Els Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 haha! When you get Elswyth to say screw it, youre truly doomed. lol ROFL this cracked me up. If a guy is really an a**hole to you--a guy you just approached, and said something neutral to him--why spend another moment in his company defending yourself? It is very difficult for us to believe that all these guys START as a**holes. You do have a communication style that is argumentative (it is apparent in your posts here, in the sample conversations you've relayed, and even your mother has given you this feedback). It seems much more likely that you are communicating in a way that brings out that side in the men you approach. What about the concrete communication suggestions we gave you above? Could you try that, without feeling like you've let the guy win, or been proven wrong? Precisely. I completely understand the urge to persist in an argument because the person you are talking to is just so logically wrong - it has caused me many lost hours on this forum. But really, it's the silliest thing to do with a guy you just met.. whom you are trying to date. Especially when you really did get something wrong. If the guy points it out assholishly, just raise an eyebrow and leave. If he points it out jokingly or neutrally, just admit your mistake.
stillafool Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 How many threads and posts are you going to make about how you have zero luck with men? Am I the only one who is exhausted from reading this sh*t? I'm not trying to be a bitch, but enough already. You are a cute girl, so maybe it's your piss poor attitude or utter lack of self esteem that these guys can sense a mile away. Neither are a turn on. And you shoot down any and all advice and suggestions. You keep arguing back and forth with the posters on here. I say just forget about finding a boyfriend/husband or whatever it is you are looking for and let him FIND YOU!! Mr. Right may just fall into your lap when you least expect it. Or seek therapy to help your poor self esteem issues. I'm serious. That's probably your number one issue. Sorry to be so blunt, but come on girl!! Finally someone said it. V when are you going to get some professional help? It seems that you somehow 'get off' on complaining about the same old subject and having people tell you "you are good enough". If the guys you approach are not interested in you maybe you should lower your standards or give up for a while and like someone else said let him find you. What you need to do first is get professional help. No one here can help you.
Author verhrzn Posted March 2, 2012 Author Posted March 2, 2012 Finally someone said it. V when are you going to get some professional help? It seems that you somehow 'get off' on complaining about the same old subject and having people tell you "you are good enough". If the guys you approach are not interested in you maybe you should lower your standards or give up for a while and like someone else said let him find you. What you need to do first is get professional help. No one here can help you. I am already getting professional help, and ya know what, hasn't helped, because therapy doesn't make you attractive. I've been going for nearly a year, and it's turned out to be just a freaking waste of my time and money. I already said I was giving up. Single men want hot girls. I finally got the message loud and clear. I'l be alone forever, no husband, no family, and die by myself. Gee, what a fantastic life, but I guess that's all us fatties and uglies get, but hey, life isn't fair, right. And if I "get off" on complaining here, then isn't it just as true that you all get off on complaining about me? I am constantly amazed how many people come into my threads just to complain about me. Glad I can be your forum punching bag and make you feel better about yourselves.
zengirl Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 I don't know why I keep fighting it. Guys want a hot chick, and I am never going to be that. I am never going to be skinny, I am never going to be attractive, and no matter what I freaking do, it's gonna be wrong. Apparently they can be an a**hole to me, but I can't defend myself because then I'm "argumentative." We're just trying to give you some concrete suggestions for something that can be implemented. We're not saying it will ALWAYS work. Some guys are *******s, and just walk away from them. But expect nerdy guys to be a bit socially awkward (not all of them are) when a girl walks up, was all I was saying, and don't perpetuate the argumentative state to see if they're actually an *******. At any rate, I know many girls who are not "hot chicks" and have boyfriends who adore them for exactly who they are. My best friend is not as empirically cute as you are, and she just got married to a wonderful guy who adores her, treats her wonderfully, and is crazy about her. Hell, she used to pull more guys than I did, and she's quite a bit overweight. She's also a totally awesome person who's 10x cooler than me in so many ways, so it never surprised me how much people, including guys, liked her. I think it certainly helps to be empirically attractive, but I know for sure it's not the end-all-be-all. Precisely. I completely understand the urge to persist in an argument because the person you are talking to is just so logically wrong - it has caused me many lost hours on this forum. But really, it's the silliest thing to do with a guy you just met.. whom you are trying to date. Especially when you really did get something wrong. If the guy points it out assholishly, just raise an eyebrow and leave. If he points it out jokingly or neutrally, just admit your mistake. I get it too. I am very much coming from a place of understanding an argumentative nature! But we're only trying to give you advice on how to be happier and sweat less of the small stuff, honestly.
Els Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 This might be rather mean of me, but I was bored and have been making a game out of guessing which post V is going to respond to (typically the most harsh, negative or argument-inspiring post). I got it wrong on her 2nd-last post (I thought she would respond to SCandy, not zengirl, but I guess her troll-dar is improving!), but I guessed right with the latest one.
Andy_K Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Just show us what you look like! I seem to remember last time she did that a bunch of people told her she was quite attractive. Naturally that doesn't fit her 'men don't fancy me cause I'm fat' world view, so she probably won't risk the cognitive dissonance again 1
xxoo Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 But expect nerdy guys to be a bit socially awkward (not all of them are) when a girl walks up, was all I was saying, and don't perpetuate the argumentative state to see if they're actually an *******. . V, these guys sound a lot like you. You are a bit socially awkward. It doesn't make you an a**hole. They have as much trouble backing down from a geeky/martial arts boast-fest as you do. Let them show off to you. Act impressed. Heck, try genuinely feeling impressed, but fake it for a moment if you can't manage that. Let them discover your geeky talents. Don't lead with them. They are taking it as a challenge (whatever you can do, I can do better), instead of a seduction.
Author verhrzn Posted March 2, 2012 Author Posted March 2, 2012 V, these guys sound a lot like you. You are a bit socially awkward. It doesn't make you an a**hole. They have as much trouble backing down from a geeky/martial arts boast-fest as you do. Let them show off to you. Act impressed. Heck, try genuinely feeling impressed, but fake it for a moment if you can't manage that. Let them discover your geeky talents. Don't lead with them. They are taking it as a challenge (whatever you can do, I can do better), instead of a seduction. Ah yes, I should just let the big strong men show me how much better they are than me. I am always wrong, and they always know what they are talking about. They get to correct me, I don't get to correct them. They get to be good at video games/martial arts/everything, and I just get to be impressed by them. You really don't think that's kind of sucky? That I have to be passive and weak, or else I'M labeled the problem? If that's what it takes to get a guy, then it's good I'm giving up. I am not passive, I am not skinny. I am apparently nothing guys want, so why bother.
SCandy Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Have you ever thought, about changing teams? Also, if you are fat but have a cute face, i don't see why there is a big problem...
Els Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 You know, V, in my time I beat a LOT of guys at competitive gaming. I still have never gotten into the kind of arguments you describe. Yes, there were guys who absolutely had to put me down to make themselves feel like they were better. That is the plight of the gamer girl. It was annoying, but it really wasn't worth my time arguing with them, and it definitely made me NOT want to date them, so it didn't matter either way. Besides, it was more fun laughing at them when I beat them and other guys made fun of them. And if they were genuinely better than me and beat me, then I suppose their boasts have merit. I didn't need to argue to PROVE anything. You always seem to feel like you do. In that way, I don't see how you are any better than those guys. 1
ffw Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 OP, instead of wasting your time here why don't you do some physical activity (joining gym, etc)?
xxoo Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Ah yes, I should just let the big strong men show me how much better they are than me. I am always wrong, and they always know what they are talking about. They get to correct me, I don't get to correct them. They get to be good at video games/martial arts/everything, and I just get to be impressed by them. Can you let him show off a bit, and be impressed, without YOU being weak and wrong? Maybe the problem is that these men don't impress you, and you aren't interested in what they have to say. And, yes, they want to feel like big strong men. Let them. You don't have to side step debates forever, just for the initial approach. Let them feel attraction to you, not competition.
zengirl Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Ah yes, I should just let the big strong men show me how much better they are than me. I am always wrong, and they always know what they are talking about. They get to correct me, I don't get to correct them. They get to be good at video games/martial arts/everything, and I just get to be impressed by them. You really don't think that's kind of sucky? That I have to be passive and weak, or else I'M labeled the problem? If that's what it takes to get a guy, then it's good I'm giving up. I am not passive, I am not skinny. I am apparently nothing guys want, so why bother. But that's not what she's saying. There is a middle ground here, where both people get a chance to have strengths and focus. If a guy 'corrects' you and it makes you not interested in him anymore, but ALL MEANS, walk away and say "Nevermind." But if you're still interested, don't turn it into a correction ****fest is all; that's never ever going to work out to be a good, fun situation for you. In the case of the one dialogue you listed, the guy corrected you on something that was mildly incorrect and possibly is a pet peeve of his. Now, tone matters, and I can't hear that, as I wasn't there, but there are two options given: He was socially awkward or he was being a dick. If you're sure he's an *******, the answer is to walk away. If you think he may have just been socially awkward, the answer is to try to smooth it over. You don't have to bat your eyelashes and preen and act like you never heard of a Triforce before. You can just say, "Oh, yeah, that's the name for it---sorry" and move into a conversation. You can even HAVE a conversation about Zelda --- talk about a Zelda game you love, ask him which one he likes best, whatever --- but don't make it argumentative, don't worry about how much you know or he knows or how much he thinks you know, and don't make it such a major facet of your identity to 'know' more or enough or be beyond correction or whatever. Just take it down a notch and see how that goes. It's hard, I know, because I'm an argumentative person too sometimes. No one is saying you have to be passive or not have interests or passions or whatever. We're saying you have to be less argumentative and less competitive in order for your social life to improve. It doesn't make you any less "good" at anything.
Author verhrzn Posted March 2, 2012 Author Posted March 2, 2012 You know, V, in my time I beat a LOT of guys at competitive gaming. I still have never gotten into the kind of arguments you describe. Yes, there were guys who absolutely had to put me down to make themselves feel like they were better. That is the plight of the gamer girl. It was annoying, but it really wasn't worth my time arguing with them, and it definitely made me NOT want to date them, so it didn't matter either way. Besides, it was more fun laughing at them when I beat them and other guys made fun of them. And if they were genuinely better than me and beat me, then I suppose their boasts have merit. I didn't need to argue to PROVE anything. You always seem to feel like you do. In that way, I don't see how you are any better than those guys. Could have nothing to do with you being physically attractive and the guys not arguing with you because they didn't want to offend you. You also COULD prove yourself through your competitive gaming. In these guys' eyes, there was nothing I could do short of being perfect to prove myself. OP, instead of wasting your time here why don't you do some physical activity (joining gym, etc)? Every week I: volunteer once, I go to the gym 3-4 times, do martial arts for 2-3 hours, and do dancing for 2 hours. I don't think I could squeeze many more things into my schedule without sacrificing sleep.
aj22one Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 I thoroughly enjoy being intellectually challenged by women, especially women I'm interested in. So I can't imagine why this would be a problem.
zengirl Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 V, I think what it comes down to and what you lack in a lot of situations is nuance. You see things as very black or white---either you're aggressive or your passive, either you're beautiful or you're hideous, either guys like you or they hate you, either you're right and good at things or you're wrong and terrible at them---and it's causing a lot of needless arguments. Most of life is just not about winning/losing, right/wrong, ugly/pretty, etc. It's about nuance. I would say as an exercise to try to go 100% aggressively for the middle ground, almost to the point of obsessing, for awhile, just so you realize it when you see it. It's a funny exercise because it allows one to still BE extreme while learning to be mild. 5
Author verhrzn Posted March 2, 2012 Author Posted March 2, 2012 I would say as an exercise to try to go 100% aggressively for the middle ground, almost to the point of obsessing, for awhile, just so you realize it when you see it. It's a funny exercise because it allows one to still BE extreme while learning to be mild. I have.... no idea what in the world you mean by this. How would you even do this? So, I should be completely neutral about everything? Have no personality at all?
SCandy Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Why not date a fat guy like your self. Birds of a fat feather, date together, as they say....
zengirl Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 I have.... no idea what in the world you mean by this. How would you even do this? So, I should be completely neutral about everything? Have no personality at all? No, the whole idea is for you to come to understand that you can have a personality without always exercising extremes. You don't feel 'neutral.' You feel 'mildly.' You open your mind up a bit more. You realize that it's not about being 'right' or 'wrong.' You just don't throw yourselves into things as much. You don't HATE things, you don't LOVE things, you just allow your reactions to be just as true but more mild. It's not about not having feelings; it's about toning them down and not always choosing to 'fight' for your feelings but being open to seeing a number of possibilities. I will try to think of an example and come back with it later, in terms of how to implement (maybe others can too if they know what I'm talking about) because I know that sort of thing helps you, but I do have to go get some work done for the moment.
stillafool Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 I already said I was giving up. Single men want hot girls. I finally got the message loud and clear. I'l be alone forever, no husband, no family, and die by myself. Gee, what a fantastic life, but I guess that's all us fatties and uglies get, but hey, life isn't fair, right. Sorry you took offense but someone had to say it. Of course all men like hot girls and that's never going to change. Women like hot guys and that's never going to change either. However, there are a lot of women and men who date, love and marry not so "hot" people. Have you ever watched "Bridezilla"? Most of them aren't pretty but the men they marry think they are. You continue to talk about not being skinny and beautiful and to be honest there is nothing you can do about that - NOTHING. Even with plastic surgery. So what? Most of the women in the world are not beautiful; but it doesn't mean they won't fall in love and marry. They are doing it everyday. Maybe you can't get the hottest guys to go for you but you can get a guy. I say 'get in where you fit in' and maybe that means lowering your standards in what the guy looks like. Perhaps you are going out with friends who are "hotties" and comparing their experience with men to your own. If this is the case you can try hanging out with a different set of friends who do not make you feel bad about your lack of success with men. I'm glad you are getting professional help. What does your therapist tell you to do? It takes time to make progress in therapy, don't give up.
xxoo Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 You open your mind up a bit more. You realize that it's not about being 'right' or 'wrong.' You just don't throw yourselves into things as much. You don't HATE things, you don't LOVE things, you just allow your reactions to be just as true but more mild. It's not about not having feelings; it's about toning them down and not always choosing to 'fight' for your feelings but being open to seeing a number of possibilities. Maybe not the best example, but in the Zelda or Batman scenarios, a friendly "I didn't know that," is true, is mild, smooths things over, and doesn't take anything away from your overall geeky expertise. No one knows everything. You may find yourself deeper in a pleasant conversation, and surprised to hear him say "I didn't know that!" in response to something you say
Boo Radley Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 ... Except then I end up friend-zoned. But he may have friends that you can also meet? Think of it like a new door opening. And I HATE approaching. I dont like it either. But apparently if I don't do it, I'm a gold-digging worthless whore who expects men to wait on her hand and foot, and I deserve to be alone and abused. There really is no way to win, is there? None of those things are true. Are they?
Mme. Chaucer Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 This is the real root of all the problems you post about here: False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1
ShannonMI Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Could have nothing to do with you being physically attractive and the guys not arguing with you because they didn't want to offend you. You also COULD prove yourself through your competitive gaming. In these guys' eyes, there was nothing I could do short of being perfect to prove myself. Every week I: volunteer once, I go to the gym 3-4 times, do martial arts for 2-3 hours, and do dancing for 2 hours. I don't think I could squeeze many more things into my schedule without sacrificing sleep. And you are a supposed "fattie"? I don't buy it. From your weekly schedule, it sounds like you should be in very good shape. I've seen pictures of you and you are not fat. The poor, pitiful me thing is getting old, V.
ShannonMI Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 This is the real root of all the problems you post about here: False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Very true. Someone else on this thread said the same thing. That's it in a nutshell.
Recommended Posts