU have. is it what you want? no. Is it the way you want it? no. are you happy for it to continue being like this? No. Strike three.... Its - not - working. so you have to decide which would be the greater folly. And 'staying' sounds really out of whack, to me.....
veggirl Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 Do you think that she still has feelings for him even if they had broken up before I was ever in the picture? I know that sounds dumb, but wouldn't she just get back together with him if she wanted to be with him? I came out straight-up and asked her if she still had feelings for him and she said no, so I don't know... Yeah she got together with you too quickly to not have still had feelings for him. I think you are her rebound. errr... OP, i've read this before. somewhere. Did you post it on another forum or here over the last few months? Yeah this was posted somewhere else here recently, I know I read it and was thinking the same thing. He probably did not get enough replies, glad to see he is getting them on this section though and hope it helps him.
Author sibernox Posted March 17, 2012 Author Posted March 17, 2012 errr... OP, i've read this before. somewhere. Did you post it on another forum or here over the last few months? I posted this last month, yes. Things were fine for a couple of weeks (when they weren't speaking) but now everything is back to how it used to be. Ok recognise this for what it is - it's deflecting the problem back onto your shoulders. it's projecting the fault back on to you - as if you are the one with the problem. it's the classic - "I know you're right, and i knew this was coming - but i don't want to be put into the position of taking responsibility for the fact that i am ruining this - so have it back, because it gives me time to think - and to look innocently and justifiably outraged, which is exactly what i want, because it makes you feel guilty for even proposing such a thing." got it? Thanks for wording my thoughts exactly, couldn't have put it better. Was just having trouble grasping it. please forgive me for my bluntness, but this is a really dumb question... Honestly? You're asking? OK.... If you were a stranger reading your post - what do you think? And what would you tell the guy to do - ?yeah... :S no, because apparently the reason they broke up, was that he thought he was gay. she moves out of his bedroom, and out of his life - i mean, if he's into guys, there's no place for her there at all, is there....? now, he's confused, and thinks he may be straight after all.... but she's in the rebound relationship - so instead of going back in, he's keeping her at arm's length, because it's not actually who he wants to screw, but they got too close for him to let go of... maybe.....? That's what I keep telling her. But she said she spoke to him in length, he assured her he has no more feelings for her. The "wanting to rip my head off" comment was more from a protective friend rather than a jealous ex. Thing is, I do believe her I think. I think she's just 'dumb' in not understanding how inappropriate it is. I do believe her when she says she wants to be with me and only me, but I still can't help feeling uncomfortable with it. look - the thing I would strongly advise you to NOT do, is to try to second-guess what kind of a set-up they have... look at the set up YOU have. is it what you want? no. Is it the way you want it? no. are you happy for it to continue being like this? No. Strike three.... Its - not - working. so you have to decide which would be the greater folly. And 'staying' sounds really out of whack, to me.....thanks for all the feedback, really appreciate it.
Author sibernox Posted March 23, 2012 Author Posted March 23, 2012 We had a big argument about this tonight. She's seen him 3 times in the past week, and they text a lot. She wants me to hear him out, apparently he wants to meet with me face to face so he can apologize and explain himself. I can't stand his face so I told her I don't know if I wana do that. I'm still very uncomfortable with the thought of them hanging out and being all buddy buddy, but if I wana be with her, I have no choice. I asked her if she'd walk away if I told her to choose between me and him and she said "Would you really want me to be that unhappy? I don't want to lose my best friend." I don't know what to do anymore...
veggirl Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 We had a big argument about this tonight. She's seen him 3 times in the past week, and they text a lot. She wants me to hear him out, apparently he wants to meet with me face to face so he can apologize and explain himself. I can't stand his face so I told her I don't know if I wana do that. I'm still very uncomfortable with the thought of them hanging out and being all buddy buddy, but if I wana be with her, I have no choice. I asked her if she'd walk away if I told her to choose between me and him and she said "Would you really want me to be that unhappy? I don't want to lose my best friend." I don't know what to do anymore... DUMP HER! Have some self respect. Re the bolded, she is MANIPULATING you and you are letting her! She is making you feel bad for the choices she is making. What she said to you tells you that she is choosing HIM. You will always be second fiddle to her "ex". Don't you want a girl who puts you as her priority, rather than her ex?! Come on, guy.
TaraMaiden Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 We had a big argument about this tonight. She's seen him 3 times in the past week, and they text a lot. She wants me to hear him out, apparently he wants to meet with me face to face so he can apologize and explain himself. I can't stand his face so I told her I don't know if I wana do that. Standard ploy. If he becomes your 'friend' too, how could you object to his carrying on being her friend? i mean, "you to now see eye to eye, right? so it's ok for things to carry on, because - we're all buddies now!" Yeah....right..... Tell her that he might be her friend but as far as you're concerned, you can't even think of going there. Why would you want to be friends with someone who dumped your GF on the pretext of being gay (liar) and who now seems to think that he has the right to still be a part of her life? IT'S OVER!! I'm still very uncomfortable with the thought of them hanging out and being all buddy buddy, but if I wana be with her, I have no choice. Of course you have a choice - You always have a choice. You either keep behaving like a doormat, and lose her respect, because she will realise she can walk all over you and treat you like dirt - or you tell her - "don't call him, don't talk to him, but you have an hour to think - and in that hour, you had better choose. " This isn't on you - this is her baggage to deal with. I asked her if she'd walk away if I told her to choose between me and him and she said "Would you really want me to be that unhappy? I don't want to lose my best friend." She doesn't get it... does she? YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE HER BEST FRIEND - !! she's turning the guilt of getting rid of him, onto your shoulders - and that's neither fair nor right. this is not your problem - but she's projecting it onto you, to make it your problem. you have to man up, honey, and tell her - it's either him or you. but she has to bear in mind that if she chooses him, she loses both of you - because he dumped her and subsequently asked for her help in finding a GF - so he doesn't want to go out with her again, and won't take her back. (And do you seriously think any new GF he finds will tolerate his ex hanging on like a leech?) you need to either nip this in the bud, now - or walk away with dignity, like a man - because seriously - is all this drama worth the effort...?
Author sibernox Posted March 23, 2012 Author Posted March 23, 2012 Thank you for your replies. Thing is, like I said, I do believe that they only want to be platonic now. They were friends before they ever started going out and they stayed friends after they broke up, she helped him with his whole being confused about his sexuality thing and whatnot, but it still doesn't make it acceptable in my eyes. I just don't know how to explain that to her. She keeps saying things like "I would never ask you to do something like that" and "He's my best friend, I don't want to lose him". I also have a strong feeling that if I told her to choose between him and me, she'd choose to continue her 'friendship' with him while I'll be left looking like the bad guy that threw it all away due to my insecurities. I cannot stand the thought of her with someone else, laughing with someone else, hugging someone else, in bed with someone else.
TaraMaiden Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Thank you for your replies. Thing is, like I said, I do believe that they only want to be platonic now. That's not the point. The point is, it's seriously impinging on your time with her, building resentment, and she should be treating you as her best friend, not him. She should be concentrating on building her relationship with you - not pulling it to pieces before it's had a really good chance to get off the ground.... They were friends before they ever started going out and they stayed friends after they broke up, she helped him with his whole being confused about his sexuality thing and whatnot, but it still doesn't make it acceptable in my eyes. well, honey, in that case - why the hell are you still putting up with it - ? friendship is a precious commodity - but she has to realise that right now, this is wholly inappropriate... she cannot have the best of both worlds... I just don't know how to explain that to her. She keeps saying things like "I would never ask you to do something like that" and "He's my best friend, I don't want to lose him". Again, she's projecting her "wrong-doing" onto you, and turning the guilt around... If the friendship is sound, she won't lose him - and if the friendship is sound, he will understand, and respect your wishes.... You have to make her see it's inappropriate and disrespectful, and it hurts you. I also have a strong feeling that if I told her to choose between him and me, she'd choose to continue her 'friendship' with him while I'll be left looking like the bad guy that threw it all away due to my insecurities. I cannot stand the thought of her with someone else, laughing with someone else, hugging someone else, in bed with someone else. Then this has all the makings of an unhealthy relationship, in that you have jealousy and self-esteem issues.... you have to strike a happy medium for yourself - but what she's doing is most definitely not feeding or nourishing your relationship. And you need to address that.
Author sibernox Posted March 26, 2012 Author Posted March 26, 2012 I told her everything I had to say. She was very unresponsive initially but I sat her down and told her everything on my mind. That I know what I deserve and this isn't it, I deserve better. And if she can't give me that then I unfortunately have to walk. I told her to think about it for a couple of hours and get back to me. In regards to her ex, she keeps saying "why would there be any problems if you trust ME 100%? that's all you should need!" and I tell her that it's just extremely disrespectful towards me.
TaraMaiden Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Good for you. The ball is now in her court. Mind you, if she contacts him to discuss it, that tells you 2 things: She can't make up her mind without his input - her seeking his input tells you she's made up her mind.
dasein Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Simple. Recent exes have to -go- always, regardless of whatever rationalizations, assurances pour forth, or you have to go. Really no other way sorry to say. She sounds like a manipulative cake-eater, and this will likely transfer into other areas of your relationship with the end result being misery for you. Bad bet. Don't play. Seek other better options.
Author sibernox Posted April 7, 2012 Author Posted April 7, 2012 I'm almost about to give up on this. We had a big argument about it the other day, once again. I hate drama and this is just not me. She wants me to just 'put it aside for the sake of our relationship'. She keeps saying things like "If I saw how much something meant to you, even if I didn't like it, I'd try to work on it" or "I don't feel like you're my team-mate on this, I need you to help me figure this out". I'm just sick of seeing his face and hearing about him. She still has pictures of him and her hugging and kissing on her facebook (am I even 'allowed' to ask her to take those down?), they text pretty much every day, they see each other once a week, etc etc. She's said that she's been trying to accommodate me by not texting/seeing him a lot. I also told her that she can't go over to his place anymore, they can only hang out for like an hour at a time at a public place, but still, it's a bit too much for me. But it seems she doesn't understand. Maybe an age issue? With her just having turned 20, and me almost 24...? I don't know, but I'm almost about to give up on this and it really is a shame...
TaraMaiden Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 I'm almost about to give up on this. We had a big argument about it the other day, once again. I hate drama and this is just not me. She wants me to just 'put it aside for the sake of our relationship'. She keeps saying things like "If I saw how much something meant to you, even if I didn't like it, I'd try to work on it" or "I don't feel like you're my team-mate on this, I need you to help me figure this out". that's it, right there. Big Red Flag. You are her (team) mate, and you have helped her figure this out. She has to drop him because you are her new man, and mixing 2 relationships doesn't work. you have made everything abundantly clear, so there's nothing to 'figure out'. what she actually means by this is: "I need you to figure out that i am not willing at all, to do what you want. When i say 'i need you to help me figure this out' what i actually mean is, i need you to come round to my way of thinking, agree with me, and let me carry on doing what i want." You have to leave, right now. end it. no relationship, this early on, should carry so much drama, excess baggage or be such hard work. it's - never - going - to - get - any - better. in fact, quite the opposite. just bow out, go NC and drop this like a hot brick. It may well be a shame, but your nerves are getting frayed and it's all you can focus on. this isn't a relationship. It's a ménage a trois mess. and who needs it?
Author sibernox Posted April 7, 2012 Author Posted April 7, 2012 ^ thanks a lot for all your replies, really appreciate it. It's just so frustrating because she's the first girl I've liked in a LONG LONG time but hey, if she's not budging, I don't know what else to do. She also always asks why I'm only acting this way now. Because before the whole drama of him saying he wanted to 'rip my head off' and him showing up at my house, I was actually 'cool' with the guy. I was fine with them hanging out and it had never even crossed my mind to feel uncomfortable about their 'friendship', but now after all this, I do feel extremely uncomfortable with it. and she always asks me "what changed?". it's so puzzling.
TaraMaiden Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 some guy wanting to rip your head off is enough to make anyone unsettled... but her sheer obstinacy, and the fact that things seem to have become more (not less) intense between them, would be extremely discouraging. she wants the best of both worlds, and there's absolutely no reason on this earth why you should be ok with that.
CC12 Posted April 7, 2012 Posted April 7, 2012 She also always asks why I'm only acting this way now. Because before the whole drama of him saying he wanted to 'rip my head off' and him showing up at my house, I was actually 'cool' with the guy. I was fine with them hanging out and it had never even crossed my mind to feel uncomfortable about their 'friendship', but now after all this, I do feel extremely uncomfortable with it. and she always asks me "what changed?". it's so puzzling. "What changed" is that someone threatened to do you physical harm and she made excuses for it and basically took his side. I'm sure that wasn't a serious threat, but that is absolutely not just a friend being protective of another friend. You do not let your "friends" talk that way about your boyfriend. And you don't maintain a close relationship with a "friend" who so clearly has something against your boyfriend. It's completely unacceptable. I'm not sure why this is hard for her to grasp. Also, I'm sorry, but I'm not sure why you're having a hard time grasping that she's chosen him over you several times now. He is more important to her. She has proven this repeatedly. You've stuck around long enough waiting to see if she'll change and she hasn't. So what are you going to do about it?
Author sibernox Posted April 7, 2012 Author Posted April 7, 2012 The only reason I'm even still with her is because she has listened to me in the sense that she doesn't go to his house anymore, she has limited contact, etc etc. She's quit smoking because I urged her to, and she genuinely seems like a nice girl. But I don't know, maybe I'm being stupid (which I probably am), but I do see that she just sincerely wants me to get along with him. And I try to tell myself that she's chosen him over me, but then she tells me things like "you're the only I want, I'm in YOUR bed every night, I'm on YOUR side, he had me and lost me, I'm yours now etc etc". So sometimes I don't know what to think. There comes a point when I have to walk away though...I'm just having a hard time with it. I guess I should just tell her "choose once and for all?". But then at that point she'll ask me to tell her how long she should do the no-contact thing with him. What do I say to that?
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