ThaWholigan Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 I'm subscribed to a dating coach from US called Scot McKay. I am not aware too much of his products (he features on a Carlos Xuma program I have), but I love reading his daily newsletters in my email every evening. He always has interesting stuff today but this email today was particularly interesting. Give it a read and I will post my comments..... ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------ [FONT=Arial]THE SECRET TO SEXUAL FULFILLMENT (AND IT'S SIMPLE) Being in the business I'm in, and being a man, I'm often asked by guys how to get women to have sex with them. Ironically enough, my answer typically involves some iteration of, "Well, genius, stop trying so hard to get them to have sex with you." Be that as it may, as many of us have encountered time and again in life one of the most oft-repeated blunders in the business world is "if something isn't working, do twice as much of it". Such a ham fisted redoubling of efforts tends to turn up from time to time in the dating world also, doesn't it? Particularly, it seems, this happens when guys aren't getting women to agree to all of the sex they want as early and as often as they had hoped. Yeah, well. "Hope" is not a strategy. Sure, male or female, we are all sexual creatures. But there is SO MUCH more depth to us all. Perhaps ironically, that's exactly the key to being more sexually fulfilled. And therein lies today's point. Make sure you are ready for this one, too. It's something you've never heard before (and I major in that sort of thing, if you're just getting acquainted with this newsletter). Here it is: Men who prioritize raw sexual fulfillment over actually enjoying a woman's company in a more holistic sense are almost universally the LEAST sexually fulfilled people I know of. Is this attributable to the old theory that "the more you chase something the more elusive it becomes"? Maybe in part, but there's much more to it. Okay, then. Is it because most women are wise to such motives and don't give in? Unfortunately, that's not it either. Plenty of women these days are more than okay with casual sex. Well, what IS IT already? The answer lies in the very telling likelihood that the guy who views women as walking life support systems for their vaginas is the VERY SAME ONE who constantly kvetches about how all [women] are "dead lays" with absolutely zero sexual skill, drive or creativity. Bad sex = Low fulfillment But here's the thing. I submit that maybe the problem ISN'T the women. Come on now, you can't really believe that all women are passive, asexual and/or even frigid, can you? Well, maybe if that helps you sleep at night. But really, why should a woman's full sexual potential be squandered on a guy who, when it comes down to it, is USING her? Make no mistake. It won't be. Show me a guy who has a healthy respect for women, and furthermore actually ENJOYS women...and I'll show you a guy who's partner is so fired up in the bedroom (and the kitchen, and the closet, and the shower) that the smoke detectors had better be disconnected. Most women know all too well that one man's "dead lay" ("D/L") is another man's "Siren/Vixen" ("S/V"). And men who focus on "getting laid" at the expense of everything else a woman potentially has to offer him don't experience "S/V"s so much. In fact, some have seen such a steady pattern of "D/L"s that they refuse to believe "S/V"s even exist outside of porn. Go and try to figure THAT out. And when you do, deserve what you want. Be Good, Scot McKay ===== [/FONT] ------------------------------- Now, I'm no expert on sexual matters as many on here know, but reading some of the threads on here I wondered whether this applied to anyone on here? I'm interested to see the replies......
joystickd Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Its the right guy to bring out the sexual freak in a woman. That email is 100% accurate 1
Author ThaWholigan Posted March 16, 2012 Author Posted March 16, 2012 Its the right guy to bring out the sexual freak in a woman. That email is 100% accurate IT was certainly good food for thought!
sid3 Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 I don't know what all the fuss is about. Maybe what this guy had to say is in fact a well guarded secret among a lot of men. IDK. Could be sometimes it takes a certain amount of life experiences.
fishtaco Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 One of those articles that makes sense but doesn't do anything to help anyone. Kind of like, you need good chemistry between the players on your team in order for your team to perform well. Well... no sh*t. But how do you get good chemistry between the players on your team? I see "don't try so hard", which is true. Desperation drives people away, men or women. Then I see "don't be a jerk", which is kind of true, but there are men that can make that work. Other than that, I don't see anything else. For being a "professional" piece of dating advice, I'm not impressed. It's probably just marketing bait to get you to buy more product to "discover" the secret to make women hot for you. 2
Author ThaWholigan Posted March 16, 2012 Author Posted March 16, 2012 One of those articles that makes sense but doesn't do anything to help anyone. Kind of like, you need good chemistry between the players on your team in order for your team to perform well. Well... no sh*t. But how do you get good chemistry between the players on your team? I see "don't try so hard", which is true. Desperation drives people away, men or women. Then I see "don't be a jerk", which is kind of true, but there are men that can make that work. Other than that, I don't see anything else. For being a "professional" piece of dating advice, I'm not impressed. It's probably just marketing bait to get you to buy more product to "discover" the secret to make women hot for you. Well, I'm looking at some of his products and he doesn't do any of those "secret" stuff really. He isn't as well known, but he's been pretty outspoken about some of the PUA material in his emails. I have no plans to buy his products but I do enjoy his emails as they do have nuggets of truth in them. It's a bit like Rich Dad Poor Dad. When you analyze it, it's perhaps not the most extensive book on how to be rich, but it makes perfect sense and is a great book to start off with.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 Its the right guy to bring out the sexual freak in a woman. That email is 100% accurate I think the article had less to do with bring the "sexual freak" out in a woman and was more about treating women like people first. Enjoying women for who they are. And not turning them into your sex doll. By your comment, it's like all you picked up on was exactly what he is trying to say not to do. At least that's how I read both your comments and his email. Wholigan, his email is completely spot on. A woman can tell a difference between a man that truly appreciates women and spends time getting to know more then just her vagina, vs men that have made it their mission just to get laid. This the difference between a woman that also wants to get to know a guy, vs a woman that just goes out with guys for free dinners. Here is an interesting article you might like that kind of goes with your email: When It Comes To Sex, Women Know Best
GoodOnPaper Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 I think the article had less to do with bring the "sexual freak" out in a woman and was more about treating women like people first. Enjoying women for who they are. This sounds crazy to ask . . . but how do you do that and still generate some attraction? You're not supposed to be out there just for the sex, yet I always ended up in the friendzone when getting to know women that I wanted to date -- presumably because I wasn't forward enough and was perceived as "nice" or "boring".
sid3 Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 I think the article had less to do with bring the "sexual freak" out in a woman and was more about treating women like people first. Enjoying women for who they are. And not turning them into your sex doll. By your comment, it's like all you picked up on was exactly what he is trying to say not to do. At least that's how I read both your comments and his email. Wholigan, his email is completely spot on. A woman can tell a difference between a man that truly appreciates women and spends time getting to know more then just her vagina, vs men that have made it their mission just to get laid. This the difference between a woman that also wants to get to know a guy, vs a woman that just goes out with guys for free dinners. Here is an interesting article you might like that kind of goes with your email: When It Comes To Sex, Women Know Best Yep, its treated like one of life's greatest riddles. Stop chasing the mythical vagina, it doesn't exist. Those with the most "game" have no game at all.
Author ThaWholigan Posted March 17, 2012 Author Posted March 17, 2012 I think the article had less to do with bring the "sexual freak" out in a woman and was more about treating women like people first. Enjoying women for who they are. And not turning them into your sex doll. By your comment, it's like all you picked up on was exactly what he is trying to say not to do. At least that's how I read both your comments and his email. Wholigan, his email is completely spot on. A woman can tell a difference between a man that truly appreciates women and spends time getting to know more then just her vagina, vs men that have made it their mission just to get laid. This the difference between a woman that also wants to get to know a guy, vs a woman that just goes out with guys for free dinners. Here is an interesting article you might like that kind of goes with your email: When It Comes To Sex, Women Know Best Yeah, I have literature that says a lot of the stuff in that article. Particularly that while men are turned on very quickly, with women it is slower and therefore has to be paced well. Either way, it is more that men focus on the woman rather than on the desired "result". And actually figure out how to do that properly, because they might think they are doing that but perhaps aren't.
somedude81 Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 I've treated ever girl I have liked in the past 5 years as people first, enjoyed their company, respected them. And look where it got me......................
Author ThaWholigan Posted March 17, 2012 Author Posted March 17, 2012 I've treated ever girl I have liked in the past 5 years as people first, enjoyed their company, respected them. And look where it got me...................... Well, you have to cover all bases and strike a balance, as I have figured out in the last 6 months: 1) Communicating sexual interest appropriately. There are ways to signal this in a way that can engage a girl in the conversation. I've stumbled on it accidentally but I have never really nailed it down but I try to pick my moments. 2) Being bold with my words. Witty conversations, not trying to be funny all the time, alternating between light conversation and deep connection. Depends on the girl though, but I find that if I am completely present in the conversation, it takes on a natural progression. 3) Charisma. Coming across as a warm individual definitely helps. I love people and I do like to be around them, and whenever I am completely present in the room instead of focusing on my flaws or what to say or what I'm doing wrong, I am able to communicate that warmth, character and presence, and have people happy to talk. I have done a lot of this stuff subconsciously, but it all came from being confident at the time (usually after a music show or something). I've had girls be interested without me even noticing until like weeks later . 4) Not being afraid to walk away from an interaction is key. There's nothing wrong with being engaged in the conversation, but if it takes a turn that you don't like or she starts to get disinterested, you can break the interaction first. There's more really, but there are lots of literature out there to help you. Treating women like people is a given. But there are many dynamics to socializing that we have to pick up on with regards to women (and men too).
somedude81 Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 While I agree with everything you said, none of that is actually mentioned in the email you posted.
Author ThaWholigan Posted March 17, 2012 Author Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) While I agree with everything you said, none of that is actually mentioned in the email you posted. That particular email I don't think was particularly written for complete virgins or guys with no relationship experience at all......although he has written one. For complete virgins, PUA stuff is better. I have some really good reads that can help really, but the best ones all advocate having a social circle, being a better man and having ambitions, goals and hobbies. Passions. I'll post the email he made for virgins. [FONT=Arial]READER QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS[/FONT] [FONT=Arial] Dear Mr. McKay, I'm pretty old (38) and still a virgin. This is for a number of reasons. (Part of it is my past religious upbringing, which I have since rejected a while ago.) What do you recommend in regard to what to tell a woman about this, when one is pretty old and still a virgin? Should one openly volunteer to tell her that one is still a virgin? Do you recommend lying and saying that one is not? Should one just not bring up the topic? What if she brings it up and explicitly asks you? In particular, if one is looking to meet women through online dating, should one openly state that one is still virgin in one's first e-mail to a prospect (or even in one's profile summary)? I'd like to know about the most effective approach. However, I think that lying to get something you want from another person will backfire in the long run. Thanks in advance for any information you can provide. Sincerely, Rashid (Dubai, UAE) ===== [/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Hey, Rashid.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial] First, PLEASE call me Scot. "Mr. McKay" is way too formal. This is a question I get quite a bit, and my answer always surprises guys. Let's do some 'chick whispering' here. Men tend to be pretty hard on their peers who haven't been with a woman by a certain age. This is precisely what causes guilt and shame for guys who remain virgins into adulthood, I think. But women are wired very differently. They typically aren't so quick judge a man by his sexual experience or lack thereof. For many, many women out there finding out you are a virgin would be actually sort of exciting--especially if it's by choice. Let me elaborate upon that last statement in two different ways. First, it's my opinion that being a virgin is almost ALWAYS 'by choice'. You didn't mention anything about why you've remained a virgin even after your world view changed, but my guess is that you could have had sex if you really, really felt it was the thing to do. Hell, you could have hired a prostitute. But you DIDN'T. Even guys with severe social skill or hygiene issues can learn how to relate to people, take a shower and brush their teeth. Women instinctively KNOW this. And as such, they can more readily respect the fact that you haven't had sex than your buddies can. For them, you may be a CHALLENGE (and that is usually a VERY GOOD thing). Plus, she'll look across the table from you and see a man who is 100% free of STDs and decidedly NOT a "man whore". That's something she'll feel comfortable in not having to worry about. And make no mistake--the higher the quality of woman you are sitting across said table from, the MORE LIKELY what I'm telling you is going to play out according to plan. Kind of casts a new light on the subject doesn't it? For the second piece of the "big picture", let me ask you a question regarding the very premise of what worries you. You might want to sit down for this one, because it's likely to rock your world a bit. Ready? If in a woman's eyes 'zero' is an unacceptable number of sex partners for you to have had thus far, then what IS "acceptable"? If the number could potentially be perceived as a large one, you'd likely be equally if not more reticent to share that info with a woman than you would that you're a virgin....right? So how many women SHOULD you have slept with by now in order to get all the women to love you? Two? Five? No more than, say...seven? Give me a shout if you can agree that's a preposterous concept to even consider. What I'd love to encourage you to do is BE PROUD that you've remained a virgin and KILL THE SHAME. Shame SUCKS. But identifying limiting beliefs and eliminating the sources of shame in your life ROCKS. I realize this isn't going to happen instantly. There's a habit of feeling sorry for yourself that has to be re-framed. But if you take what I'm telling you seriously to heart, I bet you can revolutionize your outlook on all of this a lot faster than you think. And by the way, you owe no woman ANY personal information of ANY sort in your very first e-mail to her (let alone in the profile narrative). In fact, even the FIRST DATE should be devoted to simply measuring whether you and a woman are getting along and having fun together. I really don't think you need to "force the issue" ever. If it comes up naturally in the course of conversation after you and she have known each other for a bit, then so be it. Keep your head up and speak about it confidently. Don't overdo it, or you'll look insincere. But by no means hang your head sheepishly as if ashamed. One caveat here is that the woman may very well not want to pursue anything further with you...not because of YOU but because of HER. Your virginity may be very, VERY intimidating to a woman who is perhaps ashamed of her own sexual experience. Have you ever considered that possibility? Such is what begins to occur to us when we are able to get out of our own heads for once. I'm reminded of a guy I know who struggled with the same issue that you are currently. When he summoned the courage to proclaim his virginity to the woman he had been seeing for a few dates, he was pleasantly surprised to find out SHE was one also. From then on this amazingly sharp woman was virtually addicted to him. And that's a true story--and one that I've seen replicated elsewhere, no less. Deserve what you want, man. Captivate a great woman with your character. Be Good, Scot McKay ===== [/FONT] Edited March 17, 2012 by ThaWholigan
Nightsky Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 Only part of the article that matters went something like this. "Guys ask me how to get a women to have sex. I get annoyed and tell them you just get a woman to have sex." Just do it and stop looking for scripts. It's all about your enjoyment not some quantity or race to sex.
joystickd Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 I think the article had less to do with bring the "sexual freak" out in a woman and was more about treating women like people first. Enjoying women for who they are. And not turning them into your sex doll. By your comment, it's like all you picked up on was exactly what he is trying to say not to do. At least that's how I read both your comments and his email. Wholigan, his email is completely spot on. A woman can tell a difference between a man that truly appreciates women and spends time getting to know more then just her vagina, vs men that have made it their mission just to get laid. This the difference between a woman that also wants to get to know a guy, vs a woman that just goes out with guys for free dinners. Here is an interesting article you might like that kind of goes with your email: When It Comes To Sex, Women Know Best Lol you really don't get what that saying means and why I even referenced it. You assumption about it was way off base lol. Notice that I said the right man not anybody. I suggest you reread the email the figure out really why I said that. Your preoccupations with men looking at porn and only wanting sex are so destructive to you. Like I said before you sound worse than the "bitter" guys people talk about on here and with that being said let's get back to the regularly scheduled thread.
Author ThaWholigan Posted March 17, 2012 Author Posted March 17, 2012 Only part of the article that matters went something like this. "Guys ask me how to get a women to have sex. I get annoyed and tell them you just get a woman to have sex." Just do it and stop looking for scripts. It's all about your enjoyment not some quantity or race to sex. Agree with this wholeheartedly. There's nothing wrong with getting information to help you, some people actually do require it. But it should be in order to help you grow into yourself better and develop your character, rather than assuming an artificial one.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 This sounds crazy to ask . . . but how do you do that and still generate some attraction? You're not supposed to be out there just for the sex, yet I always ended up in the friendzone when getting to know women that I wanted to date -- presumably because I wasn't forward enough and was perceived as "nice" or "boring". I don't think that's crazy to ask at all GoodOnPaper. I think this is actually what a lot of men struggle with. And some guys go too far with one extreme, being overly nice and other guys go to the other extreme, just being complete douchebags. Granted, as a woman, I do want a little excitment and passion and playfullness. But I also what a man that really wants to get to know me. So here is the key that a lot of guys miss. Women don't want "nice guys". And they don't want "bad boys". What women want are "good men". Nice guys are the guys that are afraid to displease you so they cater to you. They are so worried about the woman liking them, they don't stop to think if they like the woman. (For the record, I have been gulity of this myself and I know it turns men off too.) Bad boys DO know how to flirt and bring excitment. And that attitude tricks a lot of girls into thinking that she is "special" and that he really is a good guy. But the Bad boy is like the fox in sheeps clothing. It's just a mirage. It's not reality. The reality comes only after the girl falls for it. Then once she sees the reality she is left feeling crappy about it all because while it was fun at first, she fell for it! Now, for the "good man" part. This is really what women want most of us. They want a man that knows what he wants. A man that conducts his life with integrity. A man that is respectful, but doesn't sell his own self respect to pander to a woman. He has some mystery. He doesn't base his success or failure on how he does with her. He does what he does because of his own code of ethics. AND he thinks about her too. It's not easy to do. Which is why so many guys struggle with it. It requires really getting to know yourself better and getting to know what you want from a relationship on a level that a lot of guys probably don't think about. It also requires thinking of women differently too. But if you do the work, I think you will like the man you are and women will also be drawn to that man. And just from my own experience. I like when a man lets me know he is interested in me. But if starts off dating me and laying on the romance over thick from the very beginning,we have no where to esculate to. When a man brings me flowers on the first date, it's too much. When a man brings me flowers after we've been dating for a month, it's special. When a man takes me out to dinner in the first few weeks we know each other, it has the potential to be too much. First few dates should be picnics, and ice cream and mini gulf..light and fun things. And the relationships hsould naturally progress from there. YOu don't want to give a girl all you have as soon as you meet her. You want her to see a layer and be intrigued enough to peel the other layers away. And as you peal those layers down, you get more intimate, you reveal more of yourself and her interest in maintained. I know that doesn't help you 100% because it's still a hard line to find. But it's mainly about figuring what kind of man you are, having the confidence in that, and learning to enjoy women on a level that a lot of media doesn't exactly tell men is "cool" to enjoy women for.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 Yep, its treated like one of life's greatest riddles. Stop chasing the mythical vagina, it doesn't exist. Those with the most "game" have no game at all. I'm not sure what you mean by "mythical vagina" Sid. To me, that sounds like a put down toward women but correct me if I am wrong.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Yeah, I have literature that says a lot of the stuff in that article. Particularly that while men are turned on very quickly, with women it is slower and therefore has to be paced well. Either way, it is more that men focus on the woman rather than on the desired "result". And actually figure out how to do that properly, because they might think they are doing that but perhaps aren't. Exactly. And I think if men do that, they will find themselves having some fun even if they are eager to get to the finish line. The journey is most of the fun. Since men are more goal orientated, that might be hard for them to objectively see. They are concerned about finishing the goal. I never heard of this relationship guy but I like him Wholigan. I am going to check out his website. Edited March 17, 2012 by Disenchantedly Yours
sid3 Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 I'm not sure what you mean by "mythical vagina" Sid. To me, that sounds like a put down toward women but correct me if I am wrong. No that wasn't intended to be a put down at all. And you're right, the journey is the most fun. I think a lot of men and womem are often too worried about getting to the destination to enjoy the ride. 1
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