Sleep, or lack thereof

[Els]

Hee, yeah. In my current field, I think if I really put my head to it I could be a freelancer once I succeed in obtaining permanent residency.

 

But if possible, I really don't want to let this dictate my entire life. Not to mention that it sucks never being able to make proper plans or have proper vacations or wake when the sun is shining.

[ffw]

OP, I don't know whether it will help or not. Personally, I observed over the years that my body works more like a capacitor or battery. In other words, it seems to follow a time pattern. My body & mind will be exploding with energy during morning but as the time goes go by the efficiency starts to decrease. In the evening, even if I am working, my body & mind will only be there physically; no new ideas come to my mind. More or less like a blank slate.

 

On the other hand, no matter how much tired I am I can't sleep more than max. 6 hrs at best. Also, I don't need to because this time is sufficient for my body to get fully charged. Hope it makes sense. GL.

[denise_xo]

Have you tried hypnosis?

[Els]

No, actually. Does it really work? o.O I thought it was a myth and not medically proven.

[denise_xo]

No, actually. Does it really work? o.O I thought it was a myth and not medically proven.

 

It just seemed an issue of desperate times calling for desperate measures but more seriously: I know very little about it, but have heard of people who have found it very useful. Whether it's medically proven, I have no idea and I doubt it. Personally I'm open to things that aren't medically proven as long as they don't cause me any harm. For example, I've had pretty amazing effects on a couple of occasions from homeopathy. I'm perfectly open to the fact that it might very well have been caused by some placebo effect, but I really don't care whether it is or not, as long as it 'works' - i.e. it gave me (whether it was a psychological function or not) a desired effect that nothing else would do at the time.

[KathyM]

Here is what my professor gave us (his students) as a list to help clients with their insomnia:

 

1. Commit to a regular sleeping schedule and stick to it. Same time to bed at night, and same time to get up. Even if you are not sleepy at that time, go to bed anyway and stay in bed for eight hours. You need to get your body clock set for those same hours and not vary it.

 

2. Avoid afternoon naps and trying to catch up on sleep at any other time of the day. Stick with the eight hour time designated for sleep.

 

3. Quit smoking. Reduce caffeine, alcohol and other fluids before bedtime.

 

4. Avoid eating close to bedtime. Avoid foods that might cause indigestion.

 

5. Maintain a daily schedule of exercise, but make it early in the day, not within four hours of bedtime.

 

6. Prepare yourself for sleep by getting into bed (at the designated time). Do relaxation exercises during this time. Use mental imagery to imagine yourself in a relaxed state and protected from invading worries or thoughts. Think of relaxing images. Do deep breathing exercises.

 

8. Do not use the bed for work or T.V.

 

9. Make sure your bed and pillow are comfortable, the room is quiet and dark. Make sure the temperature is comfortable.

 

10. If you wake up during the night, stay in bed with lights out and eyes closed. Do not get up, read, eat, watch T.V. or use your computer. Stay in bed during those hours with your eyes closed and your mind relaxed.

[johan]

Self-hypnosis is a great thing to learn how to do. You can relax your body to the point that you can't even feel it. But it doesn't help me sleep. It focuses my mind and sort of wakes me up.

 

I have a magic podcast that puts me to sleep whenever I want.

[spookie]

No offense, but I am pretty sure everyone works the same as you, most people just have obligations they prioritize over thier beauty rest.

 

If you make yourself get up at the same time each day, it'll suck for a couple of weeks, but after that, your body will adjust to wanting to go to bed at the same time, too.

 

Also, in my experience, hard exercise (think, HIIT or heavy lifting) doesn't hurt, either. I sleep like a log the days I hit the gym.

[johan]

Also, in my experience, hard exercise (think, HIIT or heavy lifting) doesn't hurt, either. I sleep like a log the days I hit the gym.

 

My experience is the opposite. When I get a lot of exercise, I sleep a lot lighter. But it's worth a try.

[betterdeal]

Hey, I tried that for a while and it actually worked. However, my brain soon caught on to the fact that I was trying to cheat it, and I had to try harder to maintain the illusion. Naturally, trying too hard is the mortal enemy of sleep. I think that is where I snag up. Everything else in life, almost, the harder you try, the greater your chances of achieving it. Sleep is the only exception.

 

Yeah, that happens. I think it's a change of attitude towards sleep that worked best for me: now I see sleep as a necessary luxury and everything else can wait. I do have times when I am stressed and I don't sleep well, but nowhere near as much as I used to. Sleep is my divine right!

[Els]

It just seemed an issue of desperate times calling for desperate measures but more seriously: I know very little about it, but have heard of people who have found it very useful. Whether it's medically proven, I have no idea and I doubt it. Personally I'm open to things that aren't medically proven as long as they don't cause me any harm. For example, I've had pretty amazing effects on a couple of occasions from homeopathy. I'm perfectly open to the fact that it might very well have been caused by some placebo effect, but I really don't care whether it is or not, as long as it 'works' - i.e. it gave me (whether it was a psychological function or not) a desired effect that nothing else would do at the time.

Self-hypnosis is a great thing to learn how to do. You can relax your body to the point that you can't even feel it. But it doesn't help me sleep. It focuses my mind and sort of wakes me up.

 

I have a magic podcast that puts me to sleep whenever I want.

 

Very fair points. I'll actually give it a shot, what do I have to lose.

 

No offense, but I am pretty sure everyone works the same as you, most people just have obligations they prioritize over thier beauty rest.

 

If you make yourself get up at the same time each day, it'll suck for a couple of weeks, but after that, your body will adjust to wanting to go to bed at the same time, too.

 

Also, in my experience, hard exercise (think, HIIT or heavy lifting) doesn't hurt, either. I sleep like a log the days I hit the gym.

Denise, I actually had to be at work at 8am for 6 months before. It really did not work, for the entire 6 months I probably got 10 hours of sleep a week.

 

That was a major catalyst in my decision to switch career paths.

 

Spookie, did you actually read this post of mine?

 

Here is what my professor gave us (his students) as a list to help clients with their insomnia:

 

1. Commit to a regular sleeping schedule and stick to it. Same time to bed at night, and same time to get up. Even if you are not sleepy at that time, go to bed anyway and stay in bed for eight hours. You need to get your body clock set for those same hours and not vary it.

 

2. Avoid afternoon naps and trying to catch up on sleep at any other time of the day. Stick with the eight hour time designated for sleep.

 

3. Quit smoking. Reduce caffeine, alcohol and other fluids before bedtime.

 

4. Avoid eating close to bedtime. Avoid foods that might cause indigestion.

 

5. Maintain a daily schedule of exercise, but make it early in the day, not within four hours of bedtime.

 

6. Prepare yourself for sleep by getting into bed (at the designated time). Do relaxation exercises during this time. Use mental imagery to imagine yourself in a relaxed state and protected from invading worries or thoughts. Think of relaxing images. Do deep breathing exercises.

 

8. Do not use the bed for work or T.V.

 

9. Make sure your bed and pillow are comfortable, the room is quiet and dark. Make sure the temperature is comfortable.

 

10. If you wake up during the night, stay in bed with lights out and eyes closed. Do not get up, read, eat, watch T.V. or use your computer. Stay in bed during those hours with your eyes closed and your mind relaxed.

 

Kathy, I've tried all of those and more. These are staples in sleep hygiene advice and the numerous doctors whom I have gone to have already talked to me about that.

 

Yeah, that happens. I think it's a change of attitude towards sleep that worked best for me: now I see sleep as a necessary luxury and everything else can wait. I do have times when I am stressed and I don't sleep well, but nowhere near as much as I used to. Sleep is my divine right!

 

That's great. I do think that perhaps an unorthodox method could help me, since the run of the mill ones have failed. A friend of mine said he just stopped caring about whether he slept or not, and eventually the anxiety went away and he COULD sleep. I haven't managed to get myself to that point yet though.

[betterdeal]

One thing I noticed about my insomnia was it was often a reaction to having something to do that I didn't like, i.e. go to work. I'd be awake until half an hour before time to get up, then get incredibly sleepy. It was as if I was waiting for a night assault by the annoying little bastard in customer services who was making my life misery with his inane, empty-vessel white noise style of communicating. Then when the sun came up, I could rest, safe in the knowledge that particular time-vampire wouldn't be sneaking up on me. Or it could be that my id was doing its damnedest to stop me going into the office.

 

So, if you hate your job or school or other designated activity that you have to get up for, your sleeplessness may be a reaction to that.

[FitChick]

I've taken 3mg of melatonin every night for many years. It's a hormone your body makes but that diminishes with age. Perhaps the OP is deficient. I also wear a sleep mask to block out all light. No caffeine after lunch time either. Still, I am a light sleeper so I make up for it on the weekend by sleeping up to ten hours.

[Star Gazer]

My experience is the opposite. When I get a lot of exercise, I sleep a lot lighter. But it's worth a try.

 

Same here. I sleep best when I'm lazy, not when I'm really active.

 

But I also find I need less sleep when I'm really active.

[threebyfate]

Thanks, I've not seen that before. Curious that docs still advocate 8 hours.

The medical profession also still advocates the consumption of multi-vitamins and makes sweeping statements about cholesterol, whereby there are two types of cholesterol, the good and bad varieties.

 

There really is a ton of "common knowledge" out there that belongs in a baby's diaper.

[Els]

One thing I noticed about my insomnia was it was often a reaction to having something to do that I didn't like, i.e. go to work. I'd be awake until half an hour before time to get up, then get incredibly sleepy. It was as if I was waiting for a night assault by the annoying little bastard in customer services who was making my life misery with his inane, empty-vessel white noise style of communicating. Then when the sun came up, I could rest, safe in the knowledge that particular time-vampire wouldn't be sneaking up on me. Or it could be that my id was doing its damnedest to stop me going into the office.

 

So, if you hate your job or school or other designated activity that you have to get up for, your sleeplessness may be a reaction to that.

 

That was definitely a precipitating factor in the 6 sleepless months that I described to denise. Currently, though, I love love love the field that I am in. The only issue is that it's an extremely mental-dependent field, not the sort that you can just slog through after a bad night's sleep. So if you have poor sleep you're pretty much useless the next day because you can't think as well. That is a huge reason I'm stressed out, I think. I can either get up at 8am and not be able to do anything, or get up at 2pm and do very well in it. Currently I am choosing to do the latter, but I figure it's not terribly sustainable.

 

I have heard that programming becomes more mechanical the more you practice it though, so perhaps after a few more years that stress will dissipate.

 

I've taken 3mg of melatonin every night for many years. It's a hormone your body makes but that diminishes with age. Perhaps the OP is deficient. I also wear a sleep mask to block out all light. No caffeine after lunch time either. Still, I am a light sleeper so I make up for it on the weekend by sleeping up to ten hours.

 

I tried it for a week but it didn't seem to do anything. Maybe I should ask the doc to let me try it for a longer period (she only gave me enough for a week)?

 

Same here. I sleep best when I'm lazy, not when I'm really active.

 

But I also find I need less sleep when I'm really active.

 

I'm the strangest of all. I actually am sleepy after a long period of physical exercise, like a 3 mile walk or a 1 hour hike. The problem is that such activities typically occur long before bedtime. So if I need to sleep at 11, I can't very well go for a hike or jog at 10pm. Besides the fact that it's freezing and dangerous..

 

Indoor activities like jump rope and push ups don't seem to work as well, maybe because I just can't make myself sustain them for 1-2 hours like a walk.

[betterdeal]

I have heard that programming becomes more mechanical the more you practice it though, so perhaps after a few more years that stress will dissipate.

 

I programme. Yoga has helped me switch off. Well, so did booze and cannabis, but I don't think they're as sustainable as yoga.

[FitChick]

I tried it for a week but it didn't seem to do anything. Maybe I should ask the doc to let me try it for a longer period (she only gave me enough for a week)?

 

If you need a doctor to prescribe melatonin, I'm guessing you don't live in the US where we can buy it over the counter. Maybe you can buy it online instead. There are different doses. 500 mcg and 1 mg did nothing for me. You could buy the 1 mg and try that for a week, then bump it up to two tablets the following week.

 

Whenever I eat sugary foods, they make me very sleepy so you could try eating dessert before bedtime.

[betterdeal]

Or you could try staying awake.

[Els]

Fitchick: You're right, I didn't expect to be able to get it OTC. Will try enquiring at the pharmacy tomorrow.

 

Or you could try staying awake.

 

I have actually been doing this recently. I just got sick and tired of wasting 3-6 hours of each DAY trying to sleep. I think a better solution for me would be to just let my schedule do what it may, since it's not imperative that I keep 'normal' hours at this point of time, and spend those 3-6 hours improving my skills in my field so that I will have a better chance of being able to work at non-regular hours in the future. I did that over the past few days, and my productivity increased dramatically.

[mercy]

The more you worry about sleep, the less you sleep, the less you sleep the more you worry. It's a never-ending battle.

 

Only do really boring things a couple hours before bed. Try not to do anything that will stimulate the brain.

[D-Lish]

Els,

 

I am surprised you say that no health care professional will prescribe you Ziploclone without a mental illness. It's just a sleeping pill used to help people that have sleep disorders- which you clearly do.

 

After my divorce I couldn't sleep and my Doctor gave it to me.

 

You have to take it consistently in order for it to regulate your sleeping patterns. If you took it every night at 9pm, you'd be asleep by 10pm, and most likely up by 8am.

 

I go through periods where I need the prescription, and times when I don't.

[ThaWholigan]

I'm very nocturnal, have been since young. This might sound weird but whenever June came around, I used to love going to sleep while the sun was rising. It was always one of the best things to me, for some strange reason, and the warmth would send me to sleep.

 

I do want to sleep better though, so I can have a proper full day when everyone else is up. The best thing I do to get me to sleep is read. I love to read, but once I get engrossed in it, it begins to sap my energy and I want to sleep.

 

Find a really good book OP. One of my favorites is The Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison. The last book I bought was Freesourcing: How to start a business with no money. It's tiring because there's so much info in it.

[Els]

The more you worry about sleep, the less you sleep, the less you sleep the more you worry. It's a never-ending battle.

 

Only do really boring things a couple hours before bed. Try not to do anything that will stimulate the brain.

 

This is very true! The major problem with this though, it's that it's not straightforward to solve. You can't just tell yourself 'don't worry'. It's like telling yourself, 'don't think about prancing zebras'. What are you thinking about now?

 

Els,

 

I am surprised you say that no health care professional will prescribe you Ziploclone without a mental illness. It's just a sleeping pill used to help people that have sleep disorders- which you clearly do.

 

After my divorce I couldn't sleep and my Doctor gave it to me.

 

You have to take it consistently in order for it to regulate your sleeping patterns. If you took it every night at 9pm, you'd be asleep by 10pm, and most likely up by 8am.

 

I go through periods where I need the prescription, and times when I don't.

 

They would prescribe it to me, but usually very small quantities and are hesitant to repeat. I understand their hesitance, in that zopiclone is prone to addictivity and tolerance - once you develop tolerance, it's a bitch and a half to wean yourself back off, and usually causes more problems for the doctors. I'm surprised you managed to use it for so long without developing it! The last time I took it regularly, I developed tolerance after 2 weeks of regular use, and it took me 3-4 weeks to sleep without it.

 

I'm very nocturnal, have been since young. This might sound weird but whenever June came around, I used to love going to sleep while the sun was rising. It was always one of the best things to me, for some strange reason, and the warmth would send me to sleep.

 

I do want to sleep better though, so I can have a proper full day when everyone else is up. The best thing I do to get me to sleep is read. I love to read, but once I get engrossed in it, it begins to sap my energy and I want to sleep.

 

Find a really good book OP. One of my favorites is The Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison. The last book I bought was Freesourcing: How to start a business with no money. It's tiring because there's so much info in it.

 

I do love reading. The problem is that I can read for hours and hours at a time without feeling sleepy, if it's a good book! As an example, I finished one of the Sword of Ice and Fire series books in one night - that was ten whole hours.

[mercy]

This is very true! The major problem with this though, it's that it's not straightforward to solve. You can't just tell yourself 'don't worry'. It's like telling yourself, 'don't think about prancing zebras'. What are you thinking about now?

 

 

 

 

I'm thinking I'm going to lose sleep over this reply.