Ms. Red Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Noelle, By taking responsibility for your past and your actions instead of making yourself into a victim**, you give your little daughter the best conditions possible. It's important that you're at peace with your past since your daughter is the result of your past and negative emotions about it (like bitterness) may affect your daughter negatively. **victim meaning you thinking that your weren't right mentally etc. That would make you a victim of things that were out of your control. 3
Author noelle303 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Posted March 2, 2012 Noelle, By taking responsibility for your past and your actions instead of making yourself into a victim**, you give your little daughter the best conditions possible. It's important that you're at peace with your past since your daughter is the result of your past and negative emotions about it (like bitterness) may affect your daughter negatively. **victim meaning you thinking that your weren't right mentally etc. That would make you a victim of things that were out of your control. I couldn't agree more with you and thank you. My daughter is loved by her father 100% and she knows it. This foundation will help her when she is being pursued by men. There are millions of children raised by single parents that turn out fine, but it is not the optimal situation. To assume that just by loving your child, that they will have no ill affects from the absense of a father, is rationalizing. And here you are implying that your child will only enter 100% healthy relationships while mine not so much. While it may be true for your daughter and I certainly hope it will be, as I previously mentioned; I was brought up in a loving two-parent household. My parents nurtured me, loved me, supported me, did not spoil me, I've been working since I was 16 despite growing up upper-middle class, I was top 5% of my class, never lacked friends, never lacked support. You truly sometimes can't affect the choices your children make. 1
skywriter Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 So WHY does the other one cheat? It's not my place to assume Why someone does or doesn't do something, because that's what it would be an assumption. 1
woinlove Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Noelle, I'm not sure why you started this thread as you don't seem open to considering other views. Perhaps you want reinforcement? As I mentioned, one day you might see something lacking or sad or broken (rather than fun) about liking to sneak around in the home of the BW. Maybe as you spend more years mothering, your views will change. For me, being a mother deepened my appreciation for human connections and the desire to make them positive. I never considered sneaking around positive, so you and I started from different places in that, but there is some overlap in that I was also an OW not wanting commitment. 1
woinlove Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Noelle, By taking responsibility for your past and your actions instead of making yourself into a victim**, you give your little daughter the best conditions possible. It's important that you're at peace with your past since your daughter is the result of your past and negative emotions about it (like bitterness) may affect your daughter negatively. **victim meaning you thinking that your weren't right mentally etc. That would make you a victim of things that were out of your control. I agree with the importance of looking back and taking responsibility and not thinking it was out of one's control, or it just happened. That is part of recognizing what is broken and wanting to fix it. Of course, if one does not see anything broken or lacking or undesirable in one's choices and actions, there is nothing to change and one might well make the same choices again. 2
NoIDidn't Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 This thread has taken so many turns and spins. I've already said that I definitely think there are some issues going on with the OP that gets involved with a married person, but I've also stated that the MP is having issues as well. I think its telling that so many OPs react negatively to both statements as if they were made personally about them - when they aren't. The reaction to the first statement as written so eloquently by Ms. Red is "you only say that to feel like you are better than me" - which is never what the statement ever meant. If anything its seeking to understand and show some commonality with OP as we all have issues. One reaction to the second statement is "so are you saying there had to be something wrong with the MP just to see me as interesting", yet another response showing the OP to take these things personally and as a negative attack on themselves. Another reaction to the second statement is "so you think I'm stupid for picking someone with all those issues". Why do OP think everyone thinks so negatively of them in all things EVEN to the statement that has NOTHING to do with them (about the WS issues)? 2
MissBee Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) The OW who is now married but still identifies as an OW and relishes almost in OtherWomanness and talks about all her past As and how wonderful they were....I do not get. For me, being in that position was a circumstantial role. Not a lifestyle choice that I relished. I didn't identify with it in real life, as I only really thought about it formally on LS....but some, how they refer to themselves and discuss being an OW, it is truly like a form of identity that is pervasive and not simply a title of convenience for LS discussion. That kind of person....I do believe has issues. That sort of thing reminds me of has-beens, who perhaps came in one movie or tv commercial at 15 years old, that stopped airing decades ago and at 50 they are still bragging about being an actor/actress...it just seems sad. Like their identity is wrapped up in this not-so-great thing and they have not moved on from that self-definition that stopped existing a while now. All they have are their has-been tales that have NO BEARING in current reality, they don't discuss it retrospectively, but as if it is renewed and alive right now. Like the former actor/actress who really seems to get self-definition and vigor from that one moment back then....there seems to be a kind of "OW mentor" who is the same way, that her self-definition seems to be wrapped up in the OW role...regardless of if it is no longer in existence. In retrospect you can at least see the good and bad, you don't always need to regret...but I am suspicious of those who their retrospect was perfect...they did everything perfect, it all worked out perfect, it was just so great and anyone who has any critique of their own past as not perfect is bitter and a victim...what?! I suppose there is also a difference between those who saw the OW role as transient and those who gain self-definition and who align with it. In fact, the term "reformed OW" lmao it always makes me chuckle, which is only used by a few, and I argue those who choose to use the term "reformed" belie their belief that being an OW is indeed some ideology and lifestyle of which one can even be "reformed" from. Even "unapologetic OW" belies a belief that this really is some form of ideology versus a circumstantial role. I guess that is the breakdown. I understand those who felt like "it just happened, I'd never normally do this BUT this was so special" where it is a truly transient role....then there are those who no matter what will always be on the side of how wonderful an A can be and reliving the glory days of an A even while not in an A. I will never get that. The notion is also that the ONLY people who live in reality are those currently in clandestine affairs or the mythical open affair that everyone knows about (which I do not see how it is an affair) or those who are no longer in an affair but are here to remind OW it could be great. Those are the only people who have any kind of sense and live in reality...while every person who is not in that category is a crazy, reformed OW who lives on some crazy planet that actually feels most affairs are problematic. Edited March 2, 2012 by MissBee 7
itsourchoice Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Wow, I completely disagree. My relationship is one of convenience for me. Don't get me wrong, I love him to pieces. But, I have several small children and don't have time for a full time relationship. He is married and his wife is an alcoholic. he is obliged to her but not fulfilled. Our relationship just gives each of us something we both need. You don't have to be messed up to need. Sorry, I disagree. 2
Quiet Storm Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Noelle, I understand that you feel that none of my post was true, but that was kind of the point of my post. At this point in time, you feel happy and content and OK with your choices. I get that. I just feel, from things that you have said, that you are rationalizing some things. I don't expect you to agree with me, but it's my opinion. To be honest, the more you post, the more your issues are coming to light (for me anyway). However, I don't feel that you have the insight into your own behavior to realize that. You may not be capable at this point in time, but time a maturity do wonders. You will get there, when you are ready. Understand that many things that all of us do or feel, come from a subconcious place. I don't feel that being married & having a father is guarantee that my kids will turn out fine, but I do think that foundation is very important. I think statistics show this, as well. I know you can't change what happened, but don't be naive about the "daddy issues" that your daughter may face. Knowledge is power, and learning what you can about the potential issues that she may have, is much more proactive then assuming she'll be fine because she has plenty of others to love her. The fact that you won't pursue child support because of threats that your daughters natural father will kill her, is just more evidence of the messed-upness of this situation (not because you won't pursue, but because the dad that should love & protect her wanted her dead). One thing that is laughable to me though, is that your parents did not feel that you were taken advantage of. You say you have great, supportive parents and that you were raised right. As a parent, I have enough life experience to know that there are very manipulative people surrounding us every day. As we mature, this becomes clearer. As a parent, I try to do two things with regards to dealing with others 1) I try to protect my kids from shady people 2) I teach my kids how to tell if they are being manipulated, so that they learn to recognize shady people on their own. It just doesn't seem feasible to me that mentally healthy parents who have their childs best interest at heart, would feel that a married guy having sex with their much younger daughter had good intentions. Seriously??? This does not compute for me. Either your parents aren't telling you how they really feel (and are doing you a great disservice, because these are truths that you need), or you are sugarcoating (rationalizing) their reaction. However, I am leaving the thread now because I don't think any of this is helping you. Maybe in 10-20 years you will look back and see what we are saying. At this point in time, I don't think that you are in a place to hear it in a constructive way, and it's only making you defensive, which isn't helpful to you. 5
Quiet Storm Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 You don't have to be messed up to need. No, but you have to be messed up to hurt others. Hurt people, hurt people. 2
MissBee Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Wow, I completely disagree. My relationship is one of convenience for me. Don't get me wrong, I love him to pieces. But, I have several small children and don't have time for a full time relationship. He is married and his wife is an alcoholic. he is obliged to her but not fulfilled. Our relationship just gives each of us something we both need. You don't have to be messed up to need. Sorry, I disagree. Your situation already spells out some issues What you "need" explains what your issues are. The point of what several have said is that sometimes you don't realize it is an issue...you think it is convenience, you think it just happened, the list goes on...and it is not until greater awareness comes that you may realize that why you did it was not as simple as you said. Him being unfulfilled and obligated to an alcoholic is already an issue.... 1
despicableME Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) The thing is, Noelle will never admit her fault in the whole mess. Remember, she graduated at the top 5% of her class- she knows it all, already. Not impressed. Edited March 2, 2012 by despicableME 1
NoIDidn't Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Wow, I completely disagree. My relationship is one of convenience for me. Don't get me wrong, I love him to pieces. But, I have several small children and don't have time for a full time relationship. He is married and his wife is an alcoholic. he is obliged to her but not fulfilled. Our relationship just gives each of us something we both need. You don't have to be messed up to need. Sorry, I disagree. So would you tell him to his face that you are only seeing him out of convenience? I think he might have some issues with that characterization of things. You don't have to be "messed up" to have needs, but I think there is a problem with using other people out of convenience to get those needs met. 2
Author noelle303 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Posted March 2, 2012 So if Noelle is happy with her choices, why the need for the thread, and the need to keep justifying herself? If Noelle is the type of person she wants to be, thinks she is a good role model, is the type of person she wants her daughter to grow up to be, then what does it matter what people she doesn't even know think? If you live your life with integrity, you never have to justify yourself to anyone. Why does anybody post anything here then? I simply wanted to express my POV...it's not like this board is my life but I like sometimes reading through it and posted a thread. Noelle, I understand that you feel that none of my post was true, but that was kind of the point of my post. At this point in time, you feel happy and content and OK with your choices. I get that. I just feel, from things that you have said, that you are rationalizing some things. I don't expect you to agree with me, but it's my opinion. To be honest, the more you post, the more your issues are coming to light (for me anyway). However, I don't feel that you have the insight into your own behavior to realize that. You may not be capable at this point in time, but time a maturity do wonders. You will get there, when you are ready. Understand that many things that all of us do or feel, come from a subconcious place. I don't feel that being married & having a father is guarantee that my kids will turn out fine, but I do think that foundation is very important. I think statistics show this, as well. I know you can't change what happened, but don't be naive about the "daddy issues" that your daughter may face. Knowledge is power, and learning what you can about the potential issues that she may have, is much more proactive then assuming she'll be fine because she has plenty of others to love her. The fact that you won't pursue child support because of threats that your daughters natural father will kill her, is just more evidence of the messed-upness of this situation (not because you won't pursue, but because the dad that should love & protect her wanted her dead). One thing that is laughable to me though, is that your parents did not feel that you were taken advantage of. You say you have great, supportive parents and that you were raised right. As a parent, I have enough life experience to know that there are very manipulative people surrounding us every day. As we mature, this becomes clearer. As a parent, I try to do two things with regards to dealing with others 1) I try to protect my kids from shady people 2) I teach my kids how to tell if they are being manipulated, so that they learn to recognize shady people on their own. It just doesn't seem feasible to me that mentally healthy parents who have their childs best interest at heart, would feel that a married guy having sex with their much younger daughter had good intentions. Seriously??? This does not compute for me. Either your parents aren't telling you how they really feel (and are doing you a great disservice, because these are truths that you need), or you are sugarcoating (rationalizing) their reaction. However, I am leaving the thread now because I don't think any of this is helping you. Maybe in 10-20 years you will look back and see what we are saying. At this point in time, I don't think that you are in a place to hear it in a constructive way, and it's only making you defensive, which isn't helpful to you. I have educated myself plenty as to what issues my daughter may face. I'm not deluding myself that this won't be a big deal in her life so please do not patronize. I went into that relationship by my own choosing so I don't understand why it's so difficult to imagine that I was not taken advantage of? What his intentions were is irrelevant since I wasn't some innocent little thing who had no idea as to what is going on around her. I knew what I was doing. And I can take other people's POV. However, when it becomes a discussion telling me what I am like, what I am feeling, how I am thinking, how my parents are thinking and feeling it quite literally crosses the line and this is where I get defensive. Top 5%, but couldn't manage to get herself on birth control. Baffling. Ah, the ol' faithful one. Except totally false since I had been on BC for quite a long time, never missing a pill. I got caught while switching from the pill to the patch. And if you read the context of me mentioning my academics, it was not about bragging. 4
NoIDidn't Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Noelle Did you say you went to the MM's house and had sex there as part of this affair? I just want to make sure I have the right poster. If you did, would you be okay with a future husband of yours bringing another woman into the home you share for sex? Would you think that was harmless fun? I know this is not really the topic of the thread (at least not directly), I'm just trying to see how you would feel if the shoe were on the other foot.
xxoo Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Except totally false since I had been on BC for quite a long time, never missing a pill. I got caught while switching from the pill to the patch. No condom? 3
Author noelle303 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Posted March 2, 2012 Noelle Did you say you went to the MM's house and had sex there as part of this affair? I just want to make sure I have the right poster. If you did, would you be okay with a future husband of yours bringing another woman into the home you share for sex? Would you think that was harmless fun? I know this is not really the topic of the thread (at least not directly), I'm just trying to see how you would feel if the shoe were on the other foot. I was there once. And no, I would not be ok with my husband dragging an OW into our home or would I be ok with my husband having an OW. It may very well be harmless fun to them but it's be a deal breaker for me. I would think an educated woman such as yourself would have known the transition risks involved and/or your OBGYN would have mentioned them, since the doc knew you would be transitioning. Or perhaps you were just one of those young and in love OW who wanted to have a "piece" of their OM in the form of a child. It wouldn't be the first time. I'm amazed at how many young girls think having a child will somehow make a man love them. Maybe being in the BS's house affected you more than you thought. Maybe you wanted her life? I'm really surprised that someone who apparently went to such great lengths to avoid a pregnancy wouldn't terminate one. I won't go further into detail about my private life but lets just say I thought I was well protected. LOL at the bolded. I mean, I seriously can't say anything but laugh at it. Anyway, I'm glad you posted what you did. Shows the shameless prejudice and shameless affinity of telling people what they are like based on your own ideas. 2
Author noelle303 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Posted March 2, 2012 Noelle.....I'm sorry you feel on the defensive but I think most posters do have good intent. I know you didn't like it but quite storm wrote you a very thought provoking post and it wasn't unkind. Take care of yourself and the babe. Thank you. However, to me her post was incredibly offensive and patronizing and suggested things about me and my life that were simply false, basing them on her ''idea'' of my life. Implying that this is me deluding myself that the path my life has taken is good, was so far out of line I can't even wrap my head around it. I'm currently enjoying the path my life has taken. Had I not wanted this, I wouldn't have had my daughter. I am pro-choice, this decision wasn't already made. I thought about it thoroughly and decided with my own head, I will never regret it or wish I had anybody elses life but my own. 3
NoIDidn't Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 I was there once. And no, I would not be ok with my husband dragging an OW into our home or would I be ok with my husband having an OW. It may very well be harmless fun to them but it's be a deal breaker for me. Thanks, Noelle. I'm surprised that you say "dragging an OW" into your home. It doesn't sound like you enjoyed that part very much. I speculate that's why you only did it once? (Rhetorical) For the record, I don't think you are "sad" as you state in the title. I do think we all have issues. And you'll be surprised in a few years when you look back and evaluate your younger self one day. Its a part of life. We all do it. I wish you and your daughter the best. I can't believe a year has passed already! 1
MissBee Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 No condom? I will never get that....if you are not in a monogamous relationship and have gotten tested together, why would you go condomless with someone? Especially in this day and age... 5
xxoo Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 I will never get that....if you are not in a monogamous relationship and have gotten tested together, why would you go condomless with someone? Especially in this day and age... It is definitely risky. I wonder if it is common for 19 year old women take that risk (no condoms in non-monogamous, non-tested relationships). Noelle, I hope you have changed your thinking on this decision. Pregnancy is hardly the worst thing that can happen. And now I'm wondering about the man's wife, and if he is having unprotected sex with her....and how many other women What kind of man has so little regard for the health of his childrens' mother
frozensprouts Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 I was there once. And no, I would not be ok with my husband dragging an OW into our home or would I be ok with my husband having an OW. It may very well be harmless fun to them but it's be a deal breaker for me so you helped someone cheat on his wife? you helped a guy do something to his wife that you wouldn't want to have done to yourself? do you really believe that now or have you grown since then? 1
woinlove Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 I was there once. And no, I would not be ok with my husband dragging an OW into our home or would I be ok with my husband having an OW. It may very well be harmless fun to them but it's be a deal breaker for me. I was surprised you described it as "dragging an OW into our home" too since previously you had said you found that part fun. Maybe this is a bit of change in your feelings about sneaking around in the home of a MM and his unsuspecting BW? 1
Ms. Red Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 The reaction to the first statement as written so eloquently by Ms. Red is "you only say that to feel like you are better than me" - Why do OP think everyone thinks so negatively of them in all things EVEN to the statement that has NOTHING to do with them (about the WS issues)? Good question for an actual OP and someone who is doing that. I was not talking about myself. I'm really confused how you thought that I was.
Lostinlife4now Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 Noelle... The thing I am most happy about is you kept your baby!!! Any child...is a gift! BELIEVE ME..I KNOW!!!!!! 3
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