Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 Will people stop being so hard on the OP. She said something in the heat of the moment that sounded bitter but I am sure she doesn't generally feel that way. Not all men are unappreciative of their wives and girlfriends and women are just as bad. I am sure you know at least one woman who has a great guy who treats her great but is somehow still unhappy. It goes both ways. Thank you Woggle. I did back away from my earlier frustration... and it is just that. Frustration. I don't like the feeling that the only way I'm allowed to 'relate' to men is through my legs. That is the sense I'm getting from some of the posters here. And you know what... I wouldn't mind that (relating to men through my legs... that is nice too with the right man)... but too few are looking for anything of substance.
joystickd Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Thank you Woggle. I did back away from my earlier frustration... and it is just that. Frustration. I don't like the feeling that the only way I'm allowed to 'relate' to men is through my legs. That is the sense I'm getting from some of the posters here. And you know what... I wouldn't mind that (relating to men through my legs... that is nice too with the right man)... but too few are looking for anything of substance. I'm not saying that there are men out here looking what you are looking for but the thing is the attitude about men you have will run them away from you
zengirl Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I think we expect more of our lovers/spouses than we do of our friends. I know I do. This is very true. I think it's because we only expect to get one spouse (or one lover at a time or whatever), but we can have as many friends as we want. Children also expect more of their "best friend" than their just friends for similar reasons.
joystickd Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Thank you Woggle. I did back away from my earlier frustration... and it is just that. Frustration. I don't like the feeling that the only way I'm allowed to 'relate' to men is through my legs. That is the sense I'm getting from some of the posters here. And you know what... I wouldn't mind that (relating to men through my legs... that is nice too with the right man)... but too few are looking for anything of substance. Did any man here clearly say that its the only way or implied it. I think not. YOU think that and that says a lot about you
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 I'm not jumping down your throat... or at least I'm not trying to. I'm saying that your view of the world is very unbalanced. You need to understand that relationships are not all one way. Men don't just take and women don't just give... it goes both ways. You blame men for relationship issues... what you really need to do is just take responsibility for your own and not let anyone drag you down. I understand that. If I really thought all men were takers, I wouldn't be friends with any. The point is... it seems men are socialized to get their emotional needs met through sex. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with that. I do too. But for too many men, that is where it ends. With our current trends also leading towards no commitment... It seems like a very risky business for any woman who isn't willing to f*ck around on the 'hope' of having a relationship.
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 Did any man here clearly say that its the only way or implied it. I think not. YOU think that and that says a lot about you Alright, then you define what you mean by a 'relationship' then, because I've read some of your threads too.
xxoo Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I think we expect more of our lovers/spouses than we do of our friends. I know I do. This is very true. I do have some male friends who are fun to share a laugh with, and are someone I can call for a favor (and vice versa), but I would NEVER date or marry. In that case, yes, I'd rather be their friend. But I don't prefer their friendship to a good relationship with a man.
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 I'm not saying that there are men out here looking what you are looking for but the thing is the attitude about men you have will run them away from you Perhaps. According to what I read on LS though, it's more about physical attractiveness for men than other qualities. At least I know my friends value me as a person. They aren't just hanging around to get a piece of ass.
sid3 Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 You being backstage with some dude wearing lipstick, shows more about you than me, since I never even gone to them shows...go on now, you got plenty to burn Haha. Your right, seeing Vince Neil freshening up his lipstick back stage still burns. Pick a better hero the next time you want to sound all manly.... Them shows? Definitely hillbilly,but from where? likes metallica, hmm. A few more sentences should help narrow it down. 1
joystickd Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Alright, then you define what you mean by a 'relationship' then, because I've read some of your threads too. Same as yours.
zengirl Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Will people stop being so hard on the OP. She said something in the heat of the moment that sounded bitter but I am sure she doesn't generally feel that way. Not all men are unappreciative of their wives and girlfriends and women are just as bad. I am sure you know at least one woman who has a great guy who treats her great but is somehow still unhappy. It goes both ways. This is true. And the OP does not generally sound unreasonable in threads (to me). I think she's just articulating herself poorly on this one.
GoodOnPaper Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Men who have legitimate female friends don't seem to be hung up on gender roles and power plays. They aren't out trying to 'prove' they are the man. They seem to have some intrinsic sense of their worth that transcends whatever body parts the person owns. Which translates to me as being a better human being overall. That's painting men with a pretty broad brush. When it comes to relationships with the opposite sex, I consider friendship and romance to be on the same intimacy continuum. If I'm developing a real friendship with a woman -- to the point where I'm starting to reveal things about myself that I don't to most people -- then physical feelings will naturally start to develop as well. Now there could be some boundaries in place that help prevent me from acting on the feelings -- like she's married or she's friends with my wife or there are some kind of connections via family or business that I don't want to cross, etc. -- but the idea of a complete separation of "friendship" feelings and "romance" feelings seems totally foreign to me. I guess my point is that if I express romantic feelings for a female friend, I am not trying to "use" her. I've seen lots of LS posts from women who are disappointed or hurt when a friendship is "ruined" by the guy's expression of deeper feeling. There can be hurt on the guy's side, too. I've never understood how a woman could care so deeply for a guy as a friend yet find the idea of someone wanting to sleep with that guy to be so repulsive. 1
xxoo Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 The point is... it seems men are socialized to get their emotional needs met through sex. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with that. I do too. But for too many men, that is where it ends. With our current trends also leading towards no commitment... It seems like a very risky business for any woman who isn't willing to f*ck around on the 'hope' of having a relationship. A lot of guys past the age of youthful idealism have been hurt (left, divorced, cheated on). Women, too, of course. But since men often CAN separate emotional needs from sexual needs, they may resort to doing so out of fear of being hurt again. So they grow close to friends (sometimes exclusively male), and date women for sex. I see that a lot on this board.
Woggle Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Perhaps. According to what I read on LS though, it's more about physical attractiveness for men than other qualities. At least I know my friends value me as a person. They aren't just hanging around to get a piece of ass. But women are just as bad. It's either that or they view men as a walking wallet. How many women actually want a relationship with a man so they can genuinely have a partner to share a life with? 1
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 This is very true. I think it's because we only expect to get one spouse (or one lover at a time or whatever), but we can have as many friends as we want. Children also expect more of their "best friend" than their just friends for similar reasons. One thing that is really nice about my friends are their diversity. I'll admit something though. That just occurred to me. When I was married, we were joined at the hip. I had very few male or female friends. He was my whole world... but he was not a nice man. My isolation from outside friendships did not help things. It did not help me to stand up to him when I should have or seek help myself when things got difficult. When we started having problems, and after it ended, I had few people to turn to except my immediate family, and even that was not as close because we spent most of our 'family' time with his family. So I spent years learning to cultivate and maintain friendships. Of all kinds. I take great pride in earning the trust of my friends. I've had some tough times too... and they've all been there for me too. Overall, my life is alot more balanced than it was when I was married. I honestly can't imagine going back to the life I had before where one person was the center of my universe. I've tried having relationships since my divorce, but times have changed since I was on the dating market. People don't seem to want the things they used to want. Or they want them with much less investment. I get that. Commitment is scary. Which is why I've turned to my friendships. but to go forward with men who don't even want that? They want me to just **** them for awhile and see where it goes? Sorry. Can't do that. Never could.
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 But women are just as bad. It's either that or they view men as a walking wallet. How many women actually want a relationship with a man so they can genuinely have a partner to share a life with? I do. and I prove it from day one. I've never asked a man to pay for a date. I always offer to pay my share. Always have. But you know what I've learned? Alot of men don't value what they don't pay for. They view women who pay their share as expendable... not partners. Or we are 'feminazi's' trying to take men's jobs away from them. When a woman actually demonstrates a willingness to ACT like a partner, not just talk like one, it is looked down upon.
ComMan Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 One thing that is really nice about my friends are their diversity. I'll admit something though. That just occurred to me. When I was married, we were joined at the hip. I had very few male or female friends. He was my whole world... but he was not a nice man. My isolation from outside friendships did not help things. It did not help me to stand up to him when I should have or seek help myself when things got difficult. When we started having problems, and after it ended, I had few people to turn to except my immediate family, and even that was not as close because we spent most of our 'family' time with his family. So I spent years learning to cultivate and maintain friendships. Of all kinds. I take great pride in earning the trust of my friends. I've had some tough times too... and they've all been there for me too. Overall, my life is alot more balanced than it was when I was married. I honestly can't imagine going back to the life I had before where one person was the center of my universe. I've tried having relationships since my divorce, but times have changed since I was on the dating market. People don't seem to want the things they used to want. Or they want them with much less investment. I get that. Commitment is scary. Which is why I've turned to my friendships. but to go forward with men who don't even want that? They want me to just **** them for awhile and see where it goes? Sorry. Can't do that. Never could. I am that Man, as all the Alpha Males like me! You let one guy change your whole world view...what a weak bitch you are.
Woggle Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I do. and I prove it from day one. I've never asked a man to pay for a date. I always offer to pay my share. Always have. But you know what I've learned? Alot of men don't value what they don't pay for. They view women who pay their share as expendable... not partners. Or we are 'feminazi's' trying to take men's jobs away from them. When a woman actually demonstrates a willingness to ACT like a partner, not just talk like one, it is looked down upon. I agree with you but men are sort of in a catch 22. We want an equal partner but we hate feeling disposable. When we get the message rammed down our throats about how useless we are and how women don't need us it makes us search for any sign that we are not disposable to her.
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 A lot of guys past the age of youthful idealism have been hurt (left, divorced, cheated on). Women, too, of course. But since men often CAN separate emotional needs from sexual needs, they may resort to doing so out of fear of being hurt again. So they grow close to friends (sometimes exclusively male), and date women for sex. I see that a lot on this board. and you know what? I feel for them. I really do. I've been hurt too... but I'm not going to offer up my body for them to take their frustrations out on... especially when our interactions involve little more than time. It's not like I'm sucking their wallet dry while we get to know each other.
Els Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Perhaps. According to what I read on LS though, it's more about physical attractiveness for men than other qualities. At least I know my friends value me as a person. They aren't just hanging around to get a piece of ass. Come now.. LS is probably the worst place to get an accurate RL relationship/dating consensus on. 3
zengirl Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Come now.. LS is probably the worst place to get an accurate RL relationship/dating consensus on. True that. Seriously, don't let LS get you down, OP. 2
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 I am that Man, as all the Alpha Males like me! You let one guy change your whole world view...what a weak bitch you are. You are no alpha, that is for sure. The true alpha males are my friends. Think about it.
ComMan Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Alpha would NEVER have a chick as a friend that he wants to f8ck.
Author RedRobin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 I agree with you but men are sort of in a catch 22. We want an equal partner but we hate feeling disposable. When we get the message rammed down our throats about how useless we are and how women don't need us it makes us search for any sign that we are not disposable to her. So they hand over their money? Talk about a self-fulfilling prophesy! They don't want to be a cash cow or walking wallet, then they turn away women who don't look for that. Makes no sense to me at all.
xxoo Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 and you know what? I feel for them. I really do. I've been hurt too... but I'm not going to offer up my body for them to take their frustrations out on... especially when our interactions involve little more than time. It's not like I'm sucking their wallet dry while we get to know each other. Fair enough. There are women in the same place as these men, and they can find each other. But there ARE men out there who want a relationship. I think there is a lot of wisdom in delaying a sexual relationship, unless you are already friends and know each other well. I can't imagine getting naked with someone I barely know. Some men will lose interest without early sex. That's good information. No loss!
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