Woggle Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 So they hand over their money? Talk about a self-fulfilling prophesy! They don't want to be a cash cow or walking wallet, then they turn away women who don't look for that. Makes no sense to me at all. Because if a woman needs our money a man feels at least she has some use for us.
xxoo Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Because if a woman needs our money a man feels at least she has some use for us. That's as bad as an insecure woman having sex she doesn't want in order to feel valued. To succeed in dating, it helps to independently believe in your worth. 1
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 Because if a woman needs our money a man feels at least she has some use for us. Hmm... my male friends seem to think I have some need for them... and no cash changes hands. Seems to me my friendships are more healthy than some relationships... which kind of brings me back to my original point. I don't use men for cash and my guy friends don't use me for sex. In both cases, we are relating to each other on a very basic human level. Seems like a better start than most dating situations these days. Except the catch 22 is that I would never intrude on another person's relationship. So I'm back to the trying to relate to men I date on a person-to-person basis first...and not on a money/sex exchange.
ComMan Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Fair enough. There are women in the same place as these men, and they can find each other. But there ARE men out there who want a relationship. I think there is a lot of wisdom in delaying a sexual relationship, unless you are already friends and know each other well. I can't imagine getting naked with someone I barely know. Some men will lose interest without early sex. That's good information. No loss! MOST Men lose interest AFTER early sex.
joystickd Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Perhaps. According to what I read on LS though, it's more about physical attractiveness for men than other qualities. At least I know my friends value me as a person. They aren't just hanging around to get a piece of ass. You never know really what a person wants until you get to know them. Physical attractiveness is just the initial interest in a person getting to know them is what keeps interest going. Its counterproductive in getting to know someone when you have preconcieved notion that they are just wanting ass.
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 This sounds like you are blaming all men for bad relationships. Often they blame goes both ways. You sound bitter and whatever you may say about the GF and wives going along with it that is because you hide your true colors. A lot of times men date younger women because they don't have to deal with the BS of being treated like you were all the exs that treated you wrong. Like the saying goes Better a turnout than a burnout. Nope. I've never cheated nor have I participated in a man cheating on their wife/girlfriend. I HAVE recommended to my former male friends (and female friends too) who were cheating or tempted to cheat to seek counseling. Seems to me I've acted more like a friend than some of their other frenemies who egg them on. I know all about those. Frenemies. I attribute the failure of my marriage in part to my ex-H's SAME SEX frenemies. They come in all genders, you know. We all know why many men date much younger women. It certainly isn't because they value her as a human being. Now that's a good one!! Try again.
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 You never know really what a person wants until you get to know them. Physical attractiveness is just the initial interest in a person getting to know them is what keeps interest going. Its counterproductive in getting to know someone when you have preconcieved notion that they are just wanting ass. Believe it or not, I have no preconcieved notions going in. You guys shoot yourselves in the foot by trying to grab that ass before taking the time to get to know the woman. It's a shared risk you know.
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 ...and I'm going to chalk this thread up to having a bit of a down day. I'm in the process of selling my house, and have some job decisions to make soon that are wearing on me. The house I'm selling is the one I bought after my divorce... the one I thought was going to help me start my new life. The economy isn't so great where I'm living right now, and while I can find work it isn't the best. So I'm forced to have to start over and potentially leave the friends and community I've invested in. I say 'potentially' because I haven't made that step yet. It is times like this that I really miss being in a committed relationship and someone to share my life with. Friends are great. They really are. But, yes I know, it isn't the same. Thank you all for your feedback. I'll be back when I can be a bit more upbeat.
Woggle Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 That's as bad as an insecure woman having sex she doesn't want in order to feel valued. To succeed in dating, it helps to independently believe in your worth. I know that logically but I like many men hate feeling disposable and have a complex about it.
ComMan Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Woggle, your wife will cheat on you, have a complex about that. Also get some help for your brain.
sid3 Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 ...and I'm going to chalk this thread up to having a bit of a down day. I'm in the process of selling my house, and have some job decisions to make soon that are wearing on me. The house I'm selling is the one I bought after my divorce... the one I thought was going to help me start my new life. The economy isn't so great where I'm living right now, and while I can find work it isn't the best. So I'm forced to have to start over and potentially leave the friends and community I've invested in. I say 'potentially' because I haven't made that step yet. It is times like this that I really miss being in a committed relationship and someone to share my life with. Friends are great. They really are. But, yes I know, it isn't the same. Thank you all for your feedback. I'll be back when I can be a bit more upbeat. Yeah I can relate to that. I have mine on the market right now. Its uglyl out there.. Take comfort knowing that although the value of our homes have been all but destroyed, we all helped save our lenders. Gotta love the RE agents blowing suneshine up your ass too:mad: I'm waiting with hope for some change. The job market sucks to as you know, hell of a time to try and make a major decision with so much uncertainty out there. Would truly suck to relocate and the see another 2008. Scary times coming if had goes over $5 IMO
ComMan Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Yeah I can relate to that. I have mine on the market right now. Its uglyl out there.. Take comfort knowing that although the value of our homes have been all but destroyed, we all helped save our lenders. Gotta love the RE agents blowing suneshine up your ass too:mad: I'm waiting with hope for some change. The job market sucks to as you know, hell of a time to try and make a major decision with so much uncertainty out there. Would truly suck to relocate and the see another 2008. Scary times coming if had goes over $5 IMO I know right? I am not paying 10 bucks or even 8 to get head.
sid3 Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I know right? I am not paying 10 bucks or even 8 to get head. Hell you can get her a whole four pack of wine coolers for less than that. You are a lucky man. Gotta love that Fair trash, ah spring is the air, summer is a comin.
Almond_Joy Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 We all know why many men date much younger women. It certainly isn't because they value her as a human being. Now that's a good one!! Try again. I'm sure a lot of guys go for younger women exclusively for sexual fulfillment...but I also think a lot of times, they go after younger women because they don't want unnecessary drama. A lot of people incur resentment and insecurities from previous relationships that didn't work out. It takes a lot of work to fully recover from the end of a romantic relationship you're seriously invested in, and some don't know or learn the path to a healthy recovery. As a result, people enter into new relationships with unresolved resentment and insecurities. That manifests itself in a number of ways that complicate a relationship and prevent the two in it from really enjoying the relationship and building it on a healthy, stable foundation. If a person is aware of all this, and is able to monitor/check/work through their personal hangups from previous relationships, it makes sense that they want someone who can do the same....or even better, be with someone who doesn't have hangups from previous relationships. The younger the person is, the more likely it is that the latter will apply. I don't fault someone older, who has the aforementioned ability, for trying to establish a healthy, committed relationship with a younger person just because they're younger. I switched to people because this can go either way. That's my perspective. Just my two cents on the main theme in this thread: Opposite-sex friendships and romantic relationships. In my experience, I have noticed that oftentimes, people will treat their friends better than their SO. I agree with someone else's statement that it's a natural occurrence in any relationship - you get comfortable and take those closest to you for granted. It doesn't make the person bad or unsuitable for relationships. All it takes to resolve is communication. The person feeling neglected says as much, the partner taking them for granted responds to the complaint (i.e. changes how they treat the person, talks about why the change occurred, refuses to accommodate the need, ...whatever). I know things are always easier said than done , but I've never failed to effectively address discontent in my relationships with this approach when applied. I disagree that having emotional needs met by friends instead of by a romantic partner is wrong. What is wrong is laying the responsibility for all of your emotional needs as a human solely on one other human being. No one person can fulfill every person's needs and to expect one person to be able to fulfill all your needs isn't fair to that person. It's my perspective that a romantic relationship enhances your quality of life rather than defines it. Having platonic relationships with members of the opposite sex is important for this "distribution of fulfillment", so to speak. Also, If you're romantically involved with someone of the opposite sex, and have no platonic friends of the opposite sex, your perception of how to interact with members of the opposite sex can get warped, because you have only your romantic relationship to reference/evaluate against. You need platonic OS friends to keep that warping in check. A past relationship experience I had is similar to RedRobin's marriage in that I had no friends when I was with that man before or during the relationship - close or otherwise. It was really hard for me to feel comfortable talking to guys without assuming there was a romantic interest because that's the only capacity in which guys had ever had an extended interaction with me (outside of a professional environment). Maybe my circumstances were extreme, but I really appreciate opposite-sex friendships as a result. Great thread!
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) I'm sure a lot of guys go for younger women exclusively for sexual fulfillment...but I also think a lot of times, they go after younger women because they don't want unnecessary drama. A lot of people incur resentment and insecurities from previous relationships that didn't work out. It takes a lot of work to fully recover from the end of a romantic relationship you're seriously invested in, and some don't know or learn the path to a healthy recovery. As a result, people enter into new relationships with unresolved resentment and insecurities. That manifests itself in a number of ways that complicate a relationship and prevent the two in it from really enjoying the relationship and building it on a healthy, stable foundation. If a person is aware of all this, and is able to monitor/check/work through their personal hangups from previous relationships, it makes sense that they want someone who can do the same....or even better, be with someone who doesn't have hangups from previous relationships. The younger the person is, the more likely it is that the latter will apply. I don't fault someone older, who has the aforementioned ability, for trying to establish a healthy, committed relationship with a younger person just because they're younger. I switched to people because this can go either way. That's my perspective. Just my two cents on the main theme in this thread: Opposite-sex friendships and romantic relationships. In my experience, I have noticed that oftentimes, people will treat their friends better than their SO. I agree with someone else's statement that it's a natural occurrence in any relationship - you get comfortable and take those closest to you for granted. It doesn't make the person bad or unsuitable for relationships. All it takes to resolve is communication. The person feeling neglected says as much, the partner taking them for granted responds to the complaint (i.e. changes how they treat the person, talks about why the change occurred, refuses to accommodate the need, ...whatever). I know things are always easier said than done , but I've never failed to effectively address discontent in my relationships with this approach when applied. I disagree that having emotional needs met by friends instead of by a romantic partner is wrong. What is wrong is laying the responsibility for all of your emotional needs as a human solely on one other human being. No one person can fulfill every person's needs and to expect one person to be able to fulfill all your needs isn't fair to that person. It's my perspective that a romantic relationship enhances your quality of life rather than defines it. Having platonic relationships with members of the opposite sex is important for this "distribution of fulfillment", so to speak. Also, If you're romantically involved with someone of the opposite sex, and have no platonic friends of the opposite sex, your perception of how to interact with members of the opposite sex can get warped, because you have only your romantic relationship to reference/evaluate against. You need platonic OS friends to keep that warping in check. A past relationship experience I had is similar to RedRobin's marriage in that I had no friends when I was with that man before or during the relationship - close or otherwise. It was really hard for me to feel comfortable talking to guys without assuming there was a romantic interest because that's the only capacity in which guys had ever had an extended interaction with me (outside of a professional environment). Maybe my circumstances were extreme, but I really appreciate opposite-sex friendships as a result. Great thread! One thing I find about younger people in general, is that many of them are actively seeking to be in a committed relationship... or they definately view marriage as being something valuable. At least the ones I'm around. The ones who don't seem to value marriage or are commitment phobic have some issues either from childhood or a bad relationship. The mistake alot of people make is assuming that having had prior relationships necessarily equals 'baggage'. We are a sum of our life experiences, and sometimes those life experiences come long before romantic relationships. I happen to believe my desire and ability to maintain healthy friendships with both genders is a positive outcome of my divorce... not a negative one. What I don't like about the dynamic between much older and younger people is the imbalance... not necessarily in maturity, but in life stages. My young friend who was very much after me left no doubt in my mind that he really did care for me. But he couldn't convince me that he didn't want a family. Or at least, I wasn't ready to shoulder the responsibility for depriving him of that. You could say that I'm almost a martyr... in that I will deprive myself of temporary happiness for what I percieve is the long term benefit of someone else. But, since I'm not 20 or 30 something, I'm not worthwhile to alot of men my own age... men who are often carrying tons more hurt and anger than I am. These same men have NO qualms about using up a woman's young years to make themselves feel better rather than address their issues. And that makes me sick to my stomach. When I see them engage in that, it instantly rules them out as a potential partner for me. I perceive them as selfish and shallow. Not to mention the fact that lots of them are single for the reason that they didn't value their wives when they were married... and they are still expecting women to pick up the slack. The final word on the frenemies... alot of these newly single men have other bitter same sex friends who sabotage any budding relationship with a new woman. I dated a man for a few months that was going wonderfully (or so I thought). We were joking about the salary of a public official and I blurted out my salary. (we were joking that the guy gets paid too much)... and my BF's face just froze and he changed the subject. It didn't occur to me to ask him what happened. He broke up with me a couple weeks later. Seems his 'friends' told him that whomever makes the most money has the 'control'. I had no idea how much money he made. Never asked. Never cared. His family loved me. Told him he was making a big mistake. But no, his other single buddies...yea. Listen to them. In retrospect, they did me a favor. But I'm making the point that it isn't just opposite sex friends who cause problems. Lots of times, people will have other single friends who don't like seeing them happy and paired up either. Or, they have their own veiw of what makes a happy relationship, and they want to toss rocks at you. I see this alot on LS. Edited March 13, 2012 by RedRobin
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 I really need to get off this for awhile. It doesn't seem to be having a positive effect. Need to focus on making some important decisions rather than obsessing about my love life.
sid3 Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I really need to get off this for awhile. It doesn't seem to be having a positive effect. Need to focus on making some important decisions rather than obsessing about my love life. Ironically obsessing about your love life provides a nice distraction from the stress and depression that can come with having to make some tough decisions. Like I mentioned, it is a really tough environment right now to be trying to sell home and thinking about relocating for work. I can say for me, suddenly focusing more on my dating life provides an escape so to speak from the constant stress of listing my home and possibly moving several states away for work.Too much uncertainty creates a lot of anxiety, not all that appealing. 1
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Yeah I can relate to that. I have mine on the market right now. Its uglyl out there.. Take comfort knowing that although the value of our homes have been all but destroyed, we all helped save our lenders. Gotta love the RE agents blowing suneshine up your ass too:mad: I'm waiting with hope for some change. The job market sucks to as you know, hell of a time to try and make a major decision with so much uncertainty out there. Would truly suck to relocate and the see another 2008. Scary times coming if had goes over $5 IMO Good luck selling your house! Hope you make out! Edited March 13, 2012 by RedRobin
Jane2011 Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I like having male friends, too. I have two or three currently that I feel are very legitimately 'just friends'. Not that they don't find me attractive or that I don't find them attractive, just that there's this clear sense that I'm not after them nor are they after me; we don't 'go there', for whatever reason (actually, there are reasons, but not important to get into). We talk about our dating lives to each other, and their interests are always in women who are not me. And vice versa. I have a few others who are also 'just friends', but somehow with them I get the sense that they're on alert, at any given time, as to whether I"m attracted to them or not. i.e., I can tell they would pounce if I gave them a sign, but they're savvy enough not to proceed in the absence of a sign. Those I feel less comfortable with, regardless. And I agree it's nicer to be friends with males than in a relationship with them. They do treat you better that way, more often than not. This is not to say that men don't treat their girlfriends well. But somehow, when you are just friends with a guy, he doesn't have any power over you at all, and it shows in his level of courtesy in subtle ways. It's just human nature to treat people more respectfully, the less power you have over them...
Woggle Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 A woman's manhating friends can be just as bad. My ex had friends who cheered her on when she cheated on me because they were convinced I was the cause of all her woes. Many men I know who have been divorced tell the same story.
Almond_Joy Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 One thing I find about younger people in general, is that many of them are actively seeking to be in a committed relationship... or they definately view marriage as being something valuable. At least the ones I'm around. Yeah. I often hear a lot of reference to 20-somethings running amok from one casual fling to another, but I've only met one guy in this age range who wanted that. It was for a very short period of time after he'd had two failed long-term relationships, and when he found a girl he really loved, he was more than happy to be committed again. But, since I'm not 20 or 30 something, I'm not worthwhile to alot of men my own age... men who are often carrying tons more hurt and anger than I am. These same men have NO qualms about using up a woman's young years to make themselves feel better rather than address their issues. And that makes me sick to my stomach. When I see them engage in that, it instantly rules them out as a potential partner for me. I perceive them as selfish and shallow. Not to mention the fact that lots of them are single for the reason that they didn't value their wives when they were married... and they are still expecting women to pick up the slack. This, I think, is the worst-case scenario of older folks coupling with younger folks, and much more prevalent when the man is older and the woman is younger. Unfortunately, it does seem that this is more common than the scenario I proposed in my other post.
sid3 Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Good luck selling your house! Hope you make out! Thanks, I'll certainly need it. There are only a few good markets out here. You never know, maybe the grass will be greener, there's only one way to find out. It's definitely a bold move. I commend you for doing the research, but I don't know just how much I'd trust the actual Census numbers.
dispatch3d Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 that's some intense nice guy hate right there.
mesmerized Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Just have guy friends and sex buddies. The rest will bring you heartache/disappointments. 1
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