Leigh 87 Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Were you alluding to my advice being bad? the advice I gave was perfectly good.....
ScreamingTrees Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Were you alluding to my advice being bad? the advice I gave was perfectly good..... No, not saying it was bad. I was imagining what it'd be like if she were to frequently go out with a desperate attitude.. Desperate guys might pick up on her desperation. She might attract guys whom she's not into..
Millen Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 OP, yeah I also dislike how you used the word "p*ssy" to refer to men. Not cool. Yeah, I agree *raising eyebrows* Why would a healthy, well adjusted male strongly desire to get 'pussy whipped' by a women who sees 'men as pussies' ? Re so-called successful power women who focus on careers and getting ahead who have so much bad luck with men - good luck to them. In my experience long running relationships take a lot of work & sacrifice too - no less than any career.
oaks Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 It's hard to feel lady like when you sit alone all night, buy your own drinks till you're broke and then have to hail a cab with your last dollars to get as close to home because no man will offer you a ride. It's hard for you to feel ladylike if you have you buy your own drinks? Did I read that right?
Leigh 87 Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 The MAIN POINT of the thread, should be: " girls need to go out, with the intention of having FUN with their friends. Looking happy, having fun, and being attractive enough to men, will result in men hitting on you. If your out LOOKINg or HOPING to meet men, u will not meet them. It shows when girls HOPE to meet men" Your out at a club.... Guys noticed u, they talked to u, and they did not like you enough to pursue you. If your reasonably attractive, the problem would have been things to do with how the conversation went, the chemistry, the feel he had about you, the impression u gave, any number of reasons could have resulted in him not being interested. You cannot take it personally. Your not every ones cup of tea, no matter how great you are. It is great fun to get guys attention, to flirt, and to feel wanted and desired... however, u should never go out HOPING that : if you do the right things, guys will want u". Have fun when it happens, but u cannot go out with the mindset, where u SEEK it in any way. Look at flirting as a bonus. Just make sure to come across as a warm person in general, the type who will be friendly, and not shut guys down rudely.
mtber75 Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 How can Canada be considered the smarter of the two? They don't even have a space agency and have they landed a man on the moon? No. Not to mention we have one badass military! Seriously, a lot of people (outside the states) still think 911 was a conspiracy???
KathyM Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 You can tell women that also. Get off your arse and put your dignity on the line and do the approaching yourself. Approaching is not the job of men. Its not our obligation to approach you so you dont have to do it yourself and can just sit and wait to take your pick. Sorry men today are a lot smarter and we could see through your manipulative tricks. Anyway, Im not timid. I make a move when I find a woman attractive and I feel we might be compatible. But even if I dont approach, I still get women come to me by themselves. Its just that usually they are not up to my standard so I prefer not to just sit and wait. The men who are willing to pursue and are not hung up on waiting for signals to approach are the ones who will be getting the most opportunities for a date. And you are right that if you wait around for women to approach you, it is usually the women who have a harder time finding dates that are willing to put themselves out there and approach men. You may think that's not fair, but that is life. Women who have more options and get approached by a lot of guys, don't feel the need to approach guys themselves. So the question becomes, do you want to be the chooser who selects who you want to date and be willing to approach women who you have an interest in, or do you let the more aggressive guys who aren't afraid to put themselves out there to get those girls? And then you just wait around to be approached by women who you may not have a real interest in. The men with the most success, and who have the best chance of getting the girls that they want, are the ones who are not hesitant to approach. 2
futuremom Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 You can tell women that also. Get off your arse and put your dignity on the line and do the approaching yourself. Approaching is not the job of men. Its not our obligation to approach you so you dont have to do it yourself and can just sit and wait to take your pick. Sorry men today are a lot smarter and we could see through your manipulative tricks. Anyway, Im not timid. I make a move when I find a woman attractive and I feel we might be compatible. But even if I dont approach, I still get women come to me by themselves. Its just that usually they are not up to my standard so I prefer not to just sit and wait. NGL, all of your arguments up to this point sound like they have a thread of bitterness running through them--like it's not a calm, rational thing that you really believe in morally and philosophically, but it's tied to a possible traumatic event or great upheaval that tied a lot of rage to this particular subject, or perhaps women in general, if your signature is any indication. I would say you do something to work on that rage, or you're either going to end up very alone or with a woman with severe self-esteem issues. In any case, it can only help your own mental health to not be so...what is the clinical term I'm looking for here...douchey? 1
dreamingoftigers Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Not to mention we have one badass military! Seriously, a lot of people (outside the states) still think 911 was a conspiracy??? Yes, our military has a brand new fleet of canoes! But seriously we actually have the 6th largest space agency in the world. Not bad for a population of 33 million.
Kamille Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Not that I'm aware of Ruby. At least not in real life. As a new member I can't receive or send PM's yet, but if you want I could give you my e-mail address. giving out the email info is always tricky. You'd have to post it and then press on the edit button rapidly to erase it. If anyone posts in the second when your email is visible, it'll remain in your loveshack account. (Moderators can delete it, but there is a specific request in the TOU to not post private information publicly). Why not just wait until you have pm privileges? This usually takes about a month and something like 70 to a hundred post. You seem well on your way.
musemaj11 Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) The men who are willing to pursue and are not hung up on waiting for signals to approach are the ones who will be getting the most opportunities for a date. And the women who are willing to initiate are also the ones who will be getting the most opportunities for a date. And you are right that if you wait around for women to approach you, it is usually the women who have a harder time finding dates that are willing to put themselves out there and approach men. Thats because unlike men, women would rather settle with someone they aren't really into than actually going after the ones they really want. Women who have more options and get approached by a lot of guys, don't feel the need to approach guys themselves. The same with attractive men who have women flocking to them. They dont need to approach anyone. So the question becomes, do you want to be the chooser who selects who you want to date and be willing to approach women who you have an interest in, or do you let the more aggressive guys who aren't afraid to put themselves out there to get those girls? And then you just wait around to be approached by women who you may not have a real interest in. The men with the most success, and who have the best chance of getting the girls that they want, are the ones who are not hesitant to approach.As I said before, I make a move when I find a woman attractive and I feel we might be compatible. But I dont approach because women tell me that men should be more aggressive in approaching them so women dont need to do the approaching themselves and can just sit and wait to take their pick as if approaching is the job of men and women shouldnt have to do it. Sorry, if you dont like it that men aren't approaching you as you would like them to, then do the approaching yourself. Once again approaching isn't a gender obligation of men. Men do not need to approach women anymore than women need to approach men. NGL, all of your arguments up to this point sound like they have a thread of bitterness running through them--like it's not a calm, rational thing that you really believe in morally and philosophically, but it's tied to a possible traumatic event or great upheaval that tied a lot of rage to this particular subject, or perhaps women in general, if your signature is any indication. I would say you do something to work on that rage, or you're either going to end up very alone or with a woman with severe self-esteem issues. In any case, it can only help your own mental health to not be so...what is the clinical term I'm looking for here...douchey? My quotes are facts. For every man who uses a woman for sex, there is a woman who uses a man for money. And women only want equality with men when it comes to the paycheck. But once outside the workplace they suddenly forget about equality and want men to bear more financial responsibility. Selfish and stupid. Edited March 5, 2012 by musemaj11 2
zengirl Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 And you are right that if you wait around for women to approach you, it is usually the women who have a harder time finding dates that are willing to put themselves out there and approach men. You may think that's not fair, but that is life. Women who have more options and get approached by a lot of guys, don't feel the need to approach guys themselves. This is not necessarily true. Could be generational, of course, but I know many women who don't have any trouble approaching in many situations and don't have trouble dating (also get approached). I was one of them when single. I think most women who truly have trouble dating aren't out there approaching guys because women, on average, have an even lower threshold for dating rejection than men---and most men who truly have trouble dating approach FAR below the number of women successful men do. Granted, some women get approached enough AND hate rejection enough they never do approach, but I don't know any girls who constantly approach and face a lot of rejection. Most of the women I know who are proactive about their dating life are at least reasonably, if not extremely, desirable and get asked out plenty. Anyway, women are socialized to believe they'll have less success if they approach -- overall success, in terms of forming a real relationship -- so you do see some women who will approach for hookups but not if they actually like a guy, etc. This is all socialization more than success, IMO. Just because 50 guys ask a girl out doesn't mean she won't ask the 1 guy she is interested in out if he's not coming over---in fact, I think she's more likely to if she IS approached often.
Ruby Slippers Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 I suppose that in situations like these I could post a temporary throwaway e-mail address that can be spammed. Once someone from Loveshack e-mails me on that address, then I'd e-mail them my actual e-mail address back. Not in real life, hmm? Sure, that would be good
Author FrustratedStandards Posted March 5, 2012 Author Posted March 5, 2012 As I said before, I make a move when I find a woman attractive and I feel we might be compatible. For every man who uses a woman for sex, there is a woman who uses a man for money. How do you feel you are compatible if you are only looking at them? You will know if you are compatible after you speak with them. Looks are deceiving. As for the second part, that's probably true.
Author FrustratedStandards Posted March 5, 2012 Author Posted March 5, 2012 Whether I feel like a lady or not has no relationship to who paid for a drink for me. Now that I think of it, some of my least ladylike phases included having lots of drinks purchased for me by men … It's funny how everyone thinks. Everyone STILL hears $$$$$. It's not like I go expecting a ride home or someone to buy my drinks. I have my own ways of getting around, and I don't need to be rescued. Nor do I need a ride. But i'm saying it would be NICE. But it never happens. If this is what you believe than it's not surprising that you can't find anyone. Men will catch on an attitude like that. And I think unless you're in a very macho country, you won't find many men who are ok with your expectations. Yeah, not many alphas. Hmm, I didn't catch that post of hers. So FS, what would you do to make the guy feel like a man since he went through all that trouble for you? Last time I checked, men were the hunters. The woman doesn't need to reciprocate. As for relationships, thats different. Once you are exclusive, you have to give back. I am the perfect girlfriend when i'm with a guy. I've never been dumped. The problem is I haven't had that many relationships due to the not approaching. The very few men that did approach me were glad they did. I'm just surprised that if i'm such a great girlfriend (had to turn down 2 marriage proposals) then why am I not being approached more often? On one end it's me. I'm very picky, very high standards. On the other end, I measure up to the kind of guy that I want. There are great guys like this out there (albeit few) and they don't approach. I just don't understand why. They end up with psycho b*tches who are jealous, who nag and give them a hard time, when they could be with someone like me who would love and appreciate them. Yet somehow, they end up with the crazies and I am alone.
kaylan Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 ^^^ "Alpha" minded dudes know better than to pay for your drinks. The macho dudes that Plum was referring to, are the typical "pussy on a pedestal" guys who feel they need to buy a womans attention. They feel they need to use money to show how much of a man they are. Doesnt work often from what I have seen and they easily end up getting used.
zengirl Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 Last time I checked, men were the hunters. The woman doesn't need to reciprocate. Well, it's 2012. When a man 'hunts' a woman who's not reciprocating, we call that harassment (or worse) and we get restraining orders. Yes, men want to see a little interest in return, which seems pretty healthy to me. Why don't you want interactions to be mutual?
Author FrustratedStandards Posted March 5, 2012 Author Posted March 5, 2012 Since most American women work full time outside the home, and most American men prefer to have a woman who works and has her own income, I'd say your expectation that women do everything at home in addition to their outside job is a bit much, don't you think? They are hardly lazy. Most women who have families also have an outside job, and then they come home to do more work, in taking care of the kids and the house. Men are the ones that are more likely to be not pulling their weight in other aspects besides their job. Men have started to help more around the house because their wives have full time jobs. It's only fair. The inequity is still there though--women are expected to work full time, bring home a paycheck to contribute to the family income AND take care of the majority of child care and housework. When that inequity has changed and men are doing their fair share of the work, let me know. So far, that is not the case. Women are still, for the most part, doing the majority of the work in the household and with childcare, in addition to holding down an outside job. Exactly. Well said Kathy. And men are still, for the most part, doing the majority of the courting and bearing the majority of financial expense. When that inequity has changed and women are doing their fair share, let me know. Men have no obligation to approach women just as women have no obligation to be subservient to a man. You want men to be less timid and be more aggressive in approaching women because it benefits you as a woman. That way men will do the dirty work for you so you dont have to. But you have to understand that's its all about mentality. I'm the kinda gal who expects the man to be the provider, while I do housework, cook and clean etc. I think that's fair. Equality doesn't mean you do half of absolutely everything. It means you split up the responsibilities equally. Either the woman does all the housework + kids and the man is the provider, or both work, take care of the kids, cook etc. But she has a point, often the woman does more. Not because the man implies it, but because she is a mom, and she instinctively handles those things better. I honestly see nothing wrong with the whole provider/housewife mentality. If she wants to work, go ahead, but she shouldn't be responsible for the sole financial contributions to the family. She has to carry a baby for 9 months, ruin her vagina for it, have a mentrual period every month, go through menopause and hormonal symptoms, and on top of that you expect her to cook, clean, raise kids, work AND have half the financial responsibility? What the hell is a man good for then? Hugs and kisses?
Author FrustratedStandards Posted March 5, 2012 Author Posted March 5, 2012 Well, it's 2012. When a man 'hunts' a woman who's not reciprocating, we call that harassment (or worse) and we get restraining orders. Yes, men want to see a little interest in return, which seems pretty healthy to me. Why don't you want interactions to be mutual? OBVIOUSLY you show interest. By reciprocate I thought you meant financially or by doing favors, like paying half the meal or driving him. If you aren't reciprocating in terms of interest, conversation and company, then the woman shouldn't be on the date in the first place. That's what I thought you meant.
kaylan Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 I like reciprocation in ALL respects. I think your lack of success in dating is that you havent joined the men you meet in the year 2012. Most guys have moved on with the times and more than likely sense all of your expectations...thus it being a turn off.
Author FrustratedStandards Posted March 5, 2012 Author Posted March 5, 2012 I like reciprocation in ALL respects. I think your lack of success in dating is that you havent joined the men you meet in the year 2012. Most guys have moved on with the times and more than likely sense all of your expectations...thus it being a turn off. Then the problem is probably mentality. My expectations of men are different than other women who have evolved to think in this "modern" way. As a result, men have adapted to this way of thinking which renders my own very different. But that doesn't mean i'm wrong. It just means i'm not "up-to-date" and the truth is I wouldn't want to be.
zengirl Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 OBVIOUSLY you show interest. By reciprocate I thought you meant financially or by doing favors, like paying half the meal or driving him. If you aren't reciprocating in terms of interest, conversation and company, then the woman shouldn't be on the date in the first place. That's what I thought you meant. Well, most of my real dating has been done in the SE (though I've flitted about all over and dated in a few other countries as well), and I've pretty much never been on a first date with a man who didn't want to pick up the tab. That's a customary attitude in the South, even among my generation. (If I knew I was going to reject him later, I paid my share, because it seemed polite.) I don't think that's quite the same as a man you JUST MET buying you drinks --- granted, I've had that happen, but I never expect it --- or giving you a ride home (that doesn't seem safe to me, FWIW). Of the men I actually dated (STRs and LTRs), most of them who could afford it were more than happy to pay for everything and did so naturally --- though I have always been one to chip in, personally, not necessarily on early dates as much --- but I think they'd still be put off if it was expected. Then, it's not fun to do it, you know? It's like if I do something nice for someone and they're mildly surprised and pleased, I feel good. If they EXPECT it, I feel annoyed. That's just psychology. Anyway, that has nothing to do with men approaching you. The attitude of expectation that seeps into everything maybe does, but not whether men still like paying for dates or driving or not (FWIW, I've NEVER been in the car with hubby and driven; if we go somewhere together, he always drives---but because I hate driving and he loves it). And anyway men DID approach you in the bar---you just didn't meet them halfway and keep the interaction going and keep their interest. C'est la vie. 1
ffw Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 OP, If I remember correctly in one of your posts, you said you are very picky about your partner. Perhaps this is causing you to send negative signals when a guy approaches you. I didn't understand from your posts clearly what do you want from the men who approach you? Are you willing to have a relationship or one night stand with who ever approaches you? Also, next time try not to generalize the whole gender because of your few experiences. We already have lot of crying babies here.
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