The ''sad'' other woman

[xxoo]

Here's what I don't get.

 

Noelle obviously doesn't feel that she is sad, damaged, or broken. So why work so hard to convince anonymous people who have NADA to do with her life otherwise?

 

I read this line 5 times, trying to figure out what disorder NADA is

[bentnotbroken]

I read this line 5 times, trying to figure out what disorder NADA is

 

 

Got to clean my screen :lmao::lmao:!

[herenow]

I read this line 5 times, trying to figure out what disorder NADA is

 

I have NADA (to do with the situation). I's a disorder I do not plan to treat. But, I'm happy to talk about it with others who suffer from non-NADA.

[herenow]

EDITED POST (Couldn't edit the one above this)

 

It depends on who you ask? Every answer will be different depending on the individual. Ordinary women have A's as well, some admit them, others don't.

 

 

_______

You misinterpreted the question skywriter. Ordinary meaning ALL women. You have two "ordinary" women - one of them does not cheat, the other one does.

 

So WHY does the other one cheat?

 

.

 

Right. We are having this discussion about OW not being "sad, damaged, broken" etc. If they are none of those things, then what is it about an OW that they allow themselves to get involved with MM? While some women would not think of such a thing.

[Anna-Belle]

Right. We are having this discussion about OW not being "sad, damaged, broken" etc. If they are none of those things, then what is it about an OW that they allow themselves to get involved with MM? While some women would not think of such a thing.

 

Different set of morals? Different view on marriage?

[herenow]

Different set of morals? Different view on marriage?

 

OK, I'll go for that. But, the effects of an affair would still be the same. In most cases, there is not a happy ending. So, my point is, why would a person with a healthy sense of self subject herself to probable pain?

 

Unless, of course she is like some we have seen on LS who really have no interest in the MM and just want to have some fun. And, in that case would not be hurt or care much if anyone else gets hurt. IMO, I would say the person who engages in affairs for sport is a bit damaged if not very damaged. But, that is just my opinion.

[donnamaybe]

Unless, of course she is like some we have seen on LS who really have no interest in the MM and just want to have some fun. And, in that case would not be hurt or care much if anyone else gets hurt. IMO, I would say the person who engages in affairs for sport is a bit damaged if not very damaged. But, that is just my opinion.

Narcissist? Sociopath?

[Anna-Belle]

Opening yourself up to love always means risking pain.

[MissBee]

So what is it that makes a so called "ordinary" woman run for the hills when approached by ANY MM, and an "other woman" move forward with an affair?

 

This is a good question.

 

What is the difference between someone who finds attention from a MM flattering and one who finds it pretty distasteful and turns it down?

 

According to some, the only people who would find it distasteful are those who are "reformed OW" (I always have to laugh at this term ). But most other normal women would somehow not see this as a problem, save for the dreaded reformed OW who wants to feel superior or something else. How true is this?

 

Anyway, from my mindset then and now, back then I sought more validation and thought someone committed elsewhere wanting me, surely meant I was special and so awesome and it was ego stroking. Now, I do not get validation from a liar and sleaze trying to talk to me. My standards are MUCH higher and I seek validation less from men, so the kinds of things I find flattering are a lot different. Some MM man trying to start up an A with me does not read as "How cute, I must be so alluring" but instead "Um ew...sleaze...leave me alone!"

 

It reminds me of several topics, one in which one poster was saying some guy tried to get her number while his gf was there and what to make of it and how it made her feel hot because he was young.....I noticed you had 2 sets of responses and by 2 types of posters it appeared. Those who were allegedly happy OW were congratulating her and telling her she should be so flattered and she is so hot because this guy was secretly getting her number behind his gf's back then those who were like, okay? Is this supposed to be cute? He is a sleaze, why would that appeal to you? The other discussions I can recall was one in which one "unapologetic OW" went on and on about how much greater MM were than single guys and so on and tried to insult me by saying none of her MM would want me lmaoooooo....the horror It was through such discussions that I realized there are two different values operating, 2 different ideas of what is flattering and one is arguable more problematic than the other. With many OW actually believing that essentially a sleaze's attention is somehow valuable while other people do not think it is valuable at all, as they look at where it is coming from and the TOTAL package.

 

It supports the idea of their being some issue there....whether it is validation, needing to "win" so you like the idea of a MM, commitment phobia, emotional unavailability the list goes on...but whatever it is, it hardly reads as a normal response and from then and now, I KNOW my response back then was abnormal.

[herenow]

Opening yourself up to love always means risking pain.

 

Yes, but getting involved with a MM almost insures pain.

[Spark1111]

You're doing great Noelle. Glad to hear that's things are working out for you and your daughter.

 

You are not broken or sad. That's thrown around on here as an excuse for ROW/ROM to explain why they did what they did when they look back on it with remorse and regret (usually after being dumped). They could never just say that they had a clear head and mind and wanted to do what they did. Look how much crap is getting thrown at you for admitting to such.

 

And for the spouses of cheaters that say the AP is broken and sad is something they must tell themselves to get through the pain they're in. I mean who wants to admit that their spouse cheated on them with someone who is a healthy and strong person? They have to believe the AP was broken and damaged so as to uplift themselves and feel superior to the AP.

 

Wishing you and your daughter all the best in the future.

 

You really believe this?

 

She's young, just had a baby, mom and dad are helping her out, and now has the rest of her life to forge a future, for the "fun" she had with a MM who wanted to eviscerate her belly and abort her baby with a knife.

 

Hey, if she's happy with her life and her choices, I am happy for her.

 

There is a lot of remorse and regret on this board, and on the Infidelity one too.

 

You think it is all because the OW/OM got dumped??????

 

Not because people got hurt?

 

You think BSs view their spouse as broken so they can feel superior to the AP?????

 

This seems so shallow and one dimensional for you Ms. Red. I have found you articulate, at times angry.

 

But this is the best you got? After all this time, you still feel it is an US against THEM scenario?

 

Really?

[donnamaybe]

But this is the best you got? After all this time, you still feel it is an US against THEM scenario?

 

Really?

I think I have an idea from whence this notion generates.

[Spark1111]

This is a good question.

 

What is the difference between someone who finds attention from a MM flattering and one who finds it pretty distasteful and turns it down?

 

According to some, the only people who would find it distasteful are those who are "reformed OW" (I always have to laugh at this term ). But most other normal women would somehow not see this as a problem, save for the dreaded reformed OW who wants to feel superior or something else. How true is this?

 

Anyway, from my mindset then and now, back then I sought more validation and thought someone committed elsewhere wanting me, surely meant I was special and so awesome and it was ego stroking. Now, I do not get validation from a liar and sleaze trying to talk to me. My standards are MUCH higher and I seek validation less from men, so the kinds of things I find flattering are a lot different. Some MM man trying to start up an A with me does not read as "How cute, I must be so alluring" but instead "Um ew...sleaze...leave me alone!"

 

It reminds me of several topics, one in which one poster was saying some guy tried to get her number while his gf was there and what to make of it and how it made her feel hot because he was young.....I noticed you had 2 sets of responses and by 2 types of posters it appeared. Those who were allegedly happy OW were congratulating her and telling her she should be so flattered and she is so hot because this guy was secretly getting her number behind his gf's back then those who were like, okay? Is this supposed to be cute? He is a sleaze, why would that appeal to you? The other discussions I can recall was one in which one "unapologetic OW" went on and on about how much greater MM were than single guys and so on and tried to insult me by saying none of her MM would want me lmaoooooo....the horror It was through such discussions that I realized there are two different values operating, 2 different ideas of what is flattering and one is arguable more problematic than the other. With many OW actually believing that essentially a sleaze's attention is somehow valuable while other people do not think it is valuable at all, as they look at where it is coming from and the TOTAL package.

 

It supports the idea of their being some issue there....whether it is validation, needing to "win" so you like the idea of a MM, commitment phobia, emotional unavailability the list goes on...but whatever it is, it hardly reads as a normal response and from then and now, I KNOW my response back then was abnormal.

 

About the bolded, I agree!

 

Maybe the polarity is NOT between OW or BS.

 

Maybe it is between women.

 

I have many single, divorced, widowed friends on dating sites trying to find everything between companionship and "the one."

 

When asked what color their thong is, one group moans "Oh yuck" and hits delete while the other group responds, "tehehe, blue today."

 

Needless to say, one group rarely dates and the other group dates often, but I have seen only one long term, committed relationship result for the members of the "tehehee" group.

[MissBee]

About the bolded, I agree!

 

Maybe the polarity is NOT between OW or BS.

 

Maybe it is between women.

 

I have many single, divorced, widowed friends on dating sites trying to find everything between companionship and "the one."

 

When asked what color their thong is, one group moans "Oh yuck" and hits delete while the other group responds, "tehehe, blue today."

 

Needless to say, one group rarely dates and the other group dates often, but I have seen only one long term, committed relationship result for the members of the "tehehee" group.

 

LOL @ teehee group....

 

I think you are right.

 

Reminds me of a scenario in which my friends and I went to a concert and afterwards were getting autographs and then as we were leaving, some of the artist's security personnel decide to invite us back to the hotel to "hang out" It was funny, half of us were like yeah right...we know what that means. YOU guys, the security that is, not even the famous guy, are trying to lure in women you think are groupies who will be so ready to be in the limelight that we will do whatever it takes, sexually, even sleeping with you all in the HOPES that it gets us closer to "thee guy". We promptly turned it down and rolled our eyes as we walked away, like wtf, are they serious? Who do they think we are?? 2 members of the group however didn't see the big deal and got into their car and drove over to the hotel! Needless to say, exactly what the rest of us thought would happen, happened....luckily they wised up while "waiting" to meet "the guy" and realized what was really going on, however, they did smoke with them! They came back laughing and thinking it was all great fun (even while admitting that they knew what they really expected).....I guess the rest of us were "uptight" for not wanting to participate in that and not finding it flattering or like some big opportunity, but insulting rather!

[donnamaybe]

Yeah, I don't get the idea that one should be flattered by stuff like that. I mean, seriously - how hard is it REALLY for a gal - ANY gal - to get laid.

 

And is that your yardstick for measuring your worth? How many men want to screw you? Big deal.

[MissBee]

Re: the teee heee thing that Spark and Miss Bee brought up. That made me realize that I've made progress on my boundaries. Yay for me uh!

 

Anyway in my limited experience dating since I've became the improved me, I admit I'm cynical, suspicious and easily offended but yet............I sure have defined what is acceptable and what is not much more clearly now. However I do admit, I'm having difficulty finding the right balance of being vigilant but not hypercritical. Ugggg.

 

I feel you. It's normal and will balance out though. It is much safer to be too vigilant than be a free for all. It's easier to gradually release your reigns, versus galloping out the gate full speed ahead and trying to brake. By then, you can't even see the danger or your momentum is such that you will plow on through it anyway and hurt yourself.

[wettry]

it is the normal phenomenon,

[alexandria35]

Right. We are having this discussion about OW not being "sad, damaged, broken" etc. If they are none of those things, then what is it about an OW that they allow themselves to get involved with MM? While some women would not think of such a thing.

 

I think maybe it really does come down to what values and morals were instilled in us as young people.

 

Quick story from my long ago past. When I was 15 yrs old I used to babysit for a young couple in my neighborhood. Wife was about 25 and husband was about 30. They were both gorgeous and I had a wicked crush on the husband. At that age I normally crushed on guys almost old enough to be my father because I was up to my eyeballs with daddy issues but had no idea that was what was driving me at the time. When I was 16 I lost my virginity to a 37 yr old man, but that's another topic and another story. Anyways I had a crush on this husband that I used to babysit for. His older brother owned the pool hall that a lot of the local teens hung out at and I would often see him there. Occasionally he would come over to me and offer me a ride home. I always accepted because a "ride home" was actually code for 'do you want to go smoke a joint' which I was also always up for. Plus did I mention I had a crush on him? lol. So one day I get into his car with him and we go off to park somewhere and get high. His wife was very straight laced and he didn't smoke at home. I don't think she even knew that he used weed. So on this day after we smoked we got flirty with each other and then we made out. I didn't let him touch me below the waist because I had never gone that far with a guy yet. Oh it was very exciting and thrilling and I was quite pleased with the whole experience.

 

When we were done we went back to his place and he asked me if wanted to come in and get a little weed to take home with me. As we stepped out of the car he started straightening himself up and asked me if he looked like he had been up to anything bad, meaning could a person tell by looking at him that he had just been getting all hot and heavy with me. His wife was in the house and he didn't want her to suspect anything. As I looked at him I was suddenly overcome with guilt and shame. He wasn't the first older man I had fooled around with but he was the only married one and to make it worse I knew his wife and I liked her. Now he was standing there looking ashamed of himself and seeing his shame only increased my shame. I continued to babysit for them but we never touched each other again. I felt guilty for a long time afterwards, even had some nightmares abouta his wife finding out and telling my mother. It was horrible. I hated feeling so bad about myself and I vowed to myself and to God that I would never do anything like that again. I was only 15 yrs old but I never forgot it and I never have done anything inappropriate with a married man since.

 

So why was I so very ashamed and horrified by that one occurence? There have been many OW here who clearly feel no shame in their behaviour. Several have no problem not only having sex with a married man but also being friendly or even friends with the BW. How in the world they do that and feel okay about it I just don't know. I simpy could not imagine myself doing that and not feeling awful. It makes me think that somehow peoples brains just get wired up differently at a young age.

[MissBee]

I think maybe it really does come down to what values and morals were instilled in us as young people.

 

Quick story from my long ago past. When I was 15 yrs old I used to babysit for a young couple in my neighborhood. Wife was about 25 and husband was about 30. They were both gorgeous and I had a wicked crush on the husband. At that age I normally crushed on guys almost old enough to be my father because I was up to my eyeballs with daddy issues but had no idea that was what was driving me at the time. When I was 16 I lost my virginity to a 37 yr old man, but that's another topic and another story. Anyways I had a crush on this husband that I used to babysit for. His older brother owned the pool hall that a lot of the local teens hung out at and I would often see him there. Occasionally he would come over to me and offer me a ride home. I always accepted because a "ride home" was actually code for 'do you want to go smoke a joint' which I was also always up for. Plus did I mention I had a crush on him? lol. So one day I get into his car with him and we go off to park somewhere and get high. His wife was very straight laced and he didn't smoke at home. I don't think she even knew that he used weed. So on this day after we smoked we got flirty with each other and then we made out. I didn't let him touch me below the waist because I had never gone that far with a guy yet. Oh it was very exciting and thrilling and I was quite pleased with the whole experience.

 

When we were done we went back to his place and he asked me if wanted to come in and get a little weed to take home with me. As we stepped out of the car he started straightening himself up and asked me if he looked like he had been up to anything bad, meaning could a person tell by looking at him that he had just been getting all hot and heavy with me. His wife was in the house and he didn't want her to suspect anything. As I looked at him I was suddenly overcome with guilt and shame. He wasn't the first older man I had fooled around with but he was the only married one and to make it worse I knew his wife and I liked her. Now he was standing there looking ashamed of himself and seeing his shame only increased my shame. I continued to babysit for them but we never touched each other again. I felt guilty for a long time afterwards, even had some nightmares abouta his wife finding out and telling my mother. It was horrible. I hated feeling so bad about myself and I vowed to myself and to God that I would never do anything like that again. I was only 15 yrs old but I never forgot it and I never have done anything inappropriate with a married man since.

 

So why was I so very ashamed and horrified by that one occurence? There have been many OW here who clearly feel no shame in their behaviour. Several have no problem not only having sex with a married man but also being friendly or even friends with the BW. How in the world they do that and feel okay about it I just don't know. I simpy could not imagine myself doing that and not feeling awful. It makes me think that somehow peoples brains just get wired up differently at a young age.

 

Thanks for sharing alexandria! I can actually relate to so much of the older guy stuff, steeped in daddy issues smh. That was me. At the time, I didn't think that was a problem either, I just thought I was "mature" and that it was a normal preference. Now, I realize how problematic it was and also how problematic the men who pursued me were! At the time it was flattering and I felt so self assured that I could get older men, but now...I see how messed up it is and will be sure to be frank with my daughter if I have one, about these things.

 

Anyway, yes, perhaps some are indeed wired differently.

[SoMovinOn]

In any case, I'd rather believe the research of people who study these things independently of their own experiences versus the other option, that is, random OW on LS who claim to be happy but are oh so contradictory and whose theories about themselves are not supported much by anyone but them and other people who are like them.

 

Not just random OW ... but each "group" on LS seems to like to banter around their personal opinions, unsupported by any reality, and support them with "Everyone agrees with me" ... when everyone clearly doesn't agree with them.

 

You have people here claiming to be happy and in love, who somehow find an awful lot of time to spend spewing hate, coming here claiming to be offering helpful advice. I don't know everything about love, but I know when you're in love, you really don't feel like spending a bunch of time hating random people.

 

However... the flip side of that is LS is not a research site. It is not a place where one should come to seek professional advice or help. It's a place where people share their experiences and opinions. No matter what the statistics may be, personal experience may vary.

[skywriter]

what a cruel post. i have never seen owl be cruel or rude to any poster. i see him asking questions in regards to the poster getting themselves together or planning how to go forward. i do not understand why skywriter chose to be so mean

 

 

No mean intent, just made a point. If I offended then I apologize. If you got the point, great.

[skywriter]

Not just random OW ... but each "group" on LS seems to like to banter around their personal opinions, unsupported by any reality, and support them with "Everyone agrees with me" ... when everyone clearly doesn't agree with them.

 

You have people here claiming to be happy and in love, who somehow find an awful lot of time to spend spewing hate, coming here claiming to be offering helpful advice. I don't know everything about love, but I know when you're in love, you really don't feel like spending a bunch of time hating random people.

 

However... the flip side of that is LS is not a research site. It is not a place where one should come to seek professional advice or help. It's a place where people share their experiences and opinions. No matter what the statistics may be, personal experience may vary.

 

 

Thank you, well said.

[noelle303]

It is very hard for some people (especially young ones) to admit their issues.

 

When we end up in circumstances that we never planned for, our brains rationalize, so that we become OK with the situation. This is not always a bad thing, and can even be very helpful in the short term.

 

Noelle is a very young woman, raising a child alone, with no help from the father.

 

I had my oldest child even younger than Noelle, but I was married. Being young with a baby was hard, and I had a husband for care and support.

 

I think Noelle is using rationalization, so that she is okay with the path her life has taken.

 

She tells us her parents did not feel that she was taken advantage of (either her parents are VERY naive, or Noelle is rationalizing).

 

She tells us she does not want financial support from MM. (MM owes this to the child, regardless of Noelle's opinion. Why would she deny her child? I think she knows her child is deserving, but does not want to face the situation, paperwork, MM's wrath, etc. She is rationalizing, saying she doesn't want the support, when she really doesn't want the hassle).

 

She says she never wanted MM for a boyfriend or a husband. Really? If MM had reacted to the pregnancy with divorce papers and an engagement ring, how would she have reacted? I think Noelle is rationalizing her feelings away, because the reaction of MM to the news of her pregnancy, was so very painful.

 

She says relationships that are not affairs, often result in separation, divorce or deadbeat dads. Which is true. But telling herself this is a rationalization, so that her situation doesn't seem THAT BAD. She tells herself "This may have happened anyway! Its not my fault!".

 

She says her child will be fine without her father. And I do understand that the child has lots of people to love and care for her. But the love I see my husband show my children is irreplacable. Men & women often have different parenting styles. In our marriage, I am the nurturer. He is the teacher. I am great at kissing boo-boos, hugs, talking, caring. He is great at teaching shoe tying, science projects, diving and fighting moves. We can both teach my daughter about men and how to spot the bad ones, but he knows, because he's a man. My daughter is loved by her father 100% and she knows it. This foundation will help her when she is being pursued by men. There are millions of children raised by single parents that turn out fine, but it is not the optimal situation. To assume that just by loving your child, that they will have no ill affects from the absense of a father, is rationalizing.

 

There are many rationalizations going on here, and although I wouldn't use the words sad or broken, there are issues at play here.

 

If Noelle can't see that yet, that's okay. RATIONALIZATION IS OFTEN OUR BRAINS WAY OF HIDING TRUTHS THAT WE AREN'T READY FOR YET. It's self protection. And maybe Noelle needs that right now, to be able to get through each day and care for her child.

 

 

Absolutely nothing you said here is true. Exactly these sorts of things brought me to post this thread in the first place.

 

1) I am ok with the path my life has taken. More than ok. I am ok with it now and I will be ok with it in 20 years. You have NO right telling me that my life is not ok. You've listed simple, generic facts - single mom, alone, no help and you automatically assume that my life cannot possibly be good. You have no idea how I live, how I feel or what I do.

If I wasn't willing and ready to take this path I would not have my child.

 

2) My parents don't think I was taken advantage of because I was NOT taken advantage of. They know it and I know it and for you to assume that you know how my parents feel or what they think is quite ballsy.

 

3) Oh trust me...I'm not some weak little creature who would be afraid of filing for child support. In any other circumstance where a baby daddy would try to bail, I would hunt him down and suck every penny of child support my child deserves. But as was mentioned by several posters, xMM threatened to cut me open and kill the baby. He was harassing me daily with demands and questions. I decided that it is best to cut him out of our lives for both mine and my daughter's peace of mind, at least for now.

You don't get to judge my parenting decisions without even knowing what the circumstances were.

I don't want the hassle? There is NO hassle for me when it comes to my child. If I felt that getting child support would be best for her, I would do it without a second thought. There is no hassle, pride or fear when it comes to her and there is no one I'm worried about protecting more.

 

3) Did his reaction to my pregnancy sting? Damn right it did. But would I want an engagement ring? Hell no! In my first thread, before even telling MM I said that I was done with him no matter what my decision ends up being.

 

4) Never said that relationships end up bad or that MOST dads end up deadbeat dads. I just said it happens and it happens to people regardless of affairs.

 

5) I NEVER said that I like that my daughter doesn't have a father. Or that everything is peachy and cool when it comes to that. I have a wonderful dad, he's great and supporting and it saddens me a great deal that my daughter won't have that.

But my child IS going to have a happy, loving childhood and there is absolutely no way you can claim otherwise.

 

You are very blessed to have a partner and father for your kids. I may not have those two but I am a very blessed person as well.

[donnamaybe]

Not just random OW ... but each "group" on LS seems to like to banter around their personal opinions, unsupported by any reality, and support them with "Everyone agrees with me" ... when everyone clearly doesn't agree with them.

 

You have people here claiming to be happy and in love, who somehow find an awful lot of time to spend spewing hate, coming here claiming to be offering helpful advice. I don't know everything about love, but I know when you're in love, you really don't feel like spending a bunch of time hating random people.

 

However... the flip side of that is LS is not a research site. It is not a place where one should come to seek professional advice or help. It's a place where people share their experiences and opinions. No matter what the statistics may be, personal experience may vary.

 

So you aren't in love then?

[noelle303]

What is "sad" and "broken" is that so many people would take so much time to armchair-debate such a silly topic.

 

Noelle,

If you want to see sad and broken, stop being so self centered and give of yourself. Go volunteer at a women's shelter, or go serve at a soup kitchen.

 

It's so ridiculous that people would sit here for pages and pages, throwing barbs at one another when there are much worse problems in the world than whether an immature 22-year-old OW is broken or sad. What changes at the end of the day? Seems such a waste of time. I for one won't be wasting any more if it.

 

Well, I certainly appreciate you finding the time, replying to my thread in your busy schedule volunteering at women's shelters.