Miko Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 This isn't a specific situation that I'm in right now but something I've had some experience with and have seen it happen to others. Have you noticed that very often when a woman in a relationship goes to see a therapist, for whatever reason, that the therapist often (rightly or wrongly) somehow convinces them that their relationship is bad for them and they end up breaking up or divorcing soon thereafter? I've heard of multiple women divorcing or almost divorcing their husbands while in therapy only to be really upset and regret the decision later. I had a similar experience with one of my girlfriends a while back which prompted me to wonder. What's up with this?
gaius Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Most women are very socially sensitive, they want to be able to squawk to all their friends about how much effort they put into saving the relationship. So they go through the motions of going to therapy when in reality they just want to get the hell away from their partners. They end up just using the therapist and the therapy for their own ends, it isn't really the doctors fault. He provides a convenient fall guy too if down the road they realize the grass wasn't really greener.
Author Miko Posted March 16, 2012 Author Posted March 16, 2012 Let's assume that the relationship had nothing to do with going to a therapist in the first place. More like 'Real' problems like depression or PTSD or something like that. I'm almost thinking it's a miscommunication and a way of dodging the real issues because therapists are pretty easy to fool in my experience. Maybe they don't want to face the real problem or the idea that they're the one responsible for their own problems, or at least the perpetuation of those problems. It seems like such hard/scary work to look inside yourself and it's easier to pawn it off on someone else. If you told all that to a friend, they might not tell you to dump the relationship but a therapist doesn't know the real situation and can only assume that what you're bitching about is the problem. Combine that with the fact that the therapist doesn't know the S.O. one bit so they're not a real person, just an idea, and an idea that the 'patient' surely has plenty to complain about. Who doesn't in any relationship? 1
setsenia Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 I had the opposite issue. When my husband and I were dating, his therapist told him that I was manipulative and that he should break up with me. In reality, she had never met me once and I think it's fair you at least meet the person before making those kind of accusations. In reality, I had a lot of emotional and physical abuse going on at home which made our relationship difficult. I was only 16 at the time. Needless to say, when his therapist said that, he felt too uncomfortable to continue seeing her. That and he didn't care for her demeanor in the first place, which made it easy for him to find another therapist.
Diamonds&Rust Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 If a woman decides that she doesn't want to be in a relationship during the course of psychotherapy, I don't think that's really an example of a therapist screwing up a relationship. Relationships aren't indefinite and people change.
Author Miko Posted March 16, 2012 Author Posted March 16, 2012 If a woman decides that she doesn't want to be in a relationship during the course of psychotherapy, I don't think that's really an example of a therapist screwing up a relationship. Relationships aren't indefinite and people change. Not saying there aren't legit reasons to get out of a relationship but I'm talking about fairly decent ones. I've seen plenty of women do it within weeks of starting therapy and regret it later, even going so far as divorcing their husbands on a whim basically. Something just doesn't add up here, it's almost like the therapists standard prescription is to throw out everything you care about and start over. They say "you need to take care of you," which is true, but they actually communicate "screw everything, just talk to me, forget the rest of your life and you'll feel better." Then, if you're lucky, your husband/bf/friends MIGHT take you back later after you're all squared away, even though you just flipped and ran for the hills for no reason.
udolipixie Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 I may be cynical but I think if you had to do therapy the relationship was already on the verge. I've also heard of multiple gals not divorcing their husbands with/without going to therapy only to build up resentment, bitterness, and even hatred. I think it's social conditioning as gals tend to be far more interested in pleasing others at their expense so divorce if therapy says it's okay & no divorce as society tends to say it isn't okay. Sometimes gals fearing that they would look bad as gals are supposed to be monogamous ever devotees to the end tend to put on a show they know will fail letting them have a nice exit. With most of the gals I know if they say they're going to relationship therapy it means she doesn't have the courage to break up with him and be the not so nice gal. for whatever reason, that the therapist often (rightly or wrongly) somehow convinces them that their relationship is bad for them and they end up breaking up or divorcing soon thereafter? I'm pausing at this if the relationship is bad for them and they end up breaking up/divorcing how did the therapist screw up the relationship. It was already screwed up.
Black Jack Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 This isn't a specific situation that I'm in right now but something I've had some experience with and have seen it happen to others. Have you noticed that very often when a woman in a relationship goes to see a therapist, for whatever reason, that the therapist often (rightly or wrongly) somehow convinces them that their relationship is bad for them and they end up breaking up or divorcing soon thereafter? I've heard of multiple women divorcing or almost divorcing their husbands while in therapy only to be really upset and regret the decision later. I had a similar experience with one of my girlfriends a while back which prompted me to wonder. What's up with this? Therapy is practically not a real profession. It's just a license to voice your opinion on a couples' relationship, and it's highly subjective. Most women in the "counseling" industry are feminists, so when a distraught woman comes to them about their relationship, they'll do their best to stick up for them, even when they've never met the boyfriend/husband and checked his side of the story. 2
Imajerk17 Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Well, if the woman is going to therapy for the relationship--or even if she STARTS going FOR HERSELF DURING the relationship, that's already not a very good sign about the health of the relationship... If she were so happy, then why did she start going in the first place?
Author Miko Posted March 16, 2012 Author Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) I may be cynical but I think if you had to do therapy the relationship was already on the verge. I've also heard of multiple gals not divorcing their husbands with/without going to therapy only to build up resentment, bitterness, and even hatred. I think it's social conditioning as gals tend to be far more interested in pleasing others at their expense so divorce if therapy says it's okay & no divorce as society tends to say it isn't okay. Sometimes gals fearing that they would look bad as gals are supposed to be monogamous ever devotees to the end tend to put on a show they know will fail letting them have a nice exit. With most of the gals I know if they say they're going to relationship therapy it means she doesn't have the courage to break up with him and be the not so nice gal. I'm pausing at this if the relationship is bad for them and they end up breaking up/divorcing how did the therapist screw up the relationship. It was already screwed up. I'm don't even mean "relationship therapy", just "I'm generally a crazy girl" therapy lol. In my case my gf was just nuts and had way bigger issues. She was crazy mad in love with me and the worst thing I ever did to her was dump her for about 8 hours because she was acting severely out of line at the moment. Funny thing is she didn't choose to go to therapy, she got arrested for being drunk and disorderly so they made her. Hell, I was at times the only thing holding her together. Come to think of it, I seem to find a LOT of these girls lol...guess I'm just into "psycho." Sure is more interesting that way. Edited March 16, 2012 by Miko
udolipixie Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Not saying there aren't legit reasons to get out of a relationship but I'm talking about fairly decent ones. Perhaps you perceived the relationships to be fairly decent. If it was fairly decent why the need for therapy? Therapy is usually a sign that the relationship has issues that need professional help or that one or both of the people in the relationship have issues that need professional help. Then, if you're lucky, your husband/bf/friends MIGHT take you back later after you're all squared away, even though you just flipped and ran for the hills for no reason. No reason according to you. Perhaps the reason they ran to the hills was the same or similar reason they went to therapy. How well did you know these many couples you've witness? Did you know the reason they went to therapy, how they operated, their compatibility, their happiness level, what was discussed in their sessions?
Author Miko Posted March 16, 2012 Author Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Not talking about therapy that was initiated due to relationship reasons. More like prior, longterm issues like depression/anxiety/alc/drugs/ptsd and the like. Either way, if they end up getting back together that leads me to believe that there was NO reason to break up in the first place. Only reason I didn't get back w my gf was she wasn't taking her situation seriously or doing what she needed to do so I was just done. And all that doesn't really say anything about our relationship, she'll have the same problem with anyone until she works hard on her own problems. Edited March 16, 2012 by Miko
udolipixie Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 I'm don't even mean "relationship therapy", just "I'm generally a crazy girl" therapy lol. In my case my gf was just nuts and had way bigger issues. She was crazy mad in love with me and the worst thing I ever did to her was dump her for about 8 hours because she was acting severely out of line at the moment. Funny thing is she didn't choose to go to therapy, she got arrested for being drunk and disorderly so they made her. Hell, I was at times the only thing holding her together. Then it's probably best suited she handle own issues before continuing a relationship while unstable. Especially if you feel you were the only thing holding her together kind of reeks of co-dependency on her part. To me a partner should be a part of your sanity/health/happiness not the controller of your sanity, health, and happiness. Come to think of it, I seem to find a LOT of these girls lol...guess I'm just into "psycho." Sure is more interesting that way. You likely don't just find these gals you're probably attracted to them or keep attracting to them. If it was just finding you'd toss them back when found however it seems that you stay. 1
KathyM Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 The job of a therapist is supposed to be to help people to find answers themselves to their own dilemas, and help people clarify for themselves what they want in life and where they want to go. They encourage people to find the answers for themselves. If a person leaves a relationship after seeing a therapist, that may only mean that they were able to clarify their own thinking about what they wanted, and then went through with action based on that. It doesn't mean the therapist told them to leave. With that said, I do think there are too many marriage therapists out there that focus on the negative in a relationship and trying to work out the negative aspects of the relationship, rather than focusing on building back the positive, and when a relationship is already on shaky ground, that can be the last straw that sends a spouse on route to a divorce, unfortunately. Building back the positives should come first until the relationship is strong enough to delve into the negative aspects that brought them to therapy. 2
Author Miko Posted March 16, 2012 Author Posted March 16, 2012 You likely don't just find these gals you're probably attracted to them or keep attracting to them. If it was just finding you'd toss them back when found however it seems that you stay. Can't say you're wrong about that. I know plenty of what I would call "normal" women and I like them, but the idea of a cookie cutter relationship I see everyone else striving for makes me wanna puke.
zengirl Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 It doesn't seem you mean MC or couples' therapy, but rather simply individual therapy. I think the reason you'll often see someone break up with their partner as they progress in therapy is similar to the reason you'll often see people make other life changes during that stage. The person is (hopefully) growing and come to understand themselves, their actions, and their choices, and making actions towards the person they may want to become. Perhaps they realized their relationship (not their partner!) was developed from an unhealthy place and is not what they really want in life. Generally, when we are depressed, there is a reason, and that reason can also lead us to stay in bad places or make bad choices. This does not mean the partner was bad, but perhaps not truly a good fit, and the patient is realizing this---hopefully on their own. No ethical therapist would suggest or try to sabotage a relationship unless perhaps there was abuse going on within it.
KathyM Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Most likely, the women figured out, through therapy, what they wanted in life, and made decisions based on what they discovered during therapy. Not likely the therapist told them to leave. Therapists help people to figure out for themselves what choices they want to make. Some people may live to regret later on the choices they make to leave a partner, just like they sometimes regret leaving if they've come to that decision without therapy.
Anela Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Funny, I was just thinking this morning, that I once told my sister that we needed to have therapy together. She has never gone for it, and at the moment, we are at odds in a very bad way.
setsenia Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Yeah, a good therapist can not and will not tell you what to do. They can give you options and what might be possible outcomes. But, IMO don't tell you what your solution is. You have to decide that for yourself. My therapist is great that way. She even told me once that she cannot tell people what to do directly. I think there will always bee good and bad counselors.
KathyM Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Funny, I was just thinking this morning, that I once told my sister that we needed to have therapy together. She has never gone for it, and at the moment, we are at odds in a very bad way. You may want to go to therapy yourself and may be able to work on the relationship with your sister yourself, even if she does not want to go to therapy. It only takes one person in a diad to change the relationship. When one changes, the other often ends up changing as well. The therapist may be helpful in teaching you communication strategies to use with your sister, and ways to approach her to improve communication and improve the relationship. It might be worth a try.
Jane2011 Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) I've never been to a therapist, but one of my friends had a regular one while she was in the beginning stages of a relationship. Her therapist did just the opposite, encouraged her to be patient and keep forging onward in the relationship she was in (my friend had doubts about the guy), using compromise and communication. She's been with him now for a year and four months and things are going swimmingly. But if she hadn't listened to her therapist, she might have dumped the guy. My friend had doubts about being committed to him. She was kind of a commitmentphobe in general, and said the idea of being with just that guy felt confining, like she wouldn't be able to explore relationships with other men, or ever sleep with another man again, etc. My friend told me that her therapist loved starting advice sentences with the word "Consider..." The therapist kept telling her, "Consider....that you can still have deep friendships with other men." I joked with her to tell the therapist, "Consider...that I want to sleep with them, too..." Edited March 16, 2012 by Jane2011 1
udolipixie Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Either way, if they end up getting back together that leads me to believe that there was NO reason to break up in the first place. That's quite a logic leap. Plenty of abused partners break up with their partner and end up back together still being abused. Getting back together doesn't mean that there was no issue as it can also mean that the issue was never resolved. People tend to return to familiarity and there's the whole "I invested so much" mindset.
Diamonds&Rust Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 There seems to be a lot of bitterness about therapists on this thread. I think KathyM makes some important points about therapy, specifically that its purpose is not to push a therapist's agenda on them. Not saying there aren't legit reasons to get out of a relationship but I'm talking about fairly decent ones. I've seen plenty of women do it within weeks of starting therapy and regret it later, even going so far as divorcing their husbands on a whim basically. I don't know any therapists who advise patients to make important life decisions on a whim. Are you sure you have the full story? Something just doesn't add up here, it's almost like the therapists standard prescription is to throw out everything you care about and start over. They say "you need to take care of you," which is true, but they actually communicate "screw everything, just talk to me, forget the rest of your life and you'll feel better." I don't think you're describing therapy very well. Have you ever seen a therapist? Not everyone who sees a therapist identifies as crazy, and many describe it as positive. An ethical therapist is not training their clients to be dependent on them, and may even terminate a relationship against the patient's will if they feel like that's what's going on. Therapy is practically not a real profession. It's just a license to voice your opinion on a couples' relationship, and it's highly subjective. You seem to not know much about how therapists are trained. Are you thinking of life coaches? Most women in the "counseling" industry are feminists, so when a distraught woman comes to them about their relationship, they'll do their best to stick up for them, even when they've never met the boyfriend/husband and checked his side of the story. What does feminism mean to you? Hating men is not the same thing as feminism. Regardless, a therapist doesn't have an obligation to check and see what "the other side of the story is," because a therapist is not an investigator. Their obligation is to a patient. A trained therapist rarely gives advice, that's not really their job.
Black Jack Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 You seem to not know much about how therapists are trained. It seems you don't even know their training is not really training at all. Are you thinking of life coaches? Obviously not. What does feminism mean to you? Hating men is not the same thing as feminism. Yes it does. That's what the whole feminist movement is about. But lets stay on topic please. Regardless, a therapist doesn't have an obligation to check and see what "the other side of the story is," because a therapist is not an investigator. Sure they don't have an obligation to check and verify, but making baseless accusations about the other partner is hardly what I would call professional. Their obligation is to a patient. A trained therapist rarely gives advice, that's not really their job. The whole point of their job is to give their opinion. That's why this "profession" is subjective.
Sanman Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 It seems you don't even know their training is not really training at all. Obviously not. Yes it does. That's what the whole feminist movement is about. But lets stay on topic please. Sure they don't have an obligation to check and verify, but making baseless accusations about the other partner is hardly what I would call professional. The whole point of their job is to give their opinion. That's why this "profession" is subjective. How is their training not really training? Since when do they make accusations of give opinions. The point of therapy is to allow a person to explore what HE or SHE wants to do with his or her life. Therapy is not about living the way the therapist says. You really don't seem to a good grasp of what therapy is.
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