Why having male friends is better than having a relationship with them

[FrustratedStandards]

I haven't read the entire thread, so I might be repeating a few things here.

 

But I totally disagree. The biggest reason why I have so many male friends is because they wanted to date me, and I didn't. So I friend zoned them.

 

The moment I find a datable guy, we start the courtship. Otherwise, they simply become good friends.

 

Lots of guys brought up a good point in the other post you are referring to. Men don't want girl "friends", they want "girlfriends" and the only reason they are friends with you is because (most of the time) there is an underlying intention for a romantic relationship.

 

My guess is you like all your guy friends, but none of them are good enough for boyfriend material, which is why you don't bother with them.

[FrustratedStandards]

i dont do girls as friends unles theres sumthin in it for me.

 

Exactly. I think the OPs male friends simply treat her as well as they do in hopes they might change her mind. It's nice since she doesn't need to reciprocate in anyway, but I disagree with her condescending attitude towards men in general.

 

Not all cheat, lie, are crazy or jealous. But I do question to what extent sex plays a role in a mans wanting to get married. I've heard many times that men only marry to "solidify" the guarantee that a sex partner will always be available.

[Lonely Ronin]

I've heard many times that men only marry to "solidify" the guarantee that a sex partner will always be available.

 

I was engaged (was being the key word), and guaranteed sex was the last thing on my mind when i decided to propose. Maybe I'm just odd though.

[udolipixie]

If they are such great guys, why don't you date one of them?

 

Most of you treat your co-workers and friends better than you do your wives and girlfriends. It's like, you go home to 'plug-in' (pun intended) and that's about it. You cheat on them. Lie to them. Disrespect them with your thoughtless habits and expectations that they (women) will somehow erase all of your petty insecurities.

 

I think her point was men are better at being friends than romantic/sexual partners.

[udolipixie]

I thought about the 'friend' thread somemore... and woke up thinking...

 

why DO I have so many male friends? I have lots of female friends too. Very good ones. Ones I've had for over 30 years, some of them.

 

But the reason why I wonder about my male friends is because I am looking for a relationship... but find myself quickly retreating back to the safety and comfort of my friends/family.

 

I have to admit. My friendships provide *most* of my emotional needs. Sure, it would be wonderful to connect with a man both in a physical and emotional/trusting way. However, having worked around mostly men my entire life... and having many male friends... no offense guys... really.

 

Most of you treat your co-workers and friends better than you do your wives and girlfriends. It's like, you go home to 'plug-in' (pun intended) and that's about it. You cheat on them. Lie to them. Disrespect them with your thoughtless habits and expectations that they (women) will somehow erase all of your petty insecurities.

 

That is why I have male friends. Men who have legitimate female friends treat me better than men who don't have female friends and want to date me. I've found that I can be friends to them too, without the ridiculous power games that many men are plagued by and seem to be powerless to escape once they are interested in a woman romantically.

 

It's true. Most women don't have any problems finding someone to f*ck. We also don't need to settle for bad behavior... the cheating, lying, angry outbursts, insecurity about your earning potential, insecurity about our past relationships, insecurity about your dick size and potency that you play out by chasing after much younger women you have zero in common with, and derogatory thoughts/comments about our bodies that you don't share about your own. Basically, we have better things to do than spend all of our time stroking your egos so that you can feel like 'the man'.

 

Men who have legitimate female friends don't seem to be hung up on gender roles and power plays. They aren't out trying to 'prove' they are the man. They seem to have some intrinsic sense of their worth that transcends whatever body parts the person owns. Which translates to me as being a better human being overall. Those are the kind of people I prefer to spend time with.

So how's that working out for you?

[RedRobin]

Thanks, I'll certainly need it. There are only a few good markets out here.

 

You never know, maybe the grass will be greener, there's only one way to find out. It's definitely a bold move. I commend you for doing the research, but I don't know just how much I'd trust the actual Census numbers.

 

Ah, you read it before I edited I didn't want to start a mass migration the other direction.

 

Would kind of defeat the purpose... I'm juggling alot of balls right now (and not the kind I want! ha ha)

 

Maybe I'll scope out the other topics on LS so I can manage my issues separately. No sense mixing house/job woes with dating woes! Although, it all blends together, doesn't it?

[RedRobin]

A woman's manhating friends can be just as bad. My ex had friends who cheered her on when she cheated on me because they were convinced I was the cause of all her woes.

 

Many men I know who have been divorced tell the same story.

 

After my experience, I definately believe you.

 

When one of my girlfriends first got married years ago, she was having the early marriage pains most people do. The little squabbles that come with living together and putting a life together.

 

She came to bitch to me, and I told her "if you want advice on how to make a marriage work, don't ask me. I'm divorced. I can certainly tell you what things NOT to do. If that helps..."

 

Since then, she has tried to engage me once or twice in complaining about her husband... and if I thought there were any merit, I'd tell her to seek counseling. But everytime I go over there, he is absolutely charming. A dream husband, to be honest. And not with flattery or anything like that. He takes the kids and clears the way so she and I can have our 'girl' time. Everything else I've seen him do points to him being a super duper partner and team player. And I tell her that. I tell her to pull her head out of her butt and start appreciating her H.

 

Yea, ok. So I guess it is universal huh? People treat their SO's like crap? Familiarity breeds contempt and all that? It was never like that with my ex-H. My whole world revolved around him. Sadly.

 

He could have used a friend like me telling him to pull his head out of his butt instead of egging him on with his puny complaints.

[RedRobin]

But somehow, when you are just friends with a guy, he doesn't have any power over you at all, and it shows in his level of courtesy in subtle ways. It's just human nature to treat people more respectfully, the less power you have over them...

 

You know, there is alot of truth in that.

 

Except that alot of people have a hard time understanding we don't have power over anyone at anytime.

 

It is the ATTEMPT at gaining power or keeping it that destroys alot of romantic love... the fact that there isn't that desire (the power over/under) dynamic in friendships is exactly the reason those might be more healthy than alot of romantic relationships I see. Especially the ones based mostly on 'attraction'...

[RedRobin]

Just have guy friends and sex buddies. The rest will bring you heartache/disappointments.

 

You know, it has occurred to me.

 

Except that I've learned (or more like, observed) that people end up forming emotional attachments to jerks that way. It's not just women who end up getting attached to jerks through sex. Men do too.

[RedRobin]

that's some intense nice guy hate right there.

 

Call it constructive criticism.... There is a grain of truth in there... you know there is...

[RedRobin]

I haven't read the entire thread, so I might be repeating a few things here.

 

But I totally disagree. The biggest reason why I have so many male friends is because they wanted to date me, and I didn't. So I friend zoned them.

 

The moment I find a datable guy, we start the courtship. Otherwise, they simply become good friends.

 

Lots of guys brought up a good point in the other post you are referring to. Men don't want girl "friends", they want "girlfriends" and the only reason they are friends with you is because (most of the time) there is an underlying intention for a romantic relationship.

 

My guess is you like all your guy friends, but none of them are good enough for boyfriend material, which is why you don't bother with them.

 

I agree that what you are saying does happen alot. Perhaps even most of the time. I don't think that is the case with my guy friends.

 

The ones who have made a pass at me in the past but I stay friends with are totally age inappropriate. I'm having coffee with one of them this Friday, and we are going to bring this topic up... not only is he old enough to be my dad. He could be old enough to almost be my grandfather. Yet, at some point in our friendship he mistook my sadness about his retiring from our former employer to be some kind of romantic attraction. AND he's married!!!

 

That sh*t has to stop. Women need older male mentors who aren't trying to get in their pants.

 

Some of my frustration on my OP came from that. Men who don't GET that their role in life has changed. They aren't sexually available to much younger women. They just aren't. If they are damned lucky, she looks to them for mentoring and guidance. They cross the line to trying to jump her, then they are scary pervs.

 

I, for one, get it. I'm not out trying to 'do' men young enough to be my sons.. although I certainly could and I still get that kind of attention. And in the random case one is attracted to me, I do what mentors SHOULD do... guide them towards age appropriate relationships.

 

OK, off the soapbox...

[RedRobin]

So how's that working out for you?

 

It's helping me keep my sanity (having friends of both genders).

 

About dating... I think I have a better sense of what I'm NOT going to do than what I'm going to do.

 

I'm not doing the FWB, casual sex thing that seems to be so popular with people these days. I'm not doing the online thing anymore either.

 

I am working towards moving to an area with a more dynamic economy and diverse population... one where there are more people 'like me'... in values, outlook, etc.

 

So, am definately taking responsibility for my life and making some movement to change things...

[udolipixie]

It's helping me keep my sanity (having friends of both genders).

 

About dating... I think I have a better sense of what I'm NOT going to do than what I'm going to do.

 

I'm not doing the FWB, casual sex thing that seems to be so popular with people these days. I'm not doing the online thing anymore either.

 

I am working towards moving to an area with a more dynamic economy and diverse population... one where there are more people 'like me'... in values, outlook, etc.

 

So, am definately taking responsibility for my life and making some movement to change things...

Pretty good

[xxoo]

After my experience, I definately believe you.

 

When one of my girlfriends first got married years ago, she was having the early marriage pains most people do. The little squabbles that come with living together and putting a life together.

 

She came to bitch to me, and I told her "if you want advice on how to make a marriage work, don't ask me. I'm divorced. I can certainly tell you what things NOT to do. If that helps..."

 

Since then, she has tried to engage me once or twice in complaining about her husband... and if I thought there were any merit, I'd tell her to seek counseling. But everytime I go over there, he is absolutely charming. A dream husband, to be honest. And not with flattery or anything like that. He takes the kids and clears the way so she and I can have our 'girl' time. Everything else I've seen him do points to him being a super duper partner and team player. And I tell her that. I tell her to pull her head out of her butt and start appreciating her H.

 

I don't think it is good to complain about our SOs to our friends and family.

 

But I also think it can be important for people to talk through issues, so that they understand why they are upset and how to talk to their partner about it.

 

You see a friend's husband being a dream husband, but she lives with him and sees other sides. I guess what I am saying is, it isn't always as simple as appreciate or don't appreciate. She can appreciate him, and still grow resentful over issues that never get addressed properly. She can adore him, and still struggle to accept his faults. That acceptance usually comes after many years of marriage, if the marriage lasts that long

 

Yea, ok. So I guess it is universal huh? People treat their SO's like crap? Familiarity breeds contempt and all that? It was never like that with my ex-H. My whole world revolved around him. Sadly.

 

He could have used a friend like me telling him to pull his head out of his butt instead of egging him on with his puny complaints.

 

Not universal, but certainly common among both genders.

[cleakstar]

Sometimes is good to make just friends, as they say; "good friends will always be there for you when you need them". At the same time it depends on timing and what you want.

 

 

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[BeyondtheClouds]

****Most of you treat your co-workers and friends better than you do your wives and girlfriends.****

 

It's this kind of thinking that makes me encourage my guy to shut down his "friendships" with women. If you women who MUST be "freinds" with men get off on the thought that you're getting something for nothing, then it's no wonder that the whole institution of opporsite sex friendships is polluted.

 

C'mon girls, you know as well as I do, when you're out with a guy, he's more likely to pay for a drink and sometimes more than when you're with another female friend. And also open the doors and pull out chairs for you AS IF you two were on a date. And you know when you're out with the guy, that's less time for him to be with his wife / gf and also to be available to someone new if he happens to be single at that moment.

 

And guess what, you don't even have to have (the dirty)sex with him (like his wife or gf has to) because he's understood, you two are just "friends." Or you think he should understand, in any case....

 

so yeah, this is why I got my boyfriend to shut down his "friendship" with his "ex." If he's going to go around paying bar tabs, he can start with my friends not hers. (as per the other thread started by SingleGuy). And if he and I had not been dating, he would have been so happy for an invitation even a late "whom can we invite to cover the bar tab tonight" kind of invitation that he would have gone.

 

So yes, for you ladies who like being squired around by eunuchs (with wallets), I'm sure it becomes pretty irksome when your male "friend" finally does take on a gf or a wife.

Edited March 14, 2012 by BeyondtheClouds

[RedRobin]

****Most of you treat your co-workers and friends better than you do your wives and girlfriends.****

 

It's this kind of thinking that makes me encourage my guy to shut down his "friendships" with women. If you women who MUST be "freinds" with men get off on the thought that you're getting something for nothing, then it's no wonder that the whole institution of opporsite sex friendships is polluted.

 

C'mon girls, you know as well as I do, when you're out with a guy, he's more likely to pay for a drink and sometimes more than when you're with another female friend. And also open the doors and pull out chairs for you AS IF you two were on a date. And you know when you're out with the guy, that's less time for him to be with his wife / gf and also to be available to someone new if he happens to be single at that moment.

 

And guess what, you don't even have to have (the dirty)sex with him (like his wife or gf has to) because he's understood, you two are just "friends." Or you think he should understand, in any case....

 

so yeah, this is why I got my boyfriend to shut down his "friendship" with his "ex." If he's going to go around paying bar tabs, he can start with my friends not hers. (as per the other thread started by SingleGuy). And if he and I had not been dating, he would have been so happy for an invitation even a late "whom can we invite to cover the bar tab tonight" kind of invitation that he would have gone.

 

So yes, for you ladies who like being squired around by eunuchs (with wallets), I'm sure it becomes pretty irksome when your male "friend" finally does take on a gf or a wife.

 

none of your examples are true in my case. It sounds like your BF has inappropriate boundaries.

 

So yea, he stops having inappropriate friendships or you find another BF. I agree.

[RedRobin]

I don't think it is good to complain about our SOs to our friends and family.

 

But I also think it can be important for people to talk through issues, so that they understand why they are upset and how to talk to their partner about it.

 

You see a friend's husband being a dream husband, but she lives with him and sees other sides. I guess what I am saying is, it isn't always as simple as appreciate or don't appreciate. She can appreciate him, and still grow resentful over issues that never get addressed properly. She can adore him, and still struggle to accept his faults. That acceptance usually comes after many years of marriage, if the marriage lasts that long

 

 

 

Not universal, but certainly common among both genders.

 

I DO try to listen to her and sympathise. Sometimes her complaints come off as "I'm married and you're not! na na na na na." Or it feels that way at least due to my own insecurities. My way of coping with it is to deflect... to support her marriage without getting into stuff that seems rather melodramatic (on her end).

 

And since I've been married before, I do know about how things can be different 'behind closed doors'. I"m very, very attentive to those kinds of things.

 

I've been friends with her for going on 15 years now. She's been married for 10. They've made it through some tough times together, so I think they'll do fine. They both have other friends too, so I think my strategy of pointing her to someone who has had a successful marriage would probably be best for both of us.

[udolipixie]

It's this kind of thinking that makes me encourage my guy to shut down his "friendships" with women. If you women who MUST be "freinds" with men get off on the thought that you're getting something for nothing, then it's no wonder that the whole institution of opporsite sex friendships is polluted.

How is it that women who want to be friends with men are getting something for nothing?

Most likely they're being a friend in return.

 

Are you the type who thinks that treating a male friend like a friend is using him as an emotional tampon or that if a woman has a male friend she has to dole out sex? Or that if he's a good friend that means he's date/bf material or at least give him a pity f*Ck? I would think that mindset pollutes opposite sex friendships.

 

C'mon girls, you know as well as I do, when you're out with a guy, he's more likely to pay for a drink and sometimes more than when you're with another female friend.

Those who take advantage of that wouldn't be good friends. Though that's no different than people who take advantage of their friends favors and kindness.

 

And also open the doors and pull out chairs for you AS IF you two were on a date.

Egh that truly depends on the guy.

 

And you know when you're out with the guy, that's less time for him to be with his wife / gf and also to be available to someone new if he happens to be single at that moment.

No different from the less time available for him to spend if he chooses going to a club, strip club, bar, sporting game, poker night, or a night out with the boys without his partner.

 

And guess what, you don't even have to have (the dirty)sex with him (like his wife or gf has to) because he's understood, you two are just "friends." Or you think he should understand, in any case....

Ah you seem to have that mindset I stated earlier.

 

So yes, for you ladies who like being squired around by eunuchs (with wallets), I'm sure it becomes pretty irksome when your male "friend" finally does take on a gf or a wife.

I think you're missing the point that it's not partner male friends but some male friends with gfs/wives and they treat their female friends better than their female partners.

 

Quite odd to miss that since this is at the top:

****Most of you treat your co-workers and friends better than you do your wives and girlfriends.****

[BeyondtheClouds]

none of your examples are true in my case. It sounds like your BF has inappropriate boundaries.

 

So yea, he stops having inappropriate friendships or you find another BF. I agree.

 

 

the question becomes, however, how often does this happen with other people.

[RedRobin]

Thank you all VERY much for all of the great replies.

 

Alot of food for thought, for sure...but I really, really need to suck myself out of here for awhile. It is definately addictive... posting here!

[xxoo]

I DO try to listen to her and sympathise. Sometimes her complaints come off as "I'm married and you're not! na na na na na." Or it feels that way at least due to my own insecurities. My way of coping with it is to deflect... to support her marriage without getting into stuff that seems rather melodramatic (on her end).

 

And since I've been married before, I do know about how things can be different 'behind closed doors'. I"m very, very attentive to those kinds of things.

 

I've been friends with her for going on 15 years now. She's been married for 10. They've made it through some tough times together, so I think they'll do fine. They both have other friends too, so I think my strategy of pointing her to someone who has had a successful marriage would probably be best for both of us.

 

Oh, I don't think you need to do anything differently.

 

I'm just responding to the idea that she doesn't appreciate him, or appreciate him enough, if she expresses any problems in the marriage.

 

Absolutely, redirect her if you don't feel comfortable with the conversation.

 

Do you really think your friend is throwing her marriage in your face? That doesn't sound like the motivations of a good friend.

[zengirl]

I don't think it is good to complain about our SOs to our friends and family.

 

But I also think it can be important for people to talk through issues, so that they understand why they are upset and how to talk to their partner about it.

 

I think a lot of it really depends on what you say. I may complain about a fight with hubby, but I would always be careful not to say anything that would demean or humiliate him---generally I don't say anything that I wouldn't say to his face. I try not to do that in general with my friends, family, and spouse.

[RedRobin]

the question becomes, however, how often does this happen with other people.

 

ok...just one more response... because I can see you have an ongoing issue to resolve.

 

When I was younger, I doubt I could have managed a responsible friendship with the opposite sex. It wasn't until I was divorced and chose not to date for awhile that I learned (successfully, I think) how to navigate through the various levels of interaction in a respectful way.

 

I've also learned to take measures to avoid being inadvertently drawn into an affair type situation. If the other women in your BF's life aren't trying to engage in a respectful, yo da boss, kind of way with you, then that is probably a red flag on their part. I make this clear with my male friends too. When in doubt, I always verify with their wife/GF.

 

In some ways, I guess it IS similar to an open relationship... but no sex or any promise of sex is on the table. If I thought there were lingering 'love' feelings happening, I'd quit that too. Slippery slope and all that. There are cases of emotional affairs happening between people (not me), and those can be just as or more devastating than physical affairs.

 

If it isn't for you, then its good that you recognize it and communicate that to your BF and/or future partners.

[RedRobin]

Oh, I don't think you need to do anything differently.

 

I'm just responding to the idea that she doesn't appreciate him, or appreciate him enough, if she expresses any problems in the marriage.

 

Absolutely, redirect her if you don't feel comfortable with the conversation.

 

Do you really think your friend is throwing her marriage in your face? That doesn't sound like the motivations of a good friend.

 

...or two (responses... damn!)

 

She's pretty competitive. I take the good with the 'bad'. Everyone has their insecurities. I'm accepting that it is just as likely that I'm the one who is oversensitive about not having my marriage work.

 

When I see the things she complains about, it just seems so trivial in the big scheme of things. They are her hurts though... trying not to judge. She's been a great friend to me over the years.

 

It takes ALOT for me to ditch a friend. A major betrayal would have to occur. Or they would have to exhibit ongoing examples of poor character. Even then, I wouldn't eliminate them completely, if they were ever very close. I'd tell them I can't accept their current behavior, and if they want to clean up their act, then I'll consider being friends with them again.

 

Tough love is part of being a good friend too.