Conclusion: Men really are strange

[Oxy Moronovich]

Oh my ass. "Keep trying to find someone special." That's where the deluded "soulmate" ideology comes in.

 

But I guess you're right, not expecting "specialness" in a man isn't helping either.

It's 11:50 pm on a Friday night and Oxy Moronovich is in his tighty-whiteys on a relationship forum full of members who are dateless or in unhappy relationships. Normally, I'd consider this lame, as I should be out enjoying the night. But I've been working 7am to 4pm shifts all week; plus, I'm trying to save money; and I already have a girlfriend, so clubbing isn't necessary. So maybe I'm not so lame.

 

Maybe I could be a girl like FrustratedStandards. She's sitting lonely at her computer, making whiny/male-bashing posts on a Friday night, while her youth slowly slips away. Instead of going out, she wants to sit at the computer and constantly hit the refresh button so she can see all the replies in her little troll thread. Gee, I wonder why men aren't running over each other to get with an awesome babe like her.

[FrustratedStandards]

It's 11:50 pm on a Friday night and Oxy Moronovich is in his tighty-whiteys on a relationship forum full of members who are dateless or in unhappy relationships. Normally, I'd consider this lame, as I should be out enjoying the night. But I've been working 7am to 4pm shifts all week; plus, I'm trying to save money; and I already have a girlfriend, so clubbing isn't necessary. So maybe I'm not so lame.

 

Maybe I could be a girl like FrustratedStandards. She's sitting lonely at her computer, making whiny/male-bashing posts on a Friday night, while her youth slowly slips away. Instead of going out, she wants to sit at the computer and constantly hit the refresh button so she can see all the replies in her little troll thread. Gee, I wonder why men aren't running over each other to get with an awesome babe like her.

 

Appreciate the support. Glad to know you're happy with a girlfriend and enjoying your friday evening

 

Whenever your relationship ends, i'll remember to reply just like this when you post your frustrations. Have a good weekend.

[SJC2008]

Do you want to meet someone or do you want your ego stroked buy being hit on in public? If you want to meet someone go online or to a matchmaking service. You want to be approached (which MOST men don't do) by a random man at wherever you are. What are the odds he'll be at least your height, attractive enough for you, makes enough money for you, is a good fit personality wise for you etc... Those are a lot of parameters and the odds are way against it. Let's say there is a 75% chance of you getting hit on (making it high on purpose) now factor in everything else odds wise and they still l go down.

[musemaj11]

American men should adopt a more aggressive style in approaching women. They are too timid, and I guess it's no wonder why women here have started to approach men, since that's the only way they're going to get these guys out of their protective shell.

And in other countries the women are subservient to their men and do everything at home. American women need to be more servantly. They are too lazy. No wonder why men these days have started having to help with domestic chores and putting up with disobedient women because these women are their only choices.

 

You see how the logic goes? You want women to be able to have the cake and eat it, too.

 

And how many times does a man do something so trivial like hold a door and girls across the room gush at it?

 

You don't see it, but I do. If a man buys a woman a drink, women will notice. And they will automatically gain a certain respect for him, because he knows how to make a woman feel like a lady. And that's very important.

 

It's hard to feel lady like when you sit alone all night, buy your own drinks till you're broke and then have to hail a cab with your last dollars to get as close to home because no man will offer you a ride.

 

ALL in heels and a dress. Definitely doesn't feel like you're a lady. More like an ugly, unwanted woman who wasted a night.

Men have no obligation to spend money on you. You have a job. Buy it yourself.

[PlumPrincess]

My statement for the day:

 

I live in Europe and I got hit on way more often when I was in the US. Guys seemed to be chattier and friendlier in general to women in the street (but I would also say, that depends on where you are). I've heard American women here complain that they didn't get approached at all unlike at home. A guy once told me women here are so stuck up and American women are way more open to approaches, so this might be the reason why guys here don't approach that much.

 

I once saw this "study" from some tabloid. They compared different men in Europe in regards to their dating habits. I don't remember much, but what they said about Italian men stuck with me. The study claimed that Italian men would hit on any women - old, young, beautiful, ugly, anybody as long as she is female and they can have sex with her. I'd say, it's true!

 

If I liked a guy, I would like him to pay for my drink (not food) on a date. It's also ok if it turns out to be more a friendship thing. I would rather not have strangers pay anything for me. That's something I don't get. I don't like owing anybody anything and accepting stuff from people you don't even know?

[PlumPrincess]

Originally Posted by FrustratedStandards

And how many times does a man do something so trivial like hold a door and girls across the room gush at it?

 

You don't see it, but I do. If a man buys a woman a drink, women will notice. And they will automatically gain a certain respect for him, because he knows how to make a woman feel like a lady. And that's very important.

 

It's hard to feel lady like when you sit alone all night, buy your own drinks till you're broke and then have to hail a cab with your last dollars to get as close to home because no man will offer you a ride.

 

ALL in heels and a dress. Definitely doesn't feel like you're a lady. More like an ugly, unwanted woman who wasted a night.

If this is what you believe than it's not surprising that you can't find anyone. Men will catch on an attitude like that. And I think unless you're in a very macho country, you won't find many men who are ok with your expectations.

[somedude81]

Hmm, I didn't catch that post of hers.

 

So FS, what would you do to make the guy feel like a man since he went through all that trouble for you?

[joystickd]

What about the first two dates?

 

Oh my gawsh. That's a huge turn off. You honestly sound like a great guy, and I really like you from what I've read on LS, but seriously? Not a dime till third date?

 

How is it a date then? It feels more like a dinner with a friend. Again, this is MY own view of things, clearly your wife didn't feel the same way, and its great that it has worked out for you.

 

But I don't bash men. Well actually. Yes I do. I call them pussies. But that's not bashing. The truth hurts.

 

Again, its not on how much money you spend or if you spend anything at all. It's the attitude towards the woman that is shown through chivalry. If you had held the door on the first date, picked her up from her place, picked up the tab and then kissed her on the cheek goodnight, it would have been much more romantic and she would have felt MUCH more like a lady.

 

"Wow, this guy didn't just take me out, he took me out."

 

Not pussies. I know me and the guys I know approach. The thing is you give off a bad vibe probably. If someone approaches and you are not receptive then it shows and men will not waste time on you. The main issue here is YOU.

[musemaj11]

My statement for the day:

 

I live in Europe and I got hit on way more often when I was in the US. Guys seemed to be chattier and friendlier in general to women in the street (but I would also say, that depends on where you are). I've heard American women here complain that they didn't get approached at all unlike at home. A guy once told me women here are so stuck up and American women are way more open to approaches, so this might be the reason why guys here don't approach that much.

 

I once saw this "study" from some tabloid. They compared different men in Europe in regards to their dating habits. I don't remember much, but what they said about Italian men stuck with me. The study claimed that Italian men would hit on any women - old, young, beautiful, ugly, anybody as long as she is female and they can have sex with her. I'd say, it's true!

In other words women just want to have their unrealistic fantasy handed to them on a silver platter.

 

They basically want to just sit and do nothing and have desirable guys, guys who are attractive, successful and romantic, flocking to them, competing to wine and dine them and all these desirable guys are loyal men who approach no one else but them only.

 

Yeah right. Get real ladies.

 

If I liked a guy, I would like him to pay for my drink (not food) on a date.

And if I liked a girl, I would like her to have sex with me as soon as possible.

 

We all would like many things. But that doesnt mean we are entitled to it.

[anne1707]

Just because one nation is not at all passive and weak like Canada does not mean they are dumber.

 

Aside from that a SMART person would know better than to generalize. I guess if the world generalizes the Americans like that then they are not smart themselves. There is plenty of personalities in every country. And ONE thing Americans do stand apart from the rest. Is their ability to help out one another. You don't get that in the rest of the world. One of the most giving people-if not the most-is the American public.

 

Aren't you now making a generalisation about Americans to the detriment of the rest of the world. As you said, smart people would know better than to do that.

[Els]

And how many times does a man do something so trivial like hold a door and girls across the room gush at it?

 

You don't see it, but I do. If a man buys a woman a drink, women will notice. And they will automatically gain a certain respect for him, because he knows how to make a woman feel like a lady. And that's very important.

 

It's hard to feel lady like when you sit alone all night, buy your own drinks till you're broke and then have to hail a cab with your last dollars to get as close to home because no man will offer you a ride.

 

ALL in heels and a dress. Definitely doesn't feel like you're a lady. More like an ugly, unwanted woman who wasted a night.

 

Because, my dear, you have this idea that acting the part of a 'lady' (as defined by you) makes you absolutely entitled to your rather narrow definition of a man acting the part of a 'gentleman'. It does not.

 

I don't know a single adult who goes out expecting a stranger to fetch her back home, I really don't. Why aren't you driving? If you can't drive, you should be prepared to take a cab home. If you don't want to have to walk to a cab in heels, don't. Bring flats along or heck, just wear them. The boys might pass you over for another girl just because she's doing the heels illusion on them, but the real men won't care.

 

The real men WILL generally care that you're going to a bar expecting to have everything paid for and to be driven home. That just isn't the way things work as adults.

 

Besides, would you REALLY accept a ride home late at night from a man you just met in a bar?????

[anne1707]

Just because one nation is not at all passive and weak like Canada does not mean they are dumber.

 

Aside from that a SMART person would know better than to generalize. I guess if the world generalizes the Americans like that then they are not smart themselves. There is plenty of personalities in every country. And ONE thing Americans do stand apart from the rest. Is their ability to help out one another. You don't get that in the rest of the world. One of the most giving people-if not the most-is the American public.

 

True is what not "a" generalisation. It was two generalisations.

[Kamille]

The "men in North America" vs "Men in Europe" is a futile argument, for many reason, the first of which being that people are using stereotypes to make these generalization.

 

But then there are precise reasons why it's a futile argument, especially when applied to Toronto. First of all, half of the population in Toronto was born outside of Canada. Second, I lived in Europe and in many cities in Canada, and nowhere was I approached more often than in Toronto (with the potential exception of Montreal). I have many friends who could corroborate this fact. If something is going on, it has nothing to do with the nationality of these men. Men in Europe weren't any more likely to offer to buy drinks or open doors if we weren't already on a date.

[betterdeal]

I admit it, I am a pussy. Now where are the lesbians?

[FitChick]

FrustratedStandards, since you believe you are too good for online dating and don't have luck going out in public, why not spend the money for a matchmaking service where a woman (generally) personally vets men and sets you up on blind dates? The men are successful businessmen. Because you say you are under 30, you should be able to get the pick of the litter. It sounds like you could afford the fee.

[Ruby Slippers]

In my experience, it's true that European men approach far more than American men. They just have fun with it. (I don't know about Canadian men.) I lived in two different Euro countries for quite some time, and traveled a lot. I got hit on 5-10 times more often than I ever have in the US. And most of the guys were sexy gentlemen.

[Oxy Moronovich]

In my experience, it's true that European men approach far more than American men. They just have fun with it. (I don't know about Canadian men.) I lived in two different Euro countries for quite some time, and traveled a lot. I got hit on 5-10 times more often than I ever have in the US. And most of the guys were sexy gentlemen.

And yet, you didn't go with any of them. So it looks like all that approaching they did was a waste. It looks like you wanted the attention so you could say, "I got approached 5-10 times more in Europe than in the U.S. but I only wanted their attention. Good for me!"

[Oxy Moronovich]

I admit it, I am a pussy. Now where are the lesbians?

That's pretty much the ultimate question in all these male-bashing threads. If men suck, then how come you're not a lesbian already? If yer not gonna become a lesbian then you gotta deal with our crappy behavior, bitch.

 

That's pretty much gonna be my response to all male-bashing threads.

[Ruby Slippers]

And yet, you didn't go with any of them. So it looks like all that approaching they did was a waste. It looks like you wanted the attention so you could say, "I got approached 5-10 times more in Europe than in the U.S. but I only wanted their attention. Good for me!"

Well, the first time I was only there for a semester, and I was very young and made the stupid mistake of having a boyfriend back in the US. I had endless temptation and opportunity with guys way more attractive and interesting than my boyfriend, but I don't cheat.

 

The second time, my American boyfriend moved to Europe with me, and as soon as we broke up, another fella swooped in and won me over.

 

If I knew what I know now, I would have stayed single and done a lot more dating while I was there.

[KathyM]

And in other countries the women are subservient to their men and do everything at home. American women need to be more servantly. They are too lazy. No wonder why men these days have started having to help with domestic chores and putting up with disobedient women because these women are their only choices.

 

You see how the logic goes? You want women to be able to have the cake and eat it, too.

 

 

Men have no obligation to spend money on you. You have a job. Buy it yourself.

Since most American women work full time outside the home, and most American men prefer to have a woman who works and has her own income, I'd say your expectation that women do everything at home in addition to their outside job is a bit much, don't you think? They are hardly lazy. Most women who have families also have an outside job, and then they come home to do more work, in taking care of the kids and the house. Men are the ones that are more likely to be not pulling their weight in other aspects besides their job. Men have started to help more around the house because their wives have full time jobs. It's only fair. The inequity is still there though--women are expected to work full time, bring home a paycheck to contribute to the family income AND take care of the majority of child care and housework. When that inequity has changed and men are doing their fair share of the work, let me know. So far, that is not the case. Women are still, for the most part, doing the majority of the work in the household and with childcare, in addition to holding down an outside job.

[Ruby Slippers]

While knowing you would have to go back to the US some day? And thus knowing you would have to break it off some day? As most visa's last only for a limited amount of time.

I earned the right to stay permanently and become a citizen if I wanted to, given my work experience and income -- not to mention a good ability to charm the immigration people as a fluent speaker of their language, with no crappy American accent.

 

If I had met someone who was an excellent match, and we could create a life that would allow me to visit the US at least once or twice a year -- or, better yet, be dual citizens of the US and his Euro country, with a place to stay in each place -- I would have gone for it.

 

I've always felt like a citizen of the world, and many of my closest friends moved to the US from other countries when they were young. I don't like the insular, arrogant, uninformed quality that so many Americans have.

[ThatDudeXO]

In my opinion, average looking men like myself get rejected way too often by girls who aren't "out of our league" to bother approaching certain women.

 

I've approached not-so-good looking or undesirable women and been rejected because they thought too highly of themselves. I get the idea people take themselves too seriously or set their standards so high that they think they're too good for you.

 

To be honest, I only approach women if she shows obvious interest and not stuck up.

[FitChick]

T I don't like the limitation of non-permanent visas, since you have to leave as soon as the visa expires.

 

Plenty of people overstay their visas in the US, because our Immigration service is staffed by well paid clowns.

[Ruby Slippers]

That sounds ideal, doesn't it? I'm thinking about a similar setup, as I don't like the limitation of non-permanent visas, since you have to leave as soon as the visa expires. With that obstacle in the way it seems hard to maintain a relationship in my opinion.

In my experience, all you need to do is prove that you are and will almost certainly continue to be a contributing, income-earning member of society. I must note, though, that I've only tried and accomplished this in one Western European country.

[FitChick]

Isn't it funny how countries make it so difficult and expensive to do things legally? The ones who are educated and successful follow the rules while the poor and illiterate just waltz in and demand benefits. And get them!

 

Fall in love with someone in the country of your choice and marry them.