Why having male friends is better than having a relationship with them

[RedRobin]

I thought about the 'friend' thread somemore... and woke up thinking...

 

why DO I have so many male friends? I have lots of female friends too. Very good ones. Ones I've had for over 30 years, some of them.

 

But the reason why I wonder about my male friends is because I am looking for a relationship... but find myself quickly retreating back to the safety and comfort of my friends/family.

 

I have to admit. My friendships provide *most* of my emotional needs. Sure, it would be wonderful to connect with a man both in a physical and emotional/trusting way. However, having worked around mostly men my entire life... and having many male friends... no offense guys... really.

 

Most of you treat your co-workers and friends better than you do your wives and girlfriends. It's like, you go home to 'plug-in' (pun intended) and that's about it. You cheat on them. Lie to them. Disrespect them with your thoughtless habits and expectations that they (women) will somehow erase all of your petty insecurities.

 

That is why I have male friends. Men who have legitimate female friends treat me better than men who don't have female friends and want to date me. I've found that I can be friends to them too, without the ridiculous power games that many men are plagued by and seem to be powerless to escape once they are interested in a woman romantically.

 

It's true. Most women don't have any problems finding someone to f*ck. We also don't need to settle for bad behavior... the cheating, lying, angry outbursts, insecurity about your earning potential, insecurity about our past relationships, insecurity about your dick size and potency that you play out by chasing after much younger women you have zero in common with, and derogatory thoughts/comments about our bodies that you don't share about your own. Basically, we have better things to do than spend all of our time stroking your egos so that you can feel like 'the man'.

 

Men who have legitimate female friends don't seem to be hung up on gender roles and power plays. They aren't out trying to 'prove' they are the man. They seem to have some intrinsic sense of their worth that transcends whatever body parts the person owns. Which translates to me as being a better human being overall. Those are the kind of people I prefer to spend time with.

[xxoo]

If they are such great guys, why don't you date one of them?

[Professor X]

Good for you.

[RedRobin]

If they are such great guys, why don't you date one of them?

 

You misunderstood me. I'd rather be friends with most men than be treated the way they treat women when they are in a romantic relationship with one.

 

When I come across men with legitimate female friends I HAVE dated them. In the couple of cases that come to mind, other lifestyle differences have come up that made things incompatible. I'm still friends with one or two of them and have become friends with their GFs.. who are frankly a much better fit for them than me.

 

I like knowing that the baby isn't going to be thrown out with the bathwater if we find we can't put a life together for whatever reason.

 

 

There are other issues too... if they don't appear to be looking for a committed relationship, then I'm not going to jeopardize a good friendship just for the sake of 'getting some'. They can go have their FWB's, and exercise their commitment phobic ways with some other woman's heart. I find that their GF's come and go. But I stay. As long as I'm a real friend to them too of course. It's not all one way.

 

There are some who have moved away, or started families, and we've lost touch or we stay in touch infrequently. But that happens with female friends too.

 

Rather than being snarky, xxoo, you could tell us whether your relationship is one of those I'm talking about. Maybe it is? Does your husband treat his friends better than you? Because I sense I hit a nerve here.

 

And professor X... what about you? Are you a guy? If so, have you found yourself treating female friends and co-workers better than your GF/wife? Why is that? Less at stake? You don't care? You care too much? Maybe you can explain it to me.

Edited March 13, 2012 by RedRobin

[xxoo]

You misunderstood me. I'd rather be friends with most men than be treated the way they treat women when they are in a romantic relationship with one.

 

When I come across men with legitimate female friends I HAVE dated them. In the couple of cases that come to mind, other lifestyle differences have come up that made things incompatible. I'm still friends with one or two of them and have become friends with their GFs.. who are frankly a much better fit for them than me.

 

I like knowing that the baby isn't going to be thrown out with the bathwater if we find we can't put a life together for whatever reason.

 

 

There are other issues too... if they don't appear to be looking for a committed relationship, then I'm not going to jeopardize a good friendship just for the sake of 'getting some'. They can go have their FWB's, and exercise their commitment phobic ways with some other woman's heart. I find that their GF's come and go. But I stay. As long as I'm a real friend to them too of course. It's not all one way.

 

There are some who have moved away, or started families, and we've lost touch or we stay in touch infrequently. But that happens with female friends too.

 

Rather than being snarky, xxoo, you could tell us whether your relationship is one of those I'm talking about. Maybe it is? Does your husband treat his friends better than you? Because I sense I hit a nerve here.

.

 

No nerve hit. It was a genuine question.

 

My husband was a friend before we started dating (he was in a relationship when we met). No, he doesn't treat anyone better then me Not even our kids!

 

I have some male friends who I respect a ton (as you describe). If I were single, and they were single, I'd date them.

 

I highly recommend dating a friend, if the attraction there. It worked out for me. Maybe if more couples were friends first, they wouldn't have the issue of treating others better.

[make me believe]

Most of you treat your co-workers and friends better than you do your wives and girlfriends. It's like, you go home to 'plug-in' (pun intended) and that's about it. You cheat on them. Lie to them. Disrespect them with your thoughtless habits and expectations that they (women) will somehow erase all of your petty insecurities.

 

You are friends with men who treat their girlfriends and wives that way?

 

I couldn't disagree more with you. My husband is respectful to EVERYBODY, but he treats me amazingly and definitely not even close to what you described. He doesn't have any female friends, just acquaintances, and definitely nobody that he treats better than me. I think it's sad if you are really surrounded by all these guys who treat their wives & gfs like crap. Why would you be friends with people like that?? The way they treat the person who should be closest to them speaks a lot about their character. I would find it impossible to respect, and be friends with, a guy like that.

[xxoo]

Wait--are you saying that your male friends treat you better than they treat their partners? Because that doesn't really mesh with this:

 

Men who have legitimate female friends don't seem to be hung up on gender roles and power plays. They aren't out trying to 'prove' they are the man. They seem to have some intrinsic sense of their worth that transcends whatever body parts the person owns. Which translates to me as being a better human being overall. Those are the kind of people I prefer to spend time with.

[RedRobin]

No nerve hit. It was a genuine question.

 

My husband was a friend before we started dating (he was in a relationship when we met). No, he doesn't treat anyone better then me Not even our kids!

 

I have some male friends who I respect a ton (as you describe). If I were single, and they were single, I'd date them.

 

I highly recommend dating a friend, if the attraction there. It worked out for me. Maybe if more couples were friends first, they wouldn't have the issue of treating others better.

 

Thank you for replying.

 

I think there are one or two who are dating someone else who I'd date... but I don't want to feel like an orbiter. As a genuine friend with a man, I do whatever is in my power to help them sustain their primary relationship.

 

There is one of my former co-workers who I'd ring in a heartbeat if he ever ended up divorced. We stay in touch for work reasons, but I keep my distance otherwise. I've gotten the impression that he is attracted to me too. I'd never do anything to harm his marriage (but if he ended up single through NO fault of mine... you BET I'd be there to scoop him up!)

 

Sure, not all of my male friendships have that level of depth. Many of them are little more than acquaintances.

 

On another thread, I mentioned that there was a man 15 years younger than me who chased me for more than THREE years. He was crazy persistent... but ultimately I just couldn't do it. Under any other circumstances, I'd be a fool for not dating him. As a friend and the older and wiser between us, I knew... just knew it wouldn't last. He was so sweet with his neices and nephews. I knew he'd crave to be a father someday, and I couldn't give him that. I knew that whatever he felt for me right at that moment, wouldn't be able to replace that. So I pushed him away. For my sake (didn't want my heart broken) and also for his.

 

I found out recently that he is engaged to a very nice young lady he met through friends. They are talking about a family. I'd like to think I preserved our friendship and good feelings for the sake of something better. His long term welfare. Not mine (or his) short term loneliness.

 

It can be a little frustrating sometimes. There's an Indigo Girls song called "love will come to you"...

 

Guess i wasn't the best one to ask

Me myself with my face pressed

Up against love's glass

To see the shiny toy i've been hoping for

The one i never could afford

The wide world spins and spits turmoil

And the nations toil for peace

But the paws of fear upon your chest

Only love can soothe that beast

And my words are paper tigers

No match for the predators of pain inside her

 

I say love will come to you

Hoping just because i spoke the words that they're true

As if i offered up a crystal ball to look through

Where there's now one there will be two

 

I was born under the sign of cancer

(love will come to you)

Like brushing cloth i smooth the wrinkles for an answer

(love will come)

I'm always closing my eyes and wishing i'm fine

(i close my eyes and wish you fine)

Even though i know i'm not this time

(even though i know your not this time)

 

I say love will come to you

Hoping just because i spoke the words that they're true

As if i offered up a crystal ball to look through

Where there's now one there will be two

 

Dodging your memories a field of knives

Always on the outside looking in on other's lives

 

I say love will come to you

Hoping just because i spoke the words that they're true

As if i offered up a crystal ball to look through

(i have offered up to you)

Where there's now one there will be two

 

And i wish her insight to battle love's blindness

Strength from the milk of human kindness

A safe place for all the pieces that scattered

Learn to pretend there's more than love that matters

[RedRobin]

Wait--are you saying that your male friends treat you better than they treat their partners? Because that doesn't really mesh with this:

 

It is the process of getting to know them as friends that I see how they treat their GF's/wives.

 

... and I totally agree with the former poster that you get a good insight into how they'd treat me by how they treat their GF's and wives.

 

But, I'm not 100% innocent. I have some male friends (more acquaintances than long-term male friends) who DO seem to treat their wives/GF's disrespectfully... and yea, they do treat me alot better.

 

Those men are more like my co-workers. If I needed their advice on how to replace a toilet, scrape paint off my 100 year old house, or sweat a pipe... I'd call them. Or, if they have some prescient, indepth knowledge of monarch butterfly flight that would become invaluable in a pitch I'm giving, then also they are the go-to guy. I'd like to also think that some gentle, outside 'coaching' from a woman they respect at some level will lead them down a different path eventually. But I don't spend too much time trying to convert them.

 

Takes all kinds to make the world go around.

[carhill]

Why having male friends is better than having a relationship with them

 

One answer which comes to mind is getting emotional needs met and, for some women, basking in the situational desire which they find themselves in with opposite sex friends without having to actually do anything themselves. Innocent banter with a married male friend can be satisfying to the ego yet completely devoid of any inevitability. This happened a lot to me while I was married. Some would push the limits a bit physically to see if they could get a 'rise' out of me. Of course, all under the auspices of being 'friends'.

 

Can any generalities be inferred? I doubt it. I'm sharing what I've personally observed.

[xxoo]

You don't have any single male friends?

 

Or are you not as interested in the single men?

 

Sometimes people are "single for a reason"--and I understand that.

 

But sometimes I wonder if it is easier to develop attraction to someone not available, either because they are demonstrating their good-partner qualities (does not apply if they treat their wives and gfs poorly), or because they have less guard up (not mate shopping, so they are freer to be authentic than they might be if they were single).

 

Oh, and I love the Indigo Girls!

[zengirl]

I have male and female friends, and I don't really see having male friends as being all that different than female friends (I suppose there are a few topics, like sex, I might tread a little easier on with my male friends, but I'm a pretty naturally discreet person about those matters anyway). They are just people who I feel platonic affection for, want to hang out with, and value in my life.

 

Personally, I don't judge friends by their relationship style (with me or others). If someone really, truly has bad character, I will probably not be friends with them, but there are people who are not good boyfriends or girlfriends, who I'd never set up with another friend, who are very surely the "types" I always knew better than to go out with, and it doesn't impact whether I'd be friends with the person. Sure, if someone was abusive or cruel to their mate, I doubt I'd want to be friends with them --- because they wouldn't be the sort of person I'd want to know --- but plenty of guys and girls are needless drama/hassle/commitmentphobes/whatever and still make excellent, loyal, caring friends and productive members of society. Who you are in a relationship is a very small slice of the person in many cases.

 

I will say that any male friends I have who are in relationships, I am also friendly with (and, over time, have become fairly good friends with, in many cases) their SOs, just as I hope most of my friends (male and female) are/will become friends with hubby. I always treat a couple (a serious couple) like a unit. That does not apply, of course, to someone the person has just started dating---though I'm always nice; they just aren't quite a unit yet until they put that idea out there.

 

I suppose my friends meet my "needs" and I meet theirs, and I certainly think you shouldn't look to an SO for all your social needs (bad idea, IMO!) but I never really think about it that way. I'm not friends with people so they can help me out or I can ask for advice -- though I do both and give both help and advice as well. I'm friends with people because I genuinely enjoy them. They're my support system, yes, and I'm theirs, but that's just something that naturally develops since humankind craves community. I cannot imagine actually analyzing it.

 

I do agree with the OP that I have always been more comfortable around men who have legitimate female friends (and even more so if they have legitimate comfort around or -- better yet -- friendships with gay men, too). Which is not to say a guy who just hangs out with straight guys is 'bad' necessarily, but if he insists those are the only people he can legitimately be friends with, I am suspicious of him. Hubby has a wide array of friends, male and female, gay and straight, single and coupled, as do I.

[sid3]

I agree that generally men that have female friends are more likely to be better relationship material. I think one of the reasons why is because they learn to understand women better a little better. Although you inserted the word *most* in your post, you went on to bash pretty much the entire male gender. Earning potential and dick size insecurities? Actually that whole paragraph implies just how bitter you have become if that is truly how you view the majority of men. You must see your male friends through rose colored lens knowing the women they are romantically involved with are basically victims as well.

[RedRobin]

Yes, I realize that having male friends has the potential to be destructive if it is only one way. Destructive to the man who thinks he is building something leading to something romantic. Destructive to the woman, who, perhaps has commitment issues herself (me included).

 

I don't participate in situations where I'm being used as a 'tool' against his SO. Not the least because I don't need that reputation.

 

It is my observation too, that the rules change for some men after they become romantically involved with a woman. She ceases being able to be self-sufficient and intelligent, and must stomp down any misdirected curiosity and what some would consider manly-man abilities so that her guy can feel 'needed'. WTF??

[RedRobin]

I agree that generally men that have female friends are more likely to be better relationship material. I think one of the reasons why is because they learn to understand women better a little better. Although you inserted the word *most* in your post, you went on to bash pretty much the entire male gender. Earning potential and dick size insecurities? Actually that whole paragraph implies just how bitter you have become if that is truly how you view the majority of men. You must see your male friends through rose colored lens knowing the women they are romantically involved with are basically victims as well.

 

Yea, I'm annoyed today. Sorry. I shouldn't have said 'most'. I have no clue what most men are like. Obviously, I can't possibly get to know the millions upon millions of men in the world. Will say though, I've probably encountered hundreds in a fairly close way over my life. Not as love interests mind you. Just through my job.

 

I hear it all from my male friends. Sometimes it's like a bad day at LS. Most of the time, they are decent folk.

 

It just pisses me off to hear them talk. Especially when I know their GF's. Some of them are just are so unappreciative of their GF's/wives. Of course, I've been in the GF's shoes. Sometimes literally. I tell them to shut the F up and pick up your socks. Is it gonna kill you? Sheesh.

 

The funny thing is, they usually do. Then come back and thank me later.

[xxoo]

It just pisses me off to hear them talk. Especially when I know their GF's. Some of them are just are so unappreciative of their GF's/wives. Of course, I've been in the GF's shoes. Sometimes literally. I tell them to shut the F up and pick up your socks. Is it gonna kill you? Sheesh.

 

Women do this, too!

 

A lot of people--men and women--start to take their partner for granted after a while. It is sadly common, but in no way unique to men.

[RedRobin]

I'm not friends with people so they can help me out or I can ask for advice -- though I do both and give both help and advice as well. I'm friends with people because I genuinely enjoy them. They're my support system, yes, and I'm theirs, but that's just something that naturally develops since humankind craves community. I cannot imagine actually analyzing it. .

 

I analyze everything. All of my friends say so. That I think too much.

[RedRobin]

Women do this, too!

 

A lot of people--men and women--start to take their partner for granted after a while. It is sadly common, but in no way unique to men.

 

okay, okay. I'll go get myself out of my funk now.

 

Sorry guys!

[sid3]

Thought it pretty much sounded like a rant. It's good to vent once in awhile. I'd imagine their girlfriends/wives are having similar conversations at their work as well. People do love to complain.

[jobaba]

I generally agree.

 

Some of my best friends are females and at least one is a female that has rejected me hard in the past.

 

I find it funny when people say they don't want any friends of the opposite sex. You're really missing out on a dynamic that sometimes you can't get with your bros or hos.

 

Just my take though...

[jobaba]

If they are such great guys, why don't you date one of them?

 

In the case of my good female friends...

 

-One has rejected me before.

 

-One I get along with great but has very annoying habits and mannerisms that make me know a relationship/living with her would be impossible.

 

-One is married to my best friend and if I ever got with her, I'm pretty sure I'd have to just kill myself then and there. No joke...

[RedRobin]

Thanks sid3... yes, the weather is nice and it is a slow week. I'm just bummed.

 

I should be thankful for all of these great friends. And I am.

 

Just get lonely sometimes...

 

xxoo,

 

To answer your other question...

 

yes, I do have single male friends. Some are waay too young for me, two I'm attracted to but I have accepted they aren't into me and I'm sincerely happy for their friendship (no orbiting here!), and the third... well, I'm working on him.

 

I honestly can't tell if he's interested in me or not. He's pretty shy. I have my moments where I just want to throw him over my shoulder and have my way with him. I joked around one day that I was going to do that and he got a big smile on his face. Trouble is, I'd want him to do the same thing to me occasionally. I'd feel wierd being the initiator all of the time. I sense that is how it would be with him. I'm thinking he's just not that into me. *shrug*.

[joystickd]

I don't have any female friends and thats because the times I have tried it have been horrible. I had one where it started as friends and then she became interested in me so i tried it and when i started really feeling something for her she wanted to be friends again. i think she just wanted me as an orbiter. Then when I moved on she ruined that relationship. I eventually got pissed and told her she was dead to me. I have had friends that were with women that had male friends that caused a lot of problem in their relationship and when they talked about it the woman said he was jealous or insecure. I have never seen a positive male female platonic friendship.

 

I even look at the OP here on some level she had turned these guys into surrogate boyfriends.

[RedRobin]

I even look at the OP here on some level she had turned these guys into surrogate boyfriends.

 

How are the examples I've given surrogate boyfriends?

 

I do admit that my friends (both male and female) have become 'surrogates' for a 'relationship'... but what am I supposed to do? Not have any friends?

 

When I see so many men just having relationships so they can get sex, but offer little or nothing in terms of emotional content... yea, I can do without those. Especially since I don't want kids and I make my own money.

[joystickd]

How are the examples I've given surrogate boyfriends?

 

I do admit that my friends (both male and female) have become 'surrogates' for a 'relationship'... but what am I supposed to do? Not have any friends?

 

When I see so many men just having relationships so they can get sex, but offer little or nothing in terms of emotional content... yea, I can do without those. Especially since I don't want kids and I make my own money.

You mention it satisfying your emotional needs. When you mention they treat you better than their girlfriends or wives that kind of comes off as you thinking you are more important than their SO. Those two things make it seem like a surrogate boyfriend and the premise of this thread. If they had not been said it would have been cool. I'm not saying not have any friends but there is a difference between friendship and a substitute for something missing in your life

Edited March 13, 2012 by joystickd