Need to Understand About Regaining Trust

[blueincali]

Hello. I've been reading here for a while, but have not posted before. I am hoping for some insight/advice/perspective about regaining trust. First, my story. Wife & I are both in our 40s, married 15 years, have a teenage son. I thought we were best friends. I thought it was pretty cool that I was still in love with her after all these years. I thought she felt much the same way. Then I learned (saw a text message) that she was having affair with a co-worker. Affair lasted about three months, and involved lots of lying to my face. She says she ended it immediately upon being discovered, and AFAIK that's true. I was totally blindsided, and really devastated. I don't think she is a bad person. She's a good person, generally honest (AFAIK) and with good values, who did a very bad thing. We've been thrashing around with it for 2.5 months now. I've gone from feeling like my insides exploded to being able to get by day to day, but the world is just a crappier place for me than it used to be. I still love her, and would like to keep our marriage together if it seems doable. She says she is committed to keeping our marriage together, and AFAIK that's true. We've been going to a counselor, but the counseling doesn't really address my question, which is:

 

How do I come to trust her again, or know if that is possible? The things I've read on the subject are not very helpful. Janis Spring's generally very helpful book, After the Affair, talks about small and large trust-building steps, but they seem almost silly. People talk about "it takes time," which it surely does, but what is it that happens over time that restores that fundamental feeling of being able to trust her? It's not just the passage of time, it must be something that takes place during that time, right? After weighing things, this is one of the deal-breakers for me. I just don't want to be married anymore if that relationship doesn't include trust (and the associated comfort, security, etc.), but I don't know how to predict whether I'll get there. If it's doomed from the start, I'd rather not spend months, or years, struggling to repair a relationship that doesn't have a chance.

 

Can anyone help me understand this better?

 

Thanks so much.

[Owl]

What is she doing to reestablish her trustworthiness? What has she changed as a result of the whole situation to demonstrate to you that she is now trustworthy, where she wasn't before?

 

Has she given you unrestricted access to her emails/IM/FB/phone/etc...?

Did she explain how she kept the affair concealed from you before, and has offered up ways to show you that she's being honest now, where she lied before?

Has she shown true regret and remorse for her actions?

[blueincali]

What is she doing to reestablish her trustworthiness? What has she changed as a result of the whole situation to demonstrate to you that she is now trustworthy, where she wasn't before?

 

Has she given you unrestricted access to her emails/IM/FB/phone/etc...?

Did she explain how she kept the affair concealed from you before, and has offered up ways to show you that she's being honest now, where she lied before?

Has she shown true regret and remorse for her actions?

 

Several questions there. First, I have not asked for access, and she has not offered. If she was still hiding things, she is smart enough to not leave tracks. So, I feel like it would be demeaning to her for me to demand to see her phone/email/etc, and I'm pretty confident that I would not find anything there. She kept the affair concealed from me by lying about where she was going, who she was with, etc. She has shown regret & remorse, although she has put more time and energy into talking about what was wrong with the relationship & how I have failed her, than in talking about her betrayal.

 

Thanks again.

[Lauriebell82]

She has shown regret & remorse, although she has put more time and energy into talking about what was wrong with the relationship & how I have failed her, than in talking about her betrayal.

 

Thanks again.

 

Sounds more like she is justifying and blaming then feeling remorse/regret. That's something you should address in counseling.

[anne1707]

Former WS here who has successfully reconciled.

 

For a start - listen to Owl and what he has to say - you are guaranteed to get solid, non-judgemental advice and be asked questions that really matter.

 

Several questions there. First, I have not asked for access, and she has not offered. If she was still hiding things, she is smart enough to not leave tracks. So, I feel like it would be demeaning to her for me to demand to see her phone/email/etc, and I'm pretty confident that I would not find anything there. She kept the affair concealed from me by lying about where she was going, who she was with, etc.

 

Keeping the affair secret is hard work and very difficult to keep 100% secret if you as the BS are suspicious and alert to the signs. I managed to keep my affair secret before Dday but that meant keeping my mobile out of sight and sound. Whilst my H never asked for access to my phone, I ensured it was always left where he could see and check it whenever he wanted. He never asked to see my email but as his area of work is IT, I knew that he could dig if he wanted to (he also knew my password). What I am getting at is that whilst he did not ask for access, he knew he could gain access if he wanted and I accepted that.

 

As for checking her phone being demeaning to her. Well sorry but that is tough - this does not compare to how she has made you feel.

 

 

 

She has shown regret & remorse, although she has put more time and energy into talking about what was wrong with the relationship & how I have failed her, than in talking about her betrayal.

 

Thanks again.

 

Two things here:

 

Talking about what was wrong in the relationship is actually essential for you to recover and reconcile although this does not mean it was all your fault or even all hers (except for the decision to have the affair - that is hers alone).

 

Not talking about the betrayal? Could be perfectly understandable reasons for that - guilt, shame, embarrassment. As well as bad reasons such as wanting to hide things from you. Just don't jump to conclusions on this.

 

A good MC will help you both and you may both need IC to help you deal with feelings that are maybe best not shared.

[blueincali]

Thanks, Anne. I appreciate these responses, but I don't feel like things like access to her phone, email, etc., are going to restore that basic feeling of trust. Does it ever come back?

[anne1707]

It can but it takes time. Your wife's actions need to support her words and the same applies to you too. You are both battered and bruised by the fall-out from the affair and will probably be on pins looking out for/reacting to hurtful comments/actions no matter how slight or how unintended they may be. Your wife needs to show real remorse for what she has done for you to reconcile and that will take time for you to see and to then believe.

 

I know that for us, it was probably not until 5/6 months after dday that we started talking about things we planned to do in terms of the next few months (up until then we only talked a couple of weeks or so ahead). It really is about taking one day at a time when in the early stages of recovery - it's pretty much all you can do both emotionally and physically.

 

Counselling will provide a safe environment for you to talk about what has happened, figure out what you want and what you need to do to achieve that. My H and I made this pact that after we left our MC sessions, no matter how hard they had been, that we would hug each other on the way out and that there would be no discussion/recriminations about what had been said in the MC. The focus between MC was still working on us but that meant not just being more open with each other but also doing more things for "us". A book we both found useful in this process was "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Harley.

[eamherst14051]

Thanks, Anne. I appreciate these responses, but I don't feel like things like access to her phone, email, etc., are going to restore that basic feeling of trust. Does it ever come back?

 

 

Short Answer - NO !!

[imagine]

Blue,

 

She is still in a fog. She has no idea of the actual impact on your life or the marriage. It is fixable.

 

All marriages need extraordinary precautions. No one is absolutely trust worthy.

 

Before I give you advice, does she know that you are writing on this forum?

[Bryanp]

It sounds to me that she only stopped the affair because she got caught. She apparently had no plan to stop the affair and would still be cheating and lying to you. I hope you have both been tested for STD's. What have been the consequences to her actions? You seem very forgiving. I have hunch that she engaged in this affair because she knew if she got caught you would probably forgive her immediately anyway so she really had nothing to lose. Am I wrong? If the roles had been reversed would she have been as accepting as you have been.

I agree it sounds like a lot of blame shifting to me. She has totally disrespected you and your marriage. If you do not respect yourself then who will? By the way did you expose the affair to the OM's wife or significant other? If you did not then you are sending him a clear message that there are no consequences to him for screwing your wife time and again. Good luck.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

Short Answer - NO !!

 

^^ True for me

 

I used to be a very trusting person by nature.

 

Before d-day I had 100% trust in my wife. We have since reconciled but that level of trust will never be fully restored. When we talk about trust my response is "I trust you enough...". The days of blindly trusting her (or anyone) is over.

 

Sadly, that lack of trust spills over into other facets of life. I don't fully trust anyone. After all, if you can't trust your spouse, then who can you trust?

 

For me, it's a new worldview that took some time to get used to. When you come out of this hell, you will have a "new normal". Life will never be the same. That's the reality of it.

[blueincali]

Imagine - AFAIK, she does not know.

 

Betrayed & Stayed - that makes sense. It seems inconceivable that blind trust would ever return. Maybe "Trust you enough" would have worked, particularly if the other problems in the relationship were addressed. Except, really bad development this morning.

 

First, a bit more background. A few days after DDay, I asked my wife to not have any intimate communication with her AP. She was resistant, but agreed. Then I later asked that she not have any communication at all. She agreed, without being resistant. Last night I emailed her AP's spouse (sorry, I am not sure of all the correct acronyms) and let her know about the affair, and sent my wife a copy of my message to AP's spouse. This morning, wife was up before me, and was showering. I went in the bathroom to use the toilet. Wife's phone was on the counter. While I was in the toilet (enclosed WC), wife jumped out of the shower, grabbed her phone, and put it somewhere. When she emerged from the shower, I asked her what was going on. She said that AP had texted her that AP was very angry about my message to AP's spouse. My wife said she texted AP back that she would call AP. I asked to see the texts, and wife said she'd deleted them. I asked to listen to the phone call, and wife said no. I said "you are choosing right now, please don't." Repeated that. Wife refused. I said "I'm done." Wife left the house to call AP. Later met with AP (she says).

 

Wife came home for a little bit. I told her that I should not make a serious decision like "I'm done" in the heat of the moment, but I felt that we probably are done. We will talk tomorrow.

 

Please help me make sense of this.

[Luck]

I can't help you make sense of what she's thinking but I can tell you she's not being honest. You have EVERY right to know what they are saying to each other especially since they have no business talking to each other in the first place. Second I am currently recovering from a betrayal and I can tell you that telling the other spouse about the affair was exactly what you should of done. Now he's mad because he's paying for his crimes. Honestly if your wife isn't being open and 100% honest I don't see how it could work.

[anne1707]

She said that AP had texted her that AP was very angry about my message to AP's spouse. My wife said she texted AP back that she would call AP. I asked to see the texts, and wife said she'd deleted them. I asked to listen to the phone call, and wife said no. I said "you are choosing right now, please don't." Repeated that. Wife refused. I said "I'm done." Wife left the house to call AP. Later met with AP (she says).

 

If this was in the absolute immediate aftermath of dday, I could understand your wife's defensive behaviour (does not make it right though). However with dday being 2.5 months ago, she is totally out of order. She is still emotionally invested in the OM whereby she will prioritise him over you. If this is the case, then reconciliation is not possible.

 

If she wants you then she needs to put you first and foremost. Only then can recovery even begin.

[Bittersweetie]

If she wants you then she needs to put you first and foremost. Only then can recovery even begin.

 

I was a WS, like Anne, who has reconciled with my husband. And I agree with the above completely. After d-day, I was incredibly fortunate that my H gave me a second chance. In our first serious talk after d-day, he outlined a number of expectations he had of me if I truly wanted to be with him. At first some of them did rub me the wrong way...access to my all my email, even though I'd deleted the account I was using. Texting him when I got to work and when I got home. I soon realized though that by doing these small things, I was just starting to rebuild the trust bank account. Granted they were half-pennies in an account that was massively overdrawn, but if these were the steps he wanted me to take, I would willingly do them.

 

He also asked that I go to IC which I did. He wouldn't ask me what I talked about, but I usually ended up sharing anyway because I wanted him to know what I was thinking and feeling. Before the A, our marriage wasn't perfect (which was no excuse for what I did obviously), so we talked through the issues we had before and began to work on them together. By tackling them together, I think that built trust up as well.

 

We are now over two years past d-day. We've discussed trust, and he says he does trust me more now than he did after d-day. But he's not sure if he will ever trust me naively like he did before, and most likely wouldn't trust anyone like that. That is one consequence of the terrible choice I made. However, trust is no longer a top level issue for us anymore, which doesn't mean I take advantage of it. He doesn't look at my phone or laptop anymore, but I leave them out wherever and he could look anytime, as I don't have anything to hide. I tell him where I go, not so he can monitor me, but because I like to share what I do with him. We are both much more open with each other in general than we were before.

 

I don't know if this helps at all...I kind of feel like I'm rambling...and maybe things are too raw for you to hear from a wayward wife. But I would encourage you, if you want to attempt to work things out, to think about what you want and what would help you and share that with her. How she listens and handles it will probably give you insight on how things could move forward.

 

B

[imagine]

Blue,

 

Continue exposure.

 

No one should make immediate decisions. Read the advice given at Marriagebuilders.

 

Obtain all the people that will influence your wife and notify them now, before she has a chance to spin the tale. Inform them that you are trying to save your marriage and ask their help.

 

Notify all the characters of the OM, maybe his family.

 

There is no excuse for her actions and their has to be a consequence, else the same situation will reoccur. These are the results of the affair for BOTH parties.

 

Fight for your marriage. She will remember this- only much later. It will also make you a better marriage partner.

 

If no kids is involved, then a divorce -after careful evaluation will give you the least stress. Nevertheless you will always need MB in a future marriage.

[blueincali]

Bittersweetie - You are not rambling. That's a realistic-sounding explanation, it helps me understand. Thank you.

 

Imagine - what do you mean "continue exposure"?

[Owl]

Blue...your wife is still hiding communciation between her and her AP from you.

 

What and why doesn't matter.

 

She's still deceiving you.

 

The question now is...what are you going to do about it? What "consequence" does she suffer from her continued deceptioni/lying?

 

She should never have snatched that phone away, she should have told you as soon as AP contacted her, and she should have agreed how to handle the situation WITH you...not dictate to you how she's going to do it.

 

She's still wayward. The affair is NOT over.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

If she wants you then she needs to put you first and foremost. Only then can recovery even begin.

 

I'll add that full transparency is absolutely necessary in order to have any chance of regaining trust and thus salvaging this marriage.

[Prime Vera]

I don't know if it will be helpful to tell you my experience as a person who did not try to reconcile after my H's A. On some gut level I knew I would never feel completely comfortable with him ever again, so I ended it on DDay. I have never regretted my decision.

 

It's like getting bitten by a snake. How could I expect to ever be comfortable with a snake in the room after that? Never letting my guard down, sleeping with one eye open, never turning my back on it. I knew I couldn't live that way.

 

My trust issues, even safely out of range of my betrayer, followed me. Worrying about being kept in the dark, or being outright lied to, even by friends and family who had little reason to do that plagued me. I felt my trust was permanently broken to some degree. Even after 10 years post dday I still struggled. That was the larger damage that extended beyond just the trust I lost for my ex. I have read others' posts saying the same thing-they could never trust anyone that way again.

 

Then I met my husband. It took a couple of years to heal. He was patient and loving, and I was honest about my fears and paranoia, but I did heal. I am grateful to be able to tell you that if you surround yourself with trustworthy people, you can trust again. I am whole again. I can finally relax.

 

I haven't answered the question of whether or not you will ever be able to trust your wife completely again. I don't know if it's possible. If you want to, I hope you can. If you do manage it, I will be so glad for you. If you can't, time will tell. Just remember time is precious.

 

I can only tell you that I had no doubt that it was impossible for me. The ten years I spent alone rebuilding my shattered self was still better than the alternative, trying to rebuild a shattered marriage, checking phone records, emails, watching the clock, bank statements, interrogations and the whole BS protocol. I think that would have made me a bitter person.

 

Good luck. I wish you the best no matter what course you choose.

[blueincali]

Now she has decided to move out because she "needs some space." I know that I have been difficult to live with the last 2.5 months. Volatile, sometimes angry, inconsistent, needy, telling her I was done, then asking to talk about it. She's not up for dealing with me anymore. We all know what "I need some space" means. Thank you all for your kind words, insights and advice.

[LutiiChell]

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[Owl]

Now she has decided to move out because she "needs some space." I know that I have been difficult to live with the last 2.5 months. Volatile, sometimes angry, inconsistent, needy, telling her I was done, then asking to talk about it. She's not up for dealing with me anymore. We all know what "I need some space" means. Thank you all for your kind words, insights and advice.

 

That's fine...she can move out. With ZERO support or assistance (financial or otherwise) from you.

 

If she wants space...let her find it. Let her see what life is like completely and totally without you.

 

She'll find it far harder than she suspects.

 

And if she doesn't...you'll find it far easier than you suspect it will be for you. It'll get you ready for life without her, if need be.

[drifter777]

Now she has decided to move out because she "needs some space." I know that I have been difficult to live with the last 2.5 months. Volatile, sometimes angry, inconsistent, needy, telling her I was done, then asking to talk about it. She's not up for dealing with me anymore. We all know what "I need some space" means. Thank you all for your kind words, insights and advice.

 

It is pretty typical to defend your cheating wife and take on way too much blame yourself in the early weeks and months after d-day. Stop it. You are lying to yourself to avoid facing the truth and you need to take a hard, realistic look at what the hell is going on. Right now you are still in denial and terrified by the thought of losing someone who you have been so attached to for so long. Let her go. You will live through this and you will be a stronger, more well-adjusted person down the road.

 

Start or continue individual counseling and really work to honestly look at this situation. Yes, you could have been a better husband and maybe you think you could have kept her from cheating if you had given her more of what she needed. Even if some of this is true, now is not the time to take an objective view of her betrayal. Nothing you did, I repeat NOTHING, justify her disgusting behavior. You are not to blame. You are the victim of a horrific betrayal and you need to take care of yourself for a while.

 

This forum is littered with threads started by a BS looking for advice on how to move forward after d-day. Maybe without even knowing it, they defend their wives and become angry when we suggest that the affair is not over or that she is withholding valuable information and so on. They nearly all end the same as the BS discovers more damning evidence that badly damages, or destroys, any chance for reconciliation. I think those BS's may have had a chance to save their marriage if they had gotten honest with themselves and tough with their wives much, much sooner after d-day. What I'm saying is that you really have nothing to lose by turning your back on her and focusing on your own recovery. Once you do that you are taking a huge step forward in the next phase of your life.