Debster Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 You know I am really starting to get sick of these OW posts. Not because of the OW status but because I am so sick of telling women that they deserve and should demand more. Shouldn't they be telling themself that? I don't understand. Would someone please explain to me why OW: - Are ok with being #2, or #3, or even #4, etc.? - Don't feel they are worthy of being #1? - Feel they have a right to try to interfere in someone else's marriage? - Feel they are incapable of controlling their own actions - afterall if we can potty-train kids, why can't an adult learn to keep their pants on when it is inappropriate? - Think "love" is an excuse to do something to hurt others? - Don't understand that to love also means doing what is best for them - and by this I don't mean their favourite position - I mean keeping away from a married man they care about and help them stay faithful to their vows/wife/family? - Don't get that it is very hard for most women to separate emotions from sex? - Don't get that sex without emotions - is not the best sex. IMO, there is nothing like sex when it is between two passionate lovers who are in love - Married OW just don't get out of their marriage - do you really think the kids won't pick up on the lack of love and the cheating? That you are not teaching them bad views on marriage and relationships and how to treat others? - Women who were cheated on are willing to be the OW? - Believe the lies and crap that these men spout out of their mouths? - Believe that they are their MM's true soul mate but yet they won't leave their wife? - Believe that they are staying 'just for the kids' - Believe that they are not sleeping with their wives. - Have such low self-esteem and self-respect that they would be an OW? - Don't have the inner strength to know that what they are doing is WRONG and the morals to stop it - Complain about the man being a liar, idiot, etc. but still stay with him? - Don't put their energies into finding a single male who can give them 100%? - Ask for advice when they have no intention of following it? - Sing the 'poor me' song but don't do anything to change it? Is anyone out there listening??? Have any of my posts or any other posters made an impact? If so, please post. Let's dedicate this thread to success stories of OW who did get out. Please give me some faith that Loveshack can actually help women improve their situation rather than turn into a bi&chfes& and pity posts. Sorry for the vent, but it is so frustrating to see the same kind of stories over and over again with the same sob stories and feel like NOTHING CHANGES.
shamen Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 Wow Debster! It would indeed be nice to dedicate a post to the OW who indeed left their MM (or the OM who left their MW). Maybe, however, it should be done under a more positive one. Just a thought. For example, "Success stories for OW who left their MM," or something like that. I know that someone a while back posted one that said something like, "Happy End," or "Success stories for the OW." Ouch. Again, just a thought. If you've read any of my posts in the OW categories, you know that I too have been trying to help some people get out of these destructive (for everyone involved) relationships. Not as long as you have, mind you, but since I've joined.
Mr Spock Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 It's human nature Debster. Reading your post made me very, very sad. On top of the sadness I already feel. I LOVE this guy. I wish I didn't. I wish he never had problems with his wife. I wish that he'd told me politely but firmly NO when I hit on him when I was inebriated at a party. I wish he'd never came home with me, or called me the next day. I wish I knew then what I do know. I don't really think of any of those things that you mentioned-I just wish he felt for me a fraction of what I do for him. It's hell.
Author Debster Posted June 9, 2004 Author Posted June 9, 2004 Shamen, I would love to post it under a more positive heading, but, as you can probably tell, that was not my frame of mind at the time. Plus, in my experience the posts with the 'happy' title rarely get read. It's like they don't want happiness shoved in their faces when they are going through crap. Hopefully enough people know who I am and know my posts that they will be intrigued enough by the title to read it. Mr. Spock, Au contraire, it is NOT human nature. What it is, is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Sorry if it made you sad - but on the other hand - I find that encouraging. Maybe it will be the so-called kick in the pants you need. I hope so. Wishing rarely makes things happen. Actions do. As for your comment that you never thought those things and just wish that he cared a fraction of what you care for him, I suggest you re-read (dang, I knew I should have numbered them - pretend they were numbered) #1, #2, #6 and #s 15 - 20. Yes it may be hell. But you have the ability to climb out of hell - if you want. I'd also like to add to my list that: OW should realize that Men CAN more easily separate emotions from sex.
VivianLee Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 Debster, you and I actually agree most of the time BUT be very careful how you look at people or present how you feel about things...because as an imperfect human, you never know where you may be a year from now. I wouldn't even let myself think of having sex with another man for 15 of the 17 years I've been married. I wouldn't let myself commit adultery in my heart much less for real. My daughter's needs were more important to me than anything I needed, I would have never put myself before her or knowingly do something that would hurt her. When my husband confessed he was having an affair, we were separated for 5 months. I was constantly asked out and hit on but I never gave in. About a year after he and I got back together and some things were happening...something happened to me and I liked the flirting and liked the being hit on by other men. I finally got into an affair. I did to my husband and someone else (MM's wife and child) what I had had done to me. Before then, I would have written the very same thread you have written. Life had a way of knocking me on my self-righteous rear! I am humbled by my wrong-doing. I am shocked at what I can be and have been. I'll tell you something else, NEVER relax when it comes to your strengths...that's the place you will get tempted and tested the most because you don't keep a focus on them as much as you do your weaknesses... As I said before, the posts you post are almost always something I agree with. You and I think alot alike BUT is the thread really for questions you want answered or maybe you are showing how holier and better you are than the losers on here that have failed in their marriages?? Maybe you don't even realize you are doing it but that's what I see in this thread...not questions but just showing a superior attitude... The Messenger has been shot at!
kechara Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 Debster, You are always honest without being mean, and some of us appreciate that. It has certainly kept me from calling him for the last 3 weeks and has strengthened my resolve to never get myself in a situation like this again. Plus, your pointing out the "patterns" that exist in these relationships has helped to shatter the bubble that my relationship existed in. When you are in a secretive relationship where you have limited contact with the other person, they can BE whomever they think you want them to be. I thought he was the most amazing person in the world; you have opened my eyes to see there are a million like him. And, you, and the other well-meaning people like you, have helped me to see there about 200 million who aren't like him, who ARE single, who can give me 100%. Now, once I get past my pain, guilt and shame for this one, I'll be ready to start seeking out those 200 million. Don't give up, and thank you so much for all of the time you spend trying to empower your Sisters.
kechara Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 I think I'm going to print out your post and keep it in my purse. Maybe if I read it over and over again like a mantra, I won't forget these lessons.
istilllovehim Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 Damn right Debster... I am right here. Success Story #1. Life is much better when I have no crazy **** to deal with... Lets have a big cheer for me! And thank you Debster for staying right in there for me. Thanks, Istilllovehimbuthavemylifebacknow. Nice new name
Author Debster Posted June 10, 2004 Author Posted June 10, 2004 Kechara, istilllovehimbuthavemylifeback, I am so happy for you Kechara and istilllovehimbuthavemylifeback (love the new name!) I admit, I was at the end of my rope yesterday but your posts give me hope! Congratulations - it must have been a rough ride and rollercoaster, but I am so glad you made it! Stay strong and believe you deserve better. VivianLee, I'll admit, part of your post confused me. It seems like you were warning me that you can never tell what the future might hold and that I sounded self-righteous but than you add: I'll tell you something else, NEVER relax when it comes to your strengths...that's the place you will get tempted and tested the most because you don't keep a focus on them as much as you do your weaknesses... I agree, you never can tell what the future holds, but based on your values, strengths and inner core you can control your destiny to some degree. So what I will take from your post is the fact that I should NEVER relax when it comes to my strengths and values. In which case, it makes me feel great that I had enough belief in my values to write the post - even though I might get shot at for it! As I said before, the posts you post are almost always something I agree with. You and I think alot alike BUT is the thread really for questions you want answered or maybe you are showing how holier and better you are than the losers on here that have failed in their marriages?? Maybe you don't even realize you are doing it but that's what I see in this thread...not questions but just showing a superior attitude... No the post was not about answering questions, so to speak. It was more, I guess, a tongue in cheek way of showing that most OW think their situation is so different, when really most of them share the same issues that got them involved in the mess in the first place. It was me being frustrated at seeing the same posts time and time again and hearing the same excuses time and time again. I guess, I was hoping that it might strike a chord with someone. I also wrote this: Is anyone out there listening??? Have any of my posts or any other posters made an impact? If so, please post. Let's dedicate this thread to success stories of OW who did get out. Which I guess was the real reason for my thread. Mainly because I was at the point where I was ready to give up and stop responding to posts from OW because I felt like I was banging my head against a brick wall and realizing that you can't give someone the strength and desire to change - they need to want that for themselves. As for if I sound holier than though or appear to have a superior attitude - that is your opinion and you have a right to that. I happen to disagree. I know that what I wrote came from caring about some posters and being completely frustrated at reading about all these capable women being completely fooled by a lieing, cheating, male. It just got to me. A moment of weakness that I hope will have an effect that might make an OW second guess their actions.
EnigmaXOXO Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 Debster writes: I agree, you never can tell what the future holds, but based on your values, strengths and inner core you can control your destiny to some degree. So what I will take from your post is the fact that I should NEVER relax when it comes to my strengths and values. This does not make you self-righteous or “holier than thou.” It makes you strong and self-assured. You have learned through your own hard lessons that happiness and peace of mind is not subject to luck; but rather is achieved through effort, a little resilience, some perseverance, and the ability to make rational and careful choices (even when they are difficult). Happiness is not reserved only for those who are deemed “self-righteous” and somehow above everyone else. Only someone who lacks confidence and self esteem would ever consider themselves belittled by another person’s inner-strength. Rather, happiness is a reward that can be achieved by EVERYONE. And those who have learned the secret are sometimes overwhelmed with the desire to pass that gift (those acquired wisdoms) onto those who haven’t. As much as we would like everyone to be happy and learn the strategies to inner joy, people just get “stuck” in their own muck sometimes, Debster. And no matter how hard we try to yank them to the surface (even forcibly), some people have gotten to that dark place in their life where they’ve just given up kicking. And unless someone genuinely WANTS help … you will eventually have no choice but to let go before getting sucked in yourself. It’s sad. But it’s a reality. Even the professionals can’t save everyone. But the secret is to not let other people’s misery steal your joy or make you feel guilty for having found it. After all, you EARNED it, fair and square! Just be happy that you are happy, and use the tragic stories you read on this forum as a constant reminder of where you might be…or might end up…should you slip up and forget everything that life’s taught you. Smart people learn from their mistakes. Smarter people learn from other people’s mistakes. …Wish I could remember where I heard that!
leilab Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 I have to tell you that without LS I am not sure where I would have turned to. It was not helpful to me at the beginning because when I most needed support, I felt that I was totally getting slammed for what I was doing. Not that I did not need to see reality, but I was in so much pain that it caused me more pain. Now that it has been 3 months since my breakup with MM, I find that LS has been very helpful in my long haul back to reality, sanity and moving on with my life. It has been an extremely difficult time in my life, but reading posts from OW on LS has helped me tremendously in understanding that I am not alone and that my feelings about my marriage and my whole relationship with my MM. And that what my MM was telling me was not unique. In fact, my relationship with him was very much like many of the OW. I have drawn from the experience and posts of many of the OW that have survived and that are moving on with their life. My thanks to everyone that is helping me because only those of us that have been in that situation can understand what we are going through. The reality is that the story of a OW usually does not receive any sympathy. I cannot say that I am a success or failure, but I am starting to see life again and am finding my way of this black hole that I have been trapped in.
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