Author TheSingleGuy Posted March 10, 2012 Author Posted March 10, 2012 ++++What is better than having one cock that appreciates them? You guessed it....a bunch of cocks....aka..."just a friend". She might not have sex with him (till one night when you argue with her and she goes running/crying to one of her other cocks and drinks a bit too much alcohol), but she probably gets off on knowing he wants her and will string him along.++++ Bingo. A other guy who "gets it". Of course, the women who've contributed to this thread ALL continue to defend their position. But, at least a few of us men...we KNOW what's really going on. All the women are deceitful liars. Trust a believe, fellas, they know what they're doing. If a woman wants a ring from me, she's got a chance. Ultimately, I think that's what I want. But if the phone is chirping constantly, testing my insecurities, she's gonna get ****ed and dumped. Don't test me!
RedRobin Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 Take a minute to think of your male friends and tell me that none of them would sleep with you given the chance. I already did, SD. The only one I know of who fits the description above is a 60 something guy who is trying to plow every willing female above the age of 21. He's kind of gross in that respect. Yea, he's probably the only 'orbiter' I can think of... and sometimes I avoid him because I'm tired of getting my leg humped. BUT, I'm not dating anyone and he is not dating anyone. I don't pump him for cash. We split everything when we go out. Actually, I at least try to split the bill with everyone I go out with. Date or not. That's just part of my belief system. The rest of my friends just view me as the gender neutral lab thing, or whatever. They don't flirt or talk/joke about sexual things. Every once in awhile, they might ask me a question from a woman's perspective (much like they do here).... I usually end up taking the woman's side I don't tolerate frenemies of either gender. The ones who are bitter from a past relationship and always talking down your BF/GF. I don't do that. The girlfriends/wives of my male friends usually like me alot. And if I wasn't friends with them before, I usually become friends with them too... Maybe I'm just an outlier. Who knows? I like the feeling of seeing and treating each person as an individual... makes the world alot happier place that way. Life is too short for being chronically suspicious.
RedRobin Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 ++++What is better than having one cock that appreciates them? You guessed it....a bunch of cocks....aka..."just a friend". She might not have sex with him (till one night when you argue with her and she goes running/crying to one of her other cocks and drinks a bit too much alcohol), but she probably gets off on knowing he wants her and will string him along.++++ Bingo. A other guy who "gets it". Of course, the women who've contributed to this thread ALL continue to defend their position. But, at least a few of us men...we KNOW what's really going on. All the women are deceitful liars. Trust a believe, fellas, they know what they're doing. If a woman wants a ring from me, she's got a chance. Ultimately, I think that's what I want. But if the phone is chirping constantly, testing my insecurities, she's gonna get ****ed and dumped. Don't test me! oooo! Don't test you?! Sure, no problemo. No test needed. I know what the grade would be. Do you have any idea how exhausting its going to be constantly defending your turf down the road? Ever thought about learning how to trust someone for a change? Ever heard of the idea... give someone enough rope to... hang themselves? That's what I do. I give someone rope. Then I see what they do with it. Because really, at the end of the day, all we have is our individual integrity. You have your preferences, and that is fine. You can be respectful about it though.. and choose women who don't believe that men and women can be friends. Calling all women liars is just going to make you look like a d*ck though.
Andy_K Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 The rest of my friends just view me as the gender neutral lab thing, or whatever. They don't flirt or talk/joke about sexual things. Just because a guy doesn't flirt with you or talk about anything sexual, doesn't mean he wouldn't sleep with you given half a chance. In fact, 9/10 times the male 'friends' that secretly would sleep with you are exactly the ones who would never bring up anything sexual, because they're the typical nice guys who know they've been friendzoned, they're not willing to do anything to risk the status quo, and they don't want their cover blown.
RedRobin Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Here's the thing. I expect a woman to protect the boundaries of the relationship from her side. I'll do the same on my side. If certain men come too close and show interest in her and she lets him do that repeatedly and even invites him to do that, then that's a red flag in my opinion. There's a point where you as a boyfriend can say: "You're acting weird, I don't understand why you hang out with all these male friends that that have an interest in you beyond friendship, while we're in a relationship together." Male friends of your female SO tend to know that she's in a relationship, so they purposefully disrespect you as a man by trespassing your territory. It is a territorial thing, men are very aware of this sort of thing. If your SO allows other men to do this, then she indirectly disrespects you and the relationship. Except if your SO is considerate and respects you and the relationship, then she'll set a boundary on her side of the relationship. Up to here and no further. If she doesn't, then that will damage the relationship eventually. This makes alot of sense, and is how I and my male friends tend to interact. When I start dating someone, I tell them the kinds of things that would make me uncomfortable with a woman friend and I'm open to hearing his concerns as well. The mere fact that a man has female friends has never bothered me. I've never had a problem with that. I've had more problems with men who don't have female friends, to be honest. It's like they don't really understand the difference between passing attraction and love. I also find that men who don't have female friends are somewhat insecure in their manhood. I'd like to think that the man I'm with has options he's choosing not to exercise too. And can even be friends with them. Not because he or she is orbiting... but because they both realize that it would never work as a relationship. Not everyone is out to plug a hole or get plugged ya know. I would argue that these kinds of discussions are really helpful for helping people navigate the inevitable passing attractions that would happen during a very long relationship as you take your walk of life together. Other people will come and go in your life, and being able to talk about it as a couple without being a paranoid, thought policeman (or woman) makes things a whole lot saner. Edited March 10, 2012 by RedRobin
Author TheSingleGuy Posted March 10, 2012 Author Posted March 10, 2012 See, there you go. Men who don't have female friends are insecure. The women are SOoooo defensive of their new right to have male friends. One thing I've learned about women, is, they rarely come clean on **** they've done and they rarely apologize for their ****ty behavior. The thing is, the male friend, that women communicate with regularly, is a new thing in the history of humanity. Our moms and grandmas didn't have male friends. What sparked the change? Some will say it was women entering the workforce. But that isn't true. The male "friend" truly arrived on the scene in the late 90's, when the cell phone became common place. Think about it and you'll realize this absolute truth. For the first time in history, women had a way to communicate privately. It's the secrecy that brought about the male friend, and, is inherently not something I trust.
RedRobin Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 See, there you go. Men who don't have female friends are insecure. The women are SOoooo defensive of their new right to have male friends. One thing I've learned about women, is, they rarely come clean on **** they've done and they rarely apologize for their ****ty behavior. The thing is, the male friend, that women communicate with regularly, is a new thing in the history of humanity. Our moms and grandmas didn't have male friends. What sparked the change? Some will say it was women entering the workforce. But that isn't true. The male "friend" truly arrived on the scene in the late 90's, when the cell phone became common place. Think about it and you'll realize this absolute truth. For the first time in history, women had a way to communicate privately. It's the secrecy that brought about the male friend, and, is inherently not something I trust. oh, ok... back up to your original post then. The cellphone works exactly the same for both men and women. Sorry we haven't developed a button that allows only men to use them. although, I might like to be the engineer that helps with the male-gender sensing device. I'll be the one interviewing possible candidates for the trials we'd need to do as well. ha ha. It would work like the finger print sensor. Except, you have to swipe your dick on the front to get the screen to activate. oh, wait... eww! that means you'd have to then put that same screen up to your head... giving new relevance to the word dick-head. Not just a noun anymore! It is a verb. lol In any case, you are going to have a very hard time getting men and women in developing countries to put down a technology that allows them to communicate with the outside world without the need for expensive landlines. I suspect you were born in the 1990's and so, for some bizarre reason, have now associated cellphone technology with changing demographics. Very strange correlation. Just don't see it.
irc333 Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 I've had more problems with men who don't have female friends, to be honest. It's like they don't really understand the difference between passing attraction and love. I also find that men who don't have female friends are somewhat insecure in their manhood. I'd like to think that the man I'm with has options he's choosing not to exercise too. And can even be friends with them. Not because he or she is orbiting... but because they both realize that it would never work as a relationship. Not sure this would be entirely accurate. But I do have some female friends, of course, good friends of both sexes are hard to come by these days. But, with some of the female friends I had in the past, our friendships tyically fizzled out once they got a signficant other, or even better, got married. I had to severe ties with a female friend due to an overly jealous boyfriend that moved in with her. He was shoulder surfing when she was chatting with me on AIM. NEver heard from her after that. Apparently he had a problem with that...they were a couple for a while,b efore he moved in, but apparently he went nuts when he found out we were keeping in touch online. But most of my friendships with women went to the wayside, or they started setting up conditions by which means we'd stay in touch, one woman told me to only email her at her work email. I guess, out of due respect to their sig others, they thought they would make such arrangements.
Author TheSingleGuy Posted March 10, 2012 Author Posted March 10, 2012 RedRobin, I don't know how old you are, but unless you're still in high school, I'll bet you a dollar to your thousand that you have no memories of your mother having male "friends" that she would routinely communicate with and carry on a relationship with. At least not if she was married. It just didn't happen prior to the cell phone. So go on and defend your rights to your male friends and just cross your fingers and hope that you never run across an "insecure" guy like me. I've ripped some women's hearts out of their chests for thier ****ty, manipulative male "friend" behavior. I give them a chance. I do. But they press, I take mental notes, they fall madly in love and then I vanish. And they're left wondering "why?". I would never tell them. It should be common sense. They always go the same approach, too. It's so predictable. First date, they never text anyone. About the time I've slept with her five times or so, she starts indicating exclusivity. Shortly after that, she's texting in my presence. Then, one way or another, she sets her test, and makes me aware that she's texting and talking with male "friends". As I pointed out earlier, in my opening post, there is no winning move for a guy here. So... **** and dump her and move on to the next.
dasein Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 What sparked the change? "Youcanhaveitall" mentality and marketing to the gullible. In contrast, anyone who tells you "youcan'thaveitall" is trying to oppress or exhibiting "hatred." Simple really.
veggirl Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 Honestly, every male "friend" I've had has fked things up by trying to sleep with me. I'm not interested in being friends with guys. It's just awkward and annoying. I have male ACQUAINTENCES, but not FRIENDS. I will see them in group situations and chat etc, but I don't think of someone like that as my *friend*. 2
Author TheSingleGuy Posted March 10, 2012 Author Posted March 10, 2012 Heartofalion, My cousin just went through a very nasty divorce, he is completely damaged by this. His wife got pregnant with another man's baby while she was married to him. This guy was labeled "just a friend" by his wife. That's just it. You NEVER KNOW what's really going on with these male friends. I've had married women give me their contact info right in front of their husbands. I've slept with women who were telling their husbands or boyfriends that I was just a "friend". These women I've dumped, they've heard me say repeatedly that I don't trust Facebook, etc. They know the mindset they're dealing with.
Diamonds&Rust Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 So....guys, how do we handle this??? Search for women who are attracted to misogyny. They do exist. Any and all suggestions appreciated. This seems disingenuous. Don't you think we can spot that? The "means to an end" guy. They are pretty transparent most of the time. I think sometimes (most times) people see what they want to see. I dated a girl who had plenty of means-to-ends friends. I'm not the jealous type, nor am I interested in being a dog trainer, but I did think it was interesting how vehemently she denied the possibility that these men could be attracted to her. She was a very honest person and remained candid about other things that people normally don't disclose. I'm pretty sure it was cognitive dissonance and not manipulation, especially because it didn't offend me that her friends may be attracted to her. Consider the available options: women either have to approach every straight male friendship with an aloof, hyper-aware caution or they have to just blind themselves to it and let the unresolved feelings be "his problem." Neither approach works well for an honest, mutual friendship, but I'm guessing the latter is more popular.
Tybalt Posted March 10, 2012 Posted March 10, 2012 My mother had male friends when I was growing up. My dad had female friends. They met them through their respective jobs. It never seemed like an issue to them, and my parents are still married. Having been formerly married to a serial cheater, I agree that dealings with the opposite sex should be handled with sensitivity and respect toward the SO. For the most part, I think that by not setting up any potentially compromising situations, you're guaranteed not to get into one. That being said, each couple is different and they can set their own boundaries and comfort levels with things. I have a male friend I have known over ten years and I do talk to him fairly regularly. However I make sure that anyone I date meets him very early on and if I am dating someone, I feel it is respectful and appropriate to see my friend with my SO present. It pleases me if they become friends as well. It hasn't been an issue for me thus far. I'd regret having to cut all ties with my friend whenever I had a boyfriend. Obviously both parties have to feel comfortable with whatever the situation may be. My last boyfriend had a female friend he spoke to regularly but I never met her. Him having female friends was definitely not the issue that broke us up though. I get the "orbiter" thing and if a woman is getting some kind of ego stroke through having men she's friends with lusting after her, I agree that's dangerous territory indeed. I daresay if she is insecure enough to seek that, there will be more issues in the relationship than just her male friendships. Above all, I believe in respect and sensitivity toward one's relationship. When I have a boyfriend, I want my man to know he's the one and only for me and that his comfort level is important to me, and vice versa.
RedRobin Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Really. I'm getting rather tired of men trashing other men. You are your own worst enemies. At least the ones talking trash about other men and how irresponsibile they are. See, here I was thinking that men were capable of developing friendships and valuing women as human being... and placing value on things other than sex. But no... to hear you guys talk, men don't have morals, or values. They aren't capable of anything that doesn't involve sticking their dick in something. Really. Think long and hard about the message you all send each other about your essential worthiness and value...and tell me one more time... it's the women who are keeping ya'll down? So, for some of you guys... you seem to think you have two choices in life... be a super macho sh*t head, or a 'nice guy' who can't possibly communicate anything? Wow, that must really suck. Edited March 11, 2012 by RedRobin 4
RedRobin Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 I've ripped some women's hearts out of their chests for thier ****ty, manipulative male "friend" behavior. I give them a chance. I do. But they press, I take mental notes, they fall madly in love and then I vanish. And they're left wondering "why?". I would never tell them. It should be common sense.. Delusions of grandeur much? Why not just find a woman who agrees that men and women can't be friends? Seems alot easier that way. Still not sure what you are talking about in terms of 'manipulation' though. Maybe you are just against the concept of friends in general?
dasein Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 Really. I'm getting rather tired of men trashing other men. So much straw, so little time. It's a fact that many men are total worms in the depths they will stoop to in chasing women. In trashing these types of men, we aren't trashing "men generally." Trying to "slip in the back door" by being the "good friend" is one of the oldest tricks in the book by weak men, and women are well aware of it despite feigning naivete to keep the precious "spice" (male attention) flowing. I've had it interfere with my dating and relationships maybe 100 times in life. The wormy boy finds out that GF and I have plans and maybe the first sleepover, suddenly he is in a "crisis" and needs her help (no one else's help will do lol, and he usually does for her like a handservant so she feels guilty turning him down). Have experienced dozens of variations. All the while he is pouring poison about me into my GF's ear. She loves the attention and the illusion of "Ashley and Rhett." When talking to her GFs, rest assured that she will paint all these pseudo male friends as "men in her life" to her GFs as long as you aren't in earshot. Having experienced that over and over in life is not the same as saying "men can't keep it in their pants." Saying again, guys, when you get exclusive with a new woman, figure out where these lice are and make sure she understands they are to GO immediately, or deny her exclusivity. Women wouldn't put up with one bit of the BS faux friends they expect men to, and what's good for the goose...
RedRobin Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 So much straw, so little time. It's a fact that many men are total worms in the depths they will stoop to in chasing women. In trashing these types of men, we aren't trashing "men generally." Trying to "slip in the back door" by being the "good friend" is one of the oldest tricks in the book by weak men, and women are well aware of it despite feigning naivete to keep the precious "spice" (male attention) flowing. I've had it interfere with my dating and relationships maybe 100 times in life. The wormy boy finds out that GF and I have plans and maybe the first sleepover, suddenly he is in a "crisis" and needs her help (no one else's help will do lol, and he usually does for her like a handservant so she feels guilty turning him down). Have experienced dozens of variations. All the while he is pouring poison about me into my GF's ear. She loves the attention and the illusion of "Ashley and Rhett." When talking to her GFs, rest assured that she will paint all these pseudo male friends as "men in her life" to her GFs as long as you aren't in earshot. Having experienced that over and over in life is not the same as saying "men can't keep it in their pants." Saying again, guys, when you get exclusive with a new woman, figure out where these lice are and make sure she understands they are to GO immediately, or deny her exclusivity. Women wouldn't put up with one bit of the BS faux friends they expect men to, and what's good for the goose... Frenemies come in both genders. There are GF's who talk the new guy down just as bad or worse than any guy friend would. You act like denying a woman exclusivity would be the end of her world. I'd say it is no big deal because you two aren't compatible anyway. Just find a girl who shares your values. No need to be so, well, tense and angry about it...
make me believe Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 In my past, guys that I thought I was friends with have always tried to hook up with me, either by overtly hitting on me or subtly alluding to the fact that they are open to it if I am. And they didn't do this all of the time or anything -- maybe even just one time, like perhaps after a breakup or hinting at things during a particular drunken night at the bar. But it was always awkward and creepy and really turned me off to the idea of being "friends" with guys. (And these weren't awkward, creepy guys overall.) This thread is interesting because it's mostly guys saying that almost all guys want to f*ck their female friends, and girls arguing about it with them. It's like Kaylan's sex thread but reversed. I think the guys know what they are talking about though, and I agree with them that MOST -- not necessarily all, but the majority -- of guys do not have purely platonic feelings for their female friends. Very few men will seek out a friendship with a woman that he has zero attraction to, and no romantic interest in. Honestly, I agree with Samantha from SATC when she said "men are for f*cking [and relationships ], women are for friendship." I do have a couple of male 'friends' in my life who I've known for many, many years, but I only see them occasionally and only in big group outings. We don't keep in contact over the phone, email, etc, and we definitely don't hang out one-on-one. I would find that awkward. My husband is the same way regarding female friends. I guess the key here is to find a mate who shares your opinion on male/female friendships. I would hate it if my husband had a gaggle of female 'friends' that he wanted to have coffee with and talk on the phone with and go to happy hour with. (Plus I believe in pretty strong boundaries and taking steps to actively protect your relationship, especially when married.)
Imajerk17 Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) I have a close female friend who is in a new relationship. We met via a "pickup" situation. It's a real friendship. I'm really happy for her. And I am looking forward to meeting the new guy. BUT the friendship we have is two-sided. I give her the male perspective on things, AND just the same, she is really a female guy-friend of mine. I've met a lot of other women when she and I hung out--just as I would when hanging with my guy friends--and she winged for me. She helped me decorate my place "to lure in the women". And we're just friends. The one time I made a move on her was back when we met, but that didn't work out so no point in going there. We aren't joined at the hip or anything. Boundaries. It's cool... Edited March 11, 2012 by Imajerk17
g450 Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 THIS. It is easy to tell when a guy wants to bang you. No its not. If a woman is reasonably attractive, ALL men want to bang her. Ask any guy here. I dont have female friends. My Fiancee is my best friend and my lover. If I want to talk to a friend I talk to guy friends or family.
g450 Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) I read a book last night where this guy was friend-zoned by a girl for over 10 years. He finally got one thing with regards to seduction completely mastered and the next time he was with her, he slept with her. These male friends have a chance. And every guy on here knows not to trust those male friends. Exactly. We men know how other men think. Women just dont get that. If any of her male friends thought he had even a slight chance he we be all over her. That's the other thing women just dont get. If if she is allowed to have "male friends" then maybe I can have "female friends". Works both ways. But to have opposit sex friends in a marriage or relationship is incredibly disrespectful to a man. If a woman cared that little for me not to respect my boundries then she is not for me. Luckily my woman knows exactly where I stand with that although she tried that friend crap with an ex fb at one time. I found out he was talking to my GF but hiding it and their history together from his Wife. What an A-hole. I asked for him and his Wife to have dinner with me and my girl. Turns out his Wife never knew about any of this because he hid it from her. Never heard from him again. He crawled back under the rock he came from. Girls, feel free to call me a control freak if you want. But I dont play that game with my girl and I give her the same respect she is now showing me. And I am not talking about every single man she ever talks too. Hell she gets hit on at the club we dance at but I dont freak about it. We always go together and we leave together. It's was the guy friends that wanted to talk to her and text her all the time that was a red flag. Any females that I am friends with are a friend of hers as well. They are friends of our relationship, not just of me so technically I have no female friends. All our friends are married or in a LTR, both male and female. But if one of our male friends started being to cozy with my girl I would address that appropriately. It's all about boundries and respect. And both of those things seem to be in short supply with some people. Edited March 11, 2012 by g450
FrustratedStandards Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 @ g450 But if its true what you say (and it probably is) about women not having a clue that their male "friends" secretly have other intentions, then how is she disrespecting her man by keeping these friendships? If she doesn't realize what's really going on, I don't think she should be blamed for doing something she genuinely sees as harmless. Often times when a man bluntly states that he isn't comfortable with her male friends, it comes off as jealous and incredibly controlling.
joystickd Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 @ g450 But if its true what you say (and it probably is) about women not having a clue that their male "friends" secretly have other intentions, then how is she disrespecting her man by keeping these friendships? If she doesn't realize what's really going on, I don't think she should be blamed for doing something she genuinely sees as harmless. Often times when a man bluntly states that he isn't comfortable with her male friends, it comes off as jealous and incredibly controlling. If it has the potential to create drama then she should be blamed for it. Sometimes these friends male or female can potentially cause problems for you and the person you are with. I knew a guy and his wife when they started dating she had a male friend she felt was like a brother to her. He seemed to be the same way. The more time went on his true colors showed. He started saying stuff about him. He would show up at their job (they met while working together) and would try to talk to her. He did everything he could to spend time with her thinking it would be less time she could spend with the guy she was with. This puts the guy of interest in a bad position because if he reacts then she is mad at him for going after the friend and seen as jealous and insecure when he is not. I told the guy if it was me I would just bash the guy's head in, but now I wouldn't approach it that way. Really the best option is to just end it with that woman and if she asks tell her why. The funny thing about threads of this type is the people that speak positively about male/female friends think their experience is generally how it goes and in some ways negate the fact that there are negative experience associated with it. The ones that are against it are not insecure but see the negative aspects of it and prefer to avoid it in order to keep from experiencing the negative aspects of it. I had a very terrible experience that damaged me and took years to recover with the help of therapy. I avoid it to prevent what happened from happening again. When I went though that bad experience it almost ruined me.
RedRobin Posted March 11, 2012 Posted March 11, 2012 It occurred to me that alot of this confusion (friend, date, whatever) has come up due to the dating style known as multidating. Because so many people do it (multidate), yea, I definately see how the word 'friend' has gotten completely polluted and confused. I don't date simultaneously. At all. Never have. I'm very clear about what constitutes a dating situation and what constitutes a friend. Not everyone is, so I get it now. I get it why some people would be very angry and off put by the so-called friend... because they aren't a friend. They are one of the willing or unwilling members of the multidater's corral they are trying to maintain. When I get the sense I'm getting put into the 'corral', I make my exit too. So I don't blame you. Difference is, I don't exit in a mean way. I just politely leave and close the door behind me graciously thanking them for their time (even when I don't feel so gracious). So, yes, I think I do get it now. But I'm not one of them. And I do have legitimate male friends. You don't have to take my word for it though. That's ok.
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