zengirl Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Well, actually SD. We don't know if the person the OP saw was a man, really. We know literally nothing about whomever it was. And I would presume a transgendered person (male to female) who was interested in men would seek straight men. Gay men wouldn't want a female partner, and transgendered people generally identify as the gender they have become/are becoming.
somedude81 Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Well, actually SD. We don't know if the person the OP saw was a man, really. We know literally nothing about whomever it was. I'm willing to say that the OP can tell the difference between a woman and a man wearing a wig. Though maybe the person could be TG/TS and then everything would be more murky. And I would presume a transgendered person (male to female) who was interested in men would seek straight men. Gay men wouldn't want a female partner, and transgendered people generally identify as the gender they have become/are becoming. There is nothing wrong at all. Though I adamantly believe that a TG person of either sex needs to disclose that they are TG when on a dating site or similar situation.
Diamonds&Rust Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 D&R, However, do you not think that it is something you should share with a potentially serious partner Of course I do. I think trust and self-disclosure is a vital feature of a serious relationship. A discussion of the appropriate conduct in a serious relationship seems like a red herring when compared with the original complaint, namely that people have a right to know someone's anatomy at birth, before they even meet. since transgender impacts fertility (there would be none) and requires ongoing hormonal treatments generally, that alone would be a reason, Again, those are great reasons to talk about it in a serious relationship. They're not true of all transsexuals, however, nor are they things that people have a right to know before even meeting someone. Only interjecting because I'm truly curious about your thoughts on it, from that perspective. For instance, I always shared the more important parts of myself, even if controversial (the fiance I had that died, the fact that I've been on and off anti-anxiety meds all my life, etc, being two of the more controversial) fairly early on (pre-sex). I find that important, as someone who's seeking an open, honest, monogamous relationship. It's great that you're so open, but I guess what I'm saying is that you're not required to disclose your history with psychiatric medicine or history of significant deaths on your dating profile. Is it something you think someone can, with honesty and integrity, keep from a partner they marry? No. If they're lucky enough to live in a place that allows them to marry, I'd hope that trust and disclosure were features of their partnership. As for the meaning of the thread, a man has no business trying to pass himself off as a woman so he can try and pick up straight men. There seems to be an important distinction between "having no business" and it being the business of other people. That's why I'm insisting that all this serious relationship talk is a red herring, not because it's not a relevant issue in a given person's life, but because the public has no right to know about something others may have no interest in understanding.
betterdeal Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 I have to say, I'm not gay, but my boyfriend is. "Lola"- The Kinks - YouTube 2
Disenchantedly Yours Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Im pissy? If anything you came off pissy in your most recent posts. Especially in the one directed at me. You started the post off by yelling your first two words, which then set the tone for your reply. Then you misinterpreted what I was trying to do with my post. That explains why I responded the way I did. My apologies I guess. Who is A O btw? Some of my opinions on this subject are pretty strong. I got pissed that Diamond is trying to present me a certain false way. And no, I did not start off my post yelling my first two words. However, yes, my posts are passionate sometimes. And yes, I didn't , and still don't, understand what you are trying to do with your post. No worries. We are cool. Sometimes you and me agree. Sometimes we don't. A O is a poster that crops up once in a while that has issues with me and enjoys arguing with me. I believe Diamond is this poster under a different name. 1
Diamonds&Rust Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 A O is a poster that crops up once in a while that has issues with me and enjoys arguing with me. I believe Diamond is this poster under a different name. I don't remember that person. I've taken a vacation from LS for several years, longer than you've been here. I've had two other screen names, but none with those initials. Regardless, my issue is of course with your position and not with you personally. You're just some guy with a computer, I don't know you at all. I don't forgive ignorance, but I don't judge you personally either. The beliefs you expressed about transsexuals, though not hateful, are ignorant, and I don't feel the need to coddle you towards the light. Again, I don't know you. But the kinds of things you're saying don't go unchallenged, especially among those sensitive to the Queer experience in this backwards country. In short, I don't care about you enough to enjoy arguing with you. I just won't give the illusion of consensus on ignorant ideas.
zengirl Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 Of course I do. I think trust and self-disclosure is a vital feature of a serious relationship. A discussion of the appropriate conduct in a serious relationship seems like a red herring when compared with the original complaint, namely that people have a right to know someone's anatomy at birth, before they even meet. Okay, that answers my question. I certainly understand the distinction between disclosing it on a dating profile and as you get to know the person. I wasn't trying to introduce a red herring---just to get clarity on your view.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted March 15, 2012 Posted March 15, 2012 I don't remember that person. I've taken a vacation from LS for several years, longer than you've been here. I've had two other screen names, but none with those initials. Regardless, my issue is of course with your position and not with you personally. You're just some guy with a computer, I don't know you at all. I don't forgive ignorance, but I don't judge you personally either. The beliefs you expressed about transsexuals, though not hateful, are ignorant, and I don't feel the need to coddle you towards the light. Again, I don't know you. But the kinds of things you're saying don't go unchallenged, especially among those sensitive to the Queer experience in this backwards country. In short, I don't care about you enough to enjoy arguing with you. I just won't give the illusion of consensus on ignorant ideas. I am positive that I have been posting here just as much, if not longer, then yourself Diamond. I did not always have the same screen name. You prattle on about how my position is "ignorant" yet you have not yet been able to correctly state anything I actually think or feel on the topic. You've certainly dictated and acted like it was "truth" but it is not done with any honesty or intrigrity on your part. I find you manipulative and while you becry "ignorant" to other people, I can't help but think you need to look at yourself. My position from the beginning was that everyone deserves respect. And that what the OP did was wrong. My position is also that someone that is infact transsexual, should be honest and proud of who they are regardless of society standards and express themselves, as who they are, to potential mates. This is infact, the only way people will come to accept transsexuals as well. They need to represent for who they are and be honest about it. This is clearly not easy. This I understand. However, I believe it's neccesariy to get to a place in the world where they will be accepted more freely. A few years ago when polled if those in same gender relationships should be able to "marry", less people were accepting of it then they are today. It's because people in same gender relationships opennly faught for their rights, that the opinion of hte general public changed. And transexuals need to ask for the same rights. And to do that means to be hoenst about who they are. It's difficult and an up hill battle but important. So that don't do what PhillyDude did to this person. So don't sit behind your computer and tell me how "ignorant" I am just because we do not agree. You are more then welcome to disagree with me. It's when you take cheap shots and make false claims about what I do or don't think while maintaining how "ignorant" I am that I take issue. 1
Diamonds&Rust Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 I am positive that I have been posting here just as much, if not longer, then yourself Diamond. I did not always have the same screen name. I first came here near the end of December 2003. I don't care about you enough to have a vendetta against you. You prattle on about how my position is "ignorant" yet you have not yet been able to correctly state anything I actually think or feel on the topic. We both agree that I don't have magical powers that allow me to know your inner thoughts and feelings. When I say "your position," I mean the beliefs and ideas you're posting on this thread right here. That you don't like what I'm saying is not evidence that I'm misreading you. My position from the beginning was that everyone deserves respect. Your position, however, is not inherently respectful. Essentially, even though you are being kind about it, you're putting the public's right to know over a person's right to privacy. My position is also that someone that is infact transsexual, should be honest and proud of who they are regardless of society standards and express themselves, as who they are, to potential mates. This is infact, the only way people will come to accept transsexuals as well. They need to represent for who they are and be honest about it. This is clearly not easy. This I understand. However, I believe it's neccesariy to get to a place in the world where they will be accepted more freely. There are plenty of people involved with the HRC who would agree with you. On the other hand, there are plenty of transsexuals who would agree with me that this position is ignorant. They may be nicer about it than I have been, but that's where we stand. So don't sit behind your computer and tell me how "ignorant" I am just because we do not agree. You are more then welcome to disagree with me. It's when you take cheap shots and make false claims about what I do or don't think while maintaining how "ignorant" I am that I take issue. First, I'm not sure how else to access this site except behind my computer. When I sit in front of the computer, I can't see the screen or type. I don't have a fancy smartphone. I'm sorry if it bothers you that I am behind a computer. I'm not saying you're hateful. You probably have good intentions. But your position is still ignorant. I think it's important to point that out not to hurt your feelings but so that people understand not everyone has those same beliefs about transsexuals. You're mistaken if you're arguing that I misunderstand your posts. Your words are really clear.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 We are so best friends. Like Blanche and Blair from Golden Girls.
fortyninethousand322 Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 This thread is ridiculous. Yes the OP used the wrong word to describe a man dressing as a woman. The worst thing that can be said of him is that he's ignorant. As for the meaning of the thread, a man has no business trying to pass himself off as a woman so he can try and pick up straight men. That's the same thing as a woman cutting her hair short and trying to pretend that she's a man so she can pick up straight girls. The thread is ridiculous because instead of keeping his thoughts to himself, Phillydude went and sent a stupid, disrespectful message to someone. I think the idea of Transexuality or whatever we're calling the concept, is totally gross and weird. And I would never date someone who was born a male but decided to become female. It's just not for me, not in a million years. But at least I know to leave well enough alone.
somedude81 Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 The thread is ridiculous because instead of keeping his thoughts to himself, Phillydude went and sent a stupid, disrespectful message to someone. I think the idea of Transexuality or whatever we're calling the concept, is totally gross and weird. And I would never date someone who was born a male but decided to become female. It's just not for me, not in a million years. But at least I know to leave well enough alone. Yeah, what he did was rude and I overlooked that part. And I agree with you about not dating a woman who was born a man.
Taramere Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 But why are they on a dating site when it's a section for them on craiglist? As a guy when I'm browsing I don't want to see that mess a) as others have said, you don't know whether she was transgendered or just a woman who had a somewhat masculine appearance. b) If she were transgendered, and there is a separate section for transgendered people, then it's a valid point that she should use it. Regardless, the issue people have is with you sending her the email you sent. As others have said, the term "political correctness" is often just a way of putting negative spin on social expectations that people will behave in a way that's reasonably respectful and considerate of others. A sneering term people use when they want to be allowed to bully or harass others with impunity. I would see annoying political correctness as being the type where certain jokes and conversational topics are outlawed. I don't like that kind of censorship. However, this wasn't a case of you making a joke or raising a sensitive topic for genuine discussion. It was a case of you attacking somebody who may or may not have been transgendered...but was obviously looking for love, which every person has a right to do without being hassled for it.
Author PhillyDude Posted March 18, 2012 Author Posted March 18, 2012 He is well known on another forum as well, having posted for more than 5 years as TVandSportsGuy, but sadly, he is not a troll. These are his real thoughts and feelings. I have even seen his profile on OKC and he is genuine, unbelieveable as it may seem. And the fact that you follow me from one site to another means you are a loser.
Author PhillyDude Posted March 18, 2012 Author Posted March 18, 2012 a) as others have said, you don't know whether she was transgendered or just a woman who had a somewhat masculine appearance. b) If she were transgendered, and there is a separate section for transgendered people, then it's a valid point that she should use it. Regardless, the issue people have is with you sending her the email you sent. As others have said, the term "political correctness" is often just a way of putting negative spin on social expectations that people will behave in a way that's reasonably respectful and considerate of others. A sneering term people use when they want to be allowed to bully or harass others with impunity. I would see annoying political correctness as being the type where certain jokes and conversational topics are outlawed. I don't like that kind of censorship. However, this wasn't a case of you making a joke or raising a sensitive topic for genuine discussion. It was a case of you attacking somebody who may or may not have been transgendered...but was obviously looking for love, which every person has a right to do without being hassled for it. It was a man trying to pretend he was a woman and when I called him out on it the profile was deleted. The End
Author PhillyDude Posted March 19, 2012 Author Posted March 19, 2012 LOL, I have been here a bit longer than you. When you first started posting it was obvious who you were. Your bizarre issues transcend the artificial borders of the Internet. Well who are you on CD? Identify yourself or stop talking to me before I report you for harassment.
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