So How Are Women Supposed to Approach Men?

[ShannonMI]

Not always a bar. Sometimes it was at a sci-fi convention. There was a time when I was at the salad bar at work, and a very cute guy was next to me in line. I asked him in a friendly jokey tone if he could get some vegetables for me, because my arms were too short to reach the container. He did it for me, looked at me weird, and then quickly fled.

 

I usually picked em out because I think they are look cute and my type. A few times my friends have forced me to talk to the guys; literally shoved me in the guy's direction. If I like how he looks, I walk up to him and make some sort of joke comment. Not usually as lame as "How bout them Yankees," but probably not that far off.

 

 

 

How in the world do you work on your 'radar'? Is it possible that guys just aren't into me, in which case, approaching is just gonna result in nothing but further rejection?

 

The types of guys I'm attracted to are usually nerdy or intellectual types. I've tried approaching "normal" guys once or twice, and their response is the same as my coworker... look at me really weird, and then walk away.

How many threads and posts are you going to make about how you have zero luck with men? Am I the only one who is exhausted from reading this sh*t? I'm not trying to be a bitch, but enough already. You are a cute girl, so maybe it's your piss poor attitude or utter lack of self esteem that these guys can sense a mile away. Neither are a turn on. And you shoot down any and all advice and suggestions. You keep arguing back and forth with the posters on here.

 

I say just forget about finding a boyfriend/husband or whatever it is you are looking for and let him FIND YOU!! Mr. Right may just fall into your lap when you least expect it. Or seek therapy to help your poor self esteem issues. I'm serious. That's probably your number one issue. Sorry to be so blunt, but come on girl!!

[Lonely Ronin]

There was a time when I was at the salad bar at work, and a very cute guy was next to me in line. I asked him in a friendly jokey tone if he could get some vegetables for me, because my arms were too short to reach the container. He did it for me, looked at me weird, and then quickly fled.

Ok, I would have looked at you funny if you said that to me. The first thing you did was degradate yourself.

 

 

I usually picked em out because I think they are look cute and my type. A few times my friends have forced me to talk to the guys; literally shoved me in the guy's direction. If I like how he looks, I walk up to him and make some sort of joke comment. Not usually as lame as "How bout them Yankees," but probably not that far off.

OK, this is a cold approach, it's very aggressive and has the greatest chance of failure. Don't do this unless you are prepared to face a lot of rejection. Like I said earlier look for a guy to check you out, and only then approach.

 

 

How in the world do you work on your 'radar'? Is it possible that guys just aren't into me, in which case, approaching is just gonna result in nothing but further rejection?

I'm not talking about figuring out if guys are into you, I'm talking about the radar you need to have to weed out the d-bags. The moo'ing guys for example, you should have never approached them. Ideally you should have been able to see from across the room that they are all dip **** frat boys, and thus avoided them completely. Usually close female friends should help with this.

 

 

 

I've tried approaching "normal" guys once or twice, and their response is the same as my coworker... look at me really weird, and then walk away.

Like I said earlier, the first thing you did was degrade yourself. Don't do that. Try something like hey whats that your drinking? listen for response. I've never had that before, is it any good? If a guy is into you, he is going to find something to keep talking to you about. if you don't sense him wanting to continue the conversation then walk away.

[El Brujo]

But how do I know which men are interested?? From my observations, guys don't really seem to give out "I'm interested" body signals. They just... approach. That's HOW they show interest. How do you tell the difference between a guy who is giving signals and being friendly?

 

If he's trying to look you in the eyes as opposed to ogling your figure, he may be deeper than he looks.

 

I mentioned that I've read books about body language

 

Well now, that's where you're going wrong. Don't rely on body-language books as gospel.

 

But if you have bad instincts, then what?

 

In that case, think with your head instead of your heart. (There now, that wasn't so difficult, now was it?)

 

Furthermore, if I never get any signals (guys don't smile at me, or check me out) then would approaching even really help?

 

No.

[mesmerized]

Why do you care so much about men anyway? God knows you would have cured cancer by now if you had spent the same energy and time in labs.

[zengirl]

3) The guy argues with me. Like he'll be sort of stand-offish and snotty, and not very talkative, until I mention something about myself... like me liking video games, or martial arts. Then he'll start arguing with me about how I don't REALLY like video games, I'm just SAYING I do (I'm a "poser"), or how he bets my martial arts sucks and he knows way more than I do, etc.

 

This last one happens the most.

 

And if nobody is watching me? Can I now be off the hook for being judged about not approaching guys?

 

The first one is just jerks being jerks. Can't do much about *******s, sorry. The second one is genuine disinterest. THIS one, however, is likely a facet of that 'exhausting' conversation style your Mom mentioned. You're as much a participant in that conversation as they are. So, how do these happen? Analyze it, figure it out, get more success.

[xxoo]

The first one is just jerks being jerks. Can't do much about *******s, sorry. The second one is genuine disinterest. THIS one, however, is likely a facet of that 'exhausting' conversation style your Mom mentioned. You're as much a participant in that conversation as they are. So, how do these happen? Analyze it, figure it out, get more success.

 

+1

 

They can't argue with you unless you are arguing back!

[verhrzn]

The first one is just jerks being jerks. Can't do much about *******s, sorry. The second one is genuine disinterest. THIS one, however, is likely a facet of that 'exhausting' conversation style your Mom mentioned. You're as much a participant in that conversation as they are. So, how do these happen? Analyze it, figure it out, get more success.

 

So.... I should let them say I'm a poser, I'm a fraud, my martial art sucks, etc? I suppose I should just walk away when it gets to that point, but it seems kind of awful to let a falsehood stand. Kind of like, proving them right.

 

It seems to happen because I, ya know, disagree with them. Should I just shut up and let them continue to tell me their opinion, even if I think it's blatantly wrong?

 

 

How many threads and posts are you going to make about how you have zero luck with men? Am I the only one who is exhausted from reading this sh*t? I'm not trying to be a bitch, but enough already. You are a cute girl, so maybe it's your piss poor attitude or utter lack of self esteem that these guys can sense a mile away. Neither are a turn on. And you shoot down any and all advice and suggestions. You keep arguing back and forth with the posters on here.

 

Well I just got told in another thread that I'm 20 pounds overweight, and everyone on this forum knows how much the world hates fatties, so...

 

Sorry these threads annoy you. Put me on ignore? I'll probably keep making them until I either figure out what's wrong or drive myself deep into despair and finally give up. I still say I don't shoot down all advice.... I question it, when it doesn't make sense to me.

 

And yes, telling me my self-esteem is the problem when I'm constantly being told how overweight, ugly, and "sea cow-like" I am, doesn't make sense to me.

[Eddie Edirol]

 

But how do I know which men are interested?? From my observations, guys don't really seem to give out "I'm interested" body signals. They just... approach. That's HOW they show interest. How do you tell the difference between a guy who is giving signals and being friendly?

 

 

You dont worry about who likes you and who doesnt. You walk up to the ones you like and say "Hi". If they give you a funny look, you make a joke. If they still give you a funny look, you walk away and go to the next one. Thats it. You keep doing it until a man engages conversation. Then, you converse with him until you realize youre not getting anywhere, and then you move on. Once you do this a few times, you wont care about rejection, it will just turn into fun. Your self esteem will skyrocket because you wont care about results, and you will sharpen your conversation skills.

[veggirl]

So.... I should let them say I'm a poser, I'm a fraud, my martial art sucks, etc? I suppose I should just walk away when it gets to that point, but it seems kind of awful to let a falsehood stand. Kind of like, proving them right.

 

How do these conversations begin? What brings it to this point? You say "I play video games!" and they say" BULLSH.IT, POSER!!!!" ?? Doubtful.

 

I'd imagine this: "I love video games" "Oh please...you? No, you're just saying that" and then you could, I don't know, laugh and say "maybe you'll be lucky enough to see my skills sometime"

 

I really, really, really doubt that these guys are as hostile straight off the bat as you say they are.

 

Can you come visit me? I wanna see you in action. I guarantee I could get you a date if we went out!

[Els]

To answer the thread question: Take your shirt off.

 

Seriously though, I'm going to repost something I said to you a while back that I don't think you read, and while it may seem like a threadjack now, almost all your threads end up going in the same direction anyway.

 

 

It's fairly obvious that no one on this board has been able to help you in any meaningful way. You've shot down pretty much every attempt anyone has made to give you their insight as to why you have the issues that you do, and you fight them tooth and nail every single time. In that way, you're a lot like a vocal handful of posters: you love talking about how woeful your life is, no one can understand or help you, and yet you insist on writing thread after thread of self-loathing melodrama.

 

So what's the point in you posting here? Are you not just wasting your valuable free time?

 

I know that LS is sometimes touted as an "advice" board, but it is actually dangerous to treat it as such. A lot of people here are damaged beyond repair and will project their own unhappiness onto you, even some of the respected "board regulars". There was a "Loveshack sucks" blog for a short while (that you can still Google) that was largely true in its assessment of this website. It's a great place to have a debate about issues that most people don't talk about in person because it may implicitly or explicitly involve intense criticism of the opposite sex. It is NOT a good place to receive constructive advice from anyone. Some of the most dysfunctional daters of both sexes frequent LS; addicts, perpetual spinsters, people from woefully dysfunctional families, people with daddy/mommy issues, gold-diggers, divorcees, and so forth.

 

I learned my lesson long ago that virtually no one on LS is qualified to give advice to anyone else. In the few instances when I did post about relationship issues here, I almost always received all sorts of shrill, presumptuous and contradictory nonsense that both board regulars and irregulars spewed, despite the fact that much of what I asked about was hardly controversial or offensive.

 

So what is LS? It's a forum where people seek advice about a very sensitive topic, romantic relationships, given out by people who have never met you and really don't know the first thing about you, whose own romantic lives most often resemble a Greek tragedy.

 

The only advice I'll give is the only truly responsible advice: talk to professionals, talk to a trusted friend, talk to a family member. Talk to someone who knows you. Treat LS for what it actually is.

 

I agree that everyone should ALWAYS take romantic advice from an anonymous forum with a fist-sized grain of salt. I really do.

 

I think the plus point of a forum, however, is that you get a lot of input, so you can filter out and focus on the ones that are actually good. Yes, they exist - I can personally name a few regulars who have actually helped me a lot over the years. The good advice usually does not tell you what to do ('Break up with him!' 'She's just a fat gold-digger, don't bother!'), but offers several perspectives that you can look at and offer you interesting viewpoints and questions to think about. Basically, they help you find your own way, because it's impossible for anyone here to directly help anyone. That is what professional therapists do as well, although certainly they are better qualified to do such.

 

But I completely agree with the crux of the issue - that no one here has been able to help V, though I have seen many well-intentioned posts that might possibly have helped a girl in a similar situation, and I hope they have. Regardless, professional help would be a much better idea at this juncture.

[verhrzn]

How do these conversations begin? What brings it to this point? You say "I play video games!" and they say" BULLSH.IT, POSER!!!!" ?? Doubtful.

 

I'd imagine this: "I love video games" "Oh please...you? No, you're just saying that" and then you could, I don't know, laugh and say "maybe you'll be lucky enough to see my skills sometime"

 

I really, really, really doubt that these guys are as hostile straight off the bat as you say they are.

 

Can you come visit me? I wanna see you in action. I guarantee I could get you a date if we went out!

 

That'd be hilarious. I'd actually love to try it, just to show you how bizarre my life is, and what a freak I really am.

 

Here's how the conversation usually goes: "Oo I like your Zelda keychain." "Um, it's a tri-force, it's not Zelda's symbol." "Well I just meant I like it, I'm a big Zelda fan." "When you don't even know what a tri-force is? Obviously you're not that big a fan." "Well I've played a few of the games." "Everybody has played a few Zelda games, it's not anything special to like them."

 

A guy once got really upset with me and told me I was a poser because I wasn't able to accurate place Tim Drake in the successive line of Robin's. ("I bet you only like Batman from the cartoons.") I dunno, maybe I just run into the hipster-nerds.

 

This comic is a fairly accurate portrayal of how my conversations with nerdy (or intellectual, swap in the nerd references for books or various philosophies) guys goes: http://i.imgur.com/IFDHq.jpg

[Els]

Nobody is denying that SOME guys can be like that, V, but ALL? Really???

[verhrzn]

Nobody is denying that SOME guys can be like that, V, but ALL? Really???

 

Hand to heart, swear on a stack of Bibles. Like I said, it's either that, ignoring me, or insulting me. I know it seems unbelievable. Gotta seen to be believed, but I promise you, I ain't make this stuff up.

[Els]

Shrug, I would tell you that you're likely dismissing some demographic of guys who aren't doing that, or inflating the bad stuff in your mind so much that it overrides any good/neutral stuff, but I have a feeling you'll deny it. Given that I can't possibly win, since you know your RL better, may I suggest moving? Because I've lived in 2 vastly different countries and 4 cities/towns, talked with guys all over the world online, and never once have I encountered such a large percentage of douches.

[verhrzn]

Shrug, I would tell you that you're likely dismissing some demographic of guys who aren't doing that, or inflating the bad stuff in your mind so much that it overrides any good/neutral stuff, but I have a feeling you'll deny it. Given that I can't possibly win, since you know your RL better, may I suggest moving? Because I've lived in 2 vastly different countries and 4 cities/towns, talked with guys all over the world online, and never once have I encountered such a large percentage of douches.

 

Maybe cause you're attractive. I still say it's my ugliness that turns guys into douches. After all, guys are nice to girls they find attractive.

 

I just f*cking give up. Nothing I do works, and all people on this forum do is tell me to grow some self-esteem AFTER telling me what an annoying, fat liar I am who never listens. So fine, whatever, just close the thread and everybody put me in ignore, cause I'm sick of it and you're sick of it, and it looks like it ain't ever gonna change.

[Els]

There you go with the hyperbole again. Where on earth did I, or some of the other posters, tell you 'what an annoying, fat liar I am who never listens'???? You're doing it AGAIN. Taking the crap and amplifying it so much that now it genuinely seems to you that everyone really IS calling you 'an annoying, fat liar who never listens'. Just like what I suspect you are perceiving in those guys.

 

Of course there ARE people who essentially called you that, but only their words matter to you, and none of ours.

 

So yes, screw it.

[Leigh 87]

I have a theory.

 

It is a self fullfilling prophecy: you are conditioned to believe these awful things are GOING to happen. So, they do.

 

You give off a vibe or approach the wrong men at the wrong times, and perhaps u unconsciously make the very WORST happen to you.

 

 

Another theory.

 

You have been conditioned to think your truly ugly and NOT capable of attracting men. So, you don't. You had some bad luck with a few IDIOTS, JERKS, A- HOLES, and now some part of you makes this always occur.

 

 

 

There are ways you subsonsciously self destruct, based on begative experiences in your life... Seek professional help, as IT IS THE ONLY thing that can help you.

 

Really, no one here can help you. All we can do, is make it very clear that a professional is the only person who can delve deap into the matter, and see patterns and things that have occurs in your life, that makes all men do this to you....

 

 

It is not because your hidious. Trust me: a lot of men are not even that rude to truly ugly people.......

[xxoo]

So.... I should let them say I'm a poser, I'm a fraud, my martial art sucks, etc? I suppose I should just walk away when it gets to that point, but it seems kind of awful to let a falsehood stand. Kind of like, proving them right.

 

It seems to happen because I, ya know, disagree with them. Should I just shut up and let them continue to tell me their opinion, even if I think it's blatantly wrong?

 

Yep, let it go. Laugh it off. Change the subject. Walk away.

 

But don't argue with men you were trying to approach! Keep the energy light.

 

Does it really feel awful for you if a stranger doubts you? Why?

 

Here's how the conversation usually goes: "Oo I like your Zelda keychain." "Um, it's a tri-force, it's not Zelda's symbol." "Well I just meant I like it, I'm a big Zelda fan." "When you don't even know what a tri-force is? Obviously you're not that big a fan." "Well I've played a few of the games." "Everybody has played a few Zelda games, it's not anything special to like them."

 

A guy once got really upset with me and told me I was a poser because I wasn't able to accurate place Tim Drake in the successive line of Robin's. ("I bet you only like Batman from the cartoons.") I dunno, maybe I just run into the hipster-nerds.

 

 

After the bolded, why not ask him a question or two about the tri-force?

 

"Oh! What's a tri-force, exactly? Is that [insert zelda context here]?" And then let him tell you about his interests.

 

Same thing with the Batman. When he obviously had more knowledge about it than you, ask him some questions. Take interest in his passion. "Oh, yeah, I'm not that knowledgeable about the series. But I do enjoy it. So, who was your favorite Robin?"

[Els]

Pretty much right there, xxoo. TBH, I almost never claim to be a 'huge fan' of stuff, or actually call myself a geek.. it does seem a lot like trying too hard. I suppose I just let my actions speak for myself usually, or refer sparingly to it if the conversation goes that way and let the guy ask the questions if he wants. In fact, if I DID happen to be mistaken in anything, I would just say 'oops, my mistake', and would most definitely not claim to be a huge fan of it!

 

All that being said, that doesn't excuse the guy's response to V IMO.

[zengirl]

So.... I should let them say I'm a poser, I'm a fraud, my martial art sucks, etc? I suppose I should just walk away when it gets to that point, but it seems kind of awful to let a falsehood stand. Kind of like, proving them right.

 

If you randomly walk up to a guy and say something and he calls bull****, I'd walk away personally. To me, arguing is more likely to 'prove them right' than walking away.

 

That'd be hilarious. I'd actually love to try it, just to show you how bizarre my life is, and what a freak I really am.

 

Here's how the conversation usually goes: "Oo I like your Zelda keychain." "Um, it's a tri-force, it's not Zelda's symbol." "Well I just meant I like it, I'm a big Zelda fan." "When you don't even know what a tri-force is? Obviously you're not that big a fan." "Well I've played a few of the games." "Everybody has played a few Zelda games, it's not anything special to like them."

 

This does not surprise me, based on the type I imagine for you. I know people like this. They're annoying. As others have said, there are other ways to steer the conversation at different points (and tone matters a lot), but you are always going to get some skepticism from the nerdy male crowd when you go in with video game references and such. I always did/do. Whatevs. That's not related to attractiveness (if anything, it can increase with attractiveness).

 

Here's a question I have for you: Are you a 'big' Zelda fan? Do you know Zelda's symbol offhand (or did you prior to that convo)? Were there any questions you could've asked him. Now, he was socially awkward (or a dick, but just as likely the former) in the way he corrected you, but you refused to let yourself be corrected. You took it personally. Geez, it's just Zelda. If you don't take it personally and he DOES, then, yes, walk away, but if you do, it's only going to escalate the argument. That's my advice.

 

A guy once got really upset with me and told me I was a poser because I wasn't able to accurate place Tim Drake in the successive line of Robin's. ("I bet you only like Batman from the cartoons.") I dunno, maybe I just run into the hipster-nerds.

 

And maybe you put too much stock in being right and what you know, and then people love to see you be wrong. Trust me, I've been there. If you care less about proving yourself and being 'right,' the world will care a lot less about this silly stuff.

 

I run with hipster nerds. Not all of them are super annoying, though some are (some of the girls are too), and are just like this, yes, but you can totally choose to remove yourself from the dynamic by not making it a competition. If you go into any conversation with a new guy you're hoping to date and make it a competition/combative situation/argument/prove how much I know session, it's probably not going to turn into a date, like 99.9% of the time, unless he's super weird. In a way, perhaps these men are giving you a chance to back down and be sociable and you're not taking it.

 

Maybe cause you're attractive. I still say it's my ugliness that turns guys into douches. After all, guys are nice to girls they find attractive.

 

Nice guys are nice to everyone, and, besides, pretty sure I'm hot, especially in the nerd community, and I've had the same situations --- had them much more back when I would've argued with the guy. Now, I'd either walk away, laugh, or try to steer the question in a more positive direction (I usually give nerds a few minutes to become non-combative, female nerds too, since so many start out that way and it's not necessarily indicative that they're jerks).

 

Maybe you should also try to date some non-nerds?

[SCandy]

I don't see what is so mystical about a fat girl not being able to score a fit, cute guy.....all she has to do is lose some weight....she is lazy, that is her problem. She wants it all now...

[verhrzn]

Maybe you should also try to date some non-nerds?

 

Non-nerds don't like me. But hell, nerds don't like me either. Guys don't freaking like me.

 

I don't know why I keep fighting it. Guys want a hot chick, and I am never going to be that. I am never going to be skinny, I am never going to be attractive, and no matter what I freaking do, it's gonna be wrong. Apparently they can be an a**hole to me, but I can't defend myself because then I'm "argumentative."

 

I am never going to find a relationship. I give up. This fattie will take herself off the market, and stop trying, because it's obviously what men want from me.

 

Just close the thread, I can't do this anymore.

[SCandy]

Just show us what you look like!

[Eddie Edirol]

 

Of course there ARE people who essentially called you that, but only their words matter to you, and none of ours.

 

So yes, screw it.

 

 

haha! When you get Elswyth to say screw it, youre truly doomed. lol

[xxoo]

I don't know why I keep fighting it. Guys want a hot chick, and I am never going to be that. I am never going to be skinny, I am never going to be attractive, and no matter what I freaking do, it's gonna be wrong. Apparently they can be an a**hole to me, but I can't defend myself because then I'm "argumentative."

 

If a guy is really an a**hole to you--a guy you just approached, and said something neutral to him--why spend another moment in his company defending yourself?

 

It is very difficult for us to believe that all these guys START as a**holes. You do have a communication style that is argumentative (it is apparent in your posts here, in the sample conversations you've relayed, and even your mother has given you this feedback). It seems much more likely that you are communicating in a way that brings out that side in the men you approach.

 

What about the concrete communication suggestions we gave you above? Could you try that, without feeling like you've let the guy win, or been proven wrong?