Dealing With Husband's Affair

[SandieBeach]

Yeah, I've seen the site a couple times. Interesting. As I said in my previous posting, the computer has made it all a bit too easy. Like any technology, that's both good and bad depending on how you use it. But I think what it speaks more too are all the desperately unhappy marriages out there. What I noticed was a common theme of "I don't want to change my life, just have some fun on the side."

 

Personally, if my marriage was that bad, I think I'd prefer to just leave it. But then again, I do understand why people can't just shoot out the door. Kids, finances, homes, so many, many things that keep you wanting to stay in the marriage, or in some cases having to stay in the marriage.

 

Yeah, and the consistency issue is about replacing what your husband lacked at home. The variety problem would have hinted of a serial cheater. So that's good to know. Goes back to what I was saying earlier. He needed a surrogate for intimacy. And him cancelling his membership before you found out, shows he just needed that one person to share it with I believe.

 

Sex for monogamous men is very important. It's a connection that they can only get with their wife or that one special person in their life, if they're like me anyway. If that wife isn't available, then no matter how devoted a husband he is, there will come a point where that primal craving is going to drive the guy nuts, and he's going to falter. I suspect quite a few monogamous women have this same problem.

 

Yes! I noticed as well that it's all about satisfying some "forbidden" desire without thinking about the consequences. Many people who signed up have their normal photos posted for anyone to see. I guess the thrill of it is what keeps them going.

 

I know that sex is important for most monogamous men and women. It was important for me as well, so I know how frustrating it could get. I can only say that if we had a stronger marriage, we would be able to communicate about this before anyone got hurt.

[findingnemo]

Thanks TBK and Sandie

 

TBK, well maybe they shouldn't threaten an A....I dunno.... My W came to me with a list of issues a couple months into her A, I reacted and worked on all of them. I actually felt really good about it. She seemed to be satisfied too...I didn't know it was already too late though

 

She had come to me other times too and I had responded. I used to sometimes sleep downstairs if I had been up till like 4AM playing a game or working on music. She told me it was killing our relationship. I stopped doing that, for the last 7 years I've always come to bed, no matter how late. I've had her hide games from me, destroyed discs, etc. I think a common complaint is that spouses relapse, and I've certainly relapsed many times...but dern it, remind me if I'm off track again. Don't give up and go have an A!

 

Ok, here's what I think...if you STILL can't get the point across with "our relationship is in trouble" which is what usually got through to me...THEN be HONEST and say, "Honey I'm really serious, I'm starting to think about other people and I don't want to go there because I love you." Something like that. Tone of voice is a big part of it. I think the dry text may not express how I pictured it being said.

 

Tone of voice is indeed everything. Many times people don't want to hear the truth and will blow it off. But if things are bad at home, it bears repeating oneself or asking the other person to take things seriously. There is a way to talk to your partner that is non-threatening but coveys the seriousness of a situation.

[findingnemo]

You nailed this one, TBK . I don't want to say women do this more than men, since I've got no stats to back me up, but this keeping the peace thing is probably one of the biggest reasons for holding back. We do it enough times, and then it turns to resentment and harboring "stuff." Some things are so clear to me today like never before. For example, I used to be embarrassed to bring up things that bothered me, or for needing certain things in a relationship. Why? I have no frickin' idea (on a deeper level it is). While it's still hard to bring up certain issues, I don't waste time thinking about how to bring them up - I just open my mouth and blurt it out. Then we deal with it. Of course, I need to work on my timing (i.e. not during work hours ), but it's refreshing to finally be myself.

 

Yes, women have issues bringing up things. Sometimes they want to keep the peace but many times they assume things are quite obvious and their H's should be able to know. We withdraw and when asked what's wrong we say "nothing" all the while thinking that he will press the issue further...or try to figure out what he did.

 

Men are from Mars... But I think as we grow older and closer to our partners, we assume less and talk more. It's quite probable that we begin to talk so much the men in our lives get fed up of all the emotional discussions! We can't win!

[The Blue Knight]

You nailed this one, TBK . I don't want to say women do this more than men, since I've got no stats to back me up, but this keeping the peace thing is probably one of the biggest reasons for holding back. We do it enough times, and then it turns to resentment and harboring "stuff." Some things are so clear to me today like never before. For example, I used to be embarrassed to bring up things that bothered me, or for needing certain things in a relationship. Why? I have no frickin' idea (on a deeper level it is). While it's still hard to bring up certain issues, I don't waste time thinking about how to bring them up - I just open my mouth and blurt it out. Then we deal with it. Of course, I need to work on my timing (i.e. not during work hours ), but it's refreshing to finally be myself.

 

This seems to happen a lot in marriages where people drift apart . . which is all too frequently. I think ALL married people hold a few things in or write them off as "not worth it" including me. There are battles to fight for and battles not worth my time. My wife for instance puts a full stream of tooth paste across the bristles of her toothbrush, the same as you see in TV commercials (about 5X more than a person actually needs). I've never said a word. It's not that big of a deal to me. Actually, it's kind of humorous to be honest. The things that need to be addressed I address and I encourage her to do the same with me.

 

I tackle anything I see as an issue right away because of what we're discussing here. Just get it out and deal with it. I'm a deal with it kind of person anyway. I like to fix it, put it behind me, and move on. That's my personality on the job as well.

 

My ex-wife could hold onto stuff forever. It's not a fair way to treat the spouse. To me if it's important enough to bring up 10 years after the fact, why wasn't it important enough to bring up when it occurred?

[The Blue Knight]

Yes! I noticed as well that it's all about satisfying some "forbidden" desire without thinking about the consequences. Many people who signed up have their normal photos posted for anyone to see. I guess the thrill of it is what keeps them going.

 

I know that sex is important for most monogamous men and women. It was important for me as well, so I know how frustrating it could get. I can only say that if we had a stronger marriage, we would be able to communicate about this before anyone got hurt.

 

Then think of his affair as the glue that is bringing you back together.

[The Blue Knight]

Yes, women have issues bringing up things. Sometimes they want to keep the peace but many times they assume things are quite obvious and their H's should be able to know. We withdraw and when asked what's wrong we say "nothing" all the while thinking that he will press the issue further...or try to figure out what he did.

 

Men are from Mars... But I think as we grow older and closer to our partners, we assume less and talk more. It's quite probable that we begin to talk so much the men in our lives get fed up of all the emotional discussions! We can't win!

Nemo, I'm still blown away by what you posted about your ex-husband. What a tool! You may have seen my posting on that thread, but I think he smacks of antisocial personality disorder to varying degrees, but at this point, who cares. Good riddance! You are a special woman to survive that whole affair.

 

I kind of view your comment above the opposite actually. As we grow older and spend more time in the relationship, we ASSUME more and communicate a lot less typically . . . and men are more guilty of this than women. Unless of course we are on top of keeping the relationship fresh and very communicative, which by the 20th year of marriage, many fail to place at the top of their list.

[SandieBeach]

Then think of his affair as the glue that is bringing you back together.

 

Eternal optimist, aren't ya, TBK?

[The Blue Knight]

Eternal optimist, aren't ya, TBK?

 

Ha ha ha . . . nope. I'm a pragmatist and a realist. There are marriages worth saving and marriages that should have been trashed years ago. You're in the "save" category.

 

Believe me. I've been back to the same "bad marriages" many times on the job and my advice is typically "Why are you two even together? Move on . . . the two of you aren't meant for one another." I have no problem saying it when it needs to be said. But you have to remember that the dysfunctional members of our cherished society don't even contemplate the ab-normalcy of calling the police to their homes twice a week. Those of us in the "normal" side of things would think that's just darn abnormal.

[Kidd]

Be prepared to be disappointed.

 

Sandi, for what it is worth, I'm very sorry you have had to suffer the TT. 2 weeks ago the only thing that mattered to you was honesty. He didn't get the message. Now you'd like to think that he has finally gotten the message. When are you going to get the message? When people show you who they are, believe them. I will always admire those that find the internal fortitude to continue attempts at R. But I think you should be prepared to be disappointed again. He goes straight from faithful to Ashley Madison? I wonder if this is even really his first affair. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm suggesting that there should be some serious consequences for this recent set of lies. I'm very sorry that you're going thru this. They are so damn predictable.

[Kidd]

Sorry to sound like such a jerk. This obviously wasn't your fault. I get pretty pissed off about TT because of my own experience. My apologies. You may certainly have all the truth now. Just protect yourself. Every TT was another Dday for me and it just kills. Best to expect the worst and (perhaps) hope for the best. Remember that cheaters are liars by definition. Freakin' jerks.

[The Blue Knight]

Sandi, for what it is worth, I'm very sorry you have had to suffer the TT. 2 weeks ago the only thing that mattered to you was honesty. He didn't get the message. Now you'd like to think that he has finally gotten the message. When are you going to get the message? When people show you who they are, believe them. I will always admire those that find the internal fortitude to continue attempts at R. But I think you should be prepared to be disappointed again. He goes straight from faithful to Ashley Madison? I wonder if this is even really his first affair. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm suggesting that there should be some serious consequences for this recent set of lies. I'm very sorry that you're going thru this. They are so damn predictable.

I don't think that's exactly the way it happened kidd. One doesn't go "straight from faithful to ashley madison" overnight. There were probably years of being faithful but also, very frustrated.

 

My gosh, I was frustrated in my marriage for a number of years and I didn't cheat, and I had the opportunities at several points, and even thought about it a couple times. I couldn't because I knew that I had to face my God one day and because I couldn't hurt my wife that way. I knew something like that would destroy her so that played into my behaving myself as well. But had it gone on for another three years, five years, I have no idea . . . maybe I would have succumb to temptation. I don't know. I think it's like anything in life. Under the right circumstances, anyone can fall.

 

Thankfully, it's changed and we're in a better place now due to a crisis over the issue last summer.

 

But for monogamous men, cheating doesn't come easy or naturally, but after years of not feeling there's nothing left in the marriage, it can certainly happen.

 

How many people have posted here about being the victims of affairs but over the course of time, they made it work? Plenty . . . and many of those marriages are stronger today then when they began.

 

Kidd, I went back the other day and read through your threads. I'm in pain just reading them and my heart goes out to you buddy for what your wife put you through. I don't blame you for feeling like you do . . . that every spouse who cheats has been cheating and lying for a long time, because that's what you experienced. You do agree that this isn't always the case in every marriage where an affair takes place correct?

I would agree with you that Sandie has to watch him and monitor the situation. You don't take anything at face value from a cheating spouse, and they have to EARN back the trust and it takes a very long time.

 

But IF you're going to give the marriage a shot, you have to allow that wayward spouse the opportunity to prove themselves or crash and burn . . . would you not agree?

Edited March 29, 2012 by The Blue Knight
sentence

[Kidd]

I don't think that's exactly the way it happened kidd. One doesn't go "straight from faithful to ashley madison" overnight. There were probably years of being faithful but also, very frustrated.

 

My gosh, I was frustrated in my marriage for a number of years and I didn't cheat, and I had the opportunities at several points, and even thought about it a couple times. I couldn't because I knew that I had to face my God one day and because I couldn't hurt my wife that way. I knew something like that would destroy her so that played into my behaving myself as well. But had it gone on for another three years, five years, I have no idea . . . maybe I would have succumb to temptation. I don't know. I think it's like anything in life. Under the right circumstances, anyone can fall.

 

Thankfully, it's changed and we're in a better place now due to a crisis over the issue last summer.

 

But for monogamous men, cheating doesn't come easy or naturally, but after years of not feeling there's nothing left in the marriage, it can certainly happen.

 

How many people have posted here about being the victims of affairs but over the course of time, they made it work? Plenty . . . and many of those marriages are stronger today then when they began.

 

Kidd, I went back the other day and read through your threads. I'm in pain just reading them and my heart goes out to you buddy for what your wife put you through. I don't blame you for feeling like you do . . . that every spouse who cheats has been cheating and lying for a long time, because that's what you experienced. You do agree that this isn't always the case in every marriage where an affair takes place correct?

I would agree with you that Sandie has to watch him and monitor the situation. You don't take anything at face value from a cheating spouse, and they have to EARN back the trust and it takes a very long time.

 

But IF you're going to give the marriage a shot, you have to allow that wayward spouse the opportunity to prove themselves or crash and burn . . . would you not agree?

 

I think she gave him a chance when she gave him the gift of reconciliation the first time. Then she made it clear she just needed honesty. And he lied some more. If we're talking about proving himself, what has he proven so far?

 

I did the same thing as Sandi when I caught my W lying. My lovely wife that I desperately wanted to forgive had learned her lesson, given me some more truth, told me she would never lie to me again (which was an active lie since she knew about so many other things about which she was still lying). Ugh. When I found those out, yet another devastating blow to me and now the damn marriage is over.

 

Where I agree with you is that it is only up to Sandi how much she can stomach. What I don't get is where your sense of optimism comes from in this situation and saying that her M is one of the ones that can be saved. If anything, the guy just proved again that he can't be trusted. I see no reason for extra optimism here, just the same damn predictable cheating, lying scumbag behavior we see time and time again that doesn't always lead to a warm and fuzzy improved marriage but many times just more torture for a BS that has been tortured enough. I recognize that my situation colors my opinions, the same as everyone here goes thru. I sincerely hope it works out for Sandi. The last thing I wanted in life was the mess that I have now. But I've learned it takes two to have a marriage and only one to end it.

[The Blue Knight]

I think she gave him a chance when she gave him the gift of reconciliation the first time. Then she made it clear she just needed honesty. And he lied some more. If we're talking about proving himself, what has he proven so far?

 

I did the same thing as Sandi when I caught my W lying. My lovely wife that I desperately wanted to forgive had learned her lesson, given me some more truth, told me she would never lie to me again (which was an active lie since she knew about so many other things about which she was still lying). Ugh. When I found those out, yet another devastating blow to me and now the damn marriage is over.

 

Where I agree with you is that it is only up to Sandi how much she can stomach. What I don't get is where your sense of optimism comes from in this situation and saying that her M is one of the ones that can be saved. If anything, the guy just proved again that he can't be trusted. I see no reason for extra optimism here, just the same damn predictable cheating, lying scumbag behavior we see time and time again that doesn't always lead to a warm and fuzzy improved marriage but many times just more torture for a BS that has been tortured enough. I recognize that my situation colors my opinions, the same as everyone here goes thru. I sincerely hope it works out for Sandi. The last thing I wanted in life was the mess that I have now. But I've learned it takes two to have a marriage and only one to end it.

 

 

I was where you are at Kidd about 20 years ago and yes, I remember the feeling of being kicked in the gut over my wife's affair. It's a sense of betrayal that you don't think you'll ever get over. I can remember that sinking awful feeling in my stomach if I really reflect back, although I'd prefer not too.

 

My situation didn't drag on as long as yours did with your wife. So I was able to get past both affair episodes quicker than some.

 

You'll maybe have to groove on this idea later on since your marriage being over is too fresh in your life right now, but at some point you'll move on and things will get better for you. That's hard to see when you're in the fog of the battle but it will happen. But it will depend a lot on you and your outlook as time goes by. Others will tell you that but I've been there and it will turn a corner at some point for you.

 

A family member on my wife's side had his wife cheat about 12 years ago. She moved out and divorced him. Guess what? He's never gotten over it. He still grumbles about it off and on and in many ways has failed to move on and he's been pretty much stagnant since that day. Who's he hurting? Himself. Nobody else.

 

I knew from the start after my wife filed for divorce that I needed to move on, not hold any grudges and it was the best decision I could have made. I'm not pretending that it was easy. It wasn't. There's a lot of adjusting that goes on after you end a long term marriage. Emotions race around from high to low and you find yourself trying to figure out where it took a bad turn. But over time it gets better.

 

Life is still out there waiting for you kidd. You need to move past this awful point in your life and then seize life again. I know that sounds impossible, but it's not. And I know this won't happen to you today or tomorrow, but it will happen.

 

My second marriage has been FAR better than my first and I didn't even end my first marriage, my ex-wife did. Looking back, as sad as I was about the marriage ending, I'm a much HAPPIER person today because of what was out there waiting for me . . . a great wife and a much more compatible wife. Trust me. It can happen, and be better the second time. I don't expect you to believe that presently because you're caught in the vortex of your messy situation and it's still something that you're dealing with.

 

As for Sandie, how do you tell someone to trash the marriage because her husband held back on one minor aspect of what he revealed? How do you and I know for certain that this isn't the first time her husband cheated? How do we know for certain that if they make it together, their marriage two years from now won't be stronger and more fulfilled than it is now?

 

I don't think she needs any coaxing to keep an eye on her husband and if this trickle truth continues over the coming months, she'll have to make a decision on what she wants to do, because if that's the case, her husband will be viewed by her as a liar and a manipulator and that would be hard to recover from. I hope that's not the case.

[Kidd]

TBK, I appreciate the intent in which your posts are offered. It's clear that you are helpful to posters in a very positive way. Normally I think I am actually quite like-minded.

 

I'm not sure I suggested that she trash the M. I would suggest that her H is thr one that has thrown it in the trash and he continues to be disrespectful of his wife that is doing her damnest to trust him again. I have have particular emperical experience that suggests (again, from my perspective) that being optimistic seems unrealistic. It almost appears that he's already gotten a pass for lying and it is being brushed off as minor or somehow relieving that he was just after sex. That's a distraction. I think the OP is going to have major issues with trust and if it isn't dealt with now, if it is swept under the rug, her resentment will bring it up later in a much less controlled fashion. We don't know what will happen but I certainly reserve the right to suggest a pessimistic view (and let the damn stupid H take ownership for proving his trustworthiness now) rather than somehow thinking that sunshine and sunflowers will change this guy.

 

I appreciate the tone you have taken and your intent. I just have an intellectual disagreement with you on this one. Where is his accountability for his actions? Why is the onus on Sandi to get over it?

[StoneCold]

Where is his accountability for his actions?

 

Its his to take or not take....

 

 

Why is the onus on Sandi to get over it?

 

Because nobody else will do it for her

[findingnemo]

Nemo, I'm still blown away by what you posted about your ex-husband. What a tool! You may have seen my posting on that thread, but I think he smacks of antisocial personality disorder to varying degrees, but at this point, who cares. Good riddance! You are a special woman to survive that whole affair.

 

I kind of view your comment above the opposite actually. As we grow older and spend more time in the relationship, we ASSUME more and communicate a lot less typically . . . and men are more guilty of this than women. Unless of course we are on top of keeping the relationship fresh and very communicative, which by the 20th year of marriage, many fail to place at the top of their list.

 

Thanks, TBK. Not quite ex yet. But hopefully one day soon.

 

Maybe men communicate less as time goes by. I find many women tell me they stopped assuming things and started spelling out each detail. I can only imagine how annoying that could feel for a man because surely there are some things that are obvious even to him.

[findingnemo]

TBK and Kidd, you are having a really deep discussion here. At what point does one believe a M can't be saved? I don't really know.

 

What I know is this. It is very difficult for a MP to admit things that seem shameful. Yes it is hurtful for the BS to get TT but let's be realistic. Certain "truths" may not be a big deal once revealed but they are still difficult to admit. Sandie's H admitting that he joined a site to find a partner because he wasn't getting enough sex is just such a truth. To me, I see it as better than falling in love with a woman who was a friend or co-worker. But that's me. If it was disclosed earlier to Sandie, it may have just been part of the story. Disclosed now it may be taking up more importance than it should. The man was desperate for sex he went on a site to find a willing partner. That is the fact...isn't it? What does it mean?

 

I think it's important to recognize the importance of intent. Did he hide the truth to protect his self esteem...or did he hide the truth because he thought it would make matters worse? Is hiding becoming a member of a site equivalent to hiding how many times you had sex with your AP? What was the intent? To hide from Sandie something that would further hurt her or to hide from her something that would show her how "pathetic" he'd become?

 

So for you Sandie, it's about drawing the line and then knowing when that line has been crossed. Ultimately I think you need to accept that this is going to be hard. I don't know what kind of hard you can take, only you know that. Can you handle the fact that your H went on a site to find a sexual partner?

 

I'm so sorry you're going through this, Sandie.

[The Blue Knight]

TBK, I appreciate the intent in which your posts are offered. It's clear that you are helpful to posters in a very positive way. Normally I think I am actually quite like-minded.

 

I'm not sure I suggested that she trash the M. I would suggest that her H is thr one that has thrown it in the trash and he continues to be disrespectful of his wife that is doing her damnest to trust him again. I have have particular emperical experience that suggests (again, from my perspective) that being optimistic seems unrealistic. It almost appears that he's already gotten a pass for lying and it is being brushed off as minor or somehow relieving that he was just after sex. That's a distraction. I think the OP is going to have major issues with trust and if it isn't dealt with now, if it is swept under the rug, her resentment will bring it up later in a much less controlled fashion. We don't know what will happen but I certainly reserve the right to suggest a pessimistic view (and let the damn stupid H take ownership for proving his trustworthiness now) rather than somehow thinking that sunshine and sunflowers will change this guy.

 

I appreciate the tone you have taken and your intent. I just have an intellectual disagreement with you on this one. Where is his accountability for his actions? Why is the onus on Sandi to get over it?

 

I recall attending a wedding about the time I was going through my divorce. The gal was a friend of mine so I went by myself. I remember being so turned off by the whole ceremony, thinking, "what a crock" at the time. My belief in marriage took a huge hit as I'm sure you're feeling about now. I never saw myself in a situation where my ex-wife could ever cheat and I certainly never saw a divorce in my future at that time in my life.

 

I understand where you're at and I understand why you feel the way that you do. All I can tell you is that in time, depending on how you perceive things in the future, it will get better. I don't expect you to believe that just because I'm telling you.

 

It's easy to dwell on what you had and what you lost kidd. I did as well. I just want to tell you that there is life after your marriage ends.

 

Sandie strikes me as a very sharp gal. I think aside from probably being very well equipped in advanced water-boarding techniques she will be on top of watching her husband's behavior, his whereabouts, and his truthfulness. I've known plenty of women who can't even figure out that their husbands were serial cheaters, and if they do figure it out, the husband just hands them a line and they take that at face value without much question. Sometimes I think it's willful ignorance. Sandie isn't that kind of a woman.

 

So yes, I do see some marriages worth saving. It would be much easier if I knew her and her husband on a personal level because I could be more specific about my feelings on the matter. But based on what she's posted and what she's reporting about her husband I think she's doing the right thing. But I'm sure that you agree with me that she has to make those decisions. Take care buddy.

[Kidd]

I recall attending a wedding about the time I was going through my divorce. The gal was a friend of mine so I went by myself. I remember being so turned off by the whole ceremony, thinking, "what a crock" at the time. My belief in marriage took a huge hit as I'm sure you're feeling about now. I never saw myself in a situation where my ex-wife could ever cheat and I certainly never saw a divorce in my future at that time in my life.

 

I understand where you're at and I understand why you feel the way that you do. All I can tell you is that in time, depending on how you perceive things in the future, it will get better. I don't expect you to believe that just because I'm telling you.

 

It's easy to dwell on what you had and what you lost kidd. I did as well. I just want to tell you that there is life after your marriage ends.

 

Sandie strikes me as a very sharp gal. I think aside from probably being very well equipped in advanced water-boarding techniques she will be on top of watching her husband's behavior, his whereabouts, and his truthfulness. I've known plenty of women who can't even figure out that their husbands were serial cheaters, and if they do figure it out, the husband just hands them a line and they take that at face value without much question. Sometimes I think it's willful ignorance. Sandie isn't that kind of a woman.

 

So yes, I do see some marriages worth saving. It would be much easier if I knew her and her husband on a personal level because I could be more specific about my feelings on the matter. But based on what she's posted and what she's reporting about her husband I think she's doing the right thing. But I'm sure that you agree with me that she has to make those decisions. Take care buddy.

 

No worries. Hope Sandi's disconnect is not the result of my posts (I was pretty pissed and negative) but instead because of connection issues. I wouldn't fault her for staying. The damn liars just tick me off. Here Sandi is giving him a huge gift, overlooking a huge betrayal, just asking for honesty, and the dirt ag has to lie to her again and send her back to square 1. Once again, the WS screws up and the BS pays the price.

[2sunny]

I'm a realist - and base everything on evidence and honesty.

 

I hate to say it - but I don't see where her husband is FORTHCOMING with his truth!

 

Since he hasn't just put it right up front - it really leaves me wondering what else he isn't telling...

 

I've been through that. It sucks. It really should be up to HER HUSBAND to repair the damage HE CAUSED!

 

If he's not putting in 150% - then why should she do the effort?

[The Blue Knight]

Nemo,

 

I like your word "intent" and for that reason you kind of nailed it I think but let me spin it slightly differently than you did, although I agree with everything you said. Determining "intent" is important in a broader way that you describe as well. Coincidentally "intent" is how the law views criminal acts when determining guilt vs innocence from those where no intent exists.

 

Clearly, Sandie's husband showed intent to cheat. The question becomes was his intent to find a temporary sex partner for what was overwhelmingly lacking in his marriage, or was his intent to cheat ongoingly with this woman or perhaps with multiple women . . . and that begs the question brought up by kidd and others, was this the first time he's done it?

 

Sandie made it clear that their sexual intimacy was for the most part dead and nonexistent.

 

To my way of thinking, a serial cheater stays busy cheating even when he has a regular intimacy at home. Serial cheaters "intent" is to have sex with as many women as opportunities provide them. I've known of several men like this and their home life is by all appearances normal, and their wives seem happy. But those same wives aren't aware of the dual life their husbands live.

 

Contrastingly, the spouse who lacks intimacy in their marriage is monogamous by nature and isn't built for more than one sexual partner at one time. But eventually, the environment that they find themselves stuck in poses a crucial dilemma for them. Do they simply go without or do they find an outlet? You either have frustrated married men who just become bitter over the issue (plenty here on loveshack), or they finally break down and find something that acts as a sexual stand-in stunt double for their wives.

 

That to me is the primary difference between the serial cheater and the monogamous cheater and I think that's why some marriages are worth saving while many are not. I don't believe any normal thinking person would condone cheating, but we're all smart enough here to realize that there are times when the dynamics and the circumstances of the marriage lend themselves to creating a not-so-healthy marriage "environment" that leads to one spouse stepping out on the other spouse.

 

So yes, there was most definitely intent by Sandie's husband, but the broader question to determine is which "intent" is he guilty of, because in my book, they are worlds apart.

 

I'll stand by my belief that's he's a naturally monogamous man who had to find a release. Perhaps I'm wrong. Time will tell.

[findingnemo]

TBK, thanks for clarifying which intent it is that Sandie needs to determine. I agree with all you've said.

 

I too think that SO FAR Sandie's H was looking for sex. I think that was his "intent". I've asked this before. If a M is working in every sense but the sex, is the lack of sex or even lack of satisfying sex a good enough reason to break up a family? I personally don't think so. I prefer to find a solution that keeps the M intact.

 

But that's just me. I'm from a culture that recognizes that a sexless M is a problem that can be solved by agreement. The solution is to have a one sided open M. The idea is to preserve the M and allow each party to be happy in that M. Usually it is determined that one won't/can't have sex for medical reasons. A woman may have a hormonal imbalance and lose interest in sex. A man may become impotent and be unable to...you know. Whatever the case, the couple can agree to having a one sided open M. Men have even been known to allow their wives to conceive by other men so that they become fathers.

 

I'm just trying to show you that where I'm from there is a view that cheating will definitely happen in a sexless M if the parties don't discuss and agree to a solution. So if one cheated in a sexless M, it's very likely not seen as a bad thing but rather as an inevitability. However, once discovered and an open M is agreed upon, you are expected to fully disclose to your spouse the facts.

 

Serial cheating on the other hand is bad, bad, bad... But that's a story for another day.

[beenburned]

TBK,

 

Great post!

 

So true! It's critical to determine the WS's intent when cheating in order to determine whether it's worth it to try and save the marriage.

 

Even though the percentage of serial cheaters are fairly low compared to the average cheater, some are very good at living a total double life. They are very convincing with all their lies, both to the wife and OW.

[SandieBeach]

TBK, Kidd, Nemo, and everyone, thank you so much for your posts. I've been away, and a little disconnected (my head can only handle so much at a time), but I am back now, ready to keep dealing with this crap. Your exchanges have been pretty much what has been going on in my head.

 

Kidd, I really appreciate your honest posts - I can see that you know exactly how all of this feels. It really makes you lose faith in someone you truly care about. I was not offended by anything you said. Of course, being with someone who will continue to lie is upsetting in itself, but I am not in denial - I know that that is a possibility. TBK and Nemo, you two are my optimists and I do feel hopeful when I read your posts. Of course, as others pointed out, you don't know my husband, so you can't be sure that he is not a serial cheater kind. On the other hand, I have been pretty objective in telling my story, so you do have a good idea about his behavior.

 

His explanation as to why he lied about how they met was because he believed it would be the last straw for me (and he said he didn't want to lose me) and because he was ashamed that he did something so "awful." He signed up for AM about a month before he had an affair, and canceled it a couple of days after meeting this woman (which was last summer), so he did not continue chatting with women on there (his credit card showed cancelation). He was on other online chats (I have known about this since I learned about the affair), but there is absolutely no evidence of other affairs some years prior to this woman (of course, I can beat my head against the wall and wonder about the possibility of his cheating before, but I have no way of proving, so I choose not to dwell on that). After I found out about the way they met, and turned into Glenn Close from Fatal Attraction , he told me a few other pieces of information on his own. I would have no way of finding them out on my own, so his telling me shows that he is willing to be more transparent I guess. Other than how they met, which was a big deal, he has given me the most damaging information around the time I discovered the affair, so it's not like he was hiding a ton of information about her. In any event, I needed to know he was fully honest with me before I could even begin to forgive. I don't really know what to think these days - there is certainly openness, but like I said, I am not in denial thinking he is a truth-telling angel. I have not made up my mind if I am staying in this marriage, and he knows that, and I am taking all of this day by day.

[The Blue Knight]

TBK, thanks for clarifying which intent it is that Sandie needs to determine. I agree with all you've said.

 

I too think that SO FAR Sandie's H was looking for sex. I think that was his "intent". I've asked this before. If a M is working in every sense but the sex, is the lack of sex or even lack of satisfying sex a good enough reason to break up a family? I personally don't think so. I prefer to find a solution that keeps the M intact.

But that's just me. I'm from a culture that recognizes that a sexless M is a problem that can be solved by agreement. The solution is to have a one sided open M. The idea is to preserve the M and allow each party to be happy in that M. Usually it is determined that one won't/can't have sex for medical reasons. A woman may have a hormonal imbalance and lose interest in sex. A man may become impotent and be unable to...you know. Whatever the case, the couple can agree to having a one sided open M. Men have even been known to allow their wives to conceive by other men so that they become fathers.

 

I'm just trying to show you that where I'm from there is a view that cheating will definitely happen in a sexless M if the parties don't discuss and agree to a solution. So if one cheated in a sexless M, it's very likely not seen as a bad thing but rather as an inevitability. However, once discovered and an open M is agreed upon, you are expected to fully disclose to your spouse the facts.

 

Serial cheating on the other hand is bad, bad, bad... But that's a story for another day.

 

Lack of satisfying sex in a marriage can be fixed I believe if communication is open and people can speak freely which unfortunately is not always the case. And that's not a reason to cheat. Lack of sex of any type is going to lead a considerable number of people to cheat while married.

 

It's just human chemistry and human behavior. We seek to love and be loved. If we feel unloved, or that we are with someone who rejects our love toward them, you can pretty much count on an affair at some point in the future.

 

Your cultural differences wouldn't add up in the U.S. I'm afraid nemo. If a sexless marriage could be solved by simple agreement we wouldn't be having most of these discussions on loveshack.