Dealing With Husband's Affair

[StoneCold]

TBK, if you found yourself in that position, wouldn't you discuss it with your W? I'm not talking about ordering her to have sex or else... Try to find out from her why she doesn't want to have sex anymore? Wouldn't you tell her that this is a big problem that needs a solution pronto? Wouldn't you help her work on it by either changing the way you do things or taking her to a gynecologist if there is need for that?

 

Going out and having an A because your W refused to have sex with you without making her aware of the grave consequences is not right. Shouldn't one give her the chance to explain why? Should she have the chance to correct the problem before a MM has an A?

 

That, my friend, is what I call communication. And my problem is that people don't communicate enough and then go out and have As and seem surprised that their spouses feel betrayed and in some instances violated.

 

I'm sorry nemo but IMHO... that isnt communication... thats one person bending over backwards while the other sits on their duff and chooses to ignore.

 

In many (not all of course) of these cases the BS has been offered...on numerous occaisions to fix a very clear problem; but chose not to. Really nemo... do you really have to voice the consequences? you get into heated arguments over this regularly, not having sex, not close, division at home, tension so thick in the air you could scoop and spread it like chool whip..... whats all this going to lead to at some point? A trip to Disney world?

[The Blue Knight]

TBK, if you found yourself in that position, wouldn't you discuss it with your W? I'm not talking about ordering her to have sex or else... Try to find out from her why she doesn't want to have sex anymore? Wouldn't you tell her that this is a big problem that needs a solution pronto? Wouldn't you help her work on it by either changing the way you do things or taking her to a gynecologist if there is need for that?

 

Going out and having an A because your W refused to have sex with you without making her aware of the grave consequences is not right. Shouldn't one give her the chance to explain why? Should she have the chance to correct the problem before a MM has an A?

 

That, my friend, is what I call communication. And my problem is that people don't communicate enough and then go out and have As and seem surprised that their spouses feel betrayed and in some instances violated.

In my case I did talk to my wife about it. But my issue was her seldom stirring up intimacy and me feeling like the burden was always mine. Stonecold has a different issue entirely.

 

To answer your question nemo, absolutely if the sex was non-existent I would have had a very direct conversation and asked what was needed for the relationship to change immediately. I do understand where Stonecold is coming from because you don't want someone giving you sex because you asked for it. But I would ask for an explanation of what the problem was.

 

As to whether it's a pride issue for him, that I can't say.

 

Personally, if things were that bad, I would sit down and explain the realities of the situation and be very candid and direct. I WOULD NOT exist in a sexless marriage. To me it violates the marriage contract. I'd rather get out of it and start over.

Edited March 25, 2012 by The Blue Knight

[The Blue Knight]

Sorry, if we kind of segued off onto other subjects here Sandie. You've been quiet the last day or so. Hopefully that means you and the hubby are "busy" getting things right again.

[SandieBeach]

OK Nemo heres what I want you to do.... go clear your head of this conversation. Then come back and read this dialogue only:

 

Him: "If you dont start having sex with me I'm going to get it somewhere else"

 

Her: "Ok, Ok...dont do that...lets have sex"

 

Hows that read to you? Granted its a very simplified discussion but the fundamentals are sound. Essentially it reads like someone having to threaten one to have sex with them.....not a good look and a very slippery slope; you dont ever want to be on that slope..especially as a man these days. If the girl agrees to have sex after that I would be so turned off from it and I think this applies to many others as well.

 

I guess you could be crystal clear but I dont think its necessary. Bringing the issue up multiple times is message enough, I think

 

Of course, when you put it like that, it wouldn't work at all. And not necessarily because the spouse not getting sex will be turned off. I think the spouse who is threatened will probably say "F you, go wherever you want!" If two married people have crappy communication, this kind of a threat would just further push them apart. I say this because I think my H and I were those two people with crappy communication, and these days I often think that we needed something awful to happen to start taking each other seriously. I honestly can't say that if he had come to me and let me know he was thinking about having an affair, I would be shaken enough to take it as a serious threat.

[SandieBeach]

In my case I did talk to my wife about it. But my issue was her seldom stirring up intimacy and me feeling like the burden was always mine. Stonecold has a different issue entirely.

 

To answer your question nemo, absolutely if the sex was non-existent I would have had a very direct conversation and asked what was needed for the relationship to change immediately. I do understand where Stonecold is coming from because you don't want someone giving you sex because you asked for it. But I would ask for an explanation of what the problem was.

 

As to whether it's a pride issue for him, that I can't say.

 

Personally, if things were that bad, I would sit down and explain the realities of the situation and be very candid and direct. I WOULD NOT exist in a sexless marriage. To me it violates the marriage contract. I'd rather get out of it and start over.

 

I agree that there should always be a conversation about marriage issues. Not a threat, but an actual discussion where both spouses can be honest. I see StoneCold's point as well, but I do believe when one person chooses to have an affair without ever trying to have a frank conversation, it's a cowardly thing to do.

[SandieBeach]

Sorry, if we kind of segued off onto other subjects here Sandie. You've been quiet the last day or so. Hopefully that means you and the hubby are "busy" getting things right again.

 

Nah, I sad some technical challenges with my Internet. We are still in our ups and downs stage.

[SandieBeach]

So, tonight I got my first "trickle truth" - how he met the woman. The story was that he met her in a bar where she was with her friends, but in fact, he met her on this online site where people sign up to meet someone to have an affair. I am bothered by how he met her, but obviously I learned about things way worse than this in the last few weeks. I guess my biggest issue is that this is a lie that I am learning about after 6 weeks, and am simply devastated. I asked him over and over again how he met her, and he always told the same false story.

 

He confessed after I found a profile similar to his totally by chance (I should have been a detective! ), and I flipped. My reaction was really, really awful, but I could not help it. SO...now that I am calmer, I feel that I overreacted to the confession. Even though my detective skills (and a bit of good luck) made me suspicious enough to ask about it, he did tell me about it, showed me the account for that online site that he canceled.

 

Yet - why didn't he just tell me this?? I feel like we are back to square one....TBK, Frozensprouts, Nemo and everyone else (especially the reasonable commentators ), am I overreacting??

[Steen719]

I divorced my xh October 2011 and finally was able to move at the end of January. He is a cheater...did it 15 years ago and then again last year. It is a long, crappy story and I won't go into it here. Anywayyy...here is the deal. I still have not gotten the entire story. Most of what I got, I detected. Like you, I was a good detective and so I discovered things, asked him about them, he denied them and then finally, he told me when confronted with the indisputable proof. Here is a really crazy thing. He is still lying to me. We are divorced and I have as little contact with him as I can. But when I have been at the house to get things (thankfully, that is all done...but there was stuff in the attic I could not get), he has made me wait for him to do what I need and in the meantime, he has talked to me ..blah, blah, blah. And he lies about stuff that is so stupid...about the EA OW and about his current gf, who he began dating either before the divorce or right after, and just about anything he wants to. Why? It is so stupid. It doesn't even matter now, but he still lies. If one time during the last 10 months, I had ever gotten a straight answer or the truth from him, I might have had at least some (not much) respect for him. You know..that Rod Stewart song...

If I listened long enough to you

I'd find a way to believe that it's all true

Knowing that you lied straight-faced while I cried

Still I look to find a reason to believe

 

That says it all. Pain, I have plenty..23 years down the drain but I can live with it. At least I don't lie to myself about him anymore. That trickle truth will destroy you.

[findingnemo]

So, tonight I got my first "trickle truth" - how he met the woman. The story was that he met her in a bar where she was with her friends, but in fact, he met her on this online site where people sign up to meet someone to have an affair. I am bothered by how he met her, but obviously I learned about things way worse than this in the last few weeks. I guess my biggest issue is that this is a lie that I am learning about after 6 weeks, and am simply devastated. I asked him over and over again how he met her, and he always told the same false story.

 

He confessed after I found a profile similar to his totally by chance (I should have been a detective! ), and I flipped. My reaction was really, really awful, but I could not help it. SO...now that I am calmer, I feel that I overreacted to the confession. Even though my detective skills (and a bit of good luck) made me suspicious enough to ask about it, he did tell me about it, showed me the account for that online site that he canceled.

 

Yet - why didn't he just tell me this?? I feel like we are back to square one....TBK, Frozensprouts, Nemo and everyone else (especially the reasonable commentators ), am I overreacting??

 

Trickle truth... I was going to post asking how you were doing, Sandie. I can see that things aren't so good.

 

Did you overreact? Not in my opinion. I believe that if your H wants to reconcile, he needs to stop thinking of himself. Stop protecting himself by keeping details like those hidden. It's not abnormal if you think about it. He knew that you would be hurt by the fact that he was online looking for an A, so he hid it.

 

Explain to him that trickle truth only makes things worse because it opens up the wound all over again...as if Dday has just happened. It slows down your healing. Maybe he hasn't thought of it this way.

 

Now... The fact that he went on a site to look for an A is disturbing to say the least. But I'm not sure what to make of it. Was he that desperate for sex? Let me try to explain my thinking a bit. Many people have As with people they know. The friendship sort of grows into something else. When someone goes online in search of an AP, I assume that this person wants the sex but is clear that their M is paramount. It's not that he fell in love with the OW gradually. Put like that it sounds like a better thing to me. Yet, I find it perturbs me that someone would go to such lengths and have sex with a total stranger.

 

Talk to him about trickle truth, Sandie.

[The Blue Knight]

Of course, when you put it like that, it wouldn't work at all. And not necessarily because the spouse not getting sex will be turned off. I think the spouse who is threatened will probably say "F you, go wherever you want!" If two married people have crappy communication, this kind of a threat would just further push them apart. I say this because I think my H and I were those two people with crappy communication, and these days I often think that we needed something awful to happen to start taking each other seriously. I honestly can't say that if he had come to me and let me know he was thinking about having an affair, I would be shaken enough to take it as a serious threat.

 

Again, refreshing truth! I don't know that most people would ever admit this in light of their spouse cheating on them. I like your candor and honesty Sandie. I think most people would have spun it in the opposite direction to make themselves look open and understanding after being victimized.

[The Blue Knight]

So, tonight I got my first "trickle truth" - how he met the woman. The story was that he met her in a bar where she was with her friends, but in fact, he met her on this online site where people sign up to meet someone to have an affair. I am bothered by how he met her, but obviously I learned about things way worse than this in the last few weeks. I guess my biggest issue is that this is a lie that I am learning about after 6 weeks, and am simply devastated. I asked him over and over again how he met her, and he always told the same false story.

 

He confessed after I found a profile similar to his totally by chance (I should have been a detective! ), and I flipped. My reaction was really, really awful, but I could not help it. SO...now that I am calmer, I feel that I overreacted to the confession. Even though my detective skills (and a bit of good luck) made me suspicious enough to ask about it, he did tell me about it, showed me the account for that online site that he canceled.

 

Yet - why didn't he just tell me this?? I feel like we are back to square one....TBK, Frozensprouts, Nemo and everyone else (especially the reasonable commentators ), am I overreacting??

 

Yeah, maybe you're in the wrong line of work.

 

This is the problem with hiding anything, by the time it comes out, it feels like you're starting over and that you've made zero progress.

 

No, you're not overreacting Sandie. He said he was coming clean weeks ago and he didn't. I've been in his corner hoping he was being candid with you and he hid this particular point in the story from you, which shows he was more active in his affair than he'd first let on. I'm sure the loneliness and the lacking sexual activity in the marriage was still a factor, but this makes him more of an accessory before the fact than a guy who just walked into something by pure happenstance.

 

I'm disappointed in him. I'd like to scold him for letting me down and you as well. But I'm sure you probably lit into him for the two of us.

[SandieBeach]

Yeah, maybe you're in the wrong line of work.

 

This is the problem with hiding anything, by the time it comes out, it feels like you're starting over and that you've made zero progress.

 

No, you're not overreacting Sandie. He said he was coming clean weeks ago and he didn't. I've been in his corner hoping he was being candid with you and he hid this particular point in the story from you, which shows he was more active in his affair than he'd first let on. I'm sure the loneliness and the lacking sexual activity in the marriage was still a factor, but this makes him more of an accessory before the fact than a guy who just walked into something by pure happenstance.

 

I'm disappointed in him. I'd like to scold him for letting me down and you as well. But I'm sure you probably lit into him for the two of us.

 

Oh, I lit into him alright . I told him before that even the smallest lie would set us back, and he failed. I am literally this "-" close to getting out of here, and am simply sick to my stomach. I also got a couple of other new truths last night - disappointing but he gave them to me on his own. I learned about his email account used for these sites (he told me about this on his own), and he deleted the account in front of me. His reasons for keeping this from me: he was so scared of losing me and if he had told me about it, he believed I would have left him. In my opinion, I would have been less likely to leave him if I knew about this at the beginning. Now we are back to square 1 and I don't think I can start over. He acted as if he were trying hard to prove he wanted me, and I certainly can't fault him for anything done in the last 6 weeks (other than keeping this from me).

 

As for how he met her (and to answer to Nemo's point), my husband and I were barely having sex for the last several years). He wanted to meet someone for sex, but he and the OW created this fantasy where they talked a lot and also became friends. The way I see it, my H needs to have an emotional connection with a person, so after he met her, they created that connection. In some weird way, I am relieved that it was just about sex, but sleeping with the stranger part is horrifying (BTW, he and I went to get tested several days after I found out about the affair, so things are fine there - luckily).

 

He told me that he canceled the online account several days after he met her, and his credit card statement confirms that. It's just so that the account was still searchable and I was paranoid enough to look for it. I have no idea what to do now...All of this would have been salvageable if he had told me weeks ago, but his argument is that he was afraid of my reaction and losing me. To his defense, I am NOT very easy to tell when it comes to these things. I have been understanding and did not react when he shared certain things, but I have been constantly interrogating him for weeks now and questioning if he is telling the truth. In other words, imagine a defendant on the witness stand and a cutthroat, badgering prosecutor. I am neither making excuses for him or exaggerating there, but he knows that if he lies, this side of me comes out.

[SandieBeach]

No, you're not overreacting Sandie. He said he was coming clean weeks ago and he didn't. I've been in his corner hoping he was being candid with you and he hid this particular point in the story from you, which shows he was more active in his affair than he'd first let on. I'm sure the loneliness and the lacking sexual activity in the marriage was still a factor, but this makes him more of an accessory before the fact than a guy who just walked into something by pure happenstance.

 

I'm disappointed in him. I'd like to scold him for letting me down and you as well. But I'm sure you probably lit into him for the two of us.

 

One thing, TBK - I never thought he walked into it by chance. He told me that he initiated contact with this woman (he met her for coffee, and then 45 days later or so, he met up with her again for sex, which checks out). He always maintained that he went out to get sex. It was premeditated and rotten, but, like I said, I was capable and even willing to do the same, and decided to give him a chance. Am I seriously stupid for trying to give him a chance?

[Ninja'sHusband]

Hey Sandie, I haven't posted much on your thread, just because I don't identify very well with the genders being reversed...and your H seemed so...welll too good to be true. I think I did post encouraging you to snoop and to watch for TT. Ugh, I was really hoping he was being honest...but was worried. For me it was helpful to know that TT is normal. I wish I had gotten involved in these sites a little earlier... I had trouble with all the acronyms lol. Anyway, I guess just try to picture how hard it would be to confess...I talked to an old friend of mine who I think had an A after 16 years of M. She told me the same thing, that it was probably tremendously difficult for my W to talk about any of the particulars of the A. My W made it sound more accidental than it actually was. The truth was that her an OM had discussed and planned on starting a relationship on an airplane. I'm sure she didn't want me to know that. I bet your H was trying to minimize the damage by not letting you on to the fact that he was actively looking for an A. He was sex starved...I bet a lot of guys would do the same thing. You are right, he should have come to you and been completely honest. "I'm so damn horny I'm thinking about going onto a singles site!" If only any of us had that warning...

 

Chin up, the anger is ok...the lies are the *worst* thing. It took me much more effort to come to terms with the lies than the A itself. Yeah you are back to square 1. Understandable...unfortunately the WS may not feel that way. My W sure didn't, she didn't give a rats ass... She figured she had worked really hard to heal the M and there was a limit. Grrrrr...hopefully your WH takes better responsibility for his TT than my WW did. If anything will promote jealousy, mistrust, snooping, etc, it's TT. He needs to realize this is not small, it's huge.

[SandieBeach]

Hey Sandie, I haven't posted much on your thread, just because I don't identify very well with the genders being reversed...and your H seemed so...welll too good to be true. I think I did post encouraging you to snoop and to watch for TT. Ugh, I was really hoping he was being honest...but was worried. For me it was helpful to know that TT is normal. I wish I had gotten involved in these sites a little earlier... I had trouble with all the acronyms lol. Anyway, I guess just try to picture how hard it would be to confess...I talked to an old friend of mine who I think had an A after 16 years of M. She told me the same thing, that it was probably tremendously difficult for my W to talk about any of the particulars of the A. My W made it sound more accidental than it actually was. The truth was that her an OM had discussed and planned on starting a relationship on an airplane. I'm sure she didn't want me to know that. I bet your H was trying to minimize the damage by not letting you on to the fact that he was actively looking for an A. He was sex starved...I bet a lot of guys would do the same thing. You are right, he should have come to you and been completely honest. "I'm so damn horny I'm thinking about going onto a singles site!" If only any of us had that warning...

 

Chin up, the anger is ok...the lies are the *worst* thing. It took me much more effort to come to terms with the lies than the A itself. Yeah you are back to square 1. Understandable...unfortunately the WS may not feel that way. My W sure didn't, she didn't give a rats ass... She figured she had worked really hard to heal the M and there was a limit. Grrrrr...hopefully your WH takes better responsibility for his TT than my WW did. If anything will promote jealousy, mistrust, snooping, etc, it's TT. He needs to realize this is not small, it's huge.

 

Thank you so much, NS for your thoughtful and encouraging post. I have noticed your wisdom in other posts - it's amazing what we learn about ourselves when confronted with such pain.

 

I figured there was going to be trickle truth, and I could understand how hard it would be for my husband to open up. He seems ashamed of his actions, and when he tried telling me some things, I did not always react calmly (though until last night when I found out about more stuff, my reaction was scary!). An interesting thing is that when I found out some new evidence, which could have been a coincidence (except for that I stopped believing in coincidences 6 weeks ago!), and after badgering him, he gave me more information that I thought I was going to get. If he had done that before, I would have been hurt, of course, but with all the new TT, I think I turned into Glen Close from Fatal Attraction (except I was the wife), and went all scary angry

 

I again approached him this morning and reiterated how this "trickle truth" is damaging everything he is trying to build, so I told him I wanted him to think about if there was anything else that I should know and that learning later would upset me. I promised I would not go all psycho on him, so we had an interesting conversation about a few more things that happened. These were minor details, really - the affair was the biggest issue. I thanked him (how frickin' civil of me, right?? ) for being honest and told him that while this new info is small stuff, if I learned about it at some later time, it would drive a nail in our coffin, so to speak, and there would be nothing left to work out.

 

I honestly don't know where to go from here...

[The Blue Knight]

Hey Sandie' date=' I haven't posted much on your thread, just because I don't identify very well with the genders being reversed...and your H seemed so...welll too good to be true. I think I did post encouraging you to snoop and to watch for TT. Ugh, I was really hoping he was being honest...but was worried. For me it was helpful to know that TT is normal. I wish I had gotten involved in these sites a little earlier... I had trouble with all the acronyms lol. Anyway, I guess just try to picture how hard it would be to confess...I talked to an old friend of mine who I think had an A after 16 years of M. She told me the same thing, that it was probably tremendously difficult for my W to talk about any of the particulars of the A. My W made it sound more accidental than it actually was. The truth was that her an OM had discussed and planned on starting a relationship on an airplane. I'm sure she didn't want me to know that. I bet your H was trying to minimize the damage by not letting you on to the fact that he was actively looking for an A. He was sex starved...I bet a lot of guys would do the same thing. [b']You are right, he should have come to you and been completely honest. "I'm so damn horny I'm thinking about going onto a singles site!" If only any of us had that warning...

[/b]

Chin up, the anger is ok...the lies are the *worst* thing. It took me much more effort to come to terms with the lies than the A itself. Yeah you are back to square 1. Understandable...unfortunately the WS may not feel that way. My W sure didn't, she didn't give a rats ass... She figured she had worked really hard to heal the M and there was a limit. Grrrrr...hopefully your WH takes better responsibility for his TT than my WW did. If anything will promote jealousy, mistrust, snooping, etc, it's TT. He needs to realize this is not small, it's huge.

 

Ninja'sHusband, very good and insightful post. I ask this question however concerning what I underlined above. How many of us would have actually acted had we had that straightforward of a warning from our spouse?

 

My ex-wife's affair (short lived) had nothing to do with sex since that was a strong part of our relationship. It had to do with some other things lacking in her own personality going back to issues from childhood. I bring this up because had she said something like that to me I'm not sure I would have taken her very serious. Perhaps I would have but to know her and how "flighty" her thoughts were I doubt that I would have given it much deep thought.

 

Sandie mentioned the same thing basically admitting that if her husband had said something like that, it may not have made a difference to her at that moment in time.

 

I think most spouses would react with contempt of their spouse said "I'm so horny that if we don't get this squared away once and for all I'm very likely going to cheat on you." My reaction would have probably been, "okay, whatever" and I think a lot of spouses, particularly in already estranged relationships, would treat that as an unwarranted threat.

 

Don't get me wrong. I think we'd all have preferred we got a warning like that. At least then it was up to us whether or not we wanted to act on it. But knowing how human pride works, particularly in cold and limited-sexual marriages, I just believe it may have not had the intended reaction a lot of people would like to think.

[The Blue Knight]

One thing, TBK - I never thought he walked into it by chance. He told me that he initiated contact with this woman (he met her for coffee, and then 45 days later or so, he met up with her again for sex, which checks out). He always maintained that he went out to get sex. It was premeditated and rotten, but, like I said, I was capable and even willing to do the same, and decided to give him a chance. Am I seriously stupid for trying to give him a chance?

 

 

Hi Sandie,

 

I had to run off to work after posting my last message before the sun came up this a.m. but I thought about it further driving in to work. As I stated, I'm really disappointed in Mr. Sandie. For a couple of reasons. 1. I was hoping he was smart enough to realize that given a second chance, he'd come completely clean, but as ninja'shusband stated, it's a rare occurrence and the truth comes out in small segments instead. 2. Given a second chance to rekindle what he lost with you over the years, I wanted to believe that he wouldn't screw it up and now he has.

 

I think all of us who were victims of affairs experienced the trickle truth syndrome in varying degrees.

 

You of course have to decide if it's a deal breaker. Having been through what you're going through I felt very much like you. I'd hear "the truth" and ask point blank if there was anything more that I was going to find out, and she'd say "no" and of course I'd find out more days or weeks after the fact.

 

You have to establish what your limit is going to be. Do you tell him it's time for one last sit down to come completely clean on every last detail ??? . . . or do you tell him that this time crossed the line . . . the point of no return? It's your personal threshold that's in question here.

 

For me personally (having been through it with the ex) it would probably be a deal breaker, but my tolerance level is different now than it was 20 years ago and I don't have super young kids to consider as I did back then. It's also poignant that my ex had other emotional issues that are in no way connected to your husband so it's kind of an apples and oranges comparison.

 

Have you considered water boarding to get the final bits of truth from him? At this point I might help you tie him down while you pour the water.

 

You're question is one that only you can answer. Are you seriously stupid to give him another chance? Hmmmm . . . Only you can determine your personal limit my dear. I wouldn't judge you as being stupid for staying or for leaving him because there is no truly right answer despite some of the iron-clad in-concrete absolutist answers I see here on loveshack on this issue.

 

I think you'll know when the time is right to call it quits. I think everyone who has been victimized by an affair and can't make it work despite several attempts eventually comes to terms with the fact that it's not going to work and at that point, they just know it's time to move on. If you feel in your heart that he's still worth it, then hang on and keep fighting for the marriage.

 

[The Blue Knight]

Thank you so much, NS for your thoughtful and encouraging post. I have noticed your wisdom in other posts - it's amazing what we learn about ourselves when confronted with such pain.

 

I figured there was going to be trickle truth, and I could understand how hard it would be for my husband to open up. He seems ashamed of his actions, and when he tried telling me some things, I did not always react calmly (though until last night when I found out about more stuff, my reaction was scary!). An interesting thing is that when I found out some new evidence, which could have been a coincidence (except for that I stopped believing in coincidences 6 weeks ago!), and after badgering him, he gave me more information that I thought I was going to get. If he had done that before, I would have been hurt, of course, but with all the new TT, I think I turned into Glen Close from Fatal Attraction (except I was the wife), and went all scary angry

 

I again approached him this morning and reiterated how this "trickle truth" is damaging everything he is trying to build, so I told him I wanted him to think about if there was anything else that I should know and that learning later would upset me. I promised I would not go all psycho on him, so we had an interesting conversation about a few more things that happened. These were minor details, really - the affair was the biggest issue. I thanked him (how frickin' civil of me, right?? ) for being honest and told him that while this new info is small stuff, if I learned about it at some later time, it would drive a nail in our coffin, so to speak, and there would be nothing left to work out.

 

I honestly don't know where to go from here...

Just don't go Lorena Bobbitt on the man Sandie.

 

Hey, a more serious question. You said the profile he set up sounded like him when you were doing your cyber detective work. I'm assuming he was on Ashley Madison, or Fling or one of those sights. Did he happen to post what he felt he lacked at home or in his relationship with you? Or wasn't that part still available?

[Ninja'sHusband]

Thanks TBK and Sandie

 

TBK, well maybe they shouldn't threaten an A....I dunno.... My W came to me with a list of issues a couple months into her A, I reacted and worked on all of them. I actually felt really good about it. She seemed to be satisfied too...I didn't know it was already too late though

 

She had come to me other times too and I had responded. I used to sometimes sleep downstairs if I had been up till like 4AM playing a game or working on music. She told me it was killing our relationship. I stopped doing that, for the last 7 years I've always come to bed, no matter how late. I've had her hide games from me, destroyed discs, etc. I think a common complaint is that spouses relapse, and I've certainly relapsed many times...but dern it, remind me if I'm off track again. Don't give up and go have an A!

 

Ok, here's what I think...if you STILL can't get the point across with "our relationship is in trouble" which is what usually got through to me...THEN be HONEST and say, "Honey I'm really serious, I'm starting to think about other people and I don't want to go there because I love you." Something like that. Tone of voice is a big part of it. I think the dry text may not express how I pictured it being said.

[SandieBeach]

Hi Sandie,

 

I had to run off to work after posting my last message before the sun came up this a.m. but I thought about it further driving in to work. As I stated, I'm really disappointed in Mr. Sandie. For a couple of reasons. 1. I was hoping he was smart enough to realize that given a second chance, he'd come completely clean, but as ninja'shusband stated, it's a rare occurrence and the truth comes out in small segments instead. 2. Given a second chance to rekindle what he lost with you over the years, I wanted to believe that he wouldn't screw it up and now he has.

 

I think all of us who were victims of affairs experienced the trickle truth syndrome in varying degrees.

 

You of course have to decide if it's a deal breaker. Having been through what you're going through I felt very much like you. I'd hear "the truth" and ask point blank if there was anything more that I was going to find out, and she'd say "no" and of course I'd find out more days or weeks after the fact.

 

You have to establish what your limit is going to be. Do you tell him it's time for one last sit down to come completely clean on every last detail ??? . . . or do you tell him that this time crossed the line . . . the point of no return? It's your personal threshold that's in question here.

 

For me personally (having been through it with the ex) it would probably be a deal breaker, but my tolerance level is different now than it was 20 years ago and I don't have super young kids to consider as I did back then. It's also poignant that my ex had other emotional issues that are in no way connected to your husband so it's kind of an apples and oranges comparison.

 

Have you considered water boarding to get the final bits of truth from him? At this point I might help you tie him down while you pour the water.

 

You're question is one that only you can answer. Are you seriously stupid to give him another chance? Hmmmm . . . Only you can determine your personal limit my dear. I wouldn't judge you as being stupid for staying or for leaving him because there is no truly right answer despite some of the iron-clad in-concrete absolutist answers I see here on loveshack on this issue.

 

I think you'll know when the time is right to call it quits. I think everyone who has been victimized by an affair and can't make it work despite several attempts eventually comes to terms with the fact that it's not going to work and at that point, they just know it's time to move on. If you feel in your heart that he's still worth it, then hang on and keep fighting for the marriage.

 

 

Hmmmm...water boarding....I think I might take you up on that, TBK . The funny thing is that I just knew there were other things that he was not telling me about. I was not naive in thinking that he confessed to everything (I do have to point out that he has been very open about the affair with her, so there were no surprises there). I do know him pretty well (clearly not as well as I thought), so certain parts of the story did not make sense to me. Perhaps that's why I went digging for more and found out about potentially incriminating evidence . By the way, he gave me his screen name for one of his sites, so that's how I found out about the other. After denying for a bit, he told me how he really met her, and later that night volunteered some other new info (which I would not have known about on my own). Then last night he volunteered more info, which was upsetting but really minor compared to the affair. So, I understand that it is hard to confess, and I am pretty sure I would be the same way - I notice myself holding back when I am ashamed because I don't want to be judged. What he did is very serious and it can't be easy to talk about.

 

I guess I am confused about what to take from all this - if I accept that there was going to be trickle truth about smaller things, then I can't dwell on small details but must think of the big picture - that he had an affair and whether he will do it again. In the last couple of nights he corrected a few of his previous stories and told me the truth. It was painful to hear, but I appreciated it nonetheless. Do I want to keep fighting for my marriage? If I could be sure he is truly remorseful, then yes I would keep fighting for it. If I could be sure that he is sincere about me and about changing our lives to be more honest and transparent, then yes, I would fight for my marriage. So far, everything I see: his transparency with me about his stuff, willingness to work on his issues and talk about them with his therapist, willingness to answer my questions over and over....there is only so much a person can fake and only for so long. I guess that's what I am choosing to believe this morning...

[SandieBeach]

Just don't go Lorena Bobbitt on the man Sandie.

 

Hey, a more serious question. You said the profile he set up sounded like him when you were doing your cyber detective work. I'm assuming he was on Ashley Madison, or Fling or one of those sights. Did he happen to post what he felt he lacked at home or in his relationship with you? Or wasn't that part still available?

 

No worries, TBK....I have no interest in going to jail over this. Now, if I could avoid the consequences, then...hmmmm, I don't know. Wait, if that water boarding thing is still legal, let's just do that, k?

 

You are correct in assuming that he was on AM (not sure about the other one, never heard of it). So here's what happened with that: I read an article about AM the other day about how big it was becoming, so I went on it and signed up. I searched his nickname and found a few similar ones, but one just stuck out (horoscope, height, weight, location, age). That's all I had, so I went to him with it. He signed up for it about a month and a half before getting together with this woman (I noticed charges on his cc), and canceled his account a few days after sleeping with her for the first time (AM makes you pay a fee to delete your account completely, and it's a unique charge, so I confirmed that part on the cc). There were no related charges on his card after that. What happened is that AM apparently had server issues and while his account reverted to a non-subscriber, he was still searchable. He ended up paying the same fee to cancel it again because AM people said that they couldn't see his previous statement - it was too old. Anyway, he paid the same cancelation fee he did last year, so we are going to make sure the account is removed. This should be a lesson to all the people who get on there - you never know what's going to be available for the public.

 

On a different note, I had a chance to look at AM, and wow, was that something! The site is entirely for married men and women to have an affair. Their slogan is "Life is Short. Have an Affair." There are a bunch of single people who signed up to meet a married man or woman. So, my H's fling, apparently a devout Catholic (:sick:), was on that site to meet a married man. I was on there for literally minutes, of course no photo, and I even lied about my age and looks, and I got a bunch of emails and chat requests. One of the guys wanted to "have sex with me" in his wife's bed while she is out of the house . I guess the part that comforts me is that my H, while doing an awful thing and signing up on the site to meet someone for sex which he apparently desperately needed , canceled his subscription and did not engage any new women in chats. He and this woman created their own intimacy and fantasy, so at least it looks like he wasn't going after a variety, but rather consistency.

[The Blue Knight]

Thanks TBK and Sandie

 

TBK, well maybe they shouldn't threaten an A....I dunno.... My W came to me with a list of issues a couple months into her A, I reacted and worked on all of them. I actually felt really good about it. She seemed to be satisfied too...I didn't know it was already too late though

 

She had come to me other times too and I had responded. I used to sometimes sleep downstairs if I had been up till like 4AM playing a game or working on music. She told me it was killing our relationship. I stopped doing that, for the last 7 years I've always come to bed, no matter how late. I've had her hide games from me, destroyed discs, etc. I think a common complaint is that spouses relapse, and I've certainly relapsed many times...but dern it, remind me if I'm off track again. Don't give up and go have an A!

 

Ok, here's what I think...if you STILL can't get the point across with "our relationship is in trouble" which is what usually got through to me...THEN be HONEST and say, "Honey I'm really serious, I'm starting to think about other people and I don't want to go there because I love you." Something like that. Tone of voice is a big part of it. I think the dry text may not express how I pictured it being said.

Yeah, the relapse in the "changed spouse" is as common as the trickle truth in many ways. We just always desire to go back to our bad habits and selfish ways. Problem is, you begin to get comfortable again after "fixing" your issues and with comfort comes that unwanted seeping apathy, and the belief that you might be able to fall back on some of those old habits without it being noticed or an issue. We've all done it.

 

I remember following your original post NH about your wife loving her time at the dojo. Understandable as I have a similar background myself. I don't know that I've seen an update from you or maybe I just missed it. Is she still attending and is the other guy still training there?

 

Regarding your last paragraph NH, I think in the perfect world where we have the utmost control over our emotions and our actions (Mr. Spock), that might work. Humans I don't believe typically work that way. I guess the best way I can say it is, by the time the spouse is ready to have those words slip off their lips, I think many of the spouses have already moved on emotionally, and the detachment process has already gained firm roots in that persons emotional psyche.

 

Besides, most spouses believe that they aren't supposed to feel like they do. The idea of not being happy or content with their husband or wife and unless they are bouncing a grievance or two off of a close friend or sibling, they may just tuck all that stuff away and leave it unaddressed. Sometimes they suppress their feelings and try to deny them to themselves. That goes on for probably an extended period of time before the spouse even gets to the point of an actual affair. I don't think that most "normal" spouses want to feel that way, so it's perhaps a bit embarrassing to say, "Honey, it's time you know that I'm emotionally ready for an affair."

 

Then there is the spite issue. Those spouses who feel like they've communicated the issue and it's just not changing anything. So they just kind of move on. Additionally, more women than men (sorry Sandie, Frozen, Nemo) can harbor "stuff" from the past. I think oftentimes women just don't address some of the things bothering them in the marriage because they want to keep the peace. But by the time it festers over a long period of time, they've already begun to check out emotionally.

[The Blue Knight]

Hmmmm...water boarding....I think I might take you up on that, TBK . The funny thing is that I just knew there were other things that he was not telling me about. I was not naive in thinking that he confessed to everything (I do have to point out that he has been very open about the affair with her, so there were no surprises there). I do know him pretty well (clearly not as well as I thought), so certain parts of the story did not make sense to me. Perhaps that's why I went digging for more and found out about potentially incriminating evidence . By the way, he gave me his screen name for one of his sites, so that's how I found out about the other. After denying for a bit, he told me how he really met her, and later that night volunteered some other new info (which I would not have known about on my own). Then last night he volunteered more info, which was upsetting but really minor compared to the affair. So, I understand that it is hard to confess, and I am pretty sure I would be the same way - I notice myself holding back when I am ashamed because I don't want to be judged. What he did is very serious and it can't be easy to talk about.

 

I guess I am confused about what to take from all this - if I accept that there was going to be trickle truth about smaller things, then I can't dwell on small details but must think of the big picture - that he had an affair and whether he will do it again. In the last couple of nights he corrected a few of his previous stories and told me the truth. It was painful to hear, but I appreciated it nonetheless. Do I want to keep fighting for my marriage? If I could be sure he is truly remorseful, then yes I would keep fighting for it. If I could be sure that he is sincere about me and about changing our lives to be more honest and transparent, then yes, I would fight for my marriage. So far, everything I see: his transparency with me about his stuff, willingness to work on his issues and talk about them with his therapist, willingness to answer my questions over and over....there is only so much a person can fake and only for so long. I guess that's what I am choosing to believe this morning...

 

Having dealt with many people in situations where truth is going to get them in trouble or at the very least, make them feel ashamed, yeah . . . you hit it on the nuts. It's something he's obviously feeling awful about. It's natural to be guarded and want to share only what you have to share rather than risk losing that person entirely by dumping 100% truth on them.

 

The only way you'll know that he's remorseful and that he's being sincere is to ride it out and see where it goes from this point onward.

 

What you're describing about your husband overall hasn't changed in my mind since we first exchanged thoughts. I think he is remorseful and attempting to do everything that he can to fix this. And as you pointed out, a person who is faking or creating a synthetic personality can only hold that together for so long and then at some point it falls apart.

 

The key here is even though he did sign up for those sites willingly, it's still the result of what he felt was loneliness, a fairly dead marriage, and lacking intimacy at home. Unfortunately we live in a day and age with computers are making just about "everything" a bit too convenient.

[The Blue Knight]

No worries, TBK....I have no interest in going to jail over this. Now, if I could avoid the consequences, then...hmmmm, I don't know. Wait, if that water boarding thing is still legal, let's just do that, k?

 

You are correct in assuming that he was on AM (not sure about the other one, never heard of it). So here's what happened with that: I read an article about AM the other day about how big it was becoming, so I went on it and signed up. I searched his nickname and found a few similar ones, but one just stuck out (horoscope, height, weight, location, age). That's all I had, so I went to him with it. He signed up for it about a month and a half before getting together with this woman (I noticed charges on his cc), and canceled his account a few days after sleeping with her for the first time (AM makes you pay a fee to delete your account completely, and it's a unique charge, so I confirmed that part on the cc). There were no related charges on his card after that. What happened is that AM apparently had server issues and while his account reverted to a non-subscriber, he was still searchable. He ended up paying the same fee to cancel it again because AM people said that they couldn't see his previous statement - it was too old. Anyway, he paid the same cancelation fee he did last year, so we are going to make sure the account is removed. This should be a lesson to all the people who get on there - you never know what's going to be available for the public.

 

On a different note, I had a chance to look at AM, and wow, was that something! The site is entirely for married men and women to have an affair. Their slogan is "Life is Short. Have an Affair." There are a bunch of single people who signed up to meet a married man or woman. So, my H's fling, apparently a devout Catholic (:sick:), was on that site to meet a married man. I was on there for literally minutes, of course no photo, and I even lied about my age and looks, and I got a bunch of emails and chat requests. One of the guys wanted to "have sex with me" in his wife's bed while she is out of the house . I guess the part that comforts me is that my H, while doing an awful thing and signing up on the site to meet someone for sex which he apparently desperately needed , canceled his subscription and did not engage any new women in chats. He and this woman created their own intimacy and fantasy, so at least it looks like he wasn't going after a variety, but rather consistency.

 

Yeah, I've seen the site a couple times. Interesting. As I said in my previous posting, the computer has made it all a bit too easy. Like any technology, that's both good and bad depending on how you use it. But I think what it speaks more too are all the desperately unhappy marriages out there. What I noticed was a common theme of "I don't want to change my life, just have some fun on the side."

 

Personally, if my marriage was that bad, I think I'd prefer to just leave it. But then again, I do understand why people can't just shoot out the door. Kids, finances, homes, so many, many things that keep you wanting to stay in the marriage, or in some cases having to stay in the marriage.

 

Yeah, and the consistency issue is about replacing what your husband lacked at home. The variety problem would have hinted of a serial cheater. So that's good to know. Goes back to what I was saying earlier. He needed a surrogate for intimacy. And him cancelling his membership before you found out, shows he just needed that one person to share it with I believe.

 

Sex for monogamous men is very important. It's a connection that they can only get with their wife or that one special person in their life, if they're like me anyway. If that wife isn't available, then no matter how devoted a husband he is, there will come a point where that primal craving is going to drive the guy nuts, and he's going to falter. I suspect quite a few monogamous women have this same problem.

[SandieBeach]

Then there is the spite issue. Those spouses who feel like they've communicated the issue and it's just not changing anything. So they just kind of move on. Additionally, more women than men (sorry Sandie, Frozen, Nemo) can harbor "stuff" from the past. I think oftentimes women just don't address some of the things bothering them in the marriage because they want to keep the peace. But by the time it festers over a long period of time, they've already begun to check out emotionally.

 

You nailed this one, TBK . I don't want to say women do this more than men, since I've got no stats to back me up, but this keeping the peace thing is probably one of the biggest reasons for holding back. We do it enough times, and then it turns to resentment and harboring "stuff." Some things are so clear to me today like never before. For example, I used to be embarrassed to bring up things that bothered me, or for needing certain things in a relationship. Why? I have no frickin' idea (on a deeper level it is). While it's still hard to bring up certain issues, I don't waste time thinking about how to bring them up - I just open my mouth and blurt it out. Then we deal with it. Of course, I need to work on my timing (i.e. not during work hours ), but it's refreshing to finally be myself.