The Blue Knight Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 I felt the same way.....until I realized for those who struggle with intimacy, it is easier to open up to strangers. It is easier to impress someone who does not know you well enough, warts and all, to pass a negative judgement regarding what type of person you TRULY are 24/7. I was always impressed by my spouse, but not in the way he needed me to be, so he found someone who was. There are people who go through life unable to sustain any long-term intimate relationship because they NEED a steady supply of adoration and admiration from new sources. A compliment from you is not as profound as a compliment from someone new, not as exciting. And for those people, I agree with Kidd, that instead of fixing the broken dishes, it is easier to just buy a new set over and over again. Which is why celebrities and professional athletes fail at relationships all too often. But as you point out, they also walk among us. Classic narcissistic behavior.
The Blue Knight Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Sometimes those roles are reversred. P Agree. Plenty of married women have posted about their sadly non-testosterone filled husbands 80-year old libido.
The Blue Knight Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Frozensprouts, our situation was similar to yours (minus your husband's military background). My husband was so used to taking care of everything himself for almost all of his life, and he had issues where he did not let anyone in, including me. The worst thing is that in many instances, he would not share his stresses and made his own decision that I would be burdened. I think that's the biggest mistake we can make with respect to communication in relationships: when we decide how much our significant other can handle. We make a decision for them rather than telling them what the problems are and letting them decide for themselves what's burdensome. Before we got married, my husband and I lived together but had separate finances and only shared what was necessary. Unfortunately, after we got married, we never tried to change it, and it became such an unspoken issue. These days, when we are having calm discussions, we are talking about sharing everything if we end up staying together, a complete 180 degree switch. Frankly, if that was not on the table, there would be no point trying to work anything out. This works for minor personal expenditures, but on the whole, you both have to view everything as "ours" for it to work smoothly. My wife still will say once in a while, "If you pick this or that up, I'll just pay you back later" and I'm like, "it's our money, not to worry." I'm glad your hubby is opening up about a lot of stuff he just kept to himself. That's got to feel like a whole new man in your life. 1
The Blue Knight Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 No.....not necessarily... it all depends on the people involved and how the relationship took a turn before finding out about it. Sure for some it may make it worse.... but for others, there may be a nominal effect....perhaps even a joke or laughing point (I know quite a few like that) .... for many I know it was the closure they needed and provided relief SC, you've been lying low of late. You were pretty actively posting on my issue last summer / fall. Appreciated your views. Where'd my other married buddies from that thread run off too? I've managed to keep tabs on Floridaman and Giotto, but I've lost track of the other couple of guys.
The Blue Knight Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Absolutely. We chose not to ruffle any feathers, and clearly we were both at a point of finding it easier to consider an affair than to talk about it. Well, it was clearly harder for me to have an affair than it was for him, but I was just as vulnerable to it. Ugh, why didn't anyone tell me that marriage was such hard work! You're both laying your cards on the table Sandie as a result of this affair. What other crisis in the relationship would have caused the two of you to move closer? I dare say, not too much. For some relationships that crisis is someone suddenly announcing a desire to get out of the marriage (divorce) and in other cases it's the bomb-shell "I don't love you anymore" when you don't see it coming. Those are the other two scenarios that might snap the jilted spouse back into reality, but oftentimes by that point, it's hard to get the the spouse who wants out back because they've reached the point of no return in their minds and their emotions by that time. Your husband never stopped loving you and he didn't want out of the marriage. He just dealt with his issues and yours stupidly and selfishly, but at the moment he made those decisions, he probably never thought you guys would be back to where you were. He's probably the happiest guy in your home state right now. 1
frozensprouts Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Frozensprouts, our situation was similar to yours (minus your husband's military background). My husband was so used to taking care of everything himself for almost all of his life, and he had issues where he did not let anyone in, including me. The worst thing is that in many instances, he would not share his stresses and made his own decision that I would be burdened. I think that's the biggest mistake we can make with respect to communication in relationships: when we decide how much our significant other can handle. We make a decision for them rather than telling them what the problems are and letting them decide for themselves what's burdensome. Before we got married, my husband and I lived together but had separate finances and only shared what was necessary. Unfortunately, after we got married, we never tried to change it, and it became such an unspoken issue. These days, when we are having calm discussions, we are talking about sharing everything if we end up staying together, a complete 180 degree switch. Frankly, if that was not on the table, there would be no point trying to work anything out. I think that a lot of his not wanting to "burden" me with his problems is that I am the primary caregiver for our kids...I'm the one who takes them to their doctors, therapy, meets with their schools, meets with their therapists, psychologists, etc.When they need someone with them in the hospital, it's me. that's just the way it worked out, and many kids , when they need comfort, need "mom". He knew I felt guilty about their issues , and thought i was to stressed to handle much more. I think he was using his experiences with his parents when he was a kid to judge how much I could handle...I could have handled his problems too. i know he didn't really mean to, but by not telling me how he was feeling, he took that choice away from me. 1
StoneCold Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 By cheating a WS deprives the BS of their right to choose a solution to their mutual problem. The WS deliberately violates a basic rule of relationships...and they know it. They mislead the BS into thinking all is well. ... So what if a WS communicates the issue many times and it gets ignored? The BS has deprived themselves of choosing a solution because they chose to forfeit. Nemo, the BS KNOWS theres a problem more often than not. In certain situations I so no misleading in that aspect. While leaving can cause a lot of pain, at least it's not as much as cheating. ... Again with this.... sorry nemo but you can only really speak for yourself on this. There are many out there that would beg to differ with you because in a lot of cases with merely leaving...theres no closure....or perceived closure. Something to ponder... How many songs do you suppose have been written about someone hurt because they left vs someone hurt because they cheated? While the latter has its share there are faaaar more for the former...and when people write songs they write from the heart so people can relate. Not that that little observation is the be all and end all (of course not)....but sometimes the little things can be the most telling.....just saying
The Blue Knight Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Again with this.... sorry nemo but you can only really speak for yourself on this. There are many out there that would beg to differ with you because in a lot of cases with merely leaving...theres no closure....or perceived closure. Something to ponder... I can see what SC is saying here. If someone just leaves and you have no real explanation or reason, you'd have no closure and most assuredly feel like a failure ongoingly. At least in an affair, you can feel like a failure BUT you know what drew that person you loved away from the marriage. Both would hurt. Both would leave a lot of scars. Both are not good options.
StoneCold Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 I can see what SC is saying here. If someone just leaves and you have no real explanation or reason, you'd have no closure and most assuredly feel like a failure ongoingly. At least in an affair, you can feel like a failure BUT you know what drew that person you loved away from the marriage. Both would hurt. Both would leave a lot of scars. Both are not good options. yup... not saying one is really any better than the other.... they both do their fair share
Author SandieBeach Posted March 23, 2012 Author Posted March 23, 2012 This works for minor personal expenditures, but on the whole, you both have to view everything as "ours" for it to work smoothly. My wife still will say once in a while, "If you pick this or that up, I'll just pay you back later" and I'm like, "it's our money, not to worry." I'm glad your hubby is opening up about a lot of stuff he just kept to himself. That's got to feel like a whole new man in your life. No kidding, TBK! At times I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone or something. It feels good to hear him that he wants more openness and transparency. We are discussing the financial stuff, but would combine it if I decide I want to truly work on our marriage. I am still here because I am trying, but I am still revisiting a lot of his lying, and am on the fence about staying. I do think if I want to stay married, I will have to let some of the past go and start planning our future. At this point, I am more about the past than the future...
The Blue Knight Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 No kidding, TBK! At times I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone or something. It feels good to hear him that he wants more openness and transparency. We are discussing the financial stuff, but would combine it if I decide I want to truly work on our marriage. I am still here because I am trying, but I am still revisiting a lot of his lying, and am on the fence about staying. I do think if I want to stay married, I will have to let some of the past go and start planning our future. At this point, I am more about the past than the future... As well you should be at this point. I would expect you'll be dealing with the emotional effects of his for quite a while. And you have that right. But I'm sure you realize that at some point down the road months or years from now, when you make a decision to stay or to move on, if you do stay and announce as much, you'll have to bury the past if it's going to work. No man or woman in a relationship can hold up under having their past tossed at them forever. Not that he doesn't have a pee-pee whacking due, because he very much does. Only you'll know when the time is right. But be cautious about driving him away again be revisiting the past a bit too often. You've made some real progress in the past few weeks. You want to keep the communication lines open, but if he thinks this is going to be something he can never put behind him, he'll likely shut down at some point. My ex-wife was a master at revisiting the past. And I never did anything remotely close to what your hubby did. It was like, that woman could hold onto something from our past for years. Some thing insignificant like a comment that I made in an argument we had when we dated. Oftentimes I didn't even know it was an issue, and then WHAM! . . . six or eight years after the event, I'd hear about it. The thing was, most of the time I didn't even recall what she was talking about because it was something I long before erased from my brain. My current wife has never done that to me, and it's like night and day when I compare this marriage to that one. If she has something bothering her she'll approach me and we'll talk about it, but she's so laid back, not too much even bothers her. I stopped today and bought her a pair of sandals that match an outfit I bought for her a couple weeks back. She's so overly appreciative of little things like that. Admittedly, I'm the one with female fashion sense in the family. She tells everyone who sees her wearing stuff I pick up for her, "my husband does a better job of picking stuff out than I do." And the thing is, I'm 100% heterosexual !!!
beenburned Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 TBK, You might have missed your calling as a fashion designer! 1
ladydesigner Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 No kidding, TBK! At times I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone or something. It feels good to hear him that he wants more openness and transparency. We are discussing the financial stuff, but would combine it if I decide I want to truly work on our marriage. I am still here because I am trying, but I am still revisiting a lot of his lying, and am on the fence about staying. I do think if I want to stay married, I will have to let some of the past go and start planning our future. At this point, I am more about the past than the future... I understand this. The one bad thing about infidelity is it leaves a scar that never goes away for everyone involved. For the AP it is that they helped another person cheat on their spouse, for the WS it is the fact that you can never erase that you have cheated, and for the BS obviously that you cannot forget that you have been cheated on. You cannot unring the bell, but you can certainly heal from it, it just leaves a nasty scar. 1
The Blue Knight Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 TBK, You might have missed your calling as a fashion designer! Indeed. I'm multifaceted. I'm not sure why I have a knack for picking out my wife's clothing. It's not like something I have an interest in except for the sake of picking something out for her. I was good at it in my first marriage as well. Women who work in these female clothing stores would come up to me (the lone dorky looking guy in the women's clothing store ) and ask me if I needed any help. I was like . . . nope . . . I'm good. My current wife is far too conservative about her wardrobe. She's rather mundane about what she wears. She has never had a sense of style like many women do but I attribute a lot of that back to the self-esteem issues I've discussed concerning her. I don't think she sees herself as looking good in many of those items of clothing. So I spruce up the wardrobe a bit. She admits she'd never pick out a lot of the stuff that I do. Oh well. I'm good for at least that much!
The Blue Knight Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Indeed. I'm multifaceted. I'm not sure why I have a knack for picking out my wife's clothing. It's not like something I have an interest in except for the sake of picking something out for her. I was good at it in my first marriage as well. Women who work in these female clothing stores would come up to me (the lone dorky looking guy in the women's clothing store ) and ask me if I needed any help. I was like . . . nope . . . I'm good. My current wife is far too conservative about her wardrobe. She's rather mundane about what she wears. She has never had a sense of style like many women do but I attribute a lot of that back to the self-esteem issues I've discussed concerning her. I don't think she sees herself as looking good in many of those items of clothing. So I spruce up the wardrobe a bit. She admits she'd never pick out a lot of the stuff that I do. Oh well. I'm good for at least that much! Oh, and I make dinner occasionally, which I'm off to do right now. Everyone have a nice Friday evening.
The Blue Knight Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 What's for dinner? Standard easy meal. Roasted chicken, mashed potatoes, sauteed asparagus.
findingnemo Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 I agree with that Nemo. If my H expressed in any way that he was willing to go outside of our marriage to get what he was not getting from me, I would have fought for him....very hard. Regarding your second point, I think that the cheating spouse's decision not to leave (and to cheat instead) had little to do about BS's feelings. The WS was either not ready to leave at all, or not ready to leave at that time. I doubt it had much to do with hurting BS less by cheating. I agree with this especially the bolded part.
findingnemo Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 So what if a WS communicates the issue many times and it gets ignored? The BS has deprived themselves of choosing a solution because they chose to forfeit. Nemo, the BS KNOWS theres a problem more often than not. In certain situations I so no misleading in that aspect. I think that there are different levels of communication. I'm sure that when a problem arises, the aggrieved party brings it up. What I doubt though is that they state clearly the consequences of the situation not changing. Take the lack of sex, for example. The aggrieved party will definitely bring it up. Probably bring it up a lot. But he/she will find it hard to say "You know what? If we don't start having sex soon, I'm going to have to get it f rom someone else!" If they did and the spouse ignored them, then I would say that it won't be cheating for the aggrieved spouse to... It would take a spouse who either doesn't care about sex or isn't interested to not react by doing everything possible to sort the problem out. It's not enough to complain about the issue. One needs to make their spouse understand how important the issue is and the consequences of not dealing with it. Again with this.... sorry nemo but you can only really speak for yourself on this. There are many out there that would beg to differ with you because in a lot of cases with merely leaving...theres no closure....or perceived closure. I come from a culture where getting a D because your H cheated is considered silly. So I know a lot of people (including myself) who when they discover an A will fight for their M or ignore the A if it isn't a threat to the M. However, in my view, once a BS discovers an A, decides to stay and does nothing about it, they have effectively "permitted" it. In some cases, a W can actually encourage her H to have a girlfriend for all sorts of reasons. The key here is that the W is aware of what's happening. So she's made her own choice and I wouldn't blame the H for anything. Something to ponder... How many songs do you suppose have been written about someone hurt because they left vs someone hurt because they cheated? While the latter has its share there are faaaar more for the former...and when people write songs they write from the heart so people can relate. Not that that little observation is the be all and end all (of course not)....but sometimes the little things can be the most telling.....just saying About the songs, I can think of lots of them which talk about being dumped...and only a few about cheating. So that's true. But why is so hard for someone to ask the person they are married to which they'd prefer? If things have gotten that bad, communicate it. All I advocate for is that people stop the lying, gas lighting, etc.
StoneCold Posted March 24, 2012 Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) But why is so hard for someone to ask the person they are married to which they'd prefer? If things have gotten that bad, communicate it. All I advocate for is that people stop the lying, gas lighting, etc. OK Nemo heres what I want you to do.... go clear your head of this conversation. Then come back and read this dialogue only: Him: "If you dont start having sex with me I'm going to get it somewhere else" Her: "Ok, Ok...dont do that...lets have sex" Hows that read to you? Granted its a very simplified discussion but the fundamentals are sound. Essentially it reads like someone having to threaten one to have sex with them.....not a good look and a very slippery slope; you dont ever want to be on that slope..especially as a man these days. If the girl agrees to have sex after that I would be so turned off from it and I think this applies to many others as well. I guess you could be crystal clear but I dont think its necessary. Bringing the issue up multiple times is message enough, I think Edited March 25, 2012 by StoneCold
findingnemo Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 OK Nemo heres what I want you to do.... go clear your head of this conversation. Then come back and read this dialogue only: Him: "If you dont start having sex with me I'm going to get it somewhere else" Her: "Ok, Ok...dont do that...lets have sex" Hows that read to you? Granted its a very simplified discussion but the fundamentals are sound. Essentially it reads like someone having to threaten one to have sex with them.....not a good look and a very slippery slope; you dont ever want to be on that slope..especially as a man these days. If the girl agrees to have sex after that I would be so turned off from it and I think this applies to many others as well. I guess you could be crystal clear but I dont think its necessary. Bringing the issue up multiple times is message enough, I think Yes it sounds a bit crass, like a threat. But to me, a M is a partnership which I'd want to keep and protect. If my being open about things sounds impolite, forceful even, then that's the price. I can't imagine having an A because I was worried about pressuring my H into resuming our sex life in this case. Maybe it's just me...but if my H responded by saying I was pressuring him to sleep with me I'd feel totally justified to find an outside partner...we would be having a serious problem. I can't imagine worrying about looking bad because I stated facts to my partner. If I can't be open with him, who else am I supposed to be open with?
StoneCold Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 ...but if my H responded by saying I was pressuring him to sleep with me I'd feel totally justified to find an outside partner...we would be having a serious problem. ding ding ding ding ding BINGO... 1
The Blue Knight Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 OK Nemo heres what I want you to do.... go clear your head of this conversation. Then come back and read this dialogue only: Him: "If you dont start having sex with me I'm going to get it somewhere else" Her: "Ok, Ok...dont do that...lets have sex" Hows that read to you? Granted its a very simplified discussion but the fundamentals are sound. Essentially it reads like someone having to threaten one to have sex with them.....not a good look and a very slippery slope; you dont ever want to be on that slope..especially as a man these days. If the girl agrees to have sex after that I would be so turned off from it and I think this applies to many others as well. I guess you could be crystal clear but I dont think its necessary. Bringing the issue up multiple times is message enough, I think I agree which is why I was always careful about how I approached my wife about initiating. Coaxing someone into intimacy would be a giant turn-off to me so I didn't want to ever come off with that attitude. I'd prefer to just go without.
findingnemo Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 ding ding ding ding ding BINGO... Well, you know my view on sexless Ms. And my argument remains the same. If a spouse ignores A problem, refuses to address it, then sure, what comes next is something they are responsible for.
findingnemo Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 I agree which is why I was always careful about how I approached my wife about initiating. Coaxing someone into intimacy would be a giant turn-off to me so I didn't want to ever come off with that attitude. I'd prefer to just go without. TBK, if you found yourself in that position, wouldn't you discuss it with your W? I'm not talking about ordering her to have sex or else... Try to find out from her why she doesn't want to have sex anymore? Wouldn't you tell her that this is a big problem that needs a solution pronto? Wouldn't you help her work on it by either changing the way you do things or taking her to a gynecologist if there is need for that? Going out and having an A because your W refused to have sex with you without making her aware of the grave consequences is not right. Shouldn't one give her the chance to explain why? Should she have the chance to correct the problem before a MM has an A? That, my friend, is what I call communication. And my problem is that people don't communicate enough and then go out and have As and seem surprised that their spouses feel betrayed and in some instances violated. 1
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