Single and looking ladies, and options

[RedRobin]

You are right, SD, I probably shouldn't have posted a question to something that I think I already know the answer to now.

 

Best of luck...

[Untouchable_Fire]

*Shrugs* It's a personal thing. Sales strategies work for some people. I could just never be a salesperson, as a job or for myself. It just feels too artificial and, like I said, manipulative to me. I also just lack the "selling" skills. I am me, with both my flaws and my strengths existing at the forefront. Wear my heart on my sleeve and all that. My mother likes to say that I actually have the opposite of trust issues... I will metaphorically expose my underbelly to strangers before I find out if they can be trusted, because of my honest nature.

I also don't think any sale strategy would work if you weren't selling what the customer wants to buy. Since guys want hot girls initially (with personality added on later), you DO need that attractive front in order to even get them to listen to your pitch. Thus, sale strategies are kinda worthless for girls without the attractive front. Approaching dating like sales seems to work best for attractive women who don't know to take dating further than the initial attraction.

 

I work in sales. The secret isn't manipulating people... that is what people who suck at sales do... and they don't last very long. People HATE to be manipulated, and they will bad mouth you and never come back if you do that.

 

As a woman I don't think you will really understand this on a gut level, because for guys dating and selling are a very similar process.

 

Let's say you are attempting to sell yourself. First, you want to make sure a visual inspection doesn't turn too many buyers away. To do that just make sure everything is clean, and realize that not everyone has the same taste.

 

Next step is to locate potential buyers and catch their attention. This can be the hard part for some people.

 

Once you have an interested buyer THIS is where skill becomes important. You have to give up the idea that this process is about you and what you are selling. First and foremost this is about the BUYER and what they want. You need to find out as much about the buyer and his wants and needs as quickly as possible. Once you have an understanding of what he is looking for... THEN you start to emphasize features and benefits. Don't give out much information upfront once you have interest, because you don't know what he wants. Make the process all about him and what he needs.

 

I'm out of time... but that should be a good start.

[verhrzn]

I work in sales. The secret isn't manipulating people... that is what people who suck at sales do... and they don't last very long. People HATE to be manipulated, and they will bad mouth you and never come back if you do that.

 

As a woman I don't think you will really understand this on a gut level, because for guys dating and selling are a very similar process.

 

Let's say you are attempting to sell yourself. First, you want to make sure a visual inspection doesn't turn too many buyers away. To do that just make sure everything is clean, and realize that not everyone has the same taste.

 

Next step is to locate potential buyers and catch their attention. This can be the hard part for some people.

 

Once you have an interested buyer THIS is where skill becomes important. You have to give up the idea that this process is about you and what you are selling. First and foremost this is about the BUYER and what they want. You need to find out as much about the buyer and his wants and needs as quickly as possible. Once you have an understanding of what he is looking for... THEN you start to emphasize features and benefits. Don't give out much information upfront once you have interest, because you don't know what he wants. Make the process all about him and what he needs.

 

I'm out of time... but that should be a good start.

 

An interesting insight into sales, but I think it de-credits Zengirl's point (that you just need to like yourself, or... something) than mine.

 

My original point was that when trying to approach dating as a "sales" venture, I knew what the buyer (in this case) men, wanted. They want a physically attractive woman (a visual inspection) with a good personality (features, benefits.)

 

Since I can't make it past the first stage (I have a bad visual inspection) then the rest is pointless knowledge, which is why marketing/sales strategies in dating wouldn't work for me. Can't remember if I said this in another thread, but it seems like the marketing/sales would work well for women who can't push dating past that initial attraction stage.

[ScreamingTrees]

Anybody else notice the obscene post?

[Nightsky]

So how do you break out of this double standard without either dating people you're not that attracted to or developing a neurosis about not being attractive enough for the people that you do want to date?

 

That's the eternal question no one has ever answered.

 

You know the answer, you just don't like it.

 

You want greatness? Well greatness costs, and its time you start paying in blood, sweat, and tears.

 

Can't have pleasure with out pain.

[veggirl]

omfg SD, you require at least a B-cup?! :lmao:

 

Who is dating all the fat / ugly girls then if you, a guy who can't get a date, won't even touch em?

 

When's the last time you asked a girl out, SD?

[fortyninethousand322]

You know the answer, you just don't like it.

 

You want greatness? Well greatness costs, and its time you start paying in blood, sweat, and tears.

 

Can't have pleasure with out pain.

 

No I don't know the answer. Is it that you have to put yourself through the meatgrinder every day? Doesn't sound too fun.

[Red Arremer]

Welp, it's a good thing I don't use my work internet to view this board. Thanks for that!

 

As far as not having options, I believe that everyone except for the VERY unlucky few have at least one person that would consider dating them, even if it's just a random OLD contact. The actual problem is standards. Everyone has options, just maybe not good ones.

[somedude81]

omfg SD, you require at least a B-cup?! :lmao:

 

Who is dating all the fat / ugly girls then if you, a guy who can't get a date, won't even touch em?

 

When's the last time you asked a girl out, SD?

What's wrong with wanting at least a B cup?

 

As far as I've read, a C is average.

[verhrzn]

Anybody else notice the obscene post?

 

I reported it like an hour ago. Mods? Bueller?

[Nightsky]

No I don't know the answer. Is it that you have to put yourself through the meatgrinder every day? Doesn't sound too fun.

 

Some of the most fun I ever had.

[veggirl]

What's wrong with wanting at least a B cup?

 

As far as I've read, a C is average.

 

Wanting and requiring are quite different. I just think that's a goofy requirement. Plus, sometimes I just want to strangle you, so I reply in anger to your posts.

[Red Arremer]

Also for exercise and self-improvement type stuff, the key is to make very small changes incrementally. It takes longer that way but large changes won't stick and you'll backslide a lot and feel like dung.

[zengirl]

Simply put, in that world view, guys get to have criteria but girls don't. ANY guy who will screw her is an "option" for a girl, yet a fat old lady is not an option for this guy.

 

I don't believe that anyone must date people they're not attracted to.

 

Right! There's no use analyzing what anyone's range is or what each individual finds attractive (it will all differ!) but everyone should get to have criteria, male or female, or no one should. Since I seriously doubt SD is going to give up his criteria and hit on obese women (or any woman, really), he should really stop complaining about women not dating every guy who wants to go out with them.

 

An interesting insight into sales, but I think it de-credits Zengirl's point (that you just need to like yourself, or... something) than mine.

 

I didn't say you "just" had to like yourself. It isn't a magic bullet. I was saying no WAY would anyone who didn't like themselves be able to sell much without being manipulative, especially in dating.

 

At any rate, UF and I have very different sales styles. There are many out there that work. I do agree with him that only bad salespeople manipulate.

[zengirl]

So you've never had any acquaintances that wanted to date you?

 

Never had a guy at work that talked to you a little more than what was needed?

 

I've had acquaintances ask me out -- sometimes I said yes, sometimes I said no; if I said no, we probably didn't hang out as much afterwards -- and I've dated men from work previously (not my current work). I've turned down men before, certainly, but they were just asking me out. I was in a relationship all through HS, so if anyone had a crush on me, I certainly didn't know it, and I never kept 'orbiters' as an adult.

 

As I said, I never assume someone wants a RELATIONSHIP (what you said) with me just because they asked me out. As I said, most men don't pine after and fawn over girls they asked out once and were rejected by. That's not healthy behavior. (And I would not allow such a person in my life, frankly.)

[verhrzn]

It's not a magic bullet. I was saying no WAY would anyone who didn't like themselves be able to sell much without being manipulative, especially in dating.

 

At any rate, UF and I have very different sales styles. There are many out there that work. I do agree with him that only bad salespeople manipulate.

 

Well I should specify that I don't think salespeople themselves are manipulative, but the very act of selling is manipulative. Ya know, playing to my "needs." Trying to sell me something, or get me to buy something. But that's the dirty misanthrope in me, not wanting to give people something (money, a sale) unless I, independent of outside forces including them, desire to give it to them.

 

Kind like... when I walk into a store, I am walking into a store to buy something specific. I want a iPod. Yes, I am buying an iPod because I have a desire for a device that plays music. But don't try to sell me a Zune, I don't want a Zune, I don't care about its nifty features, I want the freaking iPod!

 

I might be kinda weird in this regard, though, so the way I conduct my life (treat others as you want to be treated) might be too outside the box to get sales like you guys are discussing.

[zengirl]

What's wrong with wanting at least a B cup?

 

As far as I've read, a C is average.

 

Average cup size is a C but not among women who are not obese or who have natural breasts:

 

Until a few years ago, the average American breast size was 34 B. It has since changed to a 36 C, due to the large amount of women that have had breast augmentation surgery and the fact that the American public is getting heavier.

 

That's from: Q&A Breast Anatomy, but the sizing seems conclusive.

 

Breasts are literally fat. Therefore, the heavier a person is, the heavier her breasts (on average). Average dress size of American women is size 14. Therefore, a size 14 (a plus sized woman) woman is likely to have a C cup, but anyone under that size is likely to have smaller breasts---and that's without including the increasing numbers of surgical statistics.

 

FWIW. I presume, since you constantly talk about overweight women like they aren't even prospects and you're insulted that they exist, that you aren't dating anyone anywhere near a size 14.

[somedude81]

Wanting and requiring are quite different. I just think that's a goofy requirement. Plus, sometimes I just want to strangle you, so I reply in anger to your posts.

Then what's wrong with requiring at least a B? It's still below average.

 

I just want something I grab, and as far as I can tell, anything smaller is flat.

I've had acquaintances ask me out -- sometimes I said yes, sometimes I said no; if I said no, we probably didn't hang out as much afterwards -- and I've dated men from work previously (not my current work). I've turned down men before, certainly, but they were just asking me out. I was in a relationship all through HS, so if anyone had a crush on me, I certainly didn't know it, and I never kept 'orbiters' as an adult.

 

As I said, I never assume someone wants a RELATIONSHIP (what you said) with me just because they asked me out. As I said, most men don't pine after and fawn over girls they asked out once and were rejected by. That's not healthy behavior. (And I would not allow such a person in my life, frankly.)

Then you're assuming they just wanted sex. Which you can't prove either.

 

Either way, your just arguing semantics. My point should have been clear.

[fortyninethousand322]

I've had acquaintances ask me out -- sometimes I said yes, sometimes I said no; if I said no, we probably didn't hang out as much afterwards -- and I've dated men from work previously (not my current work). I've turned down men before, certainly, but they were just asking me out. I was in a relationship all through HS, so if anyone had a crush on me, I certainly didn't know it, and I never kept 'orbiters' as an adult.

 

As I said, I never assume someone wants a RELATIONSHIP (what you said) with me just because they asked me out. As I said, most men don't pine after and fawn over girls they asked out once and were rejected by. That's not healthy behavior. (And I would not allow such a person in my life, frankly.)

 

Actually, I think this is a tell-tale sign of the kinds of men you know or meet. Not really reflective of a broad spectrum.

 

You really haven't hung out much with down on their luck men have you?

[zengirl]

Well I should specify that I don't think salespeople themselves are manipulative, but the very act of selling is manipulative. Ya know, playing to my "needs." Trying to sell me something, or get me to buy something. But that's the dirty misanthrope in me, not wanting to give people something (money, a sale) unless I, independent of outside forces including them, desire to give it to them.

 

Kind like... when I walk into a store, I am walking into a store to buy something specific. I want a iPod. Yes, I am buying an iPod because I have a desire for a device that plays music. But don't try to sell me a Zune, I don't want a Zune, I don't care about its nifty features, I want the freaking iPod!

 

I might be kinda weird in this regard, though, so the way I conduct my life (treat others as you want to be treated) might be too outside the box to get sales like you guys are discussing.

 

In real selling, you're trying to match the right customer (someone who actually will want or need the product once they understand its merits) to the product. At least selling that works long-term.

[somedude81]

Average cup size is a C but not among women who are not obese or who have natural breasts:

 

 

 

That's from: Q&A Breast Anatomy, but the sizing seems conclusive.

 

Breasts are literally fat. Therefore, the heavier a person is, the heavier her breasts (on average). Average dress size of American women is size 14. Therefore, a size 14 (a plus sized woman) woman is likely to have a C cup, but anyone under that size is likely to have smaller breasts---and that's without including the increasing numbers of surgical statistics.

 

FWIW. I presume, since you constantly talk about overweight women like they aren't even prospects and you're insulted that they exist, that you aren't dating anyone anywhere near a size 14.

Then I wonder what average size is among girls that are not overweight.

 

I wish they kept track of those demographics.

[zengirl]

Then what's wrong with requiring at least a B? It's still below average.

 

I just want something I grab, and as far as I can tell, anything smaller is flat.

 

Then you're assuming they just wanted sex. Which you can't prove either.

 

Either way, your just arguing semantics. My point should have been clear.

 

No, I'm assuming they wanted a date. Most people don't decide immediately whether or not they'd have a relationship with someone, unless the answer is definitely no---that was a main part of my point.

[zengirl]

Then I wonder what average size is among girls that are not overweight.

 

I wish they kept track of those demographics.

 

Well, for matters of your superficiality, it doesn't really matter. As I've explained: "averages" don't impact superficiality. If someone didn't like you because you were beneath average height, it's no less superficial because you don't match the average.

[zengirl]

Actually, I think this is a tell-tale sign of the kinds of men you know or meet. Not really reflective of a broad spectrum.

 

You really haven't hung out much with down on their luck men have you?

 

Perpetually down-on-their-luck blame-the-world types? No. Why would I? But it's not like all the men and women I know have happy dating lives all the time. Healthy people do not develop absurd fixations with a member of the opposite sex who is clearly not interested in them; they may have a passing crush, but instead of nurturing it, they extinguish it and move on. That's. . . how they stay healthy.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

 

I only need a girl who isn't obese and she has to at least be cute and no smaller than a B.

 

 

Why is it a double standard.

 

Would you date an obese man?

 

Also, as it's well known, men are visual. Personally, I consider the hourglass womanly figure to be something akin to art. Too much excess fat is just throwing paint at a masterpiece.

 

Um … because you have a problem with women having criteria? Only men are allowed to have their "minimums"? Because a fat old man who's at least a B cup asking me out equates to a viable "option" for ME, in your view. But the female counterpart (minus the B cup) who might be interested in YOU is not even really thought of as a person.

 

Remember when you used to mainly whine about your height? Well, you were not okay with women who passed you by because of it, since you think of yourself as a "nice guy."

 

What about the flat chested fatso self professed "nice" ladies whom you reject?

 

I have no problem with ANYONE having preferences and sticking by them. My problem is that you are only okay with men doing so.