SJC2008 Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 There seems to be a common theme on LS. There have been a few of "been together x years and he won't propose" threads. Why is this? Why don't people discuss this during the early stages of dating? If I said a month into dating a woman: "We just met and don't know where things are headed but I do believe in marraige", what is wrong with that. I'm not saying I want to marry YOU or am wife hunting. I'm saying that if I meet the right woman I am willing to commit THATS ALL. No one ever discusses it early on and it's usually the poor woman who want m that wind up wondering why he wont propose. Do any of you all have any opinions as to why many women wind up with men who don't want marriage?
Ninjainpajamas Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Because women love a man who doesn't want to be tied down! 1
TeeZee Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 These "poor women" need to take responsibility for getting what they want in a relationship, rather than putting up with a man's wishy-washy behaviour and then playing the victim of the "bad man". 1
carhill Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Do any of you all have any opinions as to why many women wind up with men who don't want marriage? Logical analysis has little play in affairs of the heart. OTOH, if one were so inclined, the sword of analysis cuts both ways, both helping to avoid unhealthy situations on the positive, as well as, in the negative, applying logic as a tool/determiner of love and support, meaning, if the numbers (logical factors) don't crunch out, then love and support ends without discussion or consideration, as the actions of such turn upon logical analysis. I call this 'thinking a relationship'. Such has its own benefits and pitfalls, mainly in the area of caring less, simply because the basis of the actions and words are rooted in logic and 'care' is a function of it. Lastly, in support of the OP, on the male side, the same psychology which impels a man to eschew marriage and/or commitment from a neutral perspective as opposed to painful/bad past relationship/marital experiences has other factors/behaviors/perspectives which are attractive to women, e.g. independence, dominance, leadership. Women want to ride that train and it's hard to get a ticket. I've found the easiest way to disperse women in my age group is to be a firm believer in marriage. So far, once that message got out, combined with the poverty-stricken divorcee message, it's worked great
Author SJC2008 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Posted March 6, 2012 I think it's because women are very "instinctive" and LOVE the "I don't know why I like him but I do" factor which clouds the brain and causes them to ignore red flags. Ya know? Red flags like never ever ever talking about wanting to get married one day LOL!
xxoo Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Women think he'll change. He'll be different for her. It also seems that many women are terrified to bring up the subject of marriage before he brings it up. I don't understand exactly why, but the reason frequently given is not wanting to pressure him, or ruin things with him. I don't get it. I agree that it is a basic issue of compatibility that should be discussed early on. But wanting marriage is not the same thing as wanting marriage with her. Some men say they don't want to marry, but what they really mean is that they don't want to marry you.
norajane Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 But wanting marriage is not the same thing as wanting marriage with her. Some men say they don't want to marry, but what they really mean is that they don't want to marry you. I agree with this. They may have talked about it in the beginning, and he might have said that he wanted marriage, to someone, someday. But that doesn't mean that a year or two or three later, that he wants to marry HER. The relationship might be "good enough" for him to want to stay in it, but he doesn't want to marry her.
carhill Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 A good question to ask a man early-on is if he is marriage-centric, which means that he enters relationships with marriage as his end goal. Of course, he can lie and/or blow sunshine up one's poop chute, but an honest man will provide an accurate general description of how he feels about marriage and relationships. This presumes he's of age, meaning late 20's anyway, and emotionally matured. Any answer is valid and the work is to accept it as the truth of the moment. For example, if I met a woman tomorrow who, upon asking her, shared that she never wanted to get married again (in my age group, most single women are divorced), I'd accept that as her truth and likely wouldn't date her, as I prefer not to invest in a path contrary to my own and have no interest in 'convincing' her, having played enough of those games in my past life. So, in addition to 'how do you feel about marriage?', I'd broach the 'do you expect your serious romantic relationship to progress to marriage and why?' part too. Mature adults can talk about these things. We've all been around the block.
irin Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 bringing up marriage, hell even commitments at early stages scares guys off they run straight away. they take the wrong way, and act like they are bieng pressured into.
Woggle Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 I think in some sub concious way they don't want it either. There is also the want what you can't have syndrome.
fallenenvy Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 I personally, (as a woman mind you) just don't believe a whole lot in marriage. Perhaps it has something to do with not wanting to be stuck in something.. or perhaps i an cynical and think most marriages end in messy and/or expensive divorces.. Perhaps it is the fact that i almost got married.. and things went horribly wrong and ended sadly.. either way.. i don't want to get married... ever. Not to say it won't end up happening... for say.. insurance reasons.. or whatever other legal and financial issues may drive me to it.. but i'm perfectly happy the way things are without a piece of paper stating that it will be difficult and costly if we end up wanting to go our separate ways. Perhaps my outlook is skewed.. but i just don't want to get involved in the whole marriage thing and i'm not sure what people see in it past the fact its a piece of paper. I feel that if you are in a committed partnership with someone.. that should be enough. I'd also like to say i am in a committed relationship and have been for awhile now. We live together and share finances and bills.. and i'm fine with that. We love each other.... so no.. im not bitter from lack of love... Anyway, just thought i'd throw in a perspective different than that of most women.
xxoo Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 bringing up marriage, hell even commitments at early stages scares guys off they run straight away. they take the wrong way, and act like they are bieng pressured into. But then, that's an answer. Better to ask and know early that they are freaked out by even talking about their ideas about marriage, than to find out later, after getting very involved. I think some women prefer the fantasy to reality, and don't want to know. 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Women want what they think they can't get. If they think a guy is easy and wants to commit they'll run like the wind to get away from him. If a guy doesn't want to commit or isn't easy or acts as such then women will be all over him. Simple really.
SincereOnlineGuy Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 There seems to be a common theme on LS. There have been a few of "been together x years and he won't propose" threads. Which is it going to be? a "common" theme? or "a few... threads" ???
Author SJC2008 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Posted March 6, 2012 @sincereonlineguy: I don't know. I'm trying to be mysterious so you'll be attracted to me! This has turned into a word play forum with a bunch of pre law arses lately. I think everyone got the point sir. 1
SciGuy Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Women want what they think they can't get. If they think a guy is easy and wants to commit they'll run like the wind to get away from him. If a guy doesn't want to commit or isn't easy or acts as such then women will be all over him. Simple really. I'm pretty sure this is EXACTLY what has happened to me. Yet, I'm in my 30's and she's in her 20's. I made my intentions clear early on, but it seems like it sort of backfired on me.
FrustratedStandards Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 I always bring it up (that I don't believe in marriage) and most men are fine with it. There was only one guy who seemed so upset by it because he wanted a family and kids. But it all came out early in the dating process so we didn't have problems. I guess most people don't discuss it early on because a) they don't expect it to go anywhere b) it would seem too clingy ("do you want to get married?") c) they don't want to scare off the other person I always make a point to bring it up though, because most men expect a woman to want these things, and most women do. I just make it clear that I don't.
fallenenvy Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 I always bring it up (that I don't believe in marriage) and most men are fine with it. There was only one guy who seemed so upset by it because he wanted a family and kids. But it all came out early in the dating process so we didn't have problems. I guess most people don't discuss it early on because a) they don't expect it to go anywhere b) it would seem too clingy ("do you want to get married?") c) they don't want to scare off the other person I always make a point to bring it up though, because most men expect a woman to want these things, and most women do. I just make it clear that I don't. YES! another woman that doesn't want to get married.. guess im not crazy. I think the guy i'm with isn't overly thrilled by the notion and he feels that i dont want to commit fully.. but.... he knew literally from day 1.. i dont want a ring and i dont want kids.... 1
RedRobin Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) There seems to be a common theme on LS. There have been a few of "been together x years and he won't propose" threads. Why is this? Why don't people discuss this during the early stages of dating? If I said a month into dating a woman: "We just met and don't know where things are headed but I do believe in marraige", what is wrong with that. I'm not saying I want to marry YOU or am wife hunting. I'm saying that if I meet the right woman I am willing to commit THATS ALL. No one ever discusses it early on and it's usually the poor woman who want m that wind up wondering why he wont propose. Do any of you all have any opinions as to why many women wind up with men who don't want marriage? I dunno about common themes... However, it does seem to be popular dating advice (especially advice given to women) that wanting marriage scares men away. In any case, alot of men assume that is what the women are shooting for, even if they don't say it. Having been around the block a little myself, I find it interesting and a bit amusing that men are the one bringing this out of the closet now that so many women seem to be reluctant to get married. Since I've seen it go both ways, I've come to the understanding that it is human nature for people to want the other person to take the risk... while we just bask in their never ending love for us (in whatever form 'love' means to someonoe)... without taking any chances ourselves. Our culture seems to make it very easy for people to indulge in that.. and our so-called relationships become this little transactional arrangement that are more like roommates with benefits than real love. Then there is this bizarre idea that if you want marriage, that means you don't have other 'options'... like, who doesn't want to do random hookups every so often and trade in for a new model every few years? What's wrong with you?! that said, there are some very real risks involved. Not surprisingly. Like anything of value. No pain, no gain. No risk, no reward... but I digress... I hope I answered your question, OP. Here's a question though... why wait a month? Why not just put that on the table in the first few dates? I think that people need to understand the other person's dating style ASAP. If the other person isn't looking for marriage or doesn't believe in marriage, I certainly want to know that before sleeping with them.. I'm not a 'lets f*ck for awhile and see where this goes" kind of person, myself. That sounds amazingly similar to a FWB thing, and that is not my style. So, yea, I agree with you. People who are looking to get married or a committed life-long relationship shouldn't be ashamed of saying so within the first few dates. Things are really upside down these days... it's ok to have sex on the first date, but not ok to talk about what your relationship goals are.... I just don't get it... Edited March 6, 2012 by RedRobin
zengirl Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Women think he'll change. He'll be different for her. It also seems that many women are terrified to bring up the subject of marriage before he brings it up. I don't understand exactly why, but the reason frequently given is not wanting to pressure him, or ruin things with him. I don't get it. I agree that it is a basic issue of compatibility that should be discussed early on. But wanting marriage is not the same thing as wanting marriage with her. Some men say they don't want to marry, but what they really mean is that they don't want to marry you. I think (excluding women who also don't want to get married, who wouldn't be fussing about it) this is basically it. Also: Rather than discussing it early on when it can be hypothetical, a lot of people wait until it kinda isn't. If you talk about your feelings about marriage on the 3rd date, I think everyone understands it's "in general." If you've been dating a guy for a year and bring it up, it's not "in general" anymore, and that's scary to a lot of people. Personally, I always wanted to know a guy was the marrying kind from early on, and it always came up naturally. I think men who WANT to get married are quite obvious about it, really, as long as you're obvious about it as well, as a woman. It's never like I had to consciously force the discussion to come up --- it always just did. 2
make me believe Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Even if a guy tells a girl that he doesn't believe in marriage, a lot of women will think that she'll be the one to change him. A guy can tell her over & over again that he doesn't want to get married, but she'll still tell herself "we've been together for x amount of years, and we're so happy..." and think that means that secretly he does want to get married & all she has to do is be the perfect girlfriend, or wait until the perfect time, or whatever, and he'll come around. People need to learn to take what others say at face value. But when it's not what you want to hear, it can be easy to rationalize it away and convince yourself that he doesn't REALLY mean it that way. I also think a lot of girls don't bring it up early on in dating because they're afraid it makes them look clingy or desperate, and then later on in the relationship they don't want to bring it up because they're afraid of what they might hear. I agree with zengirl that when a guy wants to get married, he is very clear about it. There shouldn't be all of this fretting & worrying & trying to convince a guy that he should want to get married. 2
grkBoy Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 There seems to be a common theme on LS. There have been a few of "been together x years and he won't propose" threads. Why is this? Why don't people discuss this during the early stages of dating? If I said a month into dating a woman: "We just met and don't know where things are headed but I do believe in marraige", what is wrong with that. I'm not saying I want to marry YOU or am wife hunting. I'm saying that if I meet the right woman I am willing to commit THATS ALL. No one ever discusses it early on and it's usually the poor woman who want m that wind up wondering why he wont propose. Do any of you all have any opinions as to why many women wind up with men who don't want marriage? If you discuss things early on, the guy will run for the hills. Even here we've seen guys say "run!" when a girl talks of long term commitment in the early stages. So she keeps her mouth shut in order to not scare him off. She stays with him because she doesn't want to be seen as the "selfish bitch" who quickly dumped a guy because he wouldn't give her what she wanted. I have to take the woman's side here on this one, because we as a society have made things so hard to discuss. How many of you guys would get fearful if she asked about this stuff a month into the RL? We've made it where women aren't allowed to talk about it, and are seen as "bad" if they push for it...yet now some want to come down on the women who stay loyal to their men in the hopes he'll pop the question. The only "stupid" ones are those who can clearly see that he'll never commit (and he doesn't want to), but they stay in for the long haul hoping the "investment" of time and emotion will pay off. These women don't want to walk away from a few years and think it was "just sex" to him. I honestly think any guy should know better. It's rare to meet a woman who seriously doesn't want commitment, and if she doesn't want commitment she'll make it known pretty early on. Any guy should assume any girl they get into a LTR with is going to want to get engaged within 1-3 years. If you don't like that, then don't get into RLs and just be a serial dater. No guy should be "shocked" when his long-term girlfriend is making a stink wondering where this is all going and thus saying it clearly that she wants to get married. 1
make me believe Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 If you discuss things early on, the guy will run for the hills. Even here we've seen guys say "run!" when a girl talks of long term commitment in the early stages. So she keeps her mouth shut in order to not scare him off. I don't think that a marriage-minded guy will run if a girl he's dating brings up her feelings about marriage in general. My husband and I talked about it on our 3rd date and he was surprised that I was bringing it up so soon because nobody ever had before, but it didn't freak him out because I wasn't talking about marrying him specifically and also because he wasn't scared of the idea of marriage overall. But I totally agree with your point that most girls do want to get married, and guys are pretty ridiculous when they act all shocked & appalled that their gf of 2 years starts bringing up the topic. 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 But if a guy "pops the question" too soon he's seen as a dangerous creepy weirdo. Just as many women shy away from commitment as men. This is a 13 one way, a baker's dozen the other sort of thing.
zengirl Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 But if a guy "pops the question" too soon he's seen as a dangerous creepy weirdo. Just as many women shy away from commitment as men. This is a 13 one way, a baker's dozen the other sort of thing. Why would you want to date a woman who shies away from commitment if that's what you want either? You should date someone who you're compatible with, in regards to marriage, IMO. And "too soon" is defined by the relationship and the other person. Granted, if you say, WYMM before you say ILY, then, that's probably weird for everyone, but if two partners are in love and on the same page, nobody's going to be "creeped" out about marriage if it's something they'd want for themselves. Unless they realize that person is not the right person to marry---which will probably always be true. There was a man who waited several years to propose to me and it put me off when he proposed because I knew I didn't want to marry him, but hubby knew me less than a year when he proposed. It's not about time---it's about (a) having the mindset AND (b) having the right relationship with the right person. Granted, that takes SOME time in most cases.
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