TheSingleGuy Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I find it interesting that I don't have any female friends. If there's a girl in my phone that I'm communicating with, it's because I'm pursuing her. At least in my mind that's how it is. There are a few I've slept with, who I've downgraded to "friends", and we remain in touch, but the fact remains, I'll still sleep with them if I decide to put in the effort. I talk to my guy friends. A few of them insist they have a female friend or two, but they also admit, they don't communicate regularly with them. Honestly, these are more like work acquaintances in my opinion. But the vast majority of men just tell it like it is: "I don't have any female friends." But now days, nearly every woman on the planet has male "friends". Married. Single. It really makes no difference. It only stands to reason, simple mathematical logic dictates, that if women have male friends but men don't have female friends, we men, with our limited social intuition aren't being told the entire, honest story about these male friends. When I was a kid growing up, my mom didn't have any male friends that she would communicate with regularly. I've interviewed, over the last week, since I stumbled upon this realization, dozens of men and women, who all tell me their moms didn't have any male friends either (this is all pre-cell phone era.) I've also asked a lot of women this question: "I've heard it said that if a woman is able to manipulate her man, she loses attraction for her man. Is that true?" While many will deny that they are manipulating, women ALL AGREE that if they can manipulate their man, it's unattractive. When we say manipulation, it means getting someone else to do something they'd rather not do. Or, possibly, allowing a behavior that previously wasn't allowed under an unspoken set of rules. If your girl is texting or communicating with a male friend, and if you allow it, if you bury your head in the sand under the pretext of "trust", instead of being man enough to confront the situation, she WILL LOSE attraction for you. Period. The thing is, once she feels enough power in the relationship to try this stunt, there is little that can be done. Number one, society now says it's permissible for women to have male "friends". (Don't get me started on how womankind has manipulated mankind on a societal level, but it's happened.) So, once your girl starts in with this behavior, what can you do about it without losing her attraction? You could "communicate" with her. Women always say we men are horrible communicators. Honestly, I see little difference between communicating and bitching and whining. If it comes across as whining, she will lose attraction for her "jealous" whiny boyfriend. If you try to control her by asking her to stop, society has already dictated that she has the right to have male friends, and she's doing nothing wrong. If you try to control her, you will be labeled "controlling". Again, she will lose attraction for her "controlling" boyfriend. If you blindly "trust" her this probably won't work either. If she senses that you aren't bothered in the slightest by her male "friend", in other words, you really do trust her, she's probably going to come to one of two conclusions: Either you simply don't care about her or she's going to think you are just a very naive person who doesn't "get it". The boyfriend who just doesn't care is unattractive. The guy who doesn't "get it" is also unattractive. If her behavior does bother you, but you aren't man enough to do something about it, oh trust and believe you WILL NOT be able to conceal your dislike of the situation from her. She WILL undoubtedly pick up on this. If this happens, she will lost attraction for you because she is manipulating you. You are allowing behavior that you don't like. You are not enforcing your boundaries. You are not behaving like an attractive man. So....guys, how do we handle this??? Any and all suggestions appreciated.
RedRobin Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I would like to respectfully disagree with your statement. I have many male friends. Granted, most of them are work acquaintances, but a few of us do get together outside of work. Some are single, some are married, some have girlfriends. Many times, I became friends with their wives first, then got to know their husbands and we are all friends now. It is important to place appropriate boundaries on these friendships and keep things open and honest. In the case of my male married friends, I've met all of their wives and would never do anything that would piss them off. Same thing with the girlfriends of my male friends (in one case, one of them is an ex-boyfriend). I recognize that my friendship (to some extent) depends on the good will of their spouse/girlfriend. Some of these male friends have existed for well over 5 years. Some approaching 10 years.... with no sex between us. I would be really hurt if they dumped me as a friend whenever they meet someone new. AND... I would not expect someone I date to expect me to dump my friends. Male or female. Sure, if they were bad people... mean or spiteful, addicts, or generally bad news. Yea, I could see that. But just because they happen to be born with an outy instead of an inny? No, I don't get that. I have many female friends too... so it is not like I'm just a guy-friend magnet. I'm outgoing and enjoy having a wide-circle of friends... Ones I'm very happy to introduce to my SO... Men who assume I'm 'doing' all these guys (or girls) or think that everyone is an orbiter or attention whore. Well, I don't get that either. The world is a lot less lonely if you learn how to make and keep friends from many walks of life. We come in all packages, ya know. 1
Author TheSingleGuy Posted March 9, 2012 Author Posted March 9, 2012 Sure, RedRobin, justify your behavior. Whatever. Your mom didn't have male friends when you were a kid growing up. Neither did mine. None of our moms had male friends growing up. This is a brand new experiment for humanity. It was brought about by advancements in technology.
verhrzn Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Perhaps guys could solve this horrible dilemma by not getting freaked out that their girl has a male friend, and trying to control who she is allowed to socialize with? Boggles the mind, I know. 2
zengirl Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 OP: First, how old are you? I think age/generation is a huge determiner of how likely someone is to have opposite sex friends. Many people in my generation (I'm 27) seem to have sincere friends of the opposite sex---as well as gay or lesbian friends of the same and/or opposite sex in many cases but I find it much less likely in, say, my parents' generation. I talk to my guy friends. A few of them insist they have a female friend or two, but they also admit, they don't communicate regularly with them. Honestly, these are more like work acquaintances in my opinion. But the vast majority of men just tell it like it is: "I don't have any female friends." I do think that men without female friends tend to be a specific type of guy who are less likely to be friends in the larger circle of friends that are male/female/gay/straight---more inclusive. My circle of friends includes couples, singles, gay, straight, male, and female people, and we often hang out in large group setting or various small groups. I am closer to some people than others, naturally. I probably have MORE close female friends than truly close male friends, but I have a few. They are not guys who asked me out or who I dated, but guys with whom my interaction has always been purely platonic. Many have, at various times, gone out with friends of mine or set me up with their friends or so forth. It only stands to reason, simple mathematical logic dictates, that if women have male friends but men don't have female friends, we men, with our limited social intuition aren't being told the entire, honest story about these male friends. Why do you assume you and men you know are every man? My husband has female friends. I know he's not trying to bang them, and they are sincere friends. The fact that he can be friends with a woman is one of the reasons I like him and his view towards people in general. He sees women as whole people, not just objects to fixate on sexually or romantically. When I was a kid growing up, my mom didn't have any male friends that she would communicate with regularly. I've interviewed, over the last week, since I stumbled upon this realization, dozens of men and women, who all tell me their moms didn't have any male friends either (this is all pre-cell phone era.) I would agree with this. It's generational; gender relations were very different when my Mom was young. Much fewer women than men went to college or had successful careers in those days as well. There was far less equality. If your girl is texting or communicating with a male friend, and if you allow it, if you bury your head in the sand under the pretext of "trust", instead of being man enough to confront the situation, she WILL LOSE attraction for you. Period. Hubby is immensely attractive to me, and he doesn't get threatened by my male friends.
mordor Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I have platonic female friends. Not very many, and I am not attracted to them. I know a girl who tells her long-distance boyfriend she has a male "friend" who she hangs out with occasionally. Truth is, she's hooking up with this "friend" when they "hang out." The "friend" is me.
RedRobin Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 My 'behavior'? Not sure what you are talking about. My mom didn't have many friends at all growing up. Neither did my dad. They were both pretty much loners. They got married and had kids at a fairly young age. Between work and raising a family, they didn't have much time to have too many outside friends. Now that we are grown up, they both have more friends. Cultural expectations are changing yes. But, for your own sake, you will need to find a respectful way to address your needs than assuming all women who has male friends has some 'agenda'. Or that all of these men whom I'm friends with have an agenda either. Would you be friends with a gay man or a lesbian? Would you assume that every person of every gender was all about hooking up 24/7? No? If not, then I'd like to think you can extend your viewpoint to other heterosexuals as well. Granted, not everyone can do that....and you should be very clear with women you date that you don't believe that men and women can be just friends. It is a common philosophy, and one you will find other women you are compatible with agreeing with you... so no need for accusations or drama. The men I date have legitimate female friends too. They usually have sisters too... and don't see every woman as a potential hole to plug... if you get my drift.
joystickd Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Its not trying to control a woman. Its more of a distrust of the man and his intentions. Its almost delusional to think a man can be friends with a woman unless he is gay, doesn't think you are attractive, or he is trying to get with one of your friends. If not the three then he is trying to have sex with you. I'm not for man/woman platonic friendships. I consider it bullsh*t but that is because of the horrible experience I had. It is weakness if you accept bad behavior or complain about it. My experiences of banging other mens wives and girlfriends proves this point. They talk so much sh*t about their SO it ridiculous. They come to me and I have an absolute zero tolerance for bad behavior and that turns them on. Women like a man the have to work for and not walk all over. It a major part of attraction.
somedude81 Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Knowing myself, I would not want a GF to spend any time alone with a single male friend. The only possible exception is if they are long time old friends, and even then I'd be wary if they ever hooked up.
Eddie Edirol Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 If she senses that you aren't bothered in the slightest by her male "friend", in other words, you really do trust her, she's probably going to come to one of two conclusions: Either you simply don't care about her or she's going to think you are just a very naive person who doesn't "get it". The boyfriend who just doesn't care is unattractive. The guy who doesn't "get it" is also unattractive. If her behavior does bother you, but you aren't man enough to do something about it, oh trust and believe you WILL NOT be able to conceal your dislike of the situation from her. She WILL undoubtedly pick up on this. If this happens, she will lost attraction for you because she is manipulating you. You are allowing behavior that you don't like. You are not enforcing your boundaries. You are not behaving like an attractive man. So....guys, how do we handle this??? Any and all suggestions appreciated. I tell you how you handle this. Usually if your woman was paying alot of attention to this guy, you would pick up on the distance. SO, if you see that the relationship is already on its way down, and she doesnt want to fix it, you bail. Thats it. You dont try to fix it when she doesnt want to.
joystickd Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I think the women with male friends would be surprised to find out the real truth. I bet if they brought sex to the table at least 99% of these male friends would say yes without hesitation.
Author TheSingleGuy Posted March 9, 2012 Author Posted March 9, 2012 I think Eddie's right. There's no way to fix it, so your only option is to dump her ass.
joystickd Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I think Eddie's right. There's no way to fix it, so your only option is to dump her ass. He is right. Men have to have a zero tolerance for bad behavior.
FitChick Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 If I were going to have sex with my male friends it would have happened years ago. If they want to have sex with me, it is their problem, not mine. Ain't gonna happen.
Author TheSingleGuy Posted March 9, 2012 Author Posted March 9, 2012 I read a book last night where this guy was friend-zoned by a girl for over 10 years. He finally got one thing with regards to seduction completely mastered and the next time he was with her, he slept with her. These male friends have a chance. And every guy on here knows not to trust those male friends.
joystickd Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 If I were going to have sex with my male friends it would have happened years ago. If they want to have sex with me, it is their problem, not mine. Ain't gonna happen. Lol. But the fact is if they do they have some ulterior motive. Some a small amount want to be friends but most accept friendship as a means to an end. The thing is women choose to ignore that fact.
RedRobin Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. Like I said before, if you don't think men and women can be legitimate friends, then find women who agree with you and will go along with that. I learned a long time ago that if someone wants to cheat on you, they'll find a way. Doesn't matter how many friends of the opposite sex they have. If excluding the other gender as friends makes you feel more secure, then that is certainly your perogative. Personally, I have better things to do with my time than babysit any man and vice-versa. Had to laugh at the 'dump her ass' thing though. I'd be dumping the man's ass (and I have) if he were so paranoid and suspicious that I had to worry about every conversation I had with a man. As far as spending time alone with a man... yea, it's called the workplace. I'm surrounded by men. Ya get used to it after awhile.
RedRobin Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Lol. But the fact is if they do they have some ulterior motive. Some a small amount want to be friends but most accept friendship as a means to an end. The thing is women choose to ignore that fact. Don't you think we can spot that? The "means to an end" guy. They are pretty transparent most of the time.
dasein Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) This topic comes up regularly here, will repeat my opinion. It's very easy to tell who is a "friend" and who is a "backburnered romantic interest" or "source of attention whoring." Real friends do things FOR EACH OTHER. The favors and expressions of friendship aren't all one way. A man who does favors for your GF all the time without returned favors is in all likelihood not a real friend, but pursuing her sexually. Friendship isn't keeping score, but after a point, you can tell who is a real friend and who is attempting to chase based on reciprocated behavior or lack of it. An SO ALWAYS wants you to know and be friends with their true friends, regardless of gender, unless the rare case that they know you and the friend would be like oil and water, and this estimation isn't because of "competition." A respectful SO will take steps to make all their real friends friends of the relationship as well, if not actually friends of yours. If the SO pays lipservice to getting you together with their "friend," yet somehow it never seems to work out that you meet the person, then in all likelihood it isn't a true friend. Recent exes are presumed NOT to be real friends until proven otherwise. Distant exes, the longer the relationship, the stronger the presumption that they aren't real friends. Rule of thumb is, if they broke up within a year, yet still maintain contact, likely not real friends. If they dated years ago in HS and keep in touch now, more likely it is a legit friendship. Applying these rules of thumb will weed out fake friends with great accuracy, and fake friends need to GO! They can do untold damage to a relationship and you will never know it. Your GF usually will not fess up that she is getting lots of trash talk about your or your relationship behind your back. Edited March 9, 2012 by dasein 5
zengirl Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Don't you think we can spot that? The "means to an end" guy. They are pretty transparent most of the time. THIS. It is easy to tell when a guy wants to bang you.
FrustratedStandards Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I have plenty of guy friends, and I love them all (not romantically of course). I couldn't give a rats ass what my boyfriends or dates think of them, because they are my friends. They were there before he came, and they will be there after he goes. I have gone for coffee individually with them, and if any man has a problem, then I can't date him. But I do agree that there is a double standard here. If a man does the same with a woman, he is most likely pursuing her. I don't know why this is, but I do agree it's the truth. It's not fair that I can go hang with my guys when my bf would be labeled an assh*le if he did the same, but I admit that I would have second thoughts. Hmm...interesting.
joystickd Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Another thing is drama. There are some male friends out there that can cause drama for the guy in his female friends life. The crazy thing is if the guy reacts to the male friend then the woman gets mad at him. In addition to my experiences I have had friends that had problems with the women they were with male friends. I don't date women with male friends to me its a red flag for trouble. I would have sex with them but it wouldn't translate into anything more than just sex. When it comes to women I want to date I have a zero tolerance for bad behavior and I refuse to date a woman with male friends
joystickd Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 THIS. It is easy to tell when a guy wants to bang you. Not all the time. There are some not easy to spot out.
dasein Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I couldn't give a rats ass what my boyfriends or dates think of them, because they are my friends. They were there before he came, and they will be there after he goes. That attitude would chase off lots of smart, self-respecting men. I would never enter an exclusive relationship with someone who had that attitude. If you aren't ready to include all your real friends in an exclusive relationship, and to show that relationship the respect it needs for trust to grow by giving it equal weight to preexisting friendships, you aren't ready to be exclusive with a particular person. Lots of women, and some men, seem to have a very hard time with this. It's not like you are dissing preexisting friendships by putting a newly formed exclusive relationship equal in importance. It's not zero sum, no one has to lose. Wanted to add to my prior post something I forgot. If your SO's "friend" is nothing other than a drinking buddy, odds are very high they aren't a real friend, but a guy hoping to get lucky off your GF one night when she gets drunk and has lowered inhibitions. Real friends do things together other than meet at bars for drinks. If there's nothing more to the relationship than drinking or partying, they need to GO. Trust me guys.
FrustratedStandards Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I put my friends first. If we develop a very serious relationship and all that jazz, then yes of course he would come first. But we have to get to that level before any changes happen. Until then, a new man would not have any priority over my friends. Touching base on your mention of inclusivity, a new man would not have to stay separate from my friends. But I don't know what you mean by "including" them in my relationships. They aren't part of my romantic relationships, much like how my boyfriend is not part of my friendships. That doesn't mean that the two can't interact or become friends themselves, but it also doesn't mean that you have to mesh all in one and call it a day.
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