The ''sad'' other woman

[Ms. Red]

You're doing great Noelle. Glad to hear that's things are working out for you and your daughter.

 

You are not broken or sad. That's thrown around on here as an excuse for ROW/ROM to explain why they did what they did when they look back on it with remorse and regret (usually after being dumped). They could never just say that they had a clear head and mind and wanted to do what they did. Look how much crap is getting thrown at you for admitting to such.

 

And for the spouses of cheaters that say the AP is broken and sad is something they must tell themselves to get through the pain they're in. I mean who wants to admit that their spouse cheated on them with someone who is a healthy and strong person? They have to believe the AP was broken and damaged so as to uplift themselves and feel superior to the AP.

 

Wishing you and your daughter all the best in the future.

[donnamaybe]

Yeah. Absolutely no one who gets involved in an A has issues.

[bentnotbroken]

You're doing great Noelle. Glad to hear that's things are working out for you and your daughter.

 

You are not broken or sad. That's thrown around on here as an excuse for ROW/ROM to explain why they did what they did when they look back on it with remorse and regret (usually after being dumped). They could never just say that they had a clear head and mind and wanted to do what they did. Look how much crap is getting thrown at you for admitting to such.

 

And for the spouses of cheaters that say the AP is broken and sad is something they must tell themselves to get through the pain they're in. I mean who wants to admit that their spouse cheated on them with someone who is a healthy and strong person? They have to believe the AP was broken and damaged so as to uplift themselves and feel superior to the AP.

 

Wishing you and your daughter all the best in the future.

 

 

No I don't need to feel superior to the OW...why? I did start an affair with her husband (or anyone else's). There is no comparison in our actions. My belief that she is off the beam is based on her track record. Mr. Messy was not the first, nor do I suspect he will be the last. Her pattern of relationships speaks for itself. Her actions within our community also speaks for themselves. It was not necessary for me to tell myself anything other than she and Mr. Messy are two truly twisted people and if you are in their path of destruction.....MOVE!

 

It is a matter of believing that participation in destructive actions leaves one a slice or two short of the full loaf. Does that mean most of us haven't been short of that full at some point...naw it means we are human. But just like any action that has deception, lying, sneaking around involved...I believe means something is missing that would allow those actions to flourish within whatever the context.

[woinlove]

You're doing great Noelle. Glad to hear that's things are working out for you and your daughter.

 

You are not broken or sad. That's thrown around on here as an excuse for ROW/ROM to explain why they did what they did when they look back on it with remorse and regret (usually after being dumped). They could never just say that they had a clear head and mind and wanted to do what they did. Look how much crap is getting thrown at you for admitting to such.

 

And for the spouses of cheaters that say the AP is broken and sad is something they must tell themselves to get through the pain they're in. I mean who wants to admit that their spouse cheated on them with someone who is a healthy and strong person? They have to believe the AP was broken and damaged so as to uplift themselves and feel superior to the AP.

 

Wishing you and your daughter all the best in the future.

 

A lot of wrong assumptions about others in your post, perhaps your own rationalizations? I was not dumped as an OW. I ended things myself. I tried to explain to noelle the peace and joy that can come from choosing respect and kindness for oneself and others. You can disagree, but your generalizations of others (whatever labels you wish to attach to then that you think are derogatory) are not based on reality.

 

Let's face reality. Noelle is striving to make the best of the situation now, and we all wish her luck with that. But unless she can see that her choices were harmful to herself and others, it is difficult to feel confident that she will not make bad choices again in the future. Had she chosen differently, she could have raised her first child, together with the father, in a loving environment with both parents. Having made that choice myself, I know what incredible joy it is to see not only the love between myself and our children, but between my H, their father, and our children. Like many daughters, our daughter has a very special bond with her father, looks up to him as a role model for men, for the kind of respect and caring she deserves.

 

I don't say this to be mean - the opposite in fact -- to try to get through to someone who seems like they should be able to live a compassionate life. As long as noelle feels she has **no** regrets in her choices, it was fun and not that atrocious a way to treat others or herself, how can anyone be confident she will steer her and her daughter's lives toward more peace and happiness in authentic and loving connections with others? I think noelle is still in denial and rationalization and months and years are slipping away where one can choose greater kindness and compassion for everyone.

[PhoenixRise]

You're doing great Noelle. Glad to hear that's things are working out for you and your daughter.

 

You are not broken or sad. That's thrown around on here as an excuse for ROW/ROM to explain why they did what they did when they look back on it with remorse and regret (usually after being dumped). They could never just say that they had a clear head and mind and wanted to do what they did. Look how much crap is getting thrown at you for admitting to such.

 

And for the spouses of cheaters that say the AP is broken and sad is something they must tell themselves to get through the pain they're in. I mean who wants to admit that their spouse cheated on them with someone who is a healthy and strong person? They have to believe the AP was broken and damaged so as to uplift themselves and feel superior to the AP.

 

Wishing you and your daughter all the best in the future.

 

 

 

It is interesting to me that OW who (in general) will psycho-analyze the MM and his spouse to within an inch of their life will turn around and cast the SELF reflection of a FOW/FOM in a negative light.

[donnamaybe]

I have seen AP speak with loads of bravado on this forum about how they LOVE being the OW and don't want their MM to leave their M, then on another forum they cry and moan about their MM still being married. If THAT ain't issues I don't know what is.

 

Oh, and then we have all read a blog or two by OW that positively SCREAMS issues...

[xxoo]

I can understand the "no regrets". Your path brought you your child, and how can you regret that?

 

But would you want to repeat that path?

 

Do you think you'd be able to avoid it in the future?

 

That's the question. If you can't see the clear signs that a guy is a POS from the beginning, you'll fall for another, and another. And now you have a child along for the ride.

 

Are you saying that you knew he was a POS, but didn't care, because you only wanted excitement? If that's the case, and NOW you would care (because you have a child to protect), I'd be less concerned.

[donnamaybe]

I can understand the "no regrets". Your path brought you your child, and how can you regret that?

 

But would you want to repeat that path?

 

Do you think you'd be able to avoid it in the future?

 

That's the question. If you can't see the clear signs that a guy is a POS from the beginning, you'll fall for another, and another. And now you have a child along for the ride.

 

Are you saying that you knew he was a POS, but didn't care, because you only wanted excitement? If that's the case, and NOW you would care (because you have a child to protect), I'd be less concerned.

Since the statement was made that he was wonderful and charming (basically) at the beginning and became "a different man" upon discovery of the pregnancy, I would say she hadn't a CLUE what kind of person he was and that the fact of him being a cheater was one clue that was missed or ignored.

[MissBee]

You're doing great Noelle. Glad to hear that's things are working out for you and your daughter.

 

You are not broken or sad. That's thrown around on here as an excuse for ROW/ROM to explain why they did what they did when they look back on it with remorse and regret (usually after being dumped). They could never just say that they had a clear head and mind and wanted to do what they did. Look how much crap is getting thrown at you for admitting to such.

 

And for the spouses of cheaters that say the AP is broken and sad is something they must tell themselves to get through the pain they're in. I mean who wants to admit that their spouse cheated on them with someone who is a healthy and strong person? They have to believe the AP was broken and damaged so as to uplift themselves and feel superior to the AP.

 

Wishing you and your daughter all the best in the future.

 

 

......

 

Well then Ms. Red...I suggest you take up your theory with professionals who espouse the same ideas, who have never been OW or BS's, but who simply spend their lives studying human behavior and psychology and have had the chance to observe thousands of people's experiences to then conclude how certain circumstances contribute to certain behavior.

 

It is interesting to me that people make these notions seem like a contrived LS conspiracy, when in reality, much of the experiences discussed on LS is supported by people within the field of the social sciences that could care less about people's personal beliefs or wanting to feel a particular way....but are instead noticing trends in human behavior in general.

 

Yes...LS members are the ones who sit around doing this false research, tricking people into believing these things and espousing these theories. We all train the psychologists of the world to also buy into our crazy, bullcrap of trying to be superior. How powerful we LS members must be.

 

It would be one thing if nowhere in life these things were supported save for on LS...but in reality, I can list tens of books, articles, theories within academic fields that are based upon scholarly research that support these notions...whereas who can support some of what OW here claim? Besides them and other OW in their same position?

 

In any case, I'd rather believe the research of people who study these things independently of their own experiences versus the other option, that is, random OW on LS who claim to be happy but are oh so contradictory and whose theories about themselves are not supported much by anyone but them and other people who are like them.

[Lostinlife4now]

he was always a jerk noelle. Even at the beginning when you thought he was so fun and charming, he was a jerk who was lying and cheating on the mother of his 2 little boys. Don't you see that? He wasn't ever 2 different people. When he was out enjoying his little affair with you and you thought he was wonderful, his wife was probably at home, dealing with her 2 little boys all by herself and wondering how she ended up with such a jerk for a husband. If you can't understand that then it really speaks to how young and immature you still are. You are still self centered in that childish way where you can't see outside of your immediate little world.

 

By reading some of the posts here i get the impression that you parents help you a lot and that you kind of respect their opinions. So tell me noelle, do you say the same things to them that you say here? Do you tell them that your affair was great and worth it because "hey it was really fun!". Do they share your view that being the other woman is okay because your not the one who was cheating and married? Do they honestly believe that if noelle is presented with the opportunity to have some fun, she should take it, no matter who gets hurt? Do they agree with you that mm was really great guy right up until the moment he found out you were pregnant?

 

Of course your parents love you and support you. I suspect that they are viewing this situation as one where their young sweet innocent daughter fell prey to an evil older man who took advantage of her. I also suspect you are more than happy to have them see it that way and that you would never be so glib and flip about sleeping with a married man while speaking to your parents. I hardly think they would be giving you high fives for going out and having "fun" with a married man. At least not if they are the shining examples of decency that you say they are. I'm sure they love you and their grandchild. I'm sure they are very proud of both of you. I don't think they would agree with what you have to say on this board.

 

ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stellar Wench]

What is "sad" and "broken" is that so many people would take so much time to armchair-debate such a silly topic.

 

Noelle,

If you want to see sad and broken, stop being so self centered and give of yourself. Go volunteer at a women's shelter, or go serve at a soup kitchen.

 

It's so ridiculous that people would sit here for pages and pages, throwing barbs at one another when there are much worse problems in the world than whether an immature 22-year-old OW is broken or sad. What changes at the end of the day? Seems such a waste of time. I for one won't be wasting any more if it.

[frozensprouts]

You're doing great Noelle. Glad to hear that's things are working out for you and your daughter.

 

You are not broken or sad. That's thrown around on here as an excuse for ROW/ROM to explain why they did what they did when they look back on it with remorse and regret (usually after being dumped). They could never just say that they had a clear head and mind and wanted to do what they did. Look how much crap is getting thrown at you for admitting to such.

 

And for the spouses of cheaters that say the AP is broken and sad is something they must tell themselves to get through the pain they're in. I mean who wants to admit that their spouse cheated on them with someone who is a healthy and strong person? They have to believe the AP was broken and damaged so as to uplift themselves and feel superior to the AP.

 

Wishing you and your daughter all the best in the future.

 

comment on quoted point...

 

I'd rather think my husband cheated with someone "healthy and strong", as if he cheated with someone who was "sad and broken", I'd really question whether I could be with him or not. What kind of person takes advantage of someone like that?

[alexandria35]

What is "sad" and "broken" is that so many people would take so much time to armchair-debate such a silly topic.

 

Noelle,

If you want to see sad and broken, stop being so self centered and give of yourself. Go volunteer at a women's shelter, or go serve at a soup kitchen.

 

It's so ridiculous that people would sit here for pages and pages, throwing barbs at one another when there are much worse problems in the world than whether an immature 22-year-old OW is broken or sad. What changes at the end of the day? Seems such a waste of time. I for one won't be wasting any more if it.

 

You have posted on this thread three times now.

[herenow]

I have not read most of this thread, but I want to comment on the sad and broken part. My H's affair happened because HE was sad and broken. And to some extent, our marriage was broken.

 

As far as the OW, I can't tell you if she started the affair as a sad and broken woman, but I do know at the end she was definitely sad and broken. Was she happy and healthy before the affair? I couldn't tell you but, IMO, a heathy woman would not enter into self destructive behaviors.

 

Entering into a relationship with a MM carries with it a strong chance of heartache for everyone involved. IMO, a person who voluntarily takes that road should ask themselves why and is it worth it.

[Owl]

You know...this caused me to consider something I'd honestly never stopped to consider before.

 

Was OM "sad and broken" in my situation? I'd never really sat and thought about it.

 

But, now that I have...

 

He (at the time, can't speak to his status now) was a 38 year old single male, 250lbs +, who worked an IT job during the day and used their resources during and after work to support his massive online gaming habit. He was divorced, with two sons he saw every other weekend, living in a studio apartment without pots or pans, and consumed a six pack plus every evening while gaming online.

 

Somehow this doesn't scream "Winner, winner, chicken dinner!" to me. I'm sure he had a great personality, however. :)

[herenow]

I believe that there are sad affairs, but I also believe that the notion of all of them being like that has been party at least, presented by the BS side because it's easier to think that the other woman was this marginalized pathetic creature.

 

It may appear on LS that many BS are focused on the OW/OM. IMO, it appears that way because the OW and BS are the people most represented on this board. From what I see IRL, the BS is primarily focused on their spouse and how to move forward with their own lives.

 

Many BS come here to get a glimpse of how the OW/OM thinks since many BS's don't not know the OW/OM in their case. They want to have some sort of understanding. If, by reading here, a BS gets the idea that many OW's are "pathetic creatures", then I guess that is the way those BS's have interpreted the information.

[skywriter]

You know...this caused me to consider something I'd honestly never stopped to consider before.

 

Was OM "sad and broken" in my situation? I'd never really sat and thought about it.

 

But, now that I have...

 

He (at the time, can't speak to his status now) was a 38 year old single male, 250lbs +, who worked an IT job during the day and used their resources during and after work to support his massive online gaming habit. He was divorced, with two sons he saw every other weekend, living in a studio apartment without pots or pans, and consumed a six pack plus every evening while gaming online.

 

Somehow this doesn't scream "Winner, winner, chicken dinner!" to me. I'm sure he had a great personality, however. :)

 

 

....and your wife chose to become involved with him.

[herenow]

 

Oh, and of course everyone has problems and 'life scars' but I'm talking about the notion that 'other women'' are more broken then your ordinary woman.

 

So what is it that makes a so called "ordinary" woman run for the hills when approached by ANY MM, and an "other woman" move forward with an affair?

[donnamaybe]

You know...this caused me to consider something I'd honestly never stopped to consider before.

 

Was OM "sad and broken" in my situation? I'd never really sat and thought about it.

 

But, now that I have...

 

He (at the time, can't speak to his status now) was a 38 year old single male, 250lbs +, who worked an IT job during the day and used their resources during and after work to support his massive online gaming habit. He was divorced, with two sons he saw every other weekend, living in a studio apartment without pots or pans, and consumed a six pack plus every evening while gaming online.

 

Somehow this doesn't scream "Winner, winner, chicken dinner!" to me. I'm sure he had a great personality, however. :)

 

 

....and your wife chose to become involved with him.

And your point is...?

 

I'm pretty certain you are aware that Owl has discussed quite freely his wife's "issues" regarding why she chose to involve herself with the guy, so why the jab?

[skywriter]

So what is it that makes a so called "ordinary" woman run for the hills when approached by ANY MM, and an "other woman" move forward with an affair?

 

It depends on who you ask? Every answer will be different depending on the individual. Ordinary women have A's as well, some admit them, others don't.

[skywriter]

And your point is...?

 

 

That was my point....

[herenow]

And your point is...?

 

 

That was my point....

 

This is a quote from the OP:

 

Oh, and of course everyone has problems and 'life scars' but I'm talking about the notion that 'other women'' are more broken then your ordinary woman.

 

I was asking her what she feels the difference is between what she considers to be an "ordinary woman" and a BW. My point was a direct question to a previous post on this thread.

[herenow]

delete because I misunderstood a post

[donnamaybe]

So what is it that makes a so called "ordinary" woman run for the hills when approached by ANY MM, and an "other woman" move forward with an affair?

 

It depends on who you ask? Every answer will be different depending on the individual. Ordinary women have A's as well, some admit them, others don't.

And your point is...?

 

 

That was my point....

And so you are reinforcing the notion that to get involved in an A, one must have "issues" because Owl has discussed at length in this forum the issues his W had which led her into an A. Issues that have since been worked through.

 

Thanks!

[Quiet Storm]

It is very hard for some people (especially young ones) to admit their issues.

 

When we end up in circumstances that we never planned for, our brains rationalize, so that we become OK with the situation. This is not always a bad thing, and can even be very helpful in the short term.

 

Noelle is a very young woman, raising a child alone, with no help from the father.

 

I had my oldest child even younger than Noelle, but I was married. Being young with a baby was hard, and I had a husband for care and support.

 

I think Noelle is using rationalization, so that she is okay with the path her life has taken.

 

She tells us her parents did not feel that she was taken advantage of (either her parents are VERY naive, or Noelle is rationalizing).

 

She tells us she does not want financial support from MM. (MM owes this to the child, regardless of Noelle's opinion. Why would she deny her child? I think she knows her child is deserving, but does not want to face the situation, paperwork, MM's wrath, etc. She is rationalizing, saying she doesn't want the support, when she really doesn't want the hassle).

 

She says she never wanted MM for a boyfriend or a husband. Really? If MM had reacted to the pregnancy with divorce papers and an engagement ring, how would she have reacted? I think Noelle is rationalizing her feelings away, because the reaction of MM to the news of her pregnancy, was so very painful.

 

She says relationships that are not affairs, often result in separation, divorce or deadbeat dads. Which is true. But telling herself this is a rationalization, so that her situation doesn't seem THAT BAD. She tells herself "This may have happened anyway! Its not my fault!".

 

She says her child will be fine without her father. And I do understand that the child has lots of people to love and care for her. But the love I see my husband show my children is irreplacable. Men & women often have different parenting styles. In our marriage, I am the nurturer. He is the teacher. I am great at kissing boo-boos, hugs, talking, caring. He is great at teaching shoe tying, science projects, diving and fighting moves. We can both teach my daughter about men and how to spot the bad ones, but he knows, because he's a man. My daughter is loved by her father 100% and she knows it. This foundation will help her when she is being pursued by men. There are millions of children raised by single parents that turn out fine, but it is not the optimal situation. To assume that just by loving your child, that they will have no ill affects from the absense of a father, is rationalizing.

 

There are many rationalizations going on here, and although I wouldn't use the words sad or broken, there are issues at play here.

 

If Noelle can't see that yet, that's okay. RATIONALIZATION IS OFTEN OUR BRAINS WAY OF HIDING TRUTHS THAT WE AREN'T READY FOR YET. It's self protection. And maybe Noelle needs that right now, to be able to get through each day and care for her child.